German cavalry

[Doomhammer]

Hi everyone

As I already pointed out I'm very interested in military history.

A time ago I saw a nice little documentary about two famous German cavalry leaders. I believe the two Freiherrs von Boeselager. Famous cavalry commanders, very competent in the field.
Not only because I am interested in military history, but also a passionated horseman, I wish to know more about the German cavalry. They used their cavalry more like a kind of mounted infantry and for special ops and they were very succesful on the eastfront.
Has anyone more info and pictures about these mounted units. Becaus German WWII propganda always showed the world a motorized army, but in fact a lot of German soldiers depended on horses for transport and quick reconnaissance.
Unfortunately this chapter in WWII seems to be a bit neglected. It feels like the cavalry was not important enough to do research about it.

So here are my questions about the cavalry. If ayone wishes to share pics/info about these negelected please post it.

[Indianer]

Yes it is kind of odd that the military that boasted their mechanized forces was one of the last to give up the horse cav.

Two personalties of WWII German Cav were checking out are the Fegelein brothers - Hermann and Waldemar. I've found both their stories very interesting. Considering they were both competitive horseman before the war. You will find their activities toward the end of the war very honorable. Hermann was in the bunker with Hitler and tried to rally everyone to abandon Hitler and his dreams - and was summarily executed for defeatism. Waldemar, captured Herman Goering for the allies...and refused to give him over (google him and Hermann Goering - the US Inf Div that captured Goering has a lengthy memoir about this event).

Hope that helps.

[Doomhammer]

Yes it is kind of odd that the military that boasted their mechanized forces was one of the last to give up the horse cav.

Two personalties of WWII German Cav were checking out are the Fegelein brothers - Hermann and Waldemar. I've found both their stories very interesting. Considering they were both competitive horseman before the war. You will find their activities toward the end of the war very honorable. Hermann was in the bunker with Hitler and tried to rally everyone to abandon Hitler and his dreams - and was summarily executed for defeatism. Waldemar, captured Herman Goering for the allies...and refused to give him over (google him and Hermann Goering - the US Inf Div that captured Goering has a lengthy memoir about this event).

Hope that helps.

Quite a sad story about those two Fegelein brothers. It seems that in the end most of the German officers were very realistic people. they knew what kind of fate was awaiting. They tried to avoid it, but nonetheless it resulted often in their deaths. A part we must not forget. Not all Germans were ruthless bastard. There were a lot of German soldiers who were very normal people like us: farmers, students, workers, poets, artists... But they obeyed their country as soldiers and of cousre their leaders.

As for the wehrmacht. It was a formidable army but they were used (or abused) by the nazi party members. As a historian I try to disconnect the bad influence of nazi-sphere from the battles the Wehrmacht soldiers fought. They fought with bravery and that is something, like their allied counterparts, we should respect. Although they fought for their nazi politicans, still they remained loyal soldiers of germany and did their best.

[Doomhammer]

Has anyone more info on the kind of operations the German cavalry conducted?

[Kitsune]

Indianer wrote: Yes it is kind of odd that the military that boasted their mechanized forces was one of the last to give up the horse cav.

It may be not as surprising as one migt think. Please remember that the German armed forces were under most severe restrictions after WWI. Rearmament only began in earnest from May 1935 on, and only then tanks, artillery, airforce asf were introduced. Up to that time, the Reichswehr (after May 1935 called "Wehrmacht" of course) had to cope with what was allowed...and since cavalry had been looked pretty outdated already in WWI, it was one of the things that were not forbidden by the limiting treaties imposed upon Germany. And that is most probably one of the reason why the German army featured comparatively prominent cavalry forces until this late a time.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

btw. on 23rd September 1939 an exceptional encounter took place: 1st batallion, 25th Polish Uhlan Regiment was moving towards the small town of Krasnobrod (today's Eastern Poland) when it's scouts discovered a German unit camping nearby. The batallion's commander decided to take advantage of the surprise and charge the Germans. The charge ended with a success and the Wehrmacht unit was broken. But then, on the top of a nearby hill... a German cavalry unit apeared. The Germans drew their sabres and started a charge. The Polish unit answered with the same move and the soldiers clashed on full speed just like the old style medieval cavalry. (The Germans were of course no match for the Polish cavalry and were defeated :)). It was probably the last classic cavalry battle in history.
The German unit which participated in the battle remains unidentified, it was either one of the sub-units of the 1st Cavalry Brigade or one of the divisional cavalry units.

[Blumenteufel]

One has to take internal army politics into consideration. Unlike now, the cavalry
was a major branch and had been the "fast unit" for centuries, a place the
Panzers were to take. General Heinz Guderian´s Memoirs give a good account of the problems he ran into when forming the Panzerwaffe. From the beginning he envisioned complete mobilized Infantry and Panzer Divisions with an order of battle he stated NEVER was realized during the whole war not only due to
lack of resources but due to resistance among not so progressive Generals who saw the Panzer only as an addition to the infantry and not in massed use like Guderian envisioned. Not being open to new doctrine was one reason to be against the ideas of "schneller Heinz" ( Quick Heinz ) but fear of ones own branch loosing importance was also a reason for resistance, especially for cavalry officers.
His storm towards the Canal and encirclement of the allied forces which lead to Dunkirk with his 3 Panzer Divisions under "Panzergruppe Kleist" was at last
Guderians best argument for the Panzer.

[Blumenteufel]

Went a little off topic there, but its closely related to cavalry :-) Just PM me Kitsune and I´ll try to find the time next week to look it up if you want.

[Smok]

btw. on 23rd September 1939 an exceptional encounter took place: 1st batallion, 25th Polish Uhlan Regiment was moving towards the small town of Krasnobrod (today's Eastern Poland) when it's scouts discovered a German unit camping nearby. The batallion's commander decided to take advantage of the surprise and charge the Germans. The charge ended with a success and the Wehrmacht unit was broken. But then, on the top of a nearby hill... a German cavalry unit apeared. The Germans drew their sabres and started a charge. The Polish unit answered with the same move and the soldiers clashed on full speed just like the old style medieval cavalry. (The Germans were of course no match for the Polish cavalry and were defeated :)). It was probably the last classic cavalry battle in history.
The German unit which participated in the battle remains unidentified, it was either one of the sub-units of the 1st Cavalry Brigade or one of the divisional cavalry units.

Charging with sabres agains polish cavalry is really foolish. It is the best way to commit suicide.

[WingedHussar]

Polish hussars were the most feard calvary unit in Europe. It was a suecide just to think about charging PolishHussars
http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/HowHussarFought.htm

Polish Hussars gave spanking to their enemies:bash: LOL

[Smok]

Yes. During some battles enemy started to flee when hussars started to charge. They even didn't have to fight because opponents were fleeing in all directions leaving guns, officers and even banners.
If I remember correctly hussars won all battles during 100 years.

[WingedHussar]

Yes. During some battles enemy started to flee when hussars started to charge. They even didn't have to fight because opponents were fleeing in all directions leaving guns, officers and even banners.
If I remember correctly hussars won all battles during 100 years.

Actually their winning strike was for 125 years from 1500 -1625
correct me if I am wrong

[Musashi]

Actually their winning strike was for 125 years from 1500 -1625
correct me if I am wrong

First of all, this topic is NOT about Polish cavalry. You can create a new one.
Secondly winged hussars were never the most numerous part of the Polish Army and there were some battles lost involving them, either (what does not change the fact it was the best cavalry in the world in 1500-1650, maybe even a bit longer).

[chuckster]

The Germans made a lot of use of horses both for cavalry units and to draw wagons and artillerey units during the war. Even though the Germans were known for their mechanized units, they did not have the industrial production to mechanize everything. In a lot of cases, German troops and supplies moved by horse. It's to my understanding most artillerey units were indeed drawn by horses.

[WingedHussar]

First of all, this topic is NOT about Polish cavalry. You can create a new one.
Secondly winged hussars were never the most numerous part of the Polish Army and there were some battles lost involving them, either (what does not change the fact it was the best cavalry in the world in 1500-1650, maybe even a bit longer).

I agree with you we are back on German Calvary

[gaijinsamurai]

Interesting about Hermann Fegelein. I had the impression his demise was a bit more pathetic than heroic. The picture I had was of him drunk and trying frantically to save himself from the advancing Soviets. Even the fact that he was married to Eva Braun's sister didn't save him from a firing squad.

[towelie]

He was drunk as **** when he was attending his court martial, and I think his cavalry division commited some war crimes in Russia.

[Smok]

First of all, this topic is NOT about Polish cavalry. You can create a new one.
Secondly winged hussars were never the most numerous part of the Polish Army and there were some battles lost involving them, either (what does not change the fact it was the best cavalry in the world in 1500-1650, maybe even a bit longer).

German cavalry is useless and not worth to talk about p-) . We can talk about german tanks or polish cavalry.

[Doomhammer]

German cavalry is useless and not worth to talk about p-) . We can talk about german tanks or polish cavalry.

Why do you think it is useless to talk about?
From what I know the german cavalry units were very effective on the Russian front, instead of the german panzers who needed oil and who became stuck i nthe mud while horses didn't. Besides the Germans used nearly all horses they could find in the end of the war because there was no fuel for the vehicles or most vehicles were destroyed.

Personally the concept of cavalry using as mounted infantry or reconnaissance units , is very effective if you need to find means of mobility in areas that are rather large for normal infantry manoeuvres. You could gallop from one battlezone to another without tiring your men.

[Smok]

Haven't you seen that -> p-) icon?

[ClydeFrog]

German cavalry is useless and not worth to talk about p-) . We can talk about german tanks or polish cavalry.
So German cavalry=every Polish unit besides cavalry? p-)

Okay enough of that, but you had it coming.

[Smok]

Not quite. Poles were always superior wariors p-) Even the worst polish army cook is better then all soldiers from the whole world. p-)

[Musashi]

Not quite. Poles were always superior wariors p-) Even the worst polish army cook is better then all soldiers from the whole world. p-)
Your posts are rather boring, than funny :roll:

[Mastermind]

Started nicely....ends silly...I'm gone......MM