Patriotism in schools

[Kershner]

The law in arizona about the flags in every classroom is common sense (yes they should fly). Our ancestors died so that we could have that flag and our independence and now all these liberal hippies in this country want to spit in their face and not fly the flag. It should be mandatory that the flag flies in every classroom and kids should say the pledge of allegience. If you think that the pledge of allegience is just promoting god just leave that part out. You dont have to say the whole thing for it to mean something. Even if you repeated just one sentence it would still be worth it. It just disgusts me that our country is turning into all these whining babies. We used to be a proud country where those things mattered to us and the sacrifice others gave meant something to us. Now it is just too much of a burden for the people of america to realize importance of both of those symbols in our culture. Have some dignity and be honored that you live in this country, realize what others gave up so that you could be here today. Its time to wake up america.

[Danik]

Where are these hippies doing what you say?

[VOD]

A man in California wanted the Pledge of Allegience to be banned because it has the word "god" in it, yes, welcome to california. The only state where anything remotly related to religion is EVIL!!!

[Ordie]

In what part of the Constitution requires a flag in every classroom?
Or recite the pledge?
What if a person does not want to say the pledge?
What if I don't believe in God?

What does the 1st amendment say about this?

Exercising our rights before they are taken away is true patriotism.
If you don't use it, you will lose it.

[XShipRider]

In what part of the Constitution requires a flag in every classroom?
Or recite the pledge?
What if a person does not want to say the pledge?
What if I don't believe in God?

What does the 1st amendment say about this?

Exercising our rights before they are taken away is true patriotism.
If you don't use it, you will lose it.
If people don't want flags flown in every classroom -- elect new
state representatives and have them removed. You are alluding
the US Constitution somehow disallows display of the flag on or
in public buildings.

The first amendment does not come into play since it is not
infringing on that particular amendment in any way, shape or
form. The flags, that is.

If you don't believe in God then you have the right to sit
silently while others say the pledge. As long as you're not
saying it, or being forced to recite it, then your rights are
not being infringed. The very first word of the pledge is "I"
not "We" so you're not being force fed God. Heaven forbid!
Nowhere in the first amendment does it assure you will
never 'hear' the word "God."

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Yes, what we seem to be caught up in today is the "right to not be offended". Sorry, but free speech and free expression go hand in hand with the fact that others may be offended. What some of these people would seem to prefer is a massive, monolithic, and all-powerful central government that subdues the population and bends them to their particular worldview; YOU WILL NOT MENTION A DEITY. YOU WILL ACCEPT AND NOT POKE FUN AT BEHAVIORS X, Y AND Z. YOU WILL NOT THINK THE FOLLOWING THINGS... etc.

The real world is a lot messier - and one occasionally has to sit through something that the majority wants.

[Hiroshima]

Well, given that some President or other tacked on the words 'Under God' at some point during the Cold War......meh, have a Flag in the class room, say the pledge, go ahead and edit out the Under God bit....or you can just stand there and ignore it..

[Danik]

We have to respect the rights of the individual over the majority all the while complaining about how interest groups control US policy.

[Hiroshima]

Hmm...well, if there was just some way to restrict those interest groups ability to sway politicians....like Congressional Campaign reforms and Lobbying reforms....

[Deuterium]

Get to know your local school board and VOTE!!! You only have yourself to blame if you don't like what's going on in your district. Run for the school board if you really want to make some changes.

[remo williams]

This shyte cracks me up. All this hoopla about flags in classrooms and reciting the Pledge of Alliegence is just political soap box grandstanding. treating the symptom rather than the cure. Moreover it's an example to me, of the more you get the more you forget. When i went to grade school (in a private catholic school), we recited the Pledge and sung either the Star Spangled Banner or God Bless America. There was a State Flag and the American flag in every classroom in some various size or other. We actually got very little religious instruction at all. You had to go to the church Sunday school for that. We learned about evolution, science and math as well as english without all the bs that appears to be commonplace now. They realized that if we couldn't pass tests, they'd loose enrollment. Now all this "creationism" and separation/inclusion of church and state is more important than the quality of the education they're supposed to be giving. it's amazing to see public schools behaving like this when the catholic schools weren't. Rant over....

[Durandal]

Not too sure why we just don't go back to the pre-communist scare Pledge and leave the whole God thing out anyways.

It certainly doesn't lessen the text (in fact I think it makes it stronger).

What I find amusing....on both sides of the Pledge argument is the need to fight it...

Who cares. They are kids...you think they actually care? They just want to get out of class and play Xbox, dolls, and build forts...

You got lefty hippies who are insulted by it...as if it is going to brainwash children.

You got righty goons who think if you don't say it you don;t love your country.

Both are nuts...

[Durandal]

The law in arizona about the flags in every classroom is common sense (yes they should fly). Our ancestors died so that we could have that flag and our independence and now all these liberal hippies in this country want to spit in their face and not fly the flag. It should be mandatory that the flag flies in every classroom and kids should say the pledge of allegience. If you think that the pledge of allegience is just promoting god just leave that part out. You dont have to say the whole thing for it to mean something. Even if you repeated just one sentence it would still be worth it. It just disgusts me that our country is turning into all these whining babies. We used to be a proud country where those things mattered to us and the sacrifice others gave meant something to us. Now it is just too much of a burden for the people of america to realize importance of both of those symbols in our culture. Have some dignity and be honored that you live in this country, realize what others gave up so that you could be here today. Its time to wake up america.

What I find amusing is that you find America is JUST represented by the flag and that the flag is far more important the people it represents.

[chas]

So because your forefathers (obviously letting out of memory half of europes criminals and the same puritans who outruled makeup, theater, public reading, ... in England) fought you COULD do that, why do you wanna FORCE other to do that.
Actually that shows that you forefathers failed a little in their freedom experiment as they gave birth to a Constitution that allows such forcing laws to be dictated and a society that want such laws to force their co-citizens.

BTW: I truly respect people like Franklin, Washington or Jefferson, but i dont think they would be OK with people like KERSHNER.

Cheers!

[Moose]

Why do you pledge allegiance to your flag in the classrooms?

[Hollis]

Why do you pledge allegiance to your flag in the classrooms?

I guess you missed your civics class.

Oregon is horrible place rains all the time, moss is everywhere, so don't move here (disclaimer)

Our school system in rural Oregon is really neat, Kids say the pledge, there is a winter assembly where songs are song, some Christian, some Jewish, some of other faiths. NO PROBLEM. The school does a talent show, Kids can sing any G rate material religious or not. The pledge is said, Vets are honored..

Even the meeting of military bands in the capital, same thing,

Flags are seen flying, Flags line the bridges in Salem on National Holidays. Two cars meet at a intersection the drivers wave full hands and smile at each other, not the Kalifornia one finger salute.

But to balance it we do have Kalifornia (PDRK) minded people that come to our state and wave that one finger salute and make nasty remarks about faith and patriotism. But as our past Government Tom McCall would say, visit Oregon, leave your money and NOW leave.

[NG_LtInfSqdLdr]

HOLLiS,

I'm in the Oregon Guard, have been since 98. I live in Redding. Its not all Kalifornians that are mucking up Oregon Polytics. Plenty of homegrown 'enlightened intellectuals' right there in Ashland, Eugene, and Beaverton. There are still plenty of Californians left in the Republic. We just don't get the publicity. My kids' school in Redding, CA is the same way:

"Kids say the pledge, there is a winter assembly where songs are song, some Christian, some Jewish, some of other faiths. NO PROBLEM. The school does a talent show, Kids can sing any G rate material religious or not. The pledge is said, Vets are honored.. "

That being said, Oregon is the worst possible place on the planet to live. The weather is miserable, snow and rain in the winter, and hot forest fires in the summer. The economy is terrible, there are no jobs, and people are really stupid. Don't move there. (just kidding) Seriously, please don't move there, its the last good place to live on the west coast. You can still feel American there. None of this 'cultural diversity' kumbayah, america is the devil garbage. There should be an application you have to file before you can cross the Mt. Ashland pass on I-5.

BTW, it's Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Just wanted to point that out to our readers.

[Hollis]

HOLLiS,

I'm in the Oregon Guard, have been since 98. I live in Redding. Its not all Kalifornians that are mucking up Oregon Polytics. Plenty of homegrown 'enlightened intellectuals' right there in Ashland, Eugene, and Beaverton. There are still plenty of Californians left in the Republic. .

Your right, I stated Kalifornia minded.. Not California.

Oh yes, on I-5, I still have my Oregon Border control hat.

Still some nice places in California. Oregon is also getting over grown. The large metro areas are starting to act like all the other in the US.

[TacoDelRio]

Where are these hippies doing what you say?

California.

Wanna come over and see for yourself?

[Hollis]

California.

Wanna come over and see for yourself?

Yep and go to Eugene Oregon, the land that time has forgotten, Still lots of Tie Dyed.

[TacoDelRio]

Damn I was kinda hopin' Oregon woulda been safe from the homoinvasion.

[Hollis]

Damn I was kinda hopin' Oregon woulda been safe from the homoinvasion.


It is not a issue where I live. Gals in tight fitting wranglers are...

[TacoDelRio]

Mmmmmm boy! :)

My buddy lives in Yakima; says the whole state is OK except for Seattle with the hippies and whatnot.

[Atlantic Friend]

BTW, it's Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Just wanted to point that out to our readers.

Do you mean people are free to worship Allah or even Satan, but aren't to disbelieve ?

[Hollis]

Do you mean people are free to worship Allah or even Satan, but aren't to disbelieve ?'

Google Anton LaVae.............

[evanfitz]

The US was founded on by christianity, its a major part of our history. If you have no religious beliefs then you could simply leave god out of the pledge (freedom of speech).

[Ordie]

Sometimes I wonder if we would be better off being a British Colony.

No slavery

No Civil War

Universal health care

A decent Rugby team

High tea

[jetsetter]

The "Pledge of Allegience" is a somewhat complicated matter. Here is the pledge as it was originally.


I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

It was written in 1892 by a socialist author and minister named Francis Bellamy. The words "under God" were added on to the pledge officially on June 14th, 1954.


Before World War II, the Pledge was begun with the right hand over the heart during the phrase "I pledge allegiance". The arm was then extended toward the Flag at the phrase "to the Flag", and it remained outstretched during the rest of the pledge, with the palm facing upward, as if to lift the flag. An earlier version, the Bellamy salute, also ended with the arm outstretched and the palm upwards, but began with the right hand in a military salute, not over the heart. Both of these salutes differed from the Roman salute, where the palm was toward the ground. However, during the war the outstretched arm became identified with Nazism and Fascism, and the custom was changed: today the Pledge is said from beginning to end with the right hand over the heart.

On September 13, 1988, Sonny Montgomery became the first Congressman to lead the U.S. House in citing the Pledge of Allegiance as a permanent part of its daily and morning business operations.

On June 24, 1999 the Senate passed a resolution sponsored by Senator Bob Smith of New Hampshire to recite the Pledge before each day's session.

The Pledge is also recited before many local city council meetings and school board meetings, as well as before some school functions.




1892 to 1923:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1923 to 1954:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1954 to Present:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."


To be truthful I like the original pledge better than the latter versions. "Our flag", not just "the flag".

[Durandal]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

They should have stopped there...this pledge is mighty and sums it up.

[evanfitz]

To be truthful I like the original pledge better than the latter versions. "Our flag", not just "the flag".


yeah, its more meaningful