On Permskiis request, video of FDF

[mustamato]

Hilarious! It was sooo emotional with them brave men and machine guns. I almost expected Eric Cartman or other South Park characters to show up.

yep,
JEALOUS

Does it hurt that Finland can't make videos like that ? If they did, lol could you imagine what joke it would be?

America's military is mighty powerful, and they have all the rights to make videos of their warriors.

What would the Finish version be like? A bunch of blond mommy boys with pink cheeks playing in the snow with your Swedish boyfriends Ace of Base soundtrack.

rofl You don´t know how right you were:

http://www2.mil.fi/varusmies/images/expatriate2.jpg

http://www2.mil.fi/arkisto/video/mil_yes4.avi (right-click, save as, 50 mb, DivX)

[Elmo]

Man, that was funny!

Not too emotional, though. Rather comical...not intended I think, those guys were really showing off for the camera.

[StukaJr]

Very nice summer camp video - I'll ask my mom if I can go! woot Do they issue those bright blue speedos and can I keep them after?

[UkrainianAmerican]

WOW THAT **** IS HILARIOUS!
Stalin had to be a freaking genius not to conquer Finalnd in 2 hours.

[mustamato]

WOW THAT **** IS HILARIOUS!
Stalin had to be a freaking genius not to conquer Finalnd in 2 hours.

I guess the old saying is true then, one Finn is as good as 11 Russians, it
only becomes a problem when the 11th comes. But there will not be a 11th,
but that´s another story.

And the video is comical yes, they are all soo happy. But RussianAmerican
doesn´t have a second of military experience so what do he know.

[UkrainianAmerican]

WOW THAT **** IS HILARIOUS!
Stalin had to be a freaking genius not to conquer Finalnd in 2 hours.

I guess the old saying is true then, one Finn is as good as 11 Russians, it
only becomes a problem when the 11th comes. But there will not be a 11th,
but that´s another story.

And the video is comical yes, they are all soo happy. But RussianAmerican
doesn´t have a second of military experience so what do he know.
My military experience doesn't go further then shooting a bunch of guns at a shooting range (and reading this forum hehe), but I know posers when I see them.

[mustamato]

but I know posers when I see them.

Isn´t it the same in Russian then as well? Because they also have conscription.

[Dalleer]

WOW THAT **** IS HILARIOUS!
Stalin had to be a freaking genius not to conquer Finalnd in 2 hours.

I guess the old saying is true then, one Finn is as good as 11 Russians, it
only becomes a problem when the 11th comes. But there will not be a 11th,
but that´s another story.

And the video is comical yes, they are all soo happy. But RussianAmerican
doesn´t have a second of military experience so what do he know.
My military experience doesn't go further then shooting a bunch of guns at a shooting range (and reading this forum hehe), but I know posers when I see them.

With that in mind, I wouldn't say a goddamn thing about someone else's country until I would have some real experience under my belt.

[UkrainianAmerican]

WOW THAT **** IS HILARIOUS!
Stalin had to be a freaking genius not to conquer Finalnd in 2 hours.

I guess the old saying is true then, one Finn is as good as 11 Russians, it
only becomes a problem when the 11th comes. But there will not be a 11th,
but that´s another story.

And the video is comical yes, they are all soo happy. But RussianAmerican
doesn´t have a second of military experience so what do he know.
My military experience doesn't go further then shooting a bunch of guns at a shooting range (and reading this forum hehe), but I know posers when I see them.

With that in mind, I wouldn't say a goddamn thing about someone else's country until I would have some real experience under my belt. :P

[Marmot1]

nice vid!!! :lol:

[George W. Bush]

Thanks for wasting 15 minutes of my day.

[StukaJr]

I guess the old saying is true then, one Finn is as good as 11 Russians, it
only becomes a problem when the 11th comes. But there will not be a 11th,
but that´s another story.

May have been true in 1939 - some valueble lessons learnt might I add. Didn't work as well in 1944 though.

As for the training in the video - it does seem extremely soft on the recruits - how about using real barb wire instead of cord? The recruit is brushing his back against the "barb wire" as he runs through it... I've seen tougher in US JROTC :|

[Ichhabe]

I guess the old saying is true then, one Finn is as good as 11 Russians, it
only becomes a problem when the 11th comes. But there will not be a 11th,
but that´s another story.

May have been true in 1939 - some valueble lessons learnt might I add. Didn't work as well in 1944 though.

As for the training in the video - it does seem extremely soft on the recruits - how about using real barb wire instead of cord? The recruit is brushing his back against the "barb wire" as he runs through it... I've seen tougher in US JROTC :|

rofl

[anonymous individual]

rofl

[5jumpchump]

Dude , that's 550 cord ! Very abrasive against soft skin - show some respect ! rofl

[Dalleer]

Ehm, I bet that everyone who's done their service in the FDF can agree that the "propaganda" that we saw in this one and the reality are indeed something very different.

I doubt that the people are that nice enough to you during the time when you go out and collect your equipment like that in the real life, for an example.

The woman waiting on the line in that video, "Uhh, I think my M/91 jacket is not my size!"

Those videos make it seem really sweet, now don't they...

Personally I'm "**** scared", but I've been told by some sources that it will wear off after a few mornings once you're there.

That video is quite far from the truth, and nothing can prepare you for the "first morning", they say.

[pipaz]

heh people just like to talk like thay know everything...yah thats funny..not :backhand:

we should have someone comment who was in there and done things, even better have someone from jegers, i wonder how are there special forces anyways :)

besides good vid

[Russian Texan]

Why there is so much old soviet equipment in the FDF? How did you acquire it?
I mean, Finland was on the "other side of the barricades"...

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Cool video, kinda "made for tv" though....

[Elmo]

Why there is so much old soviet equipment in the FDF? How did you acquire it?
I mean, Finland was on the "other side of the barricades"...

Negative. Was neutral, balancing between the two. They just bought that gear.

[wreck]

Why there is so much old soviet equipment in the FDF? How did you acquire it?
I mean, Finland was on the "other side of the barricades"...

Russia has big debts to finland and few times we have taken equipment as compensation, naturally some of the stuff was just bought instead of western gear during the cold war to not piss of russia. Some of the gear is also ex-DDR.

Nowadays all the equipment comes from west, best example would be the leos and cvs.

[0#256]

My military experience doesn't go further then shooting a bunch of guns at a shooting range (and reading this forum hehe), but I know posers when I see them.
I've spent one year in FDF, 362 days + 13 days on refresher courses, so that makes alot more military experience than you American wannabe! :slap:
I served in a military police unit here in the capital of Finland and I say that our training was very competitive. After watching some videos of russian specal forces fooling around in Chechen, my point of view just got stronger.
So RussianAmerican, I advice you and everybody else with 0 military expercience to STFU on these matters. :backhand:

About the video.
There was some old stuff and even older than that. I saw some of those clips when I was at my draft in '98.
Maybe we don't have Hollywood on our side making five star propaganda, but has propvideos ever really made better soldiers?

[Ichhabe]

Why there is so much old soviet equipment in the FDF? How did you acquire it?
I mean, Finland was on the "other side of the barricades"...

Russia has big debts to finland and few times we have taken equipment as compensation, naturally some of the stuff was just bought instead of western gear during the cold war to not piss of russia. Some of the gear is also ex-DDR.

Nowadays all the equipment comes from west, best example would be the leos and cvs.

Or if we sold some state of the art computers to them, we got back $ 700.000,...in jam. Plum jam. And belive me, that is a lot of jam. rofl rofl

[n_shanygin]

HAHAHAHHAHAA rofl

[mustamato]

As for the training in the video - it does seem extremely soft on the recruits - how about using real barb wire instead of cord? The recruit is brushing his back against the "barb wire" as he runs through it... I've seen tougher in US JROTC :|

rofl

Good for you. That´s a make real man out of you.
And I agree with the other dudes, there is a difference
between propaganda and real life.

[n_shanygin]

:lol:

[Russian Texan]

My military experience doesn't go further then shooting a bunch of guns at a shooting range (and reading this forum hehe), but I know posers when I see them.
I've spent one year in FDF, 362 days + 13 days on refresher courses, so that makes alot more military experience than you American wannabe! :slap:
I served in a military police unit here in the capital of Finland and I say that our training was very competitive.
Competitive to what/whom? Did you recieve any training from some other country's military, if not your statement is based on....?

After watching some videos of russian specal forces fooling around in Chechen, my point of view just got stronger.
May I ask which videos are you referring to? I have been looking for some for a long time but without any success, would you please provide a link?


So RussianAmerican, I advice you and everybody else with 0 military expercience to STFU on these matters. :backhand:
Did you participate in any combat? No? Then you do not have military experience either, you have "barracks" experience...
I know a guy who have spent almost 2 years of his service in a food storage facility but he got to wear camouflage though...

About the video.
There was some old stuff and even older than that. I saw some of those clips when I was at my draft in '98.
Maybe we don't have Hollywood on our side making five star propaganda, but has propvideos ever really made better soldiers?
No, but the mentality does: the one can't fight like a tiger if he was raised like a "pussy-cat"

[mustamato]

May I ask which videos are you referring to? I have been looking for some for a long time but without any success, would you please provide a link?

Videos taped by Ruskies in Chechnya is used by some Finnish military units,
to show the soldiers how to do certain things and how to not do certain things,
Permskiii have claimed that he has those videos, ask him. These videos is probably
especially useful in a urban enviroment, so one of those units showing them is
the Guards regiment in Helsinki which is a urban warfare unit. They are especially
useful to show the "don´t" stuff, such as Ruskies nearly killing each other etc. And
is of course interesting since the Ruskies is the Finns most probable enemy.


Did you participate in any combat? No? Then you do not have military experience either, you have "barracks" experience...

Didn´t he just say that he was an MP? What do you think those guys do? Oh
well, of course you don´t. But you can probably imagine if you use your brain
for once.

[Russian Texan]

May I ask which videos are you referring to? I have been looking for some for a long time but without any success, would you please provide a link?

Videos taped by Ruskies in Chechnya is used by some Finnish military units,
to show the soldiers how to do certain things and how to not do certain things,
Permskiii have claimed that he has those videos, ask him. These videos is probably
especially useful in a urban enviroment, so one of those units showing them is
the Guards regiment in Helsinki which is a urban warfare unit. They are especially
useful to show the "don´t" stuff, such as Ruskies nearly killing each other etc. And
is of course interesting since the Ruskies is the Finns most probable enemy.
Stop BSing, those videos that Prmskij saw are "combat shoots" from private collections and not for public release/view.
And why would Russians show Finns videos of them "killing each other", doesn't everyone want to make themselves look good?
I saw some Chechen videos and I couldn't tell what was going on and who was shooting where, I'd imaging that russian vids are not much better, so how can a military do any studies/training based on some grainy shaky clips?


Did you participate in any combat? No? Then you do not have military experience either, you have "barracks" experience...
Didn´t he just say that he was an MP? What do you think those guys do?
Mostly they handle drunken soldiers, so how this would relate to being in the actual combat?


Conclusion: You don´t know ****, and don´t have a second of real experience.
But I have watched all the "Rambo" movies!!!!.....

[0#256]

My military experience doesn't go further then shooting a bunch of guns at a shooting range (and reading this forum hehe), but I know posers when I see them.
I've spent one year in FDF, 362 days + 13 days on refresher courses, so that makes alot more military experience than you American wannabe! :slap:
I served in a military police unit here in the capital of Finland and I say that our training was very competitive.
Competitive to what/whom? Did you recieve any training from some other country's military, if not your statement is based on....?

When I was at service, no. Some units at the same time, yes.
Part of my statement is based on an video quoted later on this message.

After watching some videos of russian specal forces fooling around in Chechen, my point of view just got stronger.
May I ask which videos are you referring to? I have been looking for some for a long time but without any success, would you please provide a link?

I uploaded this (http://www.the-deep.net/other/omon.avi) video on my server only for you.
Though this clip might not reprecent THE elïte of the russian federation special forces, but still the manouvers look like Finnish privates doing a "FUBAR" mission after two weeks of traing.

So RussianAmerican, I advice you and everybody else with 0 military expercience to STFU on these matters. :backhand:
Did you participate in any combat? No? Then you do not have military experience either, you have "barracks" experience...
I know a guy who have spent almost 2 years of his service in a food storage facility but he got to wear camouflage though...

Have I participated in any combat? No.
Have you participated any military training? No. rofl
And yes, we got cook's (An army that doesn't have supplies?) and I was the "bad" guy with the night stick.

About the video.
There was some old stuff and even older than that. I saw some of those clips when I was at my draft in '98.
Maybe we don't have Hollywood on our side making five star propaganda, but has propvideos ever really made better soldiers?
No, but the mentality does: the one can't fight like a tiger if he was raised like a "pussy-cat"

Even pussycat can tear out the eyes of an tiger if he/she got the skills to do so, My platoon VS. your "grenade boucers"? :lol:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

My military experience doesn't go further then shooting a bunch of guns at a shooting range (and reading this forum hehe), but I know posers when I see them.
I've spent one year in FDF, 362 days + 13 days on refresher courses, so that makes alot more military experience than you American wannabe! :slap:
I served in a military police unit here in the capital of Finland and I say that our training was very competitive.
Competitive to what/whom? Did you recieve any training from some other country's military, if not your statement is based on....?

When I was at service, no. Some units at the same time, yes.
Part of my statement is based on an video quoted later on this message.

After watching some videos of russian specal forces fooling around in Chechen, my point of view just got stronger.
May I ask which videos are you referring to? I have been looking for some for a long time but without any success, would you please provide a link?

I uploaded this (http://www.the-deep.net/other/omon.avi) video on my server only for you.
Though this clip might not reprecent THE elïte of the russian federation special forces, but still the manouvers look like Finnish privates doing a "FUBAR" mission after two weeks of traing.

So RussianAmerican, I advice you and everybody else with 0 military expercience to STFU on these matters. :backhand:
Did you participate in any combat? No? Then you do not have military experience either, you have "barracks" experience...
I know a guy who have spent almost 2 years of his service in a food storage facility but he got to wear camouflage though...

Have I participated in any combat? No.
Have you participated any military training? No. rofl
And yes, we got cook's (An army that doesn't have supplies?) and I was the "bad" guy with the night stick.

About the video.
There was some old stuff and even older than that. I saw some of those clips when I was at my draft in '98.
Maybe we don't have Hollywood on our side making five star propaganda, but has propvideos ever really made better soldiers?
No, but the mentality does: the one can't fight like a tiger if he was raised like a "pussy-cat"

Even pussycat can tear out the eyes of an tiger if he/she got the skills to do so, My platoon VS. your "grenade boucers"? :lol:



Perfect example of how flame wars start on a forum and ruin a thread... :roll:

[Russian Texan]

I uploaded this video on my server only for you.

Please tell me that you are kidding....

#1 Those guys are not army....

#2 The video is an amateurish attempt to create "combat footage", basically you have some MVD guys playing around with the video camera. Even me, the "armchair soldier", can't be fooled by it and you, the person who served, take it seriously/believe it.... :cantbeli:

#3 Do you really think someone would attack a snipers position with a video camera in his hands?

Poor acting, grenade exploding right next to the guy, the way they move, what and how they do it.....

Please tell me you do not think it is "actual combat footage".....

[StukaJr]

As for the training in the video - it does seem extremely soft on the recruits - how about using real barb wire instead of cord? The recruit is brushing his back against the "barb wire" as he runs through it... I've seen tougher in US JROTC :|

rofl

Good for you. That´s a make real man out of you.
And I agree with the other dudes, there is a difference
between propaganda and real life.

Hmmm... I'm not sure how my comments on the video in quiestion and what I've observed in that video calls for what seems to be an attempt to start a flame war? Did I comment on real life or the video?

I guess the formula is true:

Normal Person + Annonimity + Audience = Total F-#-%-k-w-a-d

[jassemon]

That's a recruiting video, of course it tries to give a 'soft' image. In reality there were instructors/NCOs yelling at us and we were always in a hurry (which meant running). Don't remember seeing too many smiles during first two months :)

[mustamato]

I uploaded this video on my server only for you.

Please tell me that you are kidding....

#1 Those guys are not army....

#2 The video is an amateurish attempt to create "combat footage", basically you have some MVD guys playing around with the video camera. Even me, the "armchair soldier", can't be fooled by it and you, the person who served, take it seriously/believe it.... :cantbeli:

#3 Do you really think someone would attack a snipers position with a video camera in his hands?

Poor acting, grenade exploding right next to the guy, the way they move, what and how they do it.....

Please tell me you do not think it is "actual combat footage".....

I really wonder, with your experience, which is none, how do you know all this?
I especially like the nr 3. You really don´t know ****. In example French SF
always have a dude with a camera with them. And where do you expect grenades
to explode if not "right next to a guy"? The only thing I see questionable in this
video is what happens in the end when they throw a handgrenade in to the room
and then assaults it. Firstly there was one of them inside it already before throwing
the grenade in there, so it feels a little faked. But I don´t doubt the authencity
of the rest. And as for the "poor acting", well I guess Russians just fight like that.

The same goes for your comment about the rest of the "grainy and shaky"
homemade videos from which you can´t learn anything. I guess you just prefer
the non-shaky camera of the Rambo movies. I in contrary must say that I always
learn a lot of these "shaky and grainy" videos. I guess that´s the difference
between a people that have served and one that hasn´t. Stick to Stallone laddy.

[Russian Texan]

Masturbato, how about answering any of my questions/counter my points directly?

You are yet to answer my yesterdays question: Why would Russians show Finns videos of them "killing each other", doesn't everyone want to make themselves look good?

#1 Grenade explodes couple of feet from the guy and he walks/runs away like nothing happened?

#2
In example French SF
always have a dude with a camera with them
And how do you relate French SF to the Russian MVD? :roll:

#3
Firstly there was one of them inside it already before throwing
the grenade in there, so it feels a little faked


I don´t doubt the authencity
of the rest
Isn't it a contradiction? ;)

#4 And as for the "poor acting", well I guess Russians just fight like that.
And what would you know about fighting? rofl

#5
I in contrary must say that I always
learn a lot of these "shaky and grainy" videos.
Oh really.... so please tell me what do you learn from this video: strength of attacking and defending forces, what weapons and tactics were used, number of casualties and the outcome of the firefight?
http://video.kavkazcenter.com/fight_in_chechnya/checkpoint.wmv

#6
I guess that´s the difference
between a people that have served and one that hasn´t
Darling, the only thing that you have served is lunch in the cafeteria...

Masturbato, let me explain this to you- for me there are two types of people in the armed forces: those with combat experience and those with "barracks" experience. While I have an immense respect and admiration for the first kind, the "barracks soldiers" got nothing on me...
So you can shove whatever "military" experience you have up your ass, it doesn't impress me. ;)
There is nothing, I repeat - nothing that you done in the swedish defense force that would make you better soldier or anymore combat prepared than I am:
*I learned how to disassemble and assemble AK 47 at 14.
*I learned how to march in school(NVP class - "basic military preparation" course in russian schools for 2 years")
*Basics of civil defense and first aid (same as above)
*I am CPR certified
*Skydiving experience
*Practicing shooting skills almost every week
*As long as I remember myself, I have always been involved in sports - so I know a thing or two about discipline...
*I grew up in a very rough neighborhood, so I know how to fight, also I have been competitively boxing and wrestling since age of 14...
*I have watched all of the "Rambo" movies and studied frame by frame "Commando" with A. Schwarzenegger.

KING KONG AIN'T GOT NOTHING ON ME!!!! http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/sauer/angry-smiley-050.gif

[mustamato]

*I grew up in a very rough neighborhood, so I know how to fight, also I have been competitively boxing and wrestling since age of 14...

Impressive. Must be really useful when ambushed by Chechens.
Oh and by the way, Swedish soldiers also learn how to use the
AKM, as part of foreign weapons training, or well hm. They are
Polish actually, bit it´s the same shiat I guess.

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_akm.jpg
Notice Swedish-made ammo, safer to use :)

[Russian Texan]

So what about answering my questions? ;)

[tony6]

Well-what a fierce discussion here :D
Texan vs Mustamato.

P.S.
I wouldn't actually call AKM "****". It has its disadvantage but it's pretty reliable weapon.

[Herrmannek]

Wait untill I download video and decide who is right :)

[Russian Texan]

Well-what a fierce discussion here :D
Texan vs Mustamato.


You are welcome to watch/participate, althouh I'll have to leave in about an hour.

[tony6]

Thx!
I prefer watching :D

[tony6]

Just brought some sandwiches and beer :D

[Russian Texan]

Just brought some sandwiches and beer :D

Enjoy it, the admission is free :)

[Marmot1]

rookie texan...

1# grenade was probably from grenade launcher attached to that AK that they found at the end.... it is 40mm grenade and it's "kill zone" is much smaller than regular hand granade which is couple of meters. Also fragments are smaller... the guy is lying on the lawn and as you probably know with your experience it is best way to avoid shrapnels or to reduce amout of fragments that might hit comparing to standing position

[Russian Texan]

rookie texan...

1# grenade was probably from grenade launcher attached to that AK that they found at the end.... it is 40mm grenade and it's "kill zone" is much smaller than regular hand granade which is couple of meters. Also fragments are smaller... the guy is lying on the lawn and as you probably know with your experience it is best way to avoid shrapnels or to reduce amout of fragments that might hit comparing to standing position

This particular video has been discussed and over analyzed on various Russian message boards and those with the combat experience say it is a fake. Guess who am I going to believe?

Basic Characteristics of VOG-type grenades
VOG-25 VOG-25P
Weight, kg:
round 0.250 0.278
explosive 0.048 0.037
Length of round, mm 102 122
Muzzle velocity, m/s 76.5 75
Max sighting range, m 400 400
Casualty zone radius, m 6 6
Fuze arming range limits, m 10 ... 40 10 ... 40
Fuze self-destruction time, s 14 ... 19 14 ... 19

[Marmot1]

rookie texan...

1# grenade was probably from grenade launcher attached to that AK that they found at the end.... it is 40mm grenade and it's "kill zone" is much smaller than regular hand granade which is couple of meters. Also fragments are smaller... the guy is lying on the lawn and as you probably know with your experience it is best way to avoid shrapnels or to reduce amout of fragments that might hit comparing to standing position

This particular video has been discussed and over analyzed on various Russian message boards and those with the combat experience say it is a fake. Guess who am I going to believe?
experience like yours? rofl

[tony6]

Aaaahhhh-flame war!
At last!

I'm going to get anotjer beer :D

[Russian Texan]

experience like yours? rofl

Almost, but they get to shoot people insted of targets with "mudot1" painted on them ;)

[mustamato]

So what about answering my questions? ;)

Well, most of them were quite irrelevant, but I can atleast give it a try:


Mr mustamato, how about answering any of my questions/counter my points directly? You are yet to answer my yesterdays question: Why would Russians show Finns videos of them "killing each other", doesn't everyone want to make themselves look good?

And I don´t know why you think that the Russians have given the Finns these
videos? There is a lot of videos from the Chechen war in the public domain,
the Finnish military could just as well have bought it from YLE´s archive (finnish
state television). A couple of years ago they showed a very interesting documentary
from the first Chechen war in Swedish television, it was the private video of a soldier.
It showed everything from urban fighting to drunk (or drugged) Russian soldiers
decapitating Chechens, collecting ears as trophies and so forth. So you are naive
if you think that stuff like that doesn´t exist and is easily obtainable. This also explains
why some of it is taped. Some pretty good stuff has also been captured by journalists.



#1 Grenade explodes couple of feet from the guy and he walks/runs away like nothing happened?

Yes? The reality and Hollywood is two completely different things.




Firstly there was one of them inside it already before throwing
the grenade in there, so it feels a little faked I don´t doubt the authencity
of the rest

Isn't it a contradiction? ;)

No, they had some excellent and probably authentic footage in the beginning,
and probably wanted "a cool end" to it when they killed the sniper. Personally
I think he might have died already in the beginning when the dude with the under-
barrel grenade launcher fired a 40 mm grenade. It hit high, and it also seems like
the roof collapsed over the sniper.



#4 And as for the "poor acting", well I guess Russians just fight like that.
And what would you know about fighting? rofl

Video evidence of Russians fighting and almost killing each other. I guess
friendly fire is quite common over there. Or as the other Finn in this thread
call Russians, "grenade bouncers".



I in contrary must say that I always
learn a lot of these "shaky and grainy" videos.
Oh really.... so please tell me what do you learn from this video: strength of attacking and defending forces, what weapons and tactics were used, number of casualties and the outcome of the firefight?
http://video.kavkazcenter.com/fight_in_chechnya/checkpoint.wmv

In example that it was a well-planned and perfectly executed military operation,
with a heavy support group, armed with AGL, MG´s and RPG´s, allowing the assault
squads (2 or 3) to be more lightly armed and mobile. The Ruskies died as planned.

As for the other questions, some kid at your local kindergarten can answer
them for you. They are probably bad asses about all the stuff Arnold have said.

[Russian Texan]

So what about answering my questions? ;)

Well, most of them were quite irrelevant, but I can atleast give it a try:

masturbato, how about answering any of my questions/counter my points directly? You are yet to answer my yesterdays question: Why would Russians show Finns videos of them "killing each other", doesn't everyone want to make themselves look good?

And I don´t know why you think that the Russians have given the Finns these
videos?
So you do not know.

There is a lot of videos from the Chechen war in the public domain,
Yeah, especially on sites like ******.com and kavkazcenter.org....

the Finnish military could just as well have bought it from YLE´s archive (finnish state television).
One thing i do not get is why are speaking for the Finnish military, you are swede - forgot?
A couple of years ago they showed a very interesting documentary
from the first Chechen war in Swedish television, it was the private video of a soldier.
It showed everything from urban fighting to drunk (or drugged) Russian soldiers
decapitating Chechens, collecting ears as trophies and so forth.
What person in his right mind would film crimes/atrocities commited by him and give/sell it to the journalist? Would you bring evidence against you to court?

So you are naive
No, I am rationally sceptical while you are brainwashed moron boiling with hatred...

if you think that stuff like that doesn´t exist and is easily obtainable. This also explains why some of it is taped.
Why don't you ask 16 OBrSpN and Permskij OMON to see their personal collections and see what answer you get...

Some pretty good stuff has also been captured by journalists.
What stuff? Links, frame shots, any proof for your statement?



Yes? The reality and Hollywood is two completely different things.
You had grenades exploding right next to you to make a statement like this?



Firstly there was one of them inside it already before throwing
the grenade in there, so it feels a little faked I don´t doubt the authencity
of the rest

Isn't it a contradiction? ;)[/quote]

No, they had some excellent and probably authentic footage in the beginning,
and probably wanted "a cool end" to it when they killed the sniper. Personally
I think he might have died already in the beginning when the dude with the under-
barrel grenade launcher fired a 40 mm grenade. It hit high, and it also seems like
the roof collapsed over the sniper.

Seems like, May be, I am not sure, I think, you use those quite a lot...
Proof for your statement?


#4 And as for the "poor acting", well I guess Russians just fight like that.
And what would you know about fighting? rofl[/quote]

Video evidence of Russians fighting and almost killing each other.
Where is the evidence?
I guess friendly fire is quite common over there.
Masturbato, you don't guess - you BS...
Do you have the proving evidence?
Or as the other Finn in this thread
call Russians, "grenade bouncers".
Multiple people called you a retard, are you?


I in contrary must say that I always
learn a lot of these "shaky and grainy" videos.
Oh really.... so please tell me what do you learn from this video: strength of attacking and defending forces, what weapons and tactics were used, number of casualties and the outcome of the firefight?
http://video.kavkazcenter.com/fight_in_chechnya/checkpoint.wmv[/quote]

In example that it was a well-planned and perfectly executed military operation,
You make this statement based on what evidence?
with a heavy support group, armed with AGL, MG´s and RPG´s,
Uh?
allowing the assault squads (2 or 3) to be more lightly armed and mobile.
Where in that video have you "squads of 2-3"?
The Ruskies died as planned.
Where in that video have you seen multiple dead bodies of Russian soldiers? There was only one unidentified body shown and that could have been anyone...


As for the other questions, some kid at your local kindergarten can answer
them for you. They are probably bad asses about all the stuff Arnold have said.
As for the other questions you neither have the intelligence, humor or knowledge to answer them....[/quote]

[Marmot1]

rookie texan...

1# grenade was probably from grenade launcher attached to that AK that they found at the end.... it is 40mm grenade and it's "kill zone" is much smaller than regular hand granade which is couple of meters. Also fragments are smaller... the guy is lying on the lawn and as you probably know with your experience it is best way to avoid shrapnels or to reduce amout of fragments that might hit comparing to standing position

This particular video has been discussed and over analyzed on various Russian message boards and those with the combat experience say it is a fake. Guess who am I going to believe?

Basic Characteristics of VOG-type grenades
VOG-25 VOG-25P
Weight, kg:
round 0.250 0.278
explosive 0.048 0.037
Length of round, mm 102 122
Muzzle velocity, m/s 76.5 75
Max sighting range, m 400 400
Casualty zone radius, m 6 6 Fuze arming range limits, m 10 ... 40 10 ... 40
Fuze self-destruction time, s 14 ... 19 14 ... 19

this is maximum value and do not mean that everything in this zone is killed or harmed I can provide you photos of ppl who cooked ORDINARY nade to long in hand - it exploded and they still survived (without some fingers of course ;) )

[RomanS]

And I don´t know why you think that the Russians have given the Finns these
videos? There is a lot of videos from the Chechen war in the public domain,
the Finnish military could just as well have bought it from YLE´s archive (finnish
state television). A couple of years ago they showed a very interesting documentary
from the first Chechen war in Swedish television, it was the private video of a soldier.
It showed everything from urban fighting to drunk (or drugged) Russian soldiers
decapitating Chechens, collecting ears as trophies and so forth. So you are naive
if you think that stuff like that doesn´t exist and is easily obtainable. This also explains
why some of it is taped. Some pretty good stuff has also been captured by journalists.

rofl rofl rofl

Masturbato,
Russian Internal Affairs, Federal Security and ministery of Defence has a hard time letting the independent Russian media in with them.
The only media agencies that go along with the Russian forces are usually Vesti, ORT crew, and journalists from "BROTHERHOOD OF RED BERETS"

Now you are telling me that some Swedish or Finnish news crew went into Grozny during the first war a taped Russian Soldiers cutting off Chechen heads and ears?

Dumbass, the Russians didnt have that kind of time to have fun in front of the Swed/Finn (lol) cameras during the winter fights of Grozny 95.

Majority of Euro media ran around with the Chechens, because Russians won't let them near our guys.

And as my archives tell me, the closest media group that ever came close to Russians were Polish media crews.

Now about your private video bull****. I recall only Federal groups like FSB, FSK and UFSB had the camcorder with them during the first war. A lot of MVD officers as wel brought in their homecorders and took them along to only certain operations.

In order for them to tape the fight they had to have a premission from Federals and higher authorities. Most of the tapes taped by our guys were daily routine ones. Barracks, dinners, cleaning weapons, games, greetings, saying hi to their families, showing landscape and nature.

Now there are plenty of operations recorded on tape by Special brigades of GRU, FSB, MVD and Army. They were recorded for the archives for the Russian government. I've see quite a few, and actually have some.

But I tell you right now Masturbato, only in your wild wet dreams that you will ever see anything like that. No Russian Federal operator, GRU, MVD and Army would let you even touch the tape. And I'm not even talking about seeing it.

And bull**** like selling the tape to TV in Finland, Sweden What the fu ck ever!

[Marmot1]

permski reread what he wrote - that this video was taken by private (russian) not by the finnish/swedish crew.


A couple of years ago they showed a very interesting documentary
from the first Chechen war in Swedish television, it was the private video of a soldier.
It showed everything from urban fighting to drunk (or drugged) Russian soldiers
decapitating Chechens, collecting ears as trophies and so forth

[Spleen]

And the suggestion that because it's not officially happening it's not happening at all is patently ridiculous.

Soldiers of all armies violate rules. Why is it so hard to believe that some Russian soldiers made videos without official permission?

Also, you made the argument that why would a soldier video himself committing atrocites and then turn them over to the press. Well, first off, it's quite common that people do things in the heat of the moment or in a mob mentality situation that they later regret. Perhaps, hypothetically, someone decided later on that they felt bad about something they did and released the video so that others could see what was really going on and do something about it. There is also the possibility that the soldier that released the tape did not personally take part in the atrocities, and was trying to anonymously tip off the press.

None of what I said here means I necessarily believe in all of the atrocities which people here have attributed to the russians, I am merely pointing out the obvious flaws in your arguments.

[RomanS]

OH ,
So let me get something straight here.

As we all know, majority of the Chechen fighters cut off heads and body parts for evidence, and further funding from the Middle East. They video document it, so that they can send it to their sponsors and prove that they are fighting for their god.

There were many also doing it out of pure enjoyment. Arbi Baraev was just one out of hundreds. He was a sick animal, that killed more of his own people. The Chechen civilians who would talk to the Russian federals during the village cleansing, he would video tape them from far away, and later show them the evidence right before he cuts their heads off.

Anyways.
We know why Chechen and Arab mercs cut heads off.

Now lets look at the Russian side.
So in other words Yeltsin's administration didn't want to see Russian Flags raised over Grozny and other major locations in Chechnya. Yeltsin didnt care to see the victories, succsesful operations, less casualties and most of all peace in the region.

All Boris Yeltsin wanted to see is endless hours of beheading poor Chechens, so that he can send more money and new weapons to the troops. Despite that if Yeltsin's administration would see this kind of satanic evidence, not only the commander, the officers but the entire freakin regiment would go to prision for that.

Now. Possibility number 1

Lets say the soldiers were beheading Chechen civilians (or who ever they were on the tape, I don't know never seen it) after talking to many soldiers, doing something like that is very very very mentally hard. Even if the Chechens killed my best friend, raped my sister, and cut my ears off. I still won't cut anyone's head off. I would rather shoot him, and give the bastard the soldier's death. Plus it will be easier to explain why he has a bullet hole in his scull, instead of a headless corpse.

Lets not get carried away, and get back on the subject. So the Russian soldiers are in the middle of cutting off heads, tottaly ignoring the possibility of a long prision time for that crime, court marshal and a whole a lot of evidence. Out of nowhere comes the SNEAKER. In the Batman outfit, and the camera attached to his arm.

He records all this horror, and sneaks quietly out selling the tape to Finnish TV.

Possibility number 2.

During the cutting off heads and ears fiesta, a Russian soldier breaks out with a camcorder and records the crimes for which he's also risking being F U CKED !
No commanding staff is near, so he takes the chance and records it.
I would think that after they were done cuting heads and ears off, they would all gather in a circle, and swear on their moms, pops, sisters, brothers, that they will never ever tell anyone about this.
Kind of like "I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SUMMER"

Years go by, and now they all back in the civilian life (hoping that most of them lived through the war). Something happens between the circle of friends. I would think the head cutter slept with a cameraoperator's girl, and that made the camera operator turn to Finns.

He completely ignored the crime recorded on the tape, and also his involvment with it, and brought the Beta Master to the local Finnish TV station. I understand, he was pissed.

On the other note
WHY DON'T WE JUST FU CK IN STOP THE BS

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

WHY DON'T WE JUST FU CK IN STOP THE BS

Word I've been waiting for someone to say this, we are all adults why can we not talk something over like adults? It shouldn't have to degrade to highschool-pre highschool insults, you guys are after all adults right?

I'm 19 years old, I rather take part in a civil informed discussion any day then some constant personal/country bashing thread. Either settle it like adults or we can totally forget about this thread and have it locked.

[StukaJr]

Oy! Can we all just cool it here for a bit?

Human race is plaqued by abnormal behaviours, substance abuse, mental illness in particular individuals and different ways human mind reacts/alters due to constant stress, having their life in danger or having to fight to survive. I would like to belive that any particular group of population is entirely free of such vices/diseases but that's just not the case. I would like to belive that there is a particular ethnical group or a group contained by a particular nation's borders that is noble and would never escallate its means of agression when faced with overwhelming atrocity. However, I do know from a personal experience, that in Soviet Union and later Russian Federation - hate towards other religions, encroaching on other people's freedoms, sadistic torture was never taught nor idealized in schools, areas of congregation or mass media outlets.

It's good to learn on other people's mistakes by watching "what not to do" videos - but of course unless all you do is watch and never have a task anywhere as hazardous or challenging, it's like watching war movies on a comfy couch. I don't see the point in defending russian military tactics or their adaptability in the wars they fight - at least they fight. And if you call them "grenade bouncers" then your country's propaganda department has done it's job rather splendidly!

[perdurabo]

Permski russian sodiers are ppl not worse than any other but also not better than any other nation, there are few realy great ppl lots of normal ppl and few sick bastards, but as N Machiavelli said moust of ppl are bad in deep of their hearts so when its occasion to make bad things they make them. Like Poland has weak laws about corupcion so there are lots of corruption cases in one even our PM take part!:(. So on war when soldiers drink to forget about horror of war are scared that they get killed and watch their comrades get killed they can make lots of things that in normal situation normal human will never do! its occasion that makes thiefs.

[RomanS]

Permski russian sodiers are ppl not worse than any other but also not better than any other nation, there are few realy great ppl lots of normal ppl and few sick bastards, but as N Machiavelli said moust of ppl are bad in deep of their hearts so when its occasion to make bad things they make them. Like Poland has weak laws about corupcion so there are lots of corruption cases in one even our PM take part!:(. So on war when soldiers drink to forget about horror of war are scared that they get killed and watch their comrades get killed they can make lots of things that in normal situation normal human will never do! its occasion that makes thiefs.

Im still waiting for the punch line!

[mustamato]

Permski russian sodiers are ppl not worse than any other but also not better than any other nation, there are few realy great ppl lots of normal ppl and few sick bastards

Best statement I´ve ever read on this forum. Permskiii, greatings for making
a great post and not only a one-liner saying that Marmot1 is a superfag.

Btw I´m a little drunk right now, you should be here now, I´m sure you would
puke after 30 minutes with our Finnish speed of drinking :) (Just kidding etc etc).
Hugs and kisses to you all.

[StukaJr]

Hey, Mustamoto... since we are all civilized for the time being... who is the old coot in your avatar pic?

[RomanS]

Hey, Mustamoto... since we are all civilized for the time being... who is the old coot in your avatar pic?

his lover

[perdurabo]

Im still waiting for the punch line!
my english is not superb is that mean that you are waiting for me attack you? or russian soldiers? or something else?
Read again my posts you will se what i have in mind.

[Dalleer]

Hey, Mustamoto... since we are all civilized for the time being... who is the old coot in your avatar pic?

Urho Kaleva Kekkonen, one of the former presidents of Finland.

[StukaJr]

Hey, Mustamoto... since we are all civilized for the time being... who is the old coot in your avatar pic?

his lover

I see... That's what drives him to drink rofl

___________________________________________________________

Enjoy my temporary avatar

[anv2]

That's a recruiting video, of course it tries to give a 'soft' image.

Yep. It's a typical Finnish army internal use film: bad music combined with obvious propaganda and poor video shooting. I think I saw this particular video during the initial recruitment event. I think its main purpose is to show new recruits that "it isn't that bad".

[Dalleer]

That's a recruiting video, of course it tries to give a 'soft' image.

Yep. It's a typical Finnish army internal use film: bad music combined with obvious propaganda and poor video shooting. I think I saw this particular video during the initial recruitment event. I think its main purpose is to show new recruits that "it isn't that bad".

Yeah, agreed.

[pipaz]

all this over one video, i know what i'm gona do, ill make my own video!!! and post it here, well see how much bs it brings. :)

hmm let me think my birthday party...should be a good'un

http://www.ohmytrance.com/board/data/photo/2004129122418[1].gif

[mustamato]

Hey, Mustamoto... since we are all civilized for the time being... who is the old coot in your avatar pic?

his lover

I see... That's what drives him to drink rofl

___________________________________________________________

Enjoy my temporary avatar

Aaah.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/avatars/12403826764064a7c55ee77.jpg

Another great invention from Finland, or well, that´s were it got its name atleast.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Talvisota/Varusteet/MolotovinCocktail.jpg
... with a mixture of fuel, petrol, booze, tar, extremely adhesive.

http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Talvisota/Piirrokset/EnglantilainenPiirrosTankintuhoajista.jpg
Finnish tank killer patrols destroying Soviet tanks.
Published in British newspapers.

[tony6]

Mustamato:
Mr. Kekkonen at Your avatar looks pretty wise to me. Was he like that in the reality?

[mustamato]

Mustamato:
Mr. Kekkonen at Your avatar looks pretty wise to me. Was he like that in the reality?

http://www.jyu.fi/library/julkaisut/kielletyt_kirjat/kekkonen.gif

"Urho Kaleva Kekkonen (3 September, 1900 - 31 August, 1986) was the greatest Finnish President during peace time, whose rule lasted exceptionally long, from 1956 to 1981; thus not being comparable to the presidents and prime ministers of other Western democracies, but rather the demagogues of the Eastern Communist countries; such as Brezhnev, Josip Broz Tito or Ceaucescu. This unusual extended period of one man staying in power was made possible by the continuing pressure of Russians, who wanted to make sure that the anti-Soviet powers would not gain foothold in Finland (with its strategic geopolitical location between the East and West). Kekkonen would play this situation to his advantage and, with hindsight, also managed to keep the Russians at bay and thus maintained Finland's sovereign position (which could be seen as quite shaky for observers both abroad and in Finland).

A Machiavellian Prince both in the best and worst sense of the word, Kekkonen was the ultimate father figure of the postwar to pre-Glasnost Finland; ruling with an iron hand, loved by his subjects - and feared and hated by his enemies (****e to mockingly call Finland "Kekkoslovakia"). Suomen Talvisota 1939-1940 and Sleepy Sleepers wrote songs about him. The athletic Kekkonen also liked to ski, fish, hunt, womanise and booze - in other words, in the class of real men's men. Americans had their John Wayne, we had Kekkonen."

[tony6]

Sounds like interesitng person.
In Your avatar he looks very dignified but I can see from his hobbies that he was a man in the flesh.
My kind of man :D