Why the change of colors of berets?

I know this happened a while back, but anyone know why the Black beret which was worn only by Rangers can be worn by everyone in the army now? Why the change to tan?

[NcDeuce]

Shinseki wanted to 'boost the morale' in a nutshell...

Bastard

Maroon = Airborne, 160th SOAR, etc.

Green = well duh

Tan sounds cool to me

Oh yeah, did I mention Shinseki is a bastard?

Edit: I need to stop logging onto this forum when I'm bouncing off the walls...it results in odd posts like the above :lol:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/03/16/black.beret.02/

[FallenAngel]

I thought that maroon was AF PJs?

I wonder why the Army wanted to boost morale though? I know the Marines have an exceptional esprit de corps due to their training and history. The only thing that distinquishes one Marine from another is the name on the front of their blouse. No unit patches, no funky hats, no 'tabs' or 'scrolls' or anything.

Did the Army try to emulate this? If so...why adopt a beret to do it?

[angry cow]

GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!! FEE! FIE! FOE! FUM!
"I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant"
Shinseki . . . bastard . . . beret . . . should be earned . . . dishonoring . . . Rangers . . . all those who earned it . . . Shinseki . . . bastard . . . he can . . . suck my . . .

[NcDeuce]

I thought that maroon was AF PJs?

I wonder why the Army wanted to boost morale though? I know the Marines have an exceptional esprit de corps due to their training and history. The only thing that distinquishes one Marine from another is the name on the front of their blouse. No unit patches, no funky hats, no 'tabs' or 'scrolls' or anything.

Did the Army try to emulate this? If so...why adopt a beret to do it?

A bunch of units wear the maroon beret...Airborne, 160th, SF Support, and I think AF PJs wear them too.

I agree...a grunt in the 80s is just as capable as a grunt in the present [excluding advances in weaponry and all that good stuff]. Does a freakin beret really make a difference?!

I'm going off topic here once again...but I do admire the Marine tradition of slicing the cake. The Army needs some cool shi* like that.

So cooks and desk jockeys wear the black beret ?

[scott]

yep

(3) Black beret.
(a) Soldiers who are not assigned to units or positions authorized wear of the tan, green, or maroon berets will wear
the black beret. This includes senior and junior ROTC instructors, unless otherwise indicated below.
(b) Soldiers are issued the black beret upon assignment to their first permanent duty assignment after the completion
of initial entry training or officer/warrant officer basic courses. Cadets and officer/warrant officer candidates will not
wear the black beret. Split-option soldiers or soldiers in the simultaneous membership program will wear the black
beret only when performing duties with their units, and they will wear the patrol cap with the BDU, as described in
paragraph 3–5b below, when in a cadet or trainee status. Soldiers who have not been issued or who do not wear the
black beret will wear the patrol cap with the BDU, as indicated in paragraph 3–5b below. In those cases where beret
sustainment levels are not sufficient for turn-in and reissue of unserviceable berets, the commander can authorize the
temporary wear of the patrol cap until the beret can be replaced.

-ar760-1

baby (army) blue flash on all black berets with rank for officers and dui for enlisted as per usual

that's so stupid, a beret signifies something important, when I see someone wearing a beret, I know he's good to go, but if everyone wears a beret? Eh, forget it...

[scott]

(getting ready for a flaming, no offense to any that i disagree with)

do rangers that believe that a black beret should be earned have a right to be angry? absolutely
do i believe in symbols and traditions for elite units? of course

but a view from the other side,
i think the black beret of today signifies something important too.
i think that each computer tech, dentist, chaplain and hell finance officer have every right to wear the black beret, because every person with "US army" over their heart can call themselves a soldier.

the US army has the highest tooth to tail ratio in history, and for every combat soldier, theres a soldier relaying communications, cooking food, preparing ordinance, treating wounds or devising tactics. id like to think of all or these soldiers, whether overweight, nearly retired or and 18 year old private to be "good to go" for what ever theyre tasked with.

this can be summed up by the simple fact that the modern american army is a team of professionals, a team that is unified by the uniform- and by arguably the most distinctive headwear american soldiers have ever worn.

of course this is an old debate and both sides have fought hard, but hopefully the tan beret will work its way into the hearts of rangers years from now.

[Dominique]

Here's quick breakdown of who wears what type of berets.

Army:
Black - Friggin everybody :( (formerly only the 75th Ranger Reg.)
Maroon - Airborne, Pathfinder, LRS, etc.
Tan/Sand colored - 75th Ranger Reg.
Green - SF

Air Force:
Blue - Security Forces
Black - TACP personnel (TACCS, ETAC, ALO), and Tactical ALO
Maroon - PJ/CRO
Scarlet (Red) - CCT/STO
Grey (Combat Weather/Special Tactics CWX)

[mocking_loudly_died]

I want a hot pink beret, with "to sexy to die" embedded on it.

[SABER 2-3]

I admit that the Black Beret was a big factor for me when I volunteered for the Ranger Regiment, and I will admit that walking around Main Post (just to be seen) was a favorite for a whole lot of us because of that same beret. Rangers have always been resistant to AR when it comes to uniforms and should have known "Big Army" would screw it up. Atleast the 75th RGR RGT and RTB was permited to picks its own replacement.

Oh well, the American Ranger will carry on...
It reminds me of the story of the General whose Assault Force was stalled out on a beach in France, on the 6th of June, who asked a young soldier he observed moving forward and making ready w/ a bangalor torpedo "Who are you (with) Soldier"? The reply "Were Rangers Sir"! The Generals answer "Well, Rangers lead the way! Get us off this beach"!
They did, and still do. The color of a beret does nothing to change that.

[haze99]

Yes, USAF PJ's wear maroon berets with badge. This is awarded at the end of their training, at the PJ Technical Course at Kirtland AFB, NM.

*Little known fact! USAF Tactical Air Control Party, TACP, most times incorrectly referred to as FAC. This career field, received authoriztion to wear black berets in 1979. In 1985 a flash & crest wear authorized for wear on the beret. Most don't wear theirs now, so as not to mistaken for soldiers!

USAF Combat Control Teams wore blue berets until 1977, when a USAF General looking to raise the "morale" of Security Police, authorized the blue beret for them! Well, CCT switched to scarlet red and have worn that since!

Combat Weather Teams wear grey berets.

[SABER 2-3]

USAF TACP also wore the Ranger scroll of the BN to which they were assigned and the Ranger tab (when awarded). Atleast around Ft. Benning they wore their berets as often as we did. USAF TACP followed the same SOP as the RGR RGT.

[WARPIG]

****seki wanted to give the Army a more Commando look. The transformation of the US Army into a more agile and dynamic force was part of his decision. I guess the description of "distinctive head gear" was not on his mind. The beret is the worst headgear you would want to wear. There is nothing practical about it. The use is asthetic and traditional only. Units are awarded the distinctive headgear to set them apart from the mass of the military. Shinseki just wanted to leave his mark in military history. Pissing on Ranger honor is what he will be remembered for. Changing the head gear may not have been a bad idea. I agree with the concept of making the Army look more commando like and gradually transforming us. It will help the mindset and culture of the Army as we move through interim force and into objective force. But there are many other options that could have been considered. The beret is now a joke. Very few people actually know how to wear it and seeing the people wearing what looks like half cooked Jiffy-Pop just makes me want to spit.

[NcDeuce]

Very few people actually know how to wear it and seeing the people wearing what looks like half cooked Jiffy-Pop just makes me want to spit.

Yes, it's pretty annoying to see the beret look like a f*cking chef hat.


story of the General whose Assault Force was stalled out on a beach in France, on the 6th of June, who asked a young soldier he observed moving forward and making ready w/ a bangalor torpedo "Who are you (with) Soldier"? The reply "Were Rangers Sir"! The Generals answer "Well, Rangers lead the way! Get us off this beach"!
They did, and still do. The color of a beret does nothing to change that.

Cota & Schneider woot

[WARPIG]

Can I hijack this?

I need to rant.

I had to go to a board recently. I take the time to press my uniform, polish boots, and shape my beret to standard. Without being too conceited, I look like a recuiting poster boy no matter if I am going to a board or going to the range. I look sharp when I "put it on."
I go to the board, blow them away, and step out to take a break. When I see the people that boarded me....ahrrrgggh! "Iron chef goes commando!" Not just one guy but the whole friggin board!

On top of everything I just found out that to get my new NG full time job I have to reclassify as a REMF!
GRRRRRRRR!

[11F5S]

So cooks and desk jockeys wear the black beret ?

Do gyrene "cooks and desk jockeys" wear dress blues.

Lets set the record straight here sonny...those cooks and desk jockeys wearing the black berets are US Army Soldiers....and are an important part of the team. You on the other hand are nothing but a still wet behind the ears kid living off the teat, so show some respect and STFU.

[SABER 2-3]

"SO COOKS AND DESK JOCKEYS WEAR THE BLACK BERET"


Reality check. Most of the men/women serving in the military (all branchs) are support troops ensuring that the small percentage of combat arms troops can do their missions.

Ask any 11 series (or any other MOS on target) Ranger who served w/ B Co. 3rd Bn. 75th Ranger Rgt. on 03OCT93-04OCT93 if "cooks and desk jockeys" wear black berets.

[johnnysix]

the black beret actually traces its roots to the cavalry, not the rangers. my uncle wore the black beret in 'nam and on the german border with the 11th acr.

[WARPIG]

Cooks, admin, JAG, even the Chaplain, not only wear the Black beret but wear wings and the Red Beret if they are in an Airborne unit. Yeah.. even women. If a ditsy blond chick with just enough IQ to be a cook in the military passes jump school and goes to Ft Bragg... Red beret and wings.. she is a Paratrooper.

Gyrenes aren't all combat troops.. even though they like to say that every marine is a rifleman. Support is how we win wars. Our logistics is what has kept us on top militarily for the past several decades. How the hell do you keep the most poweful military in the world completely voluntary? Feed them, pay them, give them all the tools they need.

[scott]

if a ditsy blonde passed jump school then shes airborne qualified
good for her for passing and give her a maroon beret

thats her badge of honour, she earner her wings and should be proud

i agree with your entire 2nd paragraph warpig

[Scrim]

Personally I quite like the beret, and dont see a problem with the whole Army wearing them. Just think it was a mistake to "steal" the Rangers beret color. Why couldnt they have gone with a color that wasnt already being used? And for the love of God, like Warpig said, does the Army(regular) not give classes on the proper wearing and shaping of the beret!!??

[mustamato]

It´s a international trend to issue berets to all soldiers. A couple of years
ago all Finnish soldiers got a green beret (except special branches, like armour,
paratroopers, coastal jaegers etc that still have their own and in some cases
most be earned).

http://www.teres.fi/erna/2001/kuvat/17-lauantai_jatkot/IMG_2001.jpg
Dude in the middle wearing green army beret with silver lion, issued to
all soldiers as part of their uniform, the other two have paratrooper berets
which of course must be earned.

http://www.mil.fi/merivoimat/joukot/uudpr/15082003_02.jpg
Finnish Navy troops with their dark blue beret with a anchor, some of them
are wearing a green beret with a eagle, this must be earned (which obviously
only a few of them have)

The same thing i Sweden, with a dark blue beret to all soldiers, and a brown
to the Homeguard, except for all those special branches that have their own.

http://www.t2.mil.se/images/local/natfyrabask.jpg
Officers in the T2 (logistics) regiment with their dark blue beret

[Dominique]

USAF TACP also wore the Ranger scroll of the BN to which they were assigned and the Ranger tab (when awarded). Atleast around Ft. Benning they wore their berets as often as we did. USAF TACP followed the same SOP as the RGR RGT.

TACP, Tactical ALO's, Combat Weather, and Special Tactics Combat Weather all wear the patch of the Army unit they are assigned to (Inf, Armor, SF, etc.).

[crazyman]

ok honestly, who the **** cares? its a goddamn hat. many european nations have been issueing berets to all their servicemen/women for decades, yet in america we have this fascination with a ****ing hat. personally i'm quite happy with my pc. keeps sun out of the eyes, you can get the thing dirty and just toss it in the wash. whatever. we wear what we're issued, and thats the end of it. and one more thing, those of you who are all up in arms about everyone wearing a beret, shut up. those cooks, supply troops, etc are putting their lives at risk so that you can sit around bitching on a computer.

[FallenAngel]

ok honestly, who the f*** cares? its a goddamn hat. many european nations have been issueing berets to all their servicemen/women for decades, yet in america we have this fascination with a f*** hat. personally i'm quite happy with my pc. keeps sun out of the eyes, you can get the thing dirty and just toss it in the wash. whatever. we wear what we're issued, and thats the end of it. and one more thing, those of you who are all up in arms about everyone wearing a beret, shut up. those cooks, supply troops, etc are putting their lives at risk so that you can sit around bitching on a computer.

I think the bitching is about the color of the beret chosen. Up until it's adoption, the black beret was a mark of honor to those who went through tougher training than most. It set them apart, while still appearing in the same uniform. Now.....everyone wears the beret, including those who went through the basic training only (cooks, clerks, truck drivers, etc.). Thus, there is not anything to set apart those who have gone above and beyond the minimal expectations. (except tabs, scrolls, unit patches, both past and present, CIF badges, campaign ribbons, etc :lol: )

I also agree it's just a stupid hat. But I can also understand for individuals to want to be seen as "elite". Now, for Marines, just being a Marine is enough for you to consider yourself as above and beyond the minimal requirements (whether that's true or not is for another place and time) which is why a Marine clerk looks exactly the same as a Recon Marine in uniform. But in the Army it's different obviously- unit pride comes before the pride of being a member of the Army.

I can see both sides of the argument. Worst case senario...one group changes the color of the hat (as the Rangers have done) and everything should be fine.

So cooks and desk jockeys wear the black beret ?

Do gyrene "cooks and desk jockeys" wear dress blues.

Lets set the record straight here sonny...those cooks and desk jockeys wearing the black berets are US Army Soldiers....and are an important part of the team. You on the other hand are nothing but a still wet behind the ears kid living off the teat, so show some respect and STFU.

lol, it's an internet site, I seriously feel sorry for some of you, get so offended for no good reason. lmao it's sad

[SABER 2-3]

Fallen Angel wrote:I also agree it's just a stupid hat. But I can also understand for individuals to want to be seen as "elite". Now, for Marines, just being a Marine is enough for you to consider yourself as above and beyond the minimal requirements (whether that's true or not is for another place and time) which is why a Marine clerk looks exactly the same as a Recon Marine in uniform. But in the Army it's different obviously- unit pride comes before the pride of being a member of the Army.

If that were the case why do the Marines in Force Recon wear Jump wings and Scuba bubbles on their Class A, B, C and D uniforms. I have even seen un-authorized (but earned) insignia on uniforms in the form of Ranger tabs.

[angry cow]

Don't forget the rare specimen - the Orange beret - for those on duty in the Sinai.

http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Jun1998/980420-D-9880W-155.gif

[Uncle Sam]

Don't forget the rare specimen - the Orange beret - for those on duty in the Sinai.

http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Jun1998/980420-D-9880W-155.gif

I've been there... and it's "rust" colored... :lol:

[Tributal]

Cooks, admin, JAG, even the Chaplain, not only wear the Black beret but wear wings and the Red Beret if they are in an Airborne unit. Yeah.. even women. If a ditsy blond chick with just enough IQ to be a cook in the military passes jump school and goes to Ft Bragg... Red beret and wings.. she is a Paratrooper.Not to get in the whole "why should/shouldn't women be in the military"-argument - but there's a lot of male boneheads (the male equivalent of ditsy blonde) who manage to earn the same headgear, patches and pins. ;)