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BlackRain
06-24-2006, 12:07 PM
The Media’s War Against the War Continues The New York Times and Los Angeles Times expose a classified anti-terrorism program.

By Andrew C. McCarthy

Yet again, the New York Times was presented with a simple choice: help protect American national security or help al Qaeda.

Yet again, it sided with al Qaeda.

Once again, members of the American intelligence community had a simple choice: remain faithful to their oath — the solemn promise the nation requires before entrusting them with the secrets on which our safety depends — or violate that oath and place themselves and their subjective notions of propriety above the law.

Once again, honor was cast aside.

For the second time in seven months, the Times has exposed classified information about a program aimed at protecting the American people against a repeat of the September 11 attacks.

On this occasion, it has company in the effort: The Los Angeles Times runs a similar, sensational story. Together, the newspapers disclose the fact that the United States has covertly developed a capability to monitor the nerve center of the international financial network in order to track the movement of funds between terrorists and their facilitators.

The effort, which the government calls the “Terrorist Finance Tracking Program” (TFTP), is entirely legal. There are no conceivable constitutional violations involved. The Supreme Court held in United States v. Miller (1976) that there is no right to privacy in financial-transaction information maintained by third parties.

Here, moreover, the focus is narrowed to suspected international terrorists, not Americans, and the financial transactions implicated are international, not domestic. This is not data mining, and it does not involve fishing expeditions into the financial affairs of American citizens. Indeed, few Americans even have information that is captured by the program — though there would be nothing legally offensive even if they did.

And unlike the last vital program the New York Times compromised — the National Security Agency’s Terrorist Surveillance Program, which the same reporters, James Risen and Eric Lichtblau, exposed last December — there is not even a facially plausible concern that the TFTP violates statutory law.

The provisions germane here (mainly, the Right to Financial Privacy Act that Congress enacted in 1978 in reaction to Miller) do not even apply to the nerve center at issue, the Society of Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication.

That’s because SWIFT, as it is better known, is not a financial institution at all. It is a consortium, centered not in the U.S. but in Belgium, which simply — albeit importantly — oversees how funds are routed globally. It is a messenger, not a bank. Nevertheless, in an abundance of caution, the government uses administrative subpoenas — which were expressly provided for by Congress in the aforementioned Financial Privacy Act and the Patriot Act — when it seeks SWIFT information. That’s not just legal; it’s hyper-legal.

Nor is there any credible worry that the Bush administration is secretly and dictatorially running roughshod over privacy interests. Prominent members of Congress — including elected officials from both parties who serve on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees — have been briefed on the program since its inception after the 9/11 attacks.

The administration, moreover, has worked closely with SWIFT managers, who are led by the National Bank of Belgium and include such other independent financial powerhouses as the Bank of England, the European Central Bank, and the Bank of Japan, as well as the U.S. Federal Reserve.

The resulting collaboration has both narrowed the information gathered and ensured that its use is limited to counterterrorism purposes — not the prosecution of ordinary crimes. As if that were not enough, the TFTP is regularly subjected to independent auditing as an additional safeguard ensuring that information is accessed only for terrorism-related purposes.
No, the most salient thing we learn from today’s compromise of the TFTP is that the program has been highly effective at keeping us safe.

According to the government, it has helped identify and locate terrorists and their financial backers; it has been instrumental in charting terrorist networks; and it has been essential in starving these savage organizations of their lifeblood: funding.

The TFTP was evidently key to the capture of one of the world’s most formidable terrorists. Riduan bin Isamuddin, better known as “Hambali” — the critical link between al Qaeda and its Indonesian affiliate, Jemaah Islamiya, and thus at the center of the 2002 Bali bombing in which 202 people were slaughtered — is now in U.S. custody rather than wreaking more mayhem. He was apprehended in Thailand in 2003, thanks to the program, which identified a previously unknown financial link to him in Southeast Asia.

In another example, the TFTP led to the discovery that Uzair Paracha, in Brooklyn, might be laundering money for al Qaeda in Pakistan. Paracha was ultimately indicted. Last November, a federal jury in Manhattan convicted him for providing material support to a terrorist organization — specifically, trying to help an al Qaeda operative enter the United States to commit a terrorist act.

It was in view of the TFTP’s palpable value in protecting American lives, its obvious legal propriety, and the plain fact that it was being responsibly conducted that the administration pleaded with the newspapers not to reveal it after government officials despicably leaked it. Exposing the program would tell the public nothing about official misconduct. It would accomplish only the educating of al Qaeda — the nation’s enemy in an ongoing war; an enemy well-known to be feverishly plotting new, massive attacks — about how better to evade our defenses. About how better to kill us.

Appealing to the patriotism of these newspapers proved about as promising as appealing to the humanity of the terrorists they so insouciantly edify — the same monsters who, as we saw again only a few days ago with the torture murder of two American soldiers, continue to define depravity down.

The newspapers, of course, said no. Why? What could outweigh the need to protect a valid effort to shield Americans from additional, barbarous attacks? Bill Keller, executive editor of the New York Times, smugly decreed that the Bush administration’s “access to this vast repository of international financial data” was, in his singularly impeccable judgment, “a matter of public interest.”

And you probably thought George Bush was the imperious one. And that the public’s principal interest was in remaining alive. Wrong again.
The blunt reality here is that there is a war against the war. It is the jihad of privacy fetishists whose self-absorption knows no bounds. Pleas rooted in the well-being of our community hold no sway.

The anti-warriors know only the language of self-interest. It is the language that tells them the revelation of the nation’s secrets will result, forthwith, in the demand for the revelation of their secrets — which is to say, their sources in the intelligence community — with incarceration the price of resistance. It is the language admonishing that even journalists themselves may be prosecuted when their publication of national secrets violates the law.

Bluntly, officials who leak the classified information with which they have been entrusted can be prosecuted for theft of government property. If the information is especially sensitive, they can be prosecuted for violating the Espionage Act. In either event, the press has no legal right to protect such lawlessness.

That is our simple choice: Strong medicine we will either take or persist in declining … while resigning ourselves to more of the same.


— Andrew C. McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.


http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjE4ODFmMmI3ZmM5ZGE4ZDQxNmY1ODA5YTQ3NzkxZWQ=

Firetxmi
06-24-2006, 12:32 PM
Yet again, the New York Times was presented with a simple choice: help protect American national security or help al Qaeda

This is the kind of stuff that further divides our nation. You rail against the liberal media and how they "twist" words and sentences- what do you think this is?. This is a prime example of black and white thinking, "if your not with us your against us" B*lls*it! The world is not black and white, stop trying to portray it as such.

These articles are starting to get real lame, truth be told they were lame a long time ago. I will tell everyone how this thread will progress. Someone will now post a "back-patting" reply like "agree X12354235359" then a couple more will follow with such things as "right on" and "exactly." Someone will show a hint of discourse then Blackrain will post more articles and everyone will chime in on what a "libtard" he is and how he "must love al qaeda" and "hates America and is an America basher!"

I'll just sit back and watch the show now ;)

Deuterium
06-24-2006, 12:56 PM
This is the kind of stuff that further divides our nation. You rail against the liberal media and how they "twist" words and sentences- what do you think this is?. This is a prime example of black and white thinking, "if your not with us your against us" B*lls*it! The world is not black and white, stop trying to portray it as such.

These articles are starting to get real lame, truth be told they were lame a long time ago. I will tell everyone how this thread will progress. Someone will now post a "back-patting" reply like "agree X12354235359" then a couple more will follow with such things as "right on" and "exactly." Someone will show a hint of discourse then Blackrain will post more articles and everyone will chime in on what a "libtard" he is and how he "must love al qaeda" and "hates America and is an America basher!"

I'll just sit back and watch the show now ;)

The irony of your post is that you are also asking people to have a "black and white" view of the material in question.

I think most Americans are more concerned about identity theft issues than someone screening calls and phone number lists or their financial records in search of terrorists. My personal opinion is that until the average American starts to see innocent people hauled away they simply are willing to "concede" these breaches of personal liberty because of the GWOT. The Libs scream loudly about our loss of freedom and I guess I would concede they are correct, philosophically speaking. But for me, and I suspect most Americans, the images of 9/11 still smolder in my mind trumping any quixotic attempt to preserve my liberties. I think the same thing occurred during WW-II in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. If and when Islamo-terrorism recedes and the government is still looking at my phone and financial records I think you'll have far greater support for your side of the argument.

BlackRain
06-24-2006, 01:28 PM
This is the kind of stuff that further divides our nation. You rail against the liberal media and how they "twist" words and sentences- what do you think this is?. This is a prime example of black and white thinking, "if your not with us your against us" B*lls*it! The world is not black and white, stop trying to portray it as such.

These articles are starting to get real lame, truth be told they were lame a long time ago. I will tell everyone how this thread will progress. Someone will now post a "back-patting" reply like "agree X12354235359" then a couple more will follow with such things as "right on" and "exactly." Someone will show a hint of discourse then Blackrain will post more articles and everyone will chime in on what a "libtard" he is and how he "must love al qaeda" and "hates America and is an America basher!"

I'll just sit back and watch the show now ;)

Hey, you are entitled to your opinion.

My opinion is that these reporters and newspapers are helping our enemies during wartime.

If you want to support the news media in their effort to aid Al Quaeda by tripping over themselves revealing our national secrets --- then my conversation with you ends here.

KB
06-24-2006, 02:08 PM
The irony of your post is that you are also asking people to have a "black and white" view of the material in question.

I think most Americans are more concerned about identity theft issues than someone screening calls and phone number lists or their financial records in search of terrorists. My personal opinion is that until the average American starts to see innocent people hauled away they simply are willing to "concede" these breaches of personal liberty because of the GWOT. The Libs scream loudly about our loss of freedom and I guess I would concede they are correct, philosophically speaking. But for me, and I suspect most Americans, the images of 9/11 still smolder in my mind trumping any quixotic attempt to preserve my liberties. I think the same thing occurred during WW-II in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. If and when Islamo-terrorism recedes and the government is still looking at my phone and financial records I think you'll have far greater support for your side of the argument.


Wonder why the US hasn't gone ahead with a formal declaration of war, against Al Qaeda and nations that support them? Simplifies the Guatanamo issue; now detainees are POWs who can be held until the US declares an end to hostilities.

The "Libs" scream because many of the Bush Administration's actions have been carried out with little or no Congressional oversight; not that they appear to want any, at least the majority party in Congress. Many people still remember the Nixon Administration's enemies list, when people like actors Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, and Bill Cosby were listed and their activities monitored.

Atlantic Friend
06-24-2006, 02:16 PM
If and when Islamo-terrorism recedes and the government is still looking at my phone and financial records I think you'll have far greater support for your side of the argument.

With hazy concepts such as "War On Terror" (or "War on Drugs"), you're basically giving the government a blank check to monitor your (and your friends' and relatives') phone calls, financial data, consumer habits, religious affiliation and attendance, etc for generations to come, as Islamo-terrorism (are we talkking aboiut Islam, Islamism or Islamic terrorism here, BTW ?) is here to stay at the very least a few more decades...

Hollis
06-24-2006, 02:19 PM
Wonder why the US hasn't gone ahead with a formal declaration of war, against Al Qaeda and nations that support them? Simplifies the Guatanamo issue; now detainees are POWs who can be held until the US declares an end to hostilities.



Trying to remember the term for the detainees at Gitmo. They are not POWs, If they were they would be afforded more privleges, they rate with spies and sabotures. I think under those rules can be shot on sight. Non-uniformed "fighters" do not have specific protections such as uniformed soldiers.

Hollis
06-24-2006, 02:24 PM
With hazy concepts such as "War On Terror" (or "War on Drugs"), you're basically giving the government a blank check to monitor your (and your friends' and relatives') phone calls, financial data, consumer habits, religious affiliation and attendance, etc for generations to come, as Islamo-terrorism (are we talkking aboiut Islam, Islamism or Islamic terrorism here, BTW ?) is here to stay at the very least a few more decades...

You have been listening to the liberals too much. The ears of the government are not that big.

Our government needs effective tools, or any government when fighting a insurgency. I worry less about my government than I do yours, I worry less about your government than I do worry about the terrorist by a long shot. I am Sure France will do what is in the best interest of France, same with any other government. I just hope those that define each countries interest look at all the factors and try to determine the best long run statgey.

WarriorMonk
06-24-2006, 03:05 PM
With hazy concepts such as "War On Terror" (or "War on Drugs"), you're basically giving the government a blank check to monitor your (and your friends' and relatives') phone calls, financial data, consumer habits, religious affiliation and attendance, etc for generations to come, as Islamo-terrorism (are we talkking aboiut Islam, Islamism or Islamic terrorism here, BTW ?) is here to stay at the very least a few more decades...

I guess this could be viewed as quite simplistic, but it all comes down to "death by association."

Well, naturally, you'd probably have to explain yourself one way or the other, either to the guys in the interrogation room, or to your representative, or to your lawyer. You need to find a way to get out of the way, fast.

And Islamic terrorism is here to stay for a few decades? who wants that? how is it possible? I don't know, but to some that can sound very much defeatist or apologist, but that would be their opinion, not mine - I know it's a grey world, but sometimes we all will have to decide what is black and what is white and run with it, no matter what.

ibstolidude
06-24-2006, 03:09 PM
If and when Islamo-terrorism recedes and the government is still looking at my phone and financial records I think you'll have far greater support for your side of the argument.[/FONT]

Excellant post -

the above quote is exactly way are majority of AT/CT measures have a set renewal period - to ensure they are re-examined.

sp2c
06-24-2006, 03:16 PM
If it is perfectly legal I don't see the problem in the media covering it?

And Blackrain with his constant rants and raving about wicked evil Europe, their anti American attitudes is the last person that should be blaiming the media of taking the wrong side ... unless he wants to fight this war all by his lonesome of course but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the closest thing he's ever got to a fight was when someone cut in front of him while waiting for Blackhawk Down tickets and he allmost confronted him about it

Violet Fashion by Mindy
06-24-2006, 03:25 PM
Meh

Journalists looking into the runnings of government. Nothing new.

It must be said that investigative journalism acts as a barrier to stop governments going above and beyond the power vested in them by the people. It's also at times the only way criminal activities being conducted by the government can be exposed and governments held to account. Nixon comes to mind here.

I rather a system that can allow such breaches to occur. Because without it, governments will soon have carte blanch to act in ways they see fit because they will never be held to account.

BlackRain
06-24-2006, 05:31 PM
If it is perfectly legal I don't see the problem in the media covering it?


Did you miss the part where the US government, President, CIA, etc asked the newspapers to not report the story because it harmed national security --- and they did it anyway?


In this case, as in the NSA leak, Congressional members of the intelligence committee, Republican and Democrat, asked them not to print this information disclosure of which was harmful to national security. As in the NSA case, the White House warned the paper not to publish this information.

If as you say, the program is legal; why the rush to report on it other than to help the enemy?

Firetxmi
06-24-2006, 08:00 PM
Did you miss the part where the US government, President, CIA, etc asked the newspapers to not report the story because it harmed national security --- and they did it anyway?



If as you say, the program is legal; why the rush to report on it other than to help the enemy?

Is it illegal though?

Firetxmi
06-24-2006, 08:01 PM
I think one way to control people is to completely discredit an independent media.

Will938
06-24-2006, 08:32 PM
Is it illegal though?

No, apparently this is completely legal.

Hollis
06-24-2006, 08:40 PM
I think one way to control people is to completely discredit an independent media.

I think the media does a good job by itself, it needs no government interference.

dangerclose
06-24-2006, 10:14 PM
The world is not black and white

Hey .. isn't that an absolute, either/or ... errr... black and white claim?

dangerclose
06-24-2006, 10:18 PM
Whoever is leaking classified info during a time of war needs to be lined up in front of a firing squad.

And the editors who allow this to go public need to serve prison time.


.. just another reason to hate the american left.

ElHombre
06-24-2006, 10:20 PM
If as you say, the program is legal; why the rush to report on it other than to help the enemy?

because the admin refuses to put their programs up for review by congress and the courts (you rmemeber, those other two co-equal branches of gov't). if these programs are legal (a stance the admin is taking), then why not put it to the test?

sp2c
06-24-2006, 11:16 PM
Did you miss the part where the US government, President, CIA, etc asked the newspapers to not report the story because it harmed national security --- and they did it anyway?

no I didn't miss it, I simply didn't get it

so the US is monitoring terrorist funds, w00pdie****ingd00 so is the rest of the world
why is this such a big deal?? how is this helping al qaida??



If as you say, the program is legal; why the rush to report on it other than to help the enemy?
I didn't say that, your article did

Pandy
06-25-2006, 01:10 AM
because the admin refuses to put their programs up for review by congress and the courts (you rmemeber, those other two co-equal branches of gov't). if these programs are legal (a stance the admin is taking), then why not put it to the test?

All, but if you remember from the days of history class, the executive government does not need to put up programs or actions up for review by congress and the courts unless congress and the courts forces the executive branch to put them up. If not force, executive branch can do whatever it wants.

Like I say, Congress and the Courts are useless. **** them.

WarriorMonk
06-25-2006, 09:47 AM
no I didn't miss it, I simply didn't get it

so the US is monitoring terrorist funds, w00pdie****ingd00 so is the rest of the world
why is this such a big deal?? how is this helping al qaida??


I didn't say that, your article did

the article, I believe, revealed the methods of monitoring?

Firetxmi
06-25-2006, 10:51 AM
All, but if you remember from the days of history class, the executive government does not need to put up programs or actions up for review by congress and the courts unless congress and the courts forces the executive branch to put them up. If not force, executive branch can do whatever it wants.


Which is where the problem lies. Congress sucks almost as much admin **** as Bill O'Reilly. They are scared to go against the Executive branch. Who can blame them, look at what happens when you do.

BlackRain
06-25-2006, 10:57 AM
because the admin refuses to put their programs up for review by congress and the courts (you rmemeber, those other two co-equal branches of gov't). if these programs are legal (a stance the admin is taking), then why not put it to the test?

Again, another lie.

Congress already reviews the program as well as outside auditors and the subpoenas for the data are reviewed by a federal court.

The Senate Intelligence Committee has sent staff to the site to observe the operation and evaluate the safeguards in place. Details on the program have also been given to members of the Senate Banking Committee.

1) And each month, the Treasury Department issues a new subpoena to SWIFT under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.

2) Officials said that every search of the system was recorded and that those logs were audited by SWIFT as well as independent reviewers with the government contracting firm Booz Allen Hamilton Inc.

3) . The Supreme Court has squarely held that bank records are not constitutionally protected private information.

BlackRain
06-25-2006, 10:59 AM
the article, I believe, revealed the methods of monitoring?

Don't bother. There are just a few folks here that want AQ to learn how the USA is monitoring them.



``By following the money we've been able to locate operatives, we've been able to locate their financiers, we've been able to chart the terrorist networks, and we've been able to bring the terrorists to justice," he said.

``If people are sending money to help Al Qaeda, we want to know about it," Snow said.

Firetxmi
06-25-2006, 11:01 AM
Don't bother. There are just a few folks here that want AQ to learn how the USA is monitoring them.

Yep. I sit around my room wishing for that every day. Just like there are some people on this board who sit around thinking how to further deplete our Constituiton of any meaning, right? :roll:

Hollis
06-25-2006, 11:41 AM
lets face it, if the Media followed OPSEC, they would loose money. The headlines would suffer. The latest in the media debutants could not be the first with late breaking news.

shocker1
06-25-2006, 12:01 PM
Yep. I sit around my room wishing for that every day. Just like there are some people on this board who sit around thinking how to further deplete our Constituiton of any meaning, right? :roll:
Are these the same people restricting my freedom of worship to the inside of a church?

Firetxmi
06-25-2006, 12:45 PM
Are these the same people restricting my freedom of worship to the inside of a church?

Last I heard you can worship anywhere you want in the U.S.

Moose
06-25-2006, 01:19 PM
Well if you want your media to become like the media in the Middle East, who never do any investigative journalism and who never doubt what their government is telling them, then you should be irritated that your media doesn’t choose to keep quiet about things that your government wouldn’t want them to learn about.

I don’t see how this article is helping the terrorist seeing that they probably already were enough paranoid not to trust monetary transactions to be secret. Remember some of these people have been fighting their own governments in the Middle East who certainly don’t care about the rights of the people.

You always have to be aware of the possibility of an escalating effect. Wouldn’t you have wanted to learn about Watergate? Some of you are saying that you will give away some of your personal freedoms in the war against terrorism (ok that’s understandable). What if that war never ends in your or your children’s lifetime?

By the way, in what way do you want your media to help in the fight against terrorists? Do you want it to turn into the Chinese media the Stalinist Soviet media or North Korean media maybe the Taliban “media” could work as a good example? Could you give an example of a country that has had a media of you liking?

Secret Squirrel
06-25-2006, 01:46 PM
lets face it, if the Media followed OPSEC, they would loose money. The headlines would suffer. The latest in the media debutants could not be the first with late breaking news.

If the people who arent suppose to talk simply not talk then there wouldnt be a story. I know, it's an amazing concept but it goes against the media is evil and eats babies and stuff. ;)

Pandy
06-25-2006, 06:46 PM
By the way, in what way do you want your media to help in the fight against terrorists? Do you want it to turn into the Chinese media the Stalinist Soviet media or North Korean media maybe the Taliban “media” could work as a good example? Could you give an example of a country that has had a media of you liking?

The ones who reports the news, not the ones who selects what news they want to put up.

a_very_ex_STAB
06-26-2006, 03:53 AM
Trying to remember the term for the detainees at Gitmo. They are not POWs, If they were they would be afforded more privleges, they rate with spies and sabotures. I think under those rules can be shot on sight. Non-uniformed "fighters" do not have specific protections such as uniformed soldiers.

I think you will find that they do under the Geneva Convention