Anne Frank diary burning sparks outrage in Germany

[ed316]

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Anne Frank diary burning sparks outrage in Germany





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BERLIN - The ceremonial burning of the diary of Holocaust victim Anne Frank by far-right extremists in eastern Germany was condemned by the German government on Friday amid calls to intensify efforts to stamp out neo-Nazi activity.

"This act was beneath contempt and could scarcely have been more primitive," the German Interior Ministry said in a statement to *******.

The ministry was reacting to an incident in which three men in the eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt used a copy of the diary of the Jewish teenager to re-enact the Nazis' infamous incineration of 'un-German' literature in 1933.

State prosecutors are investigating the men, who also burned an American flag in front of a crowd estimated to have numbered more than a hundred, on suspicion of inciting racial hatred.

According to news reports, one of the men cast the diary into the flames and said: "I commit Anne Frank to the fire," borrowing words used by the Nazis in 1933.

"All of us in Saxony-Anhalt are put to shame by this," Wolfgang Boehmer, premier of Saxony-Anhalt, told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung daily on Friday.

Boehmer said the state would act decisively to prevent a repeat of the incident, which occurred at a summer solstice celebration in late June in the village of Pretzien. Details of the episode have emerged over the past week.

Known as "Anne Frank: the Diary of a Young Girl" in English, the work chronicles the Frankfurt-born Jewish girl's period in hiding in the Nazi-occupied Netherlands, and became one of the world's most widely read books after it was published in 1947.

Juergen Falter, an expert on the far-right at the University of Mainz, said it was no accident the men targeted Anne Frank, who died aged 15 in Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in 1945, and Germany's chief post-war occupying power, the United States.

"The two (acts) go together: right-wing extremism is at the same time anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism," he said.

A number of attacks on foreigners have raised concerns that neo-Nazi violence could be increasing after far-right parties in two eastern states entered state parliaments in late 2004.

A spokesman for Saxony-Anhalt's interior ministry said the celebration was staged by the "Heimat Bund Ostelbien" -- a group which grew out of an earlier far-right organization in the area.

"The example of Pretzien is particularly alarming as never before had (a far right group) been incorporated into village life and treated like a perfectly normal association," he said.

"The problem is more there are too few democrats in the East with the courage to stand up to it and prevent it."

Thomas Heppener, director of the Anne Frank center in Berlin, said he was at a meeting in Pretzien when the men, all in their twenties, made no attempt to explain their actions.

"They told the village and the mayor they were sorry and that they hadn't wanted the village to be in the headlines. But that was it," he said. "There was no sign of remorse."



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Copyright © 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures

[sp2c]

burning Anne Frank's diary is stupid even for Neonazi's

why would they do that, do they think it's propaganda or something?
she wasn't hiding in a bookcabin from the germans?

or is it simply something they don't want to hear about?

[Macabi]

Hope they catch fire themselves next time. :-*$

[Scotus]

Thomas Heppener, director of the Anne Frank center in Berlin, said he was at a meeting in Pretzien when the men, all in their twenties, made no attempt to explain their actions. ... "There was no sign of remorse."


These men are idiots. It is expecting too much for them to even try to explain their deranged actions.

The collective brainpower of all these morons put together is only a tiny fraction of Anne Frank's intelligence.

[Pille1234]

burning Anne Frank's diary is stupid even for Neonazi's
3 retarded people made it into international media, thats not easy these days, so they were not too stupid.

[PELASGOS]

Burning a flag publicly is a felony but burning YOUR book which is your property is legal.

[PELASGOS]

burning Anne Frank's diary is stupid even for Neonazi's

why would they do that, do they think it's propaganda or something?
she wasn't hiding in a bookcabin from the germans?

or is it simply something they don't want to hear about?


Actually they think is pro Holocaust propaganda and that diary was not written by a 13 year old girl.

[IDF-Godzilla]

Burning a flag publicly is a felony but burning YOUR book which is your property is legal.
If you talk about written laws of course, but if you think by human laws...
When the Nazis burned "jewish books" (written by jewish writers) a famouse German philosopher once sayd that "in the place where people burn books, some day they will burn people".
Keep that in your mind amigo.

[RFSU]

There was a doco a few years back on Aussie telly about the effect of the second world war on the baby boomers and gen X in Germany which was IMO very well done. It seemed that while the boomers were ashamed of their nations past the Xers almost rebelled against that shame. For the Aussies on board it was on SBS I think does anyone else remember it?

Perhaps some of the Germans here could (without blasting me) comment?

[LaoSexMachine]

PELAGOS, I have notice that you have a thing against Jews.

[PELASGOS]

If you talk about written laws of course, but if you think by human laws...
When the Nazis burned "jewish books" (written by jewish writers) a famouse German philosopher once sayd that "in the place where people burn books, some day they will burn people".
Keep that in your mind amigo.


You are wrong about when he said it ,it was 1821:


The writer Heinrich Heine famously wrote in 1821 "Where they burn books, they will end in burning human beings."— Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen (in his play Almansor).

[Macs.]

Burning a flag publicly is a felony but burning YOUR book which is your property is legal.

I am no law expert but a public burning of such a book could be considered "Volksverhetzung", read below:



Volksverhetzung is a peculiarity of German law that often applies in trials relating holocaust denial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial) in Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany).

Though freedom of speech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech) is guaranteed by the fifth article of the Grundgesetz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundgesetz) (Germany's constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution)), there are some restrictions, e.g. personal insults or incitement of the people (German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language): "Volksverhetzung" - known as hate speech in other legislatures). Volksverhetzung includes the spreading of Neo-Nazi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism) ideas and the use of related symbols like the swastika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika), except for purposes of art, research or education.

Volksverhetzung is a punishable offense under Section 130 of the Strafgesetzbuch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch) (Germany's criminal code) and can lead to up to five years imprisonment. Crimes committed by Section 130 are punishable in Germany even if committed abroad, and even if committed by non-German citizens.

[Macs.]

There was a doco a few years back on Aussie telly about the effect of the second world war on the baby boomers and gen X in Germany which was IMO very well done. It seemed that while the boomers were ashamed of their nations past the Xers almost rebelled against that shame. For the Aussies on board it was on SBS I think does anyone else remember it?

Perhaps some of the Germans here could (without blasting me) comment?

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean.

Do you mean the "68s/Student movement" ?

-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_student_movement

[PELASGOS]

PELAGOS, I have notice that you have a thing against Jews.


They keep teeling me that but i don't have anything vs Jews except they have an alliance with Turkey which the Jews say is not directed against Greece. But i get angry when i ask questions in good faith and i am not getting answers but ' you are an antisemite' and such.

Question: Why Israel does not recognise the Armenian holocaust? I don't say about the Greeks who were executed in Minor Asia- i ask about the Armenians. Turkey would be very angry with a recognition. But if we accept Israeli attitude as a tool we can accept or don't accept holocausts generally depending who we want to please.


This kind of arguing didn't make me favorable to Jewish members.

[LaoSexMachine]

So you dislike them because they don't public recognise the Armenian Holocaust?

Maybe privately they do and rather have a peaceful relationship with thier neighbors then stir shyt up?

[Lt. James Anderson]

How can you dislike "God's chosen"? :roll: I have nothing against Jews but that kind of BS - you have to like them _tends to piss people off ...

[LaoSexMachine]

Who forces you to like them. Are you living in a dictatorship where you are force to like Jews?

[PELASGOS]

Crimes committed by Section 130 are punishable in Germany even if committed abroad, and even if committed by non-German citizens.

In order to get a person extradited to Germany to be trialed about some crime he commited abroad ,the same crime must be punished as crime from the country who extradites the person.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Well, seems like it. Any criticism of Jews is looked upon that way. Like they can do no wrong ... There is good and bad in any nation .. same goes for the Jews.

[Macs.]

Crimes committed by Section 130 are punishable in Germany even if committed abroad, and even if committed by non-German citizens.

In order to get a person extradited to Germany to be trialed about some crime he commited abroad ,the same crime must be punished as crime from the country who extradites the person.

Umm, what has this to do with anything ?

[PELASGOS]

So you dislike them because they don't public recognise the Armenian Holocaust?

Maybe privately they do and rather have a peaceful relationship with thier neighbors then stir shyt up?


The Armenian thing is just an example. What do mean privately? That Greece for example don't wants to sad German govt and cancels Holocaust ceremonies but privately we are sad? :roll:

[Plastic_Yank]

Hmm. How "Extreme Right-Wing" are these guys, exactly?

[LaoSexMachine]

The Armenian thing is just an example. What do mean privately? That Greece for example don't wants to sad German govt and cancels Holocaust ceremonies but privately we are sad? :roll:

You don't have to go public with certain things to accept what happens. If you can't grasp that concept then you will not understand.

[PELASGOS]

Umm, what has this to do with anything ?


You posted it read the last lines of the law. Plus the Knesset has voted a similar law in Israel to give Israel authority to persecute aby foreigner abroad who doubts the Holocaust.


Now if burning a book can be a hate crime that's a matter of interpreting the law. Plus you must prove that the ones who burned it actually has read it first:)

[PELASGOS]

You don't have to go public with certain things to accept what happens. If you can't grasp that concept then you will not understand.


You can't built an entire policy on your nations Holocaust and not have official position about other nations tragedies.

If you can't grab the concept then you will not understand.

[Macs.]

You posted it read the last lines of the law. Plus the Knesset has voted a similar law in Israel to give Israel authority to persecute aby foreigner abroad who doubts the Holocaust.

And where is the relation to the topic ?



Plus you must proove that the ones who burned it actually read it first:)

No.

[LaoSexMachine]

You can't built an entire policy on your nations Holocaust and not have official position about other nations tragedies.

If you can't grab the concept then you will not understand.

What policy is that? Are you Armenian?

[PELASGOS]

Who forces you to like them. Are you living in a dictatorship where you are force to like Jews?


Having some academic discussions ina forum even flame war doesn't mean we can get along with some people. Theory is one thing, reality is another. I have Israeli friends i like very much and Turkish friends. But when we talk about some serious topics i choose the motto:

' Plato Is My Friend, But Truth My Greater Friend'

[PELASGOS]

What policy is that? Are you Armenian?


The Jewish policy on the Holocaust- education etc



I am Grecian:)


If his remark about a New York Times reporter was the first time George W Bush had been caught with his pants down verbally, people probably would not mind too much.

But he is the candidate who called people from Greece, Grecians

[Macabi]

Well, seems like it. Any criticism of Jews is looked upon that way. Like they can do no wrong ... There is good and bad in any nation .. same goes for the Jews.

What Jews are bad?

If you are referring to Israel, call it Israel.

[saladin]

Question: Why Israel does not recognise the Armenian holocaust? I don't say about the Greeks who were executed in Minor Asia- i ask about the Armenians. Turkey would be very angry with a recognition. But if we accept Israeli attitude as a tool we can accept or don't accept holocausts generally depending who we want to please.


This kind of arguing didn't make me favorable to Jewish members.
Perhaps that is because they know that they really suffered in Germany while the so called Armenian genocide is a propaganda tale by Armenians and others.

I live in Marmara region of Turkey where Greeks once lived with Turks. My father's side came from Blacksea region where Pontus people lived (do you wonder why my family had to leave their land?). Mind you, my grandfather talked Pontus language. My mother's side lives in southern Turkey just like they did when Armenians attacked the villagers and all of them were afraid to go alone on the road, some had to leave their houses behind and moved to bigger cities. So don't tell me about your bedtime stories. I have heard the first hand experience about what Greeks did during the Asia-Minor campaign, or what Armenians did before and during WWI in western Turkey (where I live), northern Turkey (where my father's family lived), southern Turkey (where my mother's family live).

If you think you are so innocent, read Dido Sotiriou's Farewell Anatolia.

Besides this thread has nothing to do with your propaganda attempts.

[Firetxmi]

I know nothing about the above, but I will say I see the end of this thread is quickly approaching.

[Plastic_Yank]

Perhaps that is because they know that they really suffered in Germany while the so called Armenian genocide is a propaganda tale by Armenians and others.

I live in Marmara region of Turkey where Greeks once lived with Turks. My father's side came from Blacksea region where Pontus people lived (do you wonder why my family had to leave their land?). Mind you, my grandfather talked Pontus language. My mother's side lives in southern Turkey just like they did when Armenians attacked the villagers and all of them were afraid to go alone on the road, some had to leave their houses behind and moved to bigger cities. So don't tell me about your bedtime stories. I have heard the first hand experience about what Greeks did during the Asia-Minor campaign, or what Armenians did before and during WWI in western Turkey (where I live), northern Turkey (where my father's family lived), southern Turkey (where my mother's family live).I wonder what tales the Germans would tell of Jewish attrocities against innocent Aryans had they won the war...:roll:

Interesting choice of name, btw.

[Lokos]

You fools. Only 999,999 Armenians died. Not 1,000,000. Therefore it couldn't have been a genocide!

*sarcasm off*

In all seriousness, though, the Turkish government should acknowledge that Armenians in the WWI Ottoman Empire suffered untold horrors. Whether it is labelled 'genocide' or not is immaterial. Hundreds of thousands, at the very least, died. Many of them directly at the hands of Turkish troops and marauders. Many more through neglect.

Simply calling these accusations 'propaganda' shouldn't fly.

Lokos

[PELASGOS]

Perhaps that is because they know that they really suffered in Germany while the so called Armenian genocide is a propaganda tale by Armenians and others.

I live in Marmara region of Turkey where Greeks once lived with Turks. My father's side came from Blacksea region where Pontus people lived (do you wonder why my family had to leave their land?). Mind you, my grandfather talked Pontus language. My mother's side lives in southern Turkey just like they did when Armenians attacked the villagers and all of them were afraid to go alone on the road, some had to leave their houses behind and moved to bigger cities. So don't tell me about your bedtime stories. I have heard the first hand experience about what Greeks did during the Asia-Minor campaign, or what Armenians did before and during WWI in western Turkey (where I live), northern Turkey (where my father's family lived), southern Turkey (where my mother's family live).

If you think you are so innocent, read Dido Sotiriou's Farewell Anatolia.

Besides this thread has nothing to do with your propaganda attempts.


Since the Greek Turkish threads are not allowed I am going to give a fast answer and come back at the topic. About what happened in Asia Minor with Greeks, Armenians and Turks: Let's have a foreign diplomats opinion of the events: US consul Horton in Smyrna was there and he wrote it down and some American missionaries were eyewitnesses and we have their testimonies:

http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/hb-contents.html



BTW i am surprised you recognise a Pontus language because the Turkish state doesn't.

[Wodan]

OMG

some idiots burn some book in GERMANY, now they are world wide in the news


hell thats cool, its really easy to get famous if you are german LOL


go out of your home, set a book on fire and wait..


to be honest: WHO CARES

[IronFinn]

Isn´t this german guilt becoming a bit old? I mean, germans today don´t have anything to do with the ww2, not more than average finn or american. Why shoud they feel guilty? My granfather was involved with our civil war and did probably some nasty things but does that make me feel shame? Nope.

[Fargin]

It's important for all of us to remember. But remembering also casts a shadow on todays germany. Our history reflects on who we are, whether we like it or not. History can be a blessing or a burden. Germany has to enforce these anti-fascist/anti-nazi laws very strictly, to maintain a distance to the past horrors commited in their names.

It was nice though to see Germany's joy durring the World Cup, being the center of the world and still being allowed to celebrate themselves, their colors and flag. I rooted for Germany. :D

[DeltaWhisky58]

Burning a flag publicly is a felony but burning YOUR book which is your property is legal.

What an utterly stupid and ignorant comment. Since when did you determine what is and isn't legal in Germany - take a look at their history and the significance of what was done, then step back and look at your own crass post!

Wise up!

[Turhapuro]

Now if burning a book can be a hate crime that's a matter of interpreting the law. Plus you must prove that the ones who burned it actually has read it first:)Well, you just can't be too rough to neonazies so my suggestion is to hang them all.

[PELASGOS]

What an utterly stupid and ignorant comment. Since when did you determine what is and isn't legal in Germany - take a look at their history and the significance of what was done, then step back and look at your own crass post!

Wise up!



So noone can have an opinion about what is legal and what is not in Germany? Saying'' killing a man is not legal in Germany'', is ignorant too maby?


The right of property is an absolute right in European legal systems- most are founded on the German legal system. Thus, burning a thousand books of your own does not violates any law. The only problem is the public nature of the burning which has to do with public disturbance and fire hazards.


Saying that burning copies of the Anne Frank book is targeting religious groups and is a hate act has a basis according to German law but if Jewish demonstrators burn a thousand copies of 'Mein Kampf' knowing that some German citizens(neonazis) are offended, a similar hate case will have a basis too. I am not saying that the two books are of the same quality, it's just an example.

[PELASGOS]

It's important for all of us to remember. But remembering also casts a shadow on todays germany. Our history reflects on who we are, whether we like it or not. History can be a blessing or a burden. Germany has to enforce these anti-fascist/anti-nazi laws very strictly, to maintain a distance to the past horrors commited in their names.

It was nice though to see Germany's joy durring the World Cup, being the center of the world and still being allowed to celebrate themselves, their colors and flag. I rooted for Germany. :D



Me too since we owe too much to our German football coach:hug:

[tsuri]

Outrage? This was an isolated incident and nobody is really giving it any thought. They should have burned "Der Vorleser" though. THIS is a bad book on that subject..

[DeltaWhisky58]

So noone can have an opinion about what is legal and what is not in Germany? Saying'' killing a man is not legal in Germany'', is ignorant too maby?


The right of property is an absolute right in European legal systems- most are founded on the German legal system. Thus, burning a thousand books of your own does not violates any law. The only problem is the public nature of the burning which has to do with public disturbance and fire hazards.


Saying that burning copies of the Anne Frank book is targeting religious groups and is a hate act has a basis according to German law but if Jewish demonstrators burn a thousand copies of 'Mein Kampf' knowing that some German citizens(neonazis) are offended, a similar hate case will have a basis too. I am not saying that the two books are of the same quality, it's just an example.

Don't be a complete idiot! I was quite clear in what I said, and you know it. Would you have commented similarly if left wingers had burned Mein Kampf - I think not.

N.B. As you have already incurred several bans for racial/ethic prejudice-based posting, your next one will be very long!

[martinexsquaddie]

neo nazi's should be mocked at everytime
burned a copy of ayn rands atlas shrugged cause I needed to get a fire going and it was one one of the worst books i ever tried to read even worse than the irsih republican Sci fi burning of the light

[Wodan]

can´t someone close this piece of unimportance?

[DeltaWhisky58]

can´t someone close this piece of unimportance?

Now I wonder why you would ask such a thing?

Unimportance? ... ... ... I think not.

I am going to close this thread, but not because of unimportance - because the bigots are gathering and I'm not you to allow you and your kind to start another flame war.




N.B. As you have already incurred several bans for racial/ethic prejudice-based posting, your next one will be very long!

Note well what I said to Pelasgos earlier, because exactly the same applies to you, doesn't it?