H&K enthusiasts?

[Kerpan]

I'm a huge fan of Heckler&Koch and I know i am definately not the only one. So, if you are a die hard fan of H&K, please post ure fave H&K weapon (with a pic if ya can) so we can discuss and debate.

For me:
Classic G3 (7.62x51-Nato){is this pic an HK91 or am i crazy?}
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/luvnplster/G3.jpg

but I would have liked to have seen this replace the M16's:
G41 (5.56x45-Nato)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/luvnplster/g41.jpg
-It's 5.56 Nato
-Uses M16 mags
-Automatic Fire (though i had no prob with the burst only)
-Reliability of a G3

[Anthony91]

H&K USP Standard .45

http://www.hkpro.com/USP45white.jpg
H&K 417 5.56mm Rifle
http://www.hkpro.com/416417wm.jpg

And my true fav, The H&K G36 Series
http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36ccomparison.jpg

[LaoSexMachine]

Nothing wrong with the M16. I carried it for 4 years and didn't have any problem with it.

[Hispeed1]

A-Dawg, nice pics. But those H&K rifles are 2 different ones-
Left pic-H&K 417 (.308)
Right pic-H&K 416 (5.56)

[Kerpan]

Nothing wrong with the M16. I carried it for 4 years and didn't have any problem with it.

Yeah, at the time the G41 was proposed we didn't need a new service rifle, but all I can really compare to are weapons i've fired and i have tried both an AR-15 and a Hk33 knockoff of sometype (not sure who made it) but i prefer the Hk's.

[Anthony91]

A-Dawg, nice pics. But those H&K rifles are 2 different ones-
Left pic-H&K 417 (.308)
Right pic-H&K 416 (5.56)

Yeah I know, I just wanted a cool pic. :)

[gaijinsamurai]

When I return to the US next year (after being "in exile" for 5 years), one of the first things I'm going to buy is an HK USP Compact .45.

[MEGR]

Only HK I've fired was an MP5. I liked it alot..It was no AR-15, but it was fun as hell to shoot!

[Kerpan]

yea, the AR was nice and all but the HK was my preference

[Danger Close]

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5/smg2/smg2-16.gif

[Kerpan]

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5/smg2/smg2-16.gif

Is that SMG1 or 2? Whichever it is it's nice! Good choice, somethin unique!

[Danger Close]

That would be the II my good man!

[Kerpan]

That would be the II my good man!
nice, the difference is in the sights rite? It's like the precursor to the MP7 sorta... atleast the stock

[Danger Close]

Kerpan:

Here's a great H&K Website. It explains to you about the Rear Sight apature of the SMG2 and the other varying features probably better then I could at this minute- Enjoy!

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5/smg2/smg2.htm

[Kerpan]

Kerpan:

Here's a great H&K Website. It explains to you about the Rear Sight apature of the SMG2 and the other varying features probably better then I could at this minute- Enjoy!

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5/smg2/smg2.htm
yeah, that ones pretty good but i've been using
http://www.hkpro.com

there hk fetish goes way further than mine!!!

[Kerpan]

Kerpan:

Here's a great H&K Website. It explains to you about the Rear Sight apature of the SMG2 and the other varying features probably better then I could at this minute- Enjoy!

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/mp5/smg2/smg2.htm

wait, i know how to use the H&K drum-site!!! it's the one on the HK21 that screws with me... it's different and odd. It's the SMGI that has the HK21 style rite?

[Danger Close]

Roger that!

[Kerpan]

what do u guys think of the CAWS?
It would've been nice but it was "too deadly" for the U.S. to adopt
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/luvnplster/caws.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/luvnplster/cawcaw.jpg

[Danger Close]

Well they must have changed their tune because I read that the US Army is looking at trialing these puppies for urban ops.

http://vidsearch.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoid=801833419&Mytoken=69342BF9-674C-9A54-6FD6116DCAC10A054394078

[Kerpan]

Well they must have changed their tune because I read that the US Army is looking at trialing these puppies for urban ops.

http://vidsearch.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoid=801833419&Mytoken=69342BF9-674C-9A54-6FD6116DCAC10A054394078

hmm, is this source reliable? idk u kno... i see myspace and i have to wonder.

[scrybe]

That seems very unnecessary. Unless my eyes deceive me (which alcohol tends to facilitate), that is a full auto 12 gauge shotgun. But, don't the US Marines already field the Benelli XM1014/M4 Super 90? I would think that would be the more likely option.

[Icarus1]

That seems very unnecessary. Unless my eyes deceive me (which alcohol tends to facilitate), that is a full auto 12 gauge shotgun. But, don't the US Marines already field the Benelli XM1014/M4 Super 90? I would think that would be the more likely option.

Isn't it semi auto, also the benelli? Wouldn't make much sense to field a full auto shotgun...

[Swedish Chef]

The CAWS is select fire.

[SMGLee]

My favorite remain the HK 416, HK G41, G53, MP5, and MP5/40.

let's see....

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/MP5.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/MP5SD.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/MP5k.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/CLT-022.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/group1.jpg

[TacoDelRio]

Pfffffff, Mr. Lee posting his guns.... ;)

I'd have to say an MP5 in 10mm Auto. Never fired nor seen one, but holy crap, that thing would own in boar hunting! :):):):)

[MEGR]

Oh, btw. Here's a pic of the HK416 in Iraq. This was found by somebody on AR15.com.

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-06-29-094002.jpg

[GoSka37]

So they're fielding it now? Or is it just a field -test-?

either way i say...

HK 416
HK 417
HK UMP .45
HK G36C
HK MP7
HK G3
HK Mark .23
HK USP .45
HK P3000
HK P2000
HK 45
HK VP70

[Kerpan]

Oh, btw. Here's a pic of the HK416 in Iraq. This was found by somebody on AR15.com.

I'd bet it makes a fool out of the M4's?

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-06-29-094002.jpg

[SMGLee]

I'd bet it makes a fool out of the M4's?

http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/2006/CSA-2006-06-29-094002.jpg


Why, Just because it is a HK? piston system does increase long term durability especially if suppressor is used, but make a fool out of the M4....not likely.

I like my HKs, but I don't think they are the be all and do all wonder weapon that some people tend to believe....HK has not made a really good weapon since the MP5, and the most promising HK416 is an American design taking a bit further with a system that was already been played with and used by many early on. even the 416 was not a true German brain child... it was born out of the American design team which include the well respected Larry Vickers.

here is a few more....

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/DCP_0569.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/DCP_0544.jpg

[Kerpan]

Why, Just because it is a HK? piston system does increase long term durability especially if suppressor is used, but make a fool out of the M4....not likely.

I like my HKs, but I don't think they are the be all and do all wonder weapon that some people tend to believe....HK has not made a really good weapon since the MP5, and the most promising HK416 is an American design taking a bit further with a system that was already been played with and used by many early on. even the 416 was not a true German brain child... it was born out of the American design team which include the well respected Larry Vickers.

here is a few more....

never said it had to be german, just HK
yeah, it's probably not much better than the M4 but I can hope...
Still, is there a point to make a modified M4 if the US is already designing a new rifle?

[SMGLee]

never said it had to be german, just HK
yeah, it's probably not much better than the M4 but I can hope...
Still, is there a point to make a modified M4 if the US is already designing a new rifle?
My point was that the HK416 is not an true HK design. It was actually developed by Larry Vickers while he was at HK. HK was hot and heavy on the XM8 and did not really want to push the 416. now that the XM8 is dead...really dead, it is reviving the 416 and hope it will be its next money maker.

Even the much hailed HK45 is not as good as the Smith Wesson M&P, and that is coming from the guy that is very well respected in the industry.

Truth is the 416 is an amazing weapon. with well over 500 416s in harms way with the Army XXXXXXXGroups, it is getting the most sincere form of baptism.

[punchinout]

Even the much hailed HK45 is not as good as the Smith Wesson M&P, and that is coming from the guy that is very well respected in the industry.

Truth is the 416 is an amazing weapon. with well over 500 416s in harms way with the Army XXXXXXXGroups, it is getting the most sincere form of baptism.


Interesting....SMGLee you always seem to be in the "know" when it comes to the latest stuff in the firearms industry, i'd ask you what you do...but i don't want some crazy Delta dude crashin through my window tonight because i asked too many questions. When i went to pick up my 1911 a few weeks ago, the owner of the gunshop tried to sell me a Smith & Wesson M&P. heard some great thigns about them.

My favorite HK's

UMP
MK23
The MP5 family.
HK416

[Durandal]

what do u guys think of the CAWS?
It would've been nice but it was "too deadly" for the U.S. to adopt

Yeah, that's why they tried to adopt their own. My uncle designed the one for AAI back in the 80s...

They were not adopted because of the total round carried and recoil issues...and of course the cost to produce.

[Durandal]

never said it had to be german, just HK
yeah, it's probably not much better than the M4 but I can hope...
Still, is there a point to make a modified M4 if the US is already designing a new rifle?

The U.S. is always designing a new rifle...in the 80s alone there were tax dollars spent on no less than 12.

No different now.

Just to clarify, the U.S. military no longer designs its own weapons.

[ClydeFrog]

HK has not made a really good weapon since the MP5.Uhh sorry, but what about the USP series? It's at least "really good". You can argue about the G36 but it still is good. Besides if you made a weapon as famous as the MP5 it's always hard to top that. What has Colt made over the past 50 years since it bought the M16? No real big hit.

It was actually developed by Larry Vickers while he was at HK.And he basically took the gas piston of the G36 and cramped it into an M4 upper receiver no? ;)

[Kerpan]

My point was that the HK416 is not an true HK design. It was actually developed by Larry Vickers while he was at HK. HK was hot and heavy on the XM8 and did not really want to push the 416. now that the XM8 is dead...really dead, it is reviving the 416 and hope it will be its next money maker.

Even the much hailed HK45 is not as good as the Smith Wesson M&P, and that is coming from the guy that is very well respected in the industry.

Truth is the 416 is an amazing weapon. with well over 500 416s in harms way with the Army XXXXXXXGroups, it is getting the most sincere form of baptism.

wait, so back there when i said that the 416 is probably better than the M4's you told me they were no different. When I admitted that i was just a fan of the 416 because of the HK logo you told me that it was actually a reliable and functional rifle. WTF? Do you just want to argue with me?

[Christophe]

[QUOTE=MEGR]Oh, btw. Here's a pic of the HK416 in Iraq. This was found by somebody on AR15.com.


PERSEC ? I don´t think the guy with the 416 is part of the 101.

[Durandal]

Uhh sorry, but what about the USP series? It's at least "really good".

Christ...its a mid-line, reliable pistol same as ANY Sig, Beretta, Browning, IMI, CZ, Glock, or mid-level 1911.

H&K made a name for themselves. A good name. The USP is NOT a Wilson though.

There's nothing FANCY about it, it functions pretty much the same way any other pistol does and a guy can shoot just as well with a USP as any other pistol the same level of quality. Its manufactured en mass using standard steel and plastics on an assembly line worked by employees...or whatever the German equivalent...not gunsmiths.

If anything, H&K has been doing harm to themselves by:

A) Not releasing more non-pistol firearms into the civilian market.

B) Turning out a half dozen lines of mid-grade pistols in less than 9 years to a market they already saturated to what I think is their max penetration.

[LaoSexMachine]

wait, so back there when i said that the 416 is probably better than the M4's you told me they were no different. When I admitted that i was just a fan of the 416 because of the HK logo you told me that it was actually a reliable and functional rifle. WTF? Do you just want to argue with me?

Don't argue with the Oracle.

[Icarus1]

The Zurich Airport Police sold their accurized G33 marksman rifles, with all the equipment. Damn, believe, they are the hell of a fun to shoot at 300m. Great stuff. Nearly shot the whole HK family, also the new ones like G36 and UMP in .45, sadly never shot a 416.

[Kerpan]

Don't argue with the Oracle.
wtf is he trying to say though?

[LaoSexMachine]

wtf is he trying to say though?

He said it was an amazing weapon but doesn't give the M4 a run for it's money.

[Kerpan]

He said it was an amazing weapon but doesn't give the M4 a run for it's money.

oh well, i'm not a very big fan of the M4 so maybe i'm too biased to make a good point. Nothin wrong with the M16's though.

[LaoSexMachine]

oh well, i'm not a very big fan of the M4 so maybe i'm too biased to make a good point. Nothin wrong with the M16's though.

Have you have that much experience with the 416?

[Kerpan]

Have you have that much experience with the 416?
neither M4 nor 416
just goin by what i read and here and i've heard they both serve there purposes.

[Durandal]

neither M4 nor 416
just goin by what i read and here and i've heard they both serve there purposes.

Could have guessed that in one...

[Kerpan]

Could have guessed that in one...
eh, i never said i was an expert. just givin my opinion

[Kerpan]

Well they must have changed their tune because I read that the US Army is looking at trialing these puppies for urban ops.

http://vidsearch.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&n=2&videoid=801833419&Mytoken=69342BF9-674C-9A54-6FD6116DCAC10A054394078

damn, i was lookin at some random shotguns and this is actually an Atchinsson AA-12. CAWS has no chance to go into production :cantbeli:

[SMGLee]

eh, i never said i was an expert. just givin my opinion

Kerpan, May I reply to your statements....

This is what you said initially....

I'd bet it makes a fool out of the M4's?

I replied by saying...



Why, Just because it is a HK? piston system does increase long term durability especially if suppressor is used, but make a fool out of the M4....not likely.

You said.......

never said it had to be german, just HK
yeah, it's probably not much better than the M4 but I can hope...
Still, is there a point to make a modified M4 if the US is already designing a new rifle?

Then I said..after your response.....

Truth is the 416 is an amazing weapon. with well over 500 416s in harms way with the Army XXXXXXXGroups, it is getting the most sincere form of baptism.

You bet the 416 wold make a fool out of the M4...

I said No.

then you said the 416 probably is not mcu better then the M4..

I reply with the 416 is an upgrade on a old pig.. a lovely pig no less but still old. there is only a few ways you can spin this pig and we have done as much as what this pig can deliver. The current M4 is a great weapon systme and the longest serving rifle in the Us history but no matter how great anything can be, it has flews. some of the flews was addressed by the 416. I am not going back and forth on how I feel about the 416, the truth is the 416 is not a revlotuionary design, it is just another evolution of the original which is still serving the armed forces with reliability, durability and honor. 416 is amazing in ways that a soldier can appreicate. It is functional in theCQB-R form when using a suppressor, it is more reliable in desert enviroment when you just don't have time to clean your suppressor mounted 416 that has been gunning tango all day long. 416 is better in some ways, but it is not making the M4 into a fool.

If the Gov't is going to adapt a new platform, it might as well be the new SCAR, a brand new design with more capability.

I am just trying to make a point, a point with some actually field experiences. my experience with the M4 is vast and I have used the 416 in demo, not as much as the M4 but enough rounds down range to know the system's ability. I am trying to make a factual statement, not based on books and magazines I read from local food mart.

Sorry if this stings a bit, but truth hurts.

[Kerpan]

Kerpan, May I reply to your statements....

This is what you said initially....


I replied by saying...




You said.......


Then I said..after your response.....


You bet the 416 wold make a fool out of the M4...

I said No.

then you said the 416 probably is not mcu better then the M4..

I reply with the 416 is an upgrade on a old pig.. a lovely pig no less but still old. there is only a few ways you can spin this pig and we have done as much as what this pig can deliver. The current M4 is a great weapon systme and the longest serving rifle in the Us history but no matter how great anything can be, it has flews. some of the flews was addressed by the 416. I am not going back and forth on how I feel about the 416, the truth is the 416 is not a revlotuionary design, it is just another evolution of the original which is still serving the armed forces with reliability, durability and honor. 416 is amazing in ways that a soldier can appreicate. It is functional in theCQB-R form when using a suppressor, it is more reliable in desert enviroment when you just don't have time to clean your suppressor mounted 416 that has been gunning tango all day long. 416 is better in some ways, but it is not making the M4 into a fool.

If the Gov't is going to adapt a new platform, it might as well be the new SCAR, a brand new design with more capability.

I am just trying to make a point, a point with some actually field experiences. my experience with the M4 is vast and I have used the 416 in demo, not as much as the M4 but enough rounds down range to know the system's ability. I am trying to make a factual statement, not based on books and magazines I read from local food mart.

Sorry if this stings a bit, but truth hurts.

yeah, actually i don't go to any food marts but i can see ure point. I'm just an old Hk whore who would like to think that somethin with an Hk stamped on can outperform everything else.

Plus, i don't really like the 5.56 round anyways. My choice would be 417 but to avoid another arguement i will say that the 5.56 nato round serves its purpose and that 7.62 is my preference but not necessarily better.

[SMGLee]

yeah, actually i don't go to any food marts but i can see ure point. I'm just an old Hk whore who would like to think that somethin with an Hk stamped on can outperform everything else.

Plus, i don't really like the 5.56 round anyways. My choice would be 417 but to avoid another arguement i will say that the 5.56 nato round serves its purpose and that 7.62 is my preference but not necessarily better.

Not everything stamped HK are good... trust me. HK made some good stuff, but lately they have turn out turds except the 416 and the maybe the HK45..

7.62 is a good platform, HK417 is near adaption by a northern Europe nation.
but for US war fighter, the 5.56 is the standard cartridge, since 7.62 serve only limited specialzed role.

[ClydeFrog]

Christ...its a mid-line, reliable pistol same as ANY Sig, Beretta, Browning, IMI, CZ, Glock, or mid-level 1911.

H&K made a name for themselves. A good name.Yeah and now maybe take a look what I wrote up there. I said "really good". That's all they are: really good. I didn't say outstanding or revolutionary or anything like that.

But SMGLee said they hadn't made any really good firearms since the MP5 which is simply not true. Sure, no other made as much of an impact as the MP5, but that's a standard that is hard to top.

HK is a well-respected firearms fabricant. They make a variety of firearms and nearly all of them are good. That's what gave them a good name. Nothing else.

[Durandal]

yeah, actually i don't go to any food marts but i can see ure point. I'm just an old Hk whore who would like to think that somethin with an Hk stamped on can outperform everything else.

Plus, i don't really like the 5.56 round anyways. My choice would be 417 but to avoid another arguement i will say that the 5.56 nato round serves its purpose and that 7.62 is my preference but not necessarily better.

Just out of curiosity...

How many guns have you shot?

How many guns do you own or have been issued to you as a result of military experience?

[SMGLee]

But SMGLee said they hadn't made any really good firearms since the MP5 which is simply not true. Sure, no other made as much of an impact as the MP5, but that's a standard that is hard to top.

For the sake of discussion, name one firearm that HK made that is as good or better then the MP5.


G36?
UMP?
MP7?
G43?


I have to give you the AG36 which was a nice evolutionary design from the older launcher is a nice item and also the GMG.

And they have a decent pistol in the USP and its varients...still.. I don't see a MP5 like design... nothing that makes HK reign superme.

[Durandal]

For the sake of discussion, name one firearm that HK made that is as good or better then the MP5.

I'm on your side here, but I might take a leap and suggest the P7.

[SMGLee]

I'm on your side here, but I might take a leap and suggest the P7.

I give the P7 a niche. I have one, it isn't my end all and be all fighting gun, but it is a very revolutionary design that I just had to have one(M13).. much like the Beretta 92, i just had to have one.

P7 heat up like a bitch when you fire more then one mag(M13) and it is top heavy inside a holster. but when you fire it, it is a very nicely designed pistol, low center of gravity and fast action and trigger. I like it.

see I am not a HK basher... I am even a registered HKPro member with too much time on my hands... :)

[JTAR7242]

I like mine...

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/630/788/26289.jpg

[SMGLee]

I like mine...

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/630/788/26289.jpg

USP is nice but it is not a dominate piece as the MP5 was back in the good ole days.

USP has rival that are just as good... Glock, SW M&P, so on so forth. for CQB pistol... nothing beats a well tuned 1911.

I own 3 HK pistols but I shoot none of them as my defensive weapon except for my USP Expert in 40. that is by my bed side with a Insight M6x and a 16 rds magazine. the P7M13 and the USP tactical is just keepers.

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/CLT-053.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/CLT-066.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/large/CLT-057.jpg

[GoSka37]

I like mine...

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/630/788/26289.jpg

The HK or that BEAST of a doughnut?!

[Hispeed1]

SMG-how did you get a threaded USP tactical? You're in Cali right?

[TacoDelRio]

SMG-how did you get a threaded USP tactical? You're in Cali right?

DO NOT QUESTION MR. LEE! p-)

I could never get the hang of the P7. I might buy a USP .45 if they do't release and SB15-ify the HK45.

[6ft4]

My favourite H&K are the G36 Series and MP5 Series

[SMGLee]

DO NOT QUESTION MR. LEE! p-)

I could never get the hang of the P7. I might buy a USP .45 if they do't release and SB15-ify the HK45.

I have no problem answering legal questions, I keep my stuff on the up and up... lol.

Bro... HK45 is okay, wait for the SW M&P45, that is one amazoing weapon. no kidding.. trust me.


SMG-how did you get a threaded USP tactical? You're in Cali right?

You can one register the weapon as an assault weapon or have residency out side of California. I for one has a place in Northern Arizona.

Most of my guns were purchased prior to Kalifornia shutting down the system. so to many it seems like impossible to obtain those type of guns in Kalifornia, but one time, Kalifornia was a pretty nice place to live.

[ClydeFrog]

For the sake of discussion, name one firearm that HK made that is as good or better then the MP5.


G36?
UMP?
MP7?
G43?


I have to give you the AG36 which was a nice evolutionary design from the older launcher is a nice item and also the GMG.

And they have a decent pistol in the USP and its varients...still.. I don't see a MP5 like design... nothing that makes HK reign superme.
G43 doesn't really belong up there or do you know anything I don't ;)

Like I said they make good guns, not über-weapons.

Why does everybody expect that from them? I know the HK-fanboys are annoying in times, but everytime one of these threads pops up people go "nah HK ain't that great" making it sound like they had nothing going for them besides the MP5.
Colt has "their" M16 and the old 1911... it pretty much goes down from there. FN okay, they have quite some big hits... but they have their share of mild to big failures too: the CAL or the F2000 for example.

Why is it that people jump on HK for every gun that's "just good" and not revolutionary?

[SMGLee]

G43 doesn't really belong up there or do you know anything I don't ;)

Like I said they make good guns, not über-weapons.

Why does everybody expect that from them? I know the HK-fanboys are annoying in times, but everytime one of these threads pops up people go "nah HK ain't that great" making it sound like they had nothing going for them besides the MP5.
Colt has "their" M16 and the old 1911... it pretty much goes down from there. FN okay, they have quite some big hits... but they have their share of mild to big failures too: the CAL or the F2000 for example.

Why is it that people jump on HK for every gun that's "just good" and not revolutionary?

I don't understand why you consider MG43 not part of the group.


As far as HK bashing, if you look at it the other way, there is a lot of HK kool-aid lovers that thinks everything HK is great. and the origianl poster of this thread basically stated this theory.

HK has MP5 which was one of the most dominate weapon system for decades, I just made the comparison since most of the weapon they made are only good, not great...

take it easy, if you read my post, there is plenty of praises for HK.

Colt has neither the M16 nor the 1911 anylonger... Colt has the M4, FN has the M16, the 1911 markt has moved away from Colt long ago.

FN has its hits..MAG/M240, Minimi/M249, and I believe FN SCAR will be a dominate weapon system much like the MP5 in the past... only time will tell.

FN lost ground on their pistol except the hi-power, and the P90 and F2000, they are all misses.

[ClydeFrog]

You wrote G43 up there, which would be this one:
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/kar43sharf.jpg

But I knew you meant the Mg43 (now MG4) anyway so I guess I can spare the nitpicking.

[SMGLee]

But I knew you meant the Mg43 (now MG4) anyway so I guess I can spare the nitpicking.

Thank you...

[Durandal]

Colt has "their" M16 and the old 1911... it pretty much goes down from there.

Not at all, Colt has a crap load of fine weapons...

Like the Model 1903 Hammerless pistol.

A huge selection of Revolvers from the day.


FN okay, they have quite some big hits... but they have their share of mild to big failures too: the CAL or the F2000 for example.

A lot of failures are also do to a fine weapon simply NOT being picked up by any Military/LE/Gov agencies. The gun could rock but sales of the same firearm make it or break it.


Why is it that people jump on HK for every gun that's "just good" and not revolutionary?

Because you got some kid joining the forum who does not own (or have been issued) these weapons talking about them like he both knows what the hell he is talking about...

They are simply ONE of many that design and manufacture a decent line of products and have done EXTREMELY well at marketing themselves.

Hell, I'll argue that their marketing and sales departments are far more important than any of the firearms they manufacture post-MP5.

[ClydeFrog]

They (Colt) may have some fine weapons, but which besides the M4 and M16 have seen much success lately or had a considerable influence on others? That may or may not have to do with the quality of the guns, but still, if they were really great they'd be successful too. If you look at the Colt LE/military page, there's not a single weapon on there that isn't a direct derivate of the AR15.
I admit my knowledge on the huge civilian market in the US is limited, so maybe their revolvers and pistols are big hits there, but then I doubt that the civilian gun market is really as good an indicator for what is a good weapon than LE or military.

And about the HK marketing. Their marketing is actually total crap. Look at how huge the interest in the HK416 is... and what does HK do? Not sell it to anyone. Quite some LE agencies in the US have adopted some variant of the G36 and what does HK do? They nolonger import these into the US. Talk about crappy marketing. HK is a prime example.

To me the reason HK is successful (so far) is not because they make outstanding weapons, but because they always make good weapons. People know if they buy HK they are at least on par with nearly all others. That and because they cover nearly the full range of small arms.

[Durandal]

And about the HK marketing. Their marketing is actually total crap.

Oh, now it is, for certain, especially their loss of the civilian market by axing anything that isn't a pistol or a 30K shotgun. I am talking up to maybe 5 years ago.


To me the reason HK is successful (so far) is not because they make outstanding weapons, but because they always make good weapons.

That is my point...though I would change "always" to "usually".

H&K's hay day was in the 1960s and 70s if you ask me and they have been riding it ever since. Sure, they turn out some good things over the years, but the 60s and 70s were the years they TRULY made their name known.