Greatest battles post 1980

[Ea$y-8]

- Battle of Goose Green

- Battle of Beirut

- Battle of Abadan

- Iranian Offensive on Barsa

- Battle of Tololing

- Battle of Mogadishu

- Siege of Sarajevo

- Battle of Grozny

- Battle of Tora Bora

- Battle of Fallujah

- 2nd Battle of Mogadishu

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Hey, interesting avatar.

Isn't that the dumbarse tank crew that decided to crush the Iraqi taxi drivers car for looting some firewood?

And on national TV no less...

[Skeletor]

- Battle of Goose Green

- Battle of Beirut

- Battle of Abadan

- Iranian Offensive on Barsa

- Battle of Tololing

- Battle of Mogadishu

- Siege of Sarajevo

- Battle of Grozny

- Battle of Tora Bora

- Battle of Fallujah

Excuse my ignorance but what exactly makes these battles great?

[Buckeye67]

73 Easting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting)

[wormie]

Hey, interesting avatar.

Isn't that the dumbarse tank crew that decided to crush the Iraqi taxi drivers car for looting some firewood?

And on national TV no less...
No, it's not.

[Minardiau]

No battle post 1980 can be considered great.

The amount of troops involved does not determine how "great" a battle is.

In the historical sense. A "great" battle is one that has changed history. As it stands now no battle since WW2 has any signifance. Despite the importance it has now.

Great battles shape and transform the geopolitical nature of the world. Nothing since WW2 has done that.

Also until the battles you think are "great" can be discussed without becoming political then in my book they never happened.

[gaijinsamurai]

Vanilla Ice vs. Todd "Willis" Bridges. Ice Baby got schooled.

[Atlantic Friend]

No battle post 1980 can be considered great.

The amount of troops involved does not determine how "great" a battle is.

In the historical sense. A "great" battle is one that has changed history. As it stands now no battle since WW2 has any signifance. Despite the importance it has now.

Great battles shape and transform the geopolitical nature of the world. Nothing since WW2 has done that.

Also until the battles you think are "great" can be discussed without becoming political then in my book they never happened.

Then I guess the battle between Iraqi troops and the Kuwaiti forces in july 1990 can be seen as great. Not in the sense of it being an intense battle, but in leading us where we are now with the entire Middle-East.

[Minardiau]

in 300 years time what has happened in Iraq will be seen as nothing more then a minor police action.

[S'13]

Great battles shape and transform the geopolitical nature of the world. Nothing since WW2 has done that.


I beg to differ...

According to you, the 1948 Israeli War of Independence and the 1967 Six Day War had no geopolitical influence. I'd like to meet the historian who would agree with that.

[Minardiau]

In our lifetime for sure those events have been important. It could be argued that they are indirectly responsible for the problems we have now.

However.

Tactically, strategically, politically, technically they have not been important in the grand scheme of things.

It's like this.

The Church tried for centuries to gain control of the Holy Lands.

Now how much importance is placed on the Crusades both militarily and historically?

However when British/Australian forces eventually took it away from the Muslims in WW1 the importance is not there. Despite the campaign involving more troops then any crusade.

With me?

[Kilgor]

in 300 years time what has happened in Iraq will be seen as nothing more then a minor police action.

Or george's adventure in the sandpit.

Nothing will compare to the great battles of ww2 like stalingrad or kursk, or 1200 bomber raids, or the horizon full of ships such as in D-day.

[Minardiau]

Exactly.

In those examples we are looking at battles that have changed human history. For good or for worse.

[Canuck Farrier]

in 300 years time what has happened in Iraq will be seen as nothing more then a minor police action.

Thats Bull****

[baboon6]

Cuito Cunivale, Angola 1987/88

[Ea$y-8]

Excuse my ignorance but what exactly makes these battles great?

How many troops involved, number of dead and wounded as well as their high intensity.

[Vandervahn]

How many troops involved, number of dead and wounded as well as their high intensity.

Sorry, but the only attribute that makes a battle "great" is its significance in a bigger picture.

[Impulse_t0]

2nd battle of Mogadishu.

[Skeletor]

How many troops involved, number of dead and wounded as well as their high intensity.

Does the number of dead and wounded civilians make it a great battle?
The civilian death count in many of your "greatest battles" exceeded the number of soldiers who were killed or wounded. But I guess that doesn't matter right?

[Kaplanr]

Sorry, but the only attribute that makes a battle "great" is its significance in a bigger picture.

Beg to differ. How about execution - as an aside from the battle's place in a war that may or may not have been consequential. The fact that he asks about post 1980 is an indication that he recognizes these actions aren't of the same import or scale as the big ones.

By definition then, every WWII battle is a great one.

[Canuck Farrier]

Desert Storm,Soviet Afghanistan,Falkland Islands war,NATO bombing campaign against Serbia,Medak Pocket.Iraq invasion alone was a great military success.

[Ea$y-8]

Does the number of dead and wounded civilians make it a great battle?
The civilian death count in many of your "greatest battles" exceeded the number of soldiers who were killed or wounded. But I guess that doesn't matter right?

Your right it doesn't. I would never call the firebombing of Dresden for example a "great battle".

[Canuck Farrier]

If even a battle at all,same as Hamburg and Nourembourg targeting and burning civilians by the thousands.And the media makes a big deal about Haditha.I hate the media they dig for **** and smear it everywhere.

[evanfitz]

The battle of Fallujah was pretty intense.

[The Starfox Kid]

Desert Storm,Soviet Afghanistan,Falkland Islands war,NATO bombing campaign against Serbia,Medak Pocket.Iraq invasion alone was a great military success.

How in the hell was the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan a great battle?

[Ea$y-8]

How in the hell was the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan a great battle?

x2 It was a war not a battle.

[The Starfox Kid]

x2 It was a war not a battle.

I know dude....I have the History Channel. p-)

[budgie]

in 300 years time what has happened in Iraq will be seen as nothing more then a minor police action.

Or perhaps an unjustified land-grab

[Atlantic Friend]

in 300 years time what has happened in Iraq will be seen as nothing more then a minor police action.

Provided in 300 years we still know where Iraq is on a map...

[The Starfox Kid]

Provided in 300 years we still know where Iraq is on a map...

Hell, not a lot of people know where it is right now.

[Ea$y-8]

Provided in 300 years we still know where Iraq is on a map...

I doubt Iraq will even be on the map.

[The Starfox Kid]

I doubt Iraq will even be on the map.

and why is that??

[Saranof]

.And the media makes a big deal about Haditha.I hate the media they dig for **** and smear it everywhere.


Yeah, pesky buggers get in the way don't they? you gotta hate freedom of speech.

[Cpt. Spaulding]

Fallujah & Grozny

Two sides of the same coin

First one a modern army smashes irregular troops (terrorist, insurgents, rebels....) and the second the mofos ambush and destroy a russian army colum.

They are not great in efectives number but yes in political meaning

[Kaplanr]

To the question at hand.

Goose Green - Falklands War 1982

IDF/AF reduction of Syrian SAM batteries - Bekaa Valley 1982.

[Crankep]

What defines a great battle? I don't really know. One can view it from a global and historical perspective or from a soldiers perspective.

An example could be The Battle of the Bulge. On a global scale it was just a desperate act by the germans to try to turn the war around. A war that was already lost. It is not like it was a battle that decided the outcome of a war. Though, from a soldiers view (that fought in the battle) it would be a great battle in terms of the suffering and intensity and what they experienced..

[XShipRider]

I'm partial to the retaking of the Falklands. Militarily outclassed in
most areas Argentina was counting on the fact that Britain would
not send a force approximately 1/3 of the way around the globe
to enforce their political posturing and rhetoric.

Britain overcame the logistical nightmare with Argentina putting up
a very good but limited fight. A couple of million dollars for French
Exocets is a pittance compared to the ships lost. Not to minimize
the Argentinian loss of the General Belgrano by any means either.

RIP the 900 dead from both sides.

[Alan]

1992, Tskhinval.

It gave a nation de facto independance.

[Kerpan]

No battle post 1980 can be considered great.

The amount of troops involved does not determine how "great" a battle is.

In the historical sense. A "great" battle is one that has changed history. As it stands now no battle since WW2 has any signifance. Despite the importance it has now.

Great battles shape and transform the geopolitical nature of the world. Nothing since WW2 has done that.

Also until the battles you think are "great" can be discussed without becoming political then in my book they never happened.
well, i dont know about that. the vietnam war, though not a battle did change alot. (I believe Korea is considered a conflict but not a war (right?)) Anyways, Vietnam started mass war rebellion. I'm sure there were some who opposed the draft in WW2 but you hear more stories of men being proud to fight for there country. Vietnam was seen as the government forcing the less fortunate young men of america to die. Vietnam was the first (and only) media war. We were able to get live accounts of a soldiers life. People could see what the soldiers were surviving through and this strengthened there hatred for the war. THis was the first war to integrate helicopter warfare (atleast widespread. I dont know what crazy prototype tests went on in WW2) and complete jungle warfare. This was the first war that would test our 5.56x45 cartridge and M16 rifles. This was also the first war that did not directly affect us, but because of the cold war we felt the need to step in.

I dont think you can say that no influencial battles have happened since WW2. I don't know how much one single battle of WW2 changed the world (any1 with an example?) but i know that Vietnam changed the worlds outlook on the U.S. and war.

[Kerpan]

Or george's adventure in the sandpit.

Nothing will compare to the great battles of ww2 like stalingrad or kursk, or 1200 bomber raids, or the horizon full of ships such as in D-day. the difference is, with new technology, we don't need to conscript large amounts of soldiers and build immense ammounts of ordinance and weaponary to fight a war. If you want explosions and death, go ahead but that is not a great battle!

[chuckster]

To the question at hand.

Goose Green - Falklands War 1982

IDF/AF reduction of Syrian SAM batteries - Bekaa Valley 1982.


These are good examples. I would add to that the 100 hour land war that culminated the first Gulf War. Especially when you consider the number of nations involved and the size of the forces.

[Kerpan]

don't know the name but some battle between like saudis and someone else and they had some of our tanks (circa 70's) no idea what model. Well whoever had the U.S. tanks got stomped and this caused us to start the M1A1 program or w/e. hopefully someone else has more info because i kno i'm not being very informative. That seems important because the M1A1 is a bit of a gold standard (maybe i'm wrong... there is that challenger) but help me out here!

[Kerpan]

I wanna throw Vukovar in because it didn't change the world, but it showed the JLA a thing or two...

[Lokos]

I wanna throw Vukovar in because it didn't change the world, but it showed the JLA a thing or two...

Like what, for example? How to sit on the other side of a river and shell a town? Contrary to popular belief, JNA casualties were not as high as Croat casualties in the Vukovar fighting (which does not mean that the Croats did not fight hard and well).

Read Brendan O'Shea's work on the conflict in question.

Lokos

[Kerpan]

Like what, for example? How to sit on the other side of a river and shell a town? Contrary to popular belief, JNA casualties were not as high as Croat casualties in the Vukovar fighting (which does not mean that the Croats did not fight hard and well).

Read Brendan O'Shea's work on the conflict in question.

Lokos

sure, but you still have to say it did show the JLA that they needed to rethink tactics. Vukovar is not the largest city and is located in a bit of a weakspot so the JLA had everything going for them and yet it still took them a while.

[Lokos]

It did take a very long time. The forces used to invest Vukovar could have gone on to Zagreb with very little opposition.

Better tactics and operational planning, certainly, could not have hurt.

Lokos

[Field_Gunner]

there are battles and wars going on right now and for the past 20-30 years that could show some sign of being great but the news doesnt like low itensity warfare.

[Lamer]

how is NATO bombing of serbia a great battle?
1) yugo war was 10000X more intense than NATOs intervention
2) bombing somebody with little chance to deffend themselfs is not great (same with Iraq)...

[Sergei]

and why is that??

Because the borders there are artificial, created by British colonization policy. Only complete retards could manage to mix sunnis, shias and kurds into one state. Iran has more in common with Shia south of Iraq than south and north of Iraq.

[Sergei]

Fallujah & Grozny

Two sides of the same coin

First one a modern army smashes irregular troops (terrorist, insurgents, rebels....) and the second the mofos ambush and destroy a russian army colum.

They are not great in efectives number but yes in political meaning

What battle of Grozny are you talking about? Because there were at least 3 of them.

[MichaelF]

Mount Tumbledown.

[dberwal]

Initial Assaults
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-6/Tololing6.jpg
Three battalions from the Nagas, Garhwal and Grenadier regiments tried to make their way from 2 sides but came under effective fire. The Pakistanis were entrenched all across the ridges in bunkers fortified with iron girders and corrugated sheets. The first 3 assaults were beaten off. The soldiers crawled up inch by inch along the steep incline with the wind howling around them and temperatures between –5 and –11 degrees Centigrade. The soldiers had to climb 16,000 feet with packs upto 25 kgs. In such situations where every kilogram counted a 2 kg food pack was discarded for more ammunition. Unfortunately the trade off did not work. The Pakistanis simply mowed them down. At times they did not even waste their ammunition preferring to throw stones and roll down boulders. The Nagas were the victim of such tactics. The men with just a single parka, jungle shoes, with rifles slung were climbing up with the help of a rope when rocks were rolled down crushing some troops. With no headway being made B company of 18th Grenadiers led by 28 year old Major Rajesh Adhikari made another frantic assault. Although two previous assaults had been repulsed, Adhikari succeeded in reaching a point beyond the Hump. The brilliance of his attack carried him to 15 meters of the ridgeline. At that point he and his men found themselves surrounded and outnumbered. A bitter close combat battle raged in which Adhikari along with Subedar Randhir Singh, Lance Naik R K Yadav and grenadier Parveen Kumar were killed. The rest were pushed back. Captain Sachin Nimbalkar and his men were stuck behind large rock on a tiny ledge on a sheer cliff face for 3 days. During this time the Pakistanis taunted him to take Adhikari’s body. The Grenadiers were shocked and that night the kitchen fires were not lit to mourn a dear officer.



The Final Assault ( Battel was fought minus 20 to 30 degrees Celsius)
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1108&g2_serialNumber=4http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-6/Tololing7.jpg (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=1107)
Officers & Jawans from the 2nd Rajputana Rifles pray before going into battle, to get back Tololing Top.
At 1830 hours 120 artillery guns opened up on Tololing top. The Bofors 155 mm guns started first. Used in direct fire mode they targeted the bunkers. Within minutes they were followed by the 130 mm and 105 mm guns. Shell after shell slammed into the ridges. As the expected Pakistani counter bombardment started, the 155 mm guns switched to HEER shells and started firing across the LOC at Pakistani gun positions located by the para commandos. The Pakistani guns were soon put out of action and were relegated to occassional shells. A few Pakistani mortars continued to lob shells.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1098&g2_serialNumber=4 (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=1097)
Jawans, getting ready with their weapons & gear for the long trek up the mountains. Carrying 70+ lbs., maybe more, coupled with the rarefied oxygen at these heights is no easy task.

Close to midnight the firing stopped. Major Vivek Gupta led his men with the battle cry "Raja Ramchandra ki Jai". There were 3 teams code names "Abhimanyu", "Bheem" and "Arjun". One went straight up. Another went around a lower ridge to cut off the enemy’s retreat and a third from behind. The Grenadiers provided covering fire against the Pakistanis on the nearby ridges.
In spite of the artillery there were still strong pockets of Pakistani troops in natural caves beyond the effect of artillery. They now opened up with machine guns on the crawling Indian troops. The troops inched up using the craters caused by artillery for cover. Inspite of the withering machine gun fire from the bunkers, troops had to crawl and use grenades to silence them. Back at the base the commanders were huddled around the wireless. However with the enemy at close quarters there was no time for communication. By 2.30 am desperation was setting in. Havaldar Yashvir Singh Tomar collected the grenades from the rest of the men. He then charged the last few bunkers. Getting there he tossed in 18 grenades being cut down. He was found with an assault rifle in one hand and grenade in the other. . Finally the troops closed in and bitter hand to hand combat ensued. At 4.10 am the wireless crackled the news. Tololing was won. It was at a heavy cost with Major Gupta and seven others killed that night. Among the dead was JCO Bhanwer Singh. The troops now had to hold of Pakistani reinforcements. It was the first major victory and there was jubilation all along the front. Every available camera clicked the moment. The army released extra rations for mithai that morning. At the Rajputana Rifles camp the celebration was tempered by the loss they had suffered. They suffered 4 officers, 2 JCOs and 17 OR dead and 70 wounded of whom 26 were incapacitated that they would never serve again.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-6/Tololing1.jpg
Two Jawans, from the 2nd Rajputana Rifles, take cover behind rocks on their way to Tololing Top

Meanwhile the job was still not over. Tololing was still vulnerable to a counter attack from the Hump. The task of capturing it was given to Major Joy Dasgupta of Charlie company 18th Grenadiers. At 2000 hours Major Dasgupta led the attack. Wading through the carefully sited machine gun fire it was suicidal. But once again the 155mm guns provided support. Firing and scooting to escape counter bombardment they kept a withering fire. The Grenadiers charged on till they reached the first bunker and silenced it. However the attack was stalling under heavy casualties. It was at this stage 2 extraordinary soldiers saved the day. Havaldar Dashrath Lal Dubey and Havaldar Udham Singh from two different companies joined together for an extra ordinary charge. The two charged the last few bunkers and cleared them. However Udham Singh died at the last bunker. The radio at headquarters crackled with the news that the Hump was taken. 12 men died in this do or die mission. Over the next few day a series of points all around fell to the Indian troops.

The importance of this victory cannot be underestimated. Till then the daily sight of men coming down the mountains carrying their dead comrades was a distressing sight. To the men stuck on various points in mountains the taunting of the Pakistani troops had left them feeling impotent. Now the Army had got a major victory followed by a string of successes. It meant that the Pakistanis could be beaten in spite of all the odds. Once again Indian soldiers with their fierce determination, living on so little achieved the impossible. Retaking Tololing was truly the turning point of the war.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1120&g2_serialNumber=4 (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=1119)
Exhausted Jawans, from the 2nd Rajputana Rifles, catch up on some much-needed rest and sleep, after capturing Tololing Top from the enemy
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1110&g2_serialNumber=4 (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=1109)
Jawans from the 2nd Rajputana Rifles, remember their 23 comrades who fell in the decisive battle for the Tololing Top. The battalion earned four Maha Vir Chakras, one of India's highest medals for gallantry, three of them being awarded posthumously.

For further reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tololing
http://www.captainvijyantthapar.com/finalassault.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-6/lns.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/History/1999War/index.html

Read The Last Letter From The Hero of Tololing Just Befor He Went For The Final Assult:
http://www.captainvijyantthapar.com/lastletter.html

Had Indian Army Lost This Battel We Would Have Lost Kargil, It would Have been part of Pakistan Toady!!!

[dberwal]

Grenadier Yogendra Singh Yadav, an Indian Army soldier instrumental in capturing the strategic Tiger Hill during the Kargil War. He was awarded the Param Vir Chakra - the country's highest gallantry award - and he spoke about how jawans captured Tiger Hill in an exclusive tête-à-tête.

It was 10:30 a.m. on July 5, 1999 at 16,500 feet above the sea level. We were 25 soldiers of the 18 Granadiers unit of the Indian Army. We were ordered to advance to capture Tiger Hill in the Drass Sector. After scaling the rocks for three nights, we were just 50 metres below Tiger Hill. As chance would have it, a stone slipped during our scaling operation. As the stone rolled down, it provoked heavy crossfire from the Pakistani bunkers which were just 10 meters above us. Due to the heavy firing, 18 of our jawans and officers had to retreat. Now, we were just seven jawans near the Pakistani bunkers. We were in a precarious situation, neither could we advance nor retreat. We thus had to wait for the right opportunity. By then, the enemy had deployed a company of 135 soldiers on top of Tiger Hill. After the firing stopped, we (seven of us) slowly began advancing to capture the Pakistani bunkers, just 10 metres away from us. At about 11:30 a.m. we opened fire at the bunker and gunned down four Pakistani soldiers. After we captured the Pakistani bunker, the Pakistan Army from the top of Tiger Hill sent 10 jawans to assess our strength.
Tiger Hill was just 40 metres away from us. As they moved near, we gunned down eight of them. Two escaped and reported back to their bosses that there were seven of us. After the preparations at 11:30 a.m. on the same day, 100 Pakistani Army men attacked our bunker. The attack was fierce, though we could gun down 35 Pakistani soldiers, I lost all six of my comrades. I carried 25 kg of ammunition with me and I almost got my ammunition exhausted and a re-supply wasn't possible from below. It was a very critical time. I was the sole survivor with six of my colleagues already dead and I was amid the corpses of Indian and Pakistani soldiers. The Pakistani troops thought they had destroyed the Indian Army below Tiger Hill. To ensure that all Indian jawans were dead, they shot at the bodies of Indian soldiers. I sustained about 15 gunshot injuries on my legs, arms, thigh and in other parts of my body. The Pakistanis were sure that I was dead. Then they took away the weapons from the bodies. But one soldier forgot the grenade that lay in my pocket. Meanwhile, I regained consciousness. And after that things moved fast. I took out my grenade, pulled the pin and threw it at the enemy. It fell in the enemy's cap which was hanging behind his neck. It exploded before he could react. After the explosion, his body was blown off in the air plunging the Pakistani Army camp into confusion - they thought that the Indian Army had attacked.


By then, I picked up the Peeka Rifle of a Pakistani soldier lying nearby and I opened fire which left five Pakistani soldiers dead. After my attack, the enemy camp thought that it was the Indian Army which had attacked them. I heard the order on their wireless to retreat from the Tiger Hill and further heard the instruction to attack the Indian MMG-base 500 metres below Tiger Hill. My main task was now to save the MMG base. But by that time, I had lost too much blood and was unable to stay conscious. I decided to move through a drain. I dumped myself in the drain covering my head. Now within five minutes I was below 400 meters and I saw my boss, Lieutenant Balwan. I told him that the Pakistanis wanted to attack the MMG base and had vacated Tiger Hill. On this tip-off, the officials deployed 'Charlie' and 'Delta' companies at Tiger Hill and deployed 'Bravo' company to save the MMG base. After a few minutes, Pakistani forces attacked the MMG base. This battle resulted in all the Pakistani soldiers being killed, since we had prior information of their arrival. Meanwhile, the 'Delta' and 'Charlie' companies had captured Tiger Hill. The war of seven hours was over and this is how we won Tiger Hill!!!
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1189&g2_serialNumber=2 (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=1188)
The 155mm Bofors aims towards Tiger Hill, a key Himalayan Peak in Dras.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1175&g2_serialNumber=2 (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=1174)
The BM-21 multi-barrel rocket launcher (MBRL) fires a rocket towards Tiger Hill. Although ageing, the BM-21 MBRL still packed quite a punch in the Kargil
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1128&g2_serialNumber=4 (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/main.php?g2_itemId=1127)
Grenadier Yogender Singh Yadav, 18 Grenadiers, receiving Param Vir Chakra - India's highest gallantry award - from President K.R. Narayanan. Grenadier Yadav was awarded the medal for his outstanding bravery on Tiger Hill.

[Royal]

Vietnam was the first (and only) media war.

Oh yeah? What is Iraq, what was the Falklands, the Lebanon, Bosnia?

THis was the first war to integrate helicopter warfare (atleast widespread. I dont know what crazy prototype tests went on in WW2)

Korea, Dhofar, Aden, Boeneo anyone?

and complete jungle warfare.

Remember a little spat called WWII? A beleive the US got involved in a fair bit of jungle warfare (after a late start)...

This was the first war that would test our 5.56x45 cartridge and M16 rifles.

Arguable - they were being used in Borneo and South Arabia at the same time.

This was also the first war that did not directly affect us, but because of the cold war we felt the need to step in.

So the Spanish American war, the invasions of Cuba and the Phillipines a hundred odd years ago affected the US as a whole?

Because the borders there are artificial, created by British colonization policy. Only complete retards could manage to mix sunnis, shias and kurds into one state.

I think that although led by the British - The Treaty of Sèvres of August 10, 1920 was signed by all the Entente and Associated Powers:

The United Kingdom
France
Italy
Japan
The USA
Russia
Greece
Belgium
Armenia
The Hedjaz (now Saudi Arabia)
Poland
Portugal
Romania
The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (to become Yugoslavia)
and
Czechoslovakia

Iran has more in common with Shia south of Iraq than south and north of Iraq.

Now you're showing your ignorance. Both are (largely) Shia - that's where it ends. The Iranians are Persian. The Iraqi's Arab and they are that long before they are Muslim which is why the Iranians have so many problems with their Arab population in Khuzestan.

[Lokos]

Both are (largely) Shia - that's where it ends. The Iranians are Persian. The Iraqi's Arab and they are that long before they are Muslim which is why the Iranians have so many problems with their Arab population in Khuzestan

Royal,

Do you know if the Iraqi Shi'ite recruits were relied on as much as Sunni ones during the Iran-Iraq War? My impression is that they fought about as well as the Sunnis, regardless of the fact that they were fighting co-religionists.

Lokos

[Royal]

Royal,

Do you know if the Iraqi Shi'ite recruits were relied on as much as Sunni ones during the Iran-Iraq War? My impression is that they fought about as well as the Sunnis, regardless of the fact that they were fighting co-religionists.

Lokos

More so if anything - the war was fought largely in the South (of Iraq) and the Shia make up a larger percentage of the population - so from that fact alone they made up a greater part of the Iraqi forces. The so called elite units such as the Republican Guard were overwhelmingly Sunni, but they were used more as shock troops rather than being in the line month in month out.

It wasn't really until the post Gulf War War 1 period that large numbers of them became 'unreliable' as far as the Ba'athists were concerned.

They were Arab Iraqi's who were Shia - which is why the Iranians had so many problems with Khuzestan (the area the other side of the Shat al Arab) - because the majority there are also Arab Shia - rather than Persian Shia.

[Brixmis]

This is turning in to a Pissing contest,seeing who can get furthest up the wall!

I spent my 19th birthday,sheltering behind my Stalwart,in up country Aden,for 2 hours whilst some of the local indigenous personnel,were using our convoy for target practice,not very exciting,you had to be there,but for a teenager to realise he is not immortal,is a great experience,and I consider that a great battle,it's all subjective.

Anybody that has served in some of the s**t holes of the world,has to agree that there is no such thing as a great battle,if you are in one,the only thing great about it is getting out in one piece,and if you aren't in one the only great thing is that you aren't in it.
woot

Lets face it all wars/battles,are caused through the geopolitical aspirations,of some little "wilf" somewhere,who is not going to get anywhere near the"pointy"end of anything.
:bash:

The next thing you know,we'll be working these things out on a points system,combat sucks,but someone has to do it,that doesn't mean we have to enjoy it,or look upon it with some sort of affection,people die,normally for some crappy reason,you explain that to their loved ones,and tell them they died in a Great Battle!:oops:

Scratch any decent soldier and you should find a pacifist.