F125 - Germany's new mini Battleship [Archive]

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Ger_mark

07-11-2006, 06:24 AM

http://i6.tinypic.com/1zlvgpv.jpg

http://www.network54.com/PersonalPhotos/1152454723.JPG

armament:

-155mm PZH2000 Turret (Most likely V-Lap Ammo with 70km Range)

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/mauser/monarc.jpg

- Navalized MLRS (New Guided MLRS)

http://www.wsmr-history.org/Photos/ParkPhotos/mlrs.jpg

- 6 Bullet CIWS Systems

http://www.sipotec.net/Bilder/S33_B1.gif

- 2 Sea RAM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile_Launcher_1.jpg/621px-RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile_Launcher_1.jpg

- 8 RBS15 MK3 ASHM with secondary cruise missile capability

http://www.marine.de/02DB070000000001/CurrentBaseLink/W26ARF9N980INFODE/$FILE/RBS15_600x550-640x599.jpg

-Underwaterdrone

http://www.marine.de/02DB070000000001/CurrentBaseLink/W26D6DCT275INFODE/$FILE/AUWD-640x450.jpg

- 2 NH90

http://www.agustawestland.com/dinimg/NH90_04gra.jpg

- 4 33ft Speedboats (The Ships supply's 50 special forces (KSK...ect.) with extra command room ect.)

Luno

07-11-2006, 06:55 AM

The new Type 125 class (frigates) is looking nice and I am hopping to see her in funchal next year :)

perdurabo

07-11-2006, 06:58 AM

it's just a frigate not mini-batleship ;) altough i must say that it has prabably as much power as ww2 cruiser
some project data

Length: 139m (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre)
Beam: 18 m
Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_%28nautical%29): 5 m
Displacement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage): around 5500t (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_tonne)
Propulsion: CODLAG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_diesel-electric_and_gasturbine)
1 20MW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt) gas turbine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_turbine)
2 4.7MW electric motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motors)
4 2.9MW diesel generators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_generator)
3 gearboxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gearbox): 2 for each shaft and one to crossconnect the gasturbines to them.
2 shafts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller_shaft), driving controllable pitch propellers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controllable_pitch_propeller)
Speed: 20kts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_%28speed%29) on diesel only, 26—27kts max.
Range: 4000nm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile)
1 1MW bow thruster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_thruster)
Sensors:
1 Phased array (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phased_array) radar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar)
2(?) navigation radars
IFF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe) mode S
Sonar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonar)
Laser warning
FL1800S ESM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_warfare_support_measures) suite
Communications: Link 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_11), Link 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16), Link 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_22)
Countermeasures:
4 Decoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoy) launchers
ECM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_counter-measures)
Armament:
8 anti-ship missiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile), either AGM-84 Harpoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-84_Harpoon) or RBS 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBS_15) Mk3
1 navalized MLRS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLRS), 12 rockets with reloads
2 RAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile) surface-to-air missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-air_missile) launcher/CIWS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-in_weapon_system), 21 cells each
1 155 mm gun, based on the turret of the PzH 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PzH_2000). This has been tested previously in the MONARC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONARC) project.
2 27 mm MLG 27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLG_27) autocannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocannon)
5 12.7 mm heavy machine guns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun)
Water cannons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cannon)
Other equippement:
2 search lights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_light)
Submarine ROVs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remotely_operated_vehicle)
4 11 m dinghies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinghy), over 40kts fast
Space for two 6.1 m container (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containerization)
Hangar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangar) facility: 2 MH-90 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NH-90) helicopters
Complement: 160 (including 50 KSK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSK)/commando (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando))

easyand

07-11-2006, 07:07 AM

Still prefer FREMMs ;-)

Exer

07-11-2006, 07:11 AM

I like it! especially the camo on the turret

Heron

07-11-2006, 07:19 AM

powerful one

great

PrinzEugen

07-11-2006, 07:23 AM

Exer

07-11-2006, 07:32 AM

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! What the hell! thats.. sniff.. i want one too :(

PrinzEugen

07-11-2006, 07:34 AM

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! What the hell! thats.. sniff.. i want one too :(

Lol,me to! It took him 4 years to build, and he estimates 2 more to complete it.

Frost

07-11-2006, 07:51 AM

I like it! especially the camo on the turret
That was a test-turret taken from a Pzh2000. The real turret will be a differnt design and painted grey obviously

Ger_mark

07-11-2006, 07:55 AM

Still prefer FREMMs ;-)
Not same class, F125 is for Land attacks and direct fire support for the special forces. I prefer F123 with ESSM and completely new computersystems to FREMM p-)

http://i6.tinypic.com/1zn7q84.jpg

Exer

07-11-2006, 08:04 AM

That was a test-turret taken from a Pzh2000. The real turret will be a differnt design and painted grey obviously - How different?

Lol,me to! It took him 4 years to build, and he estimates 2 more to complete it You know him?! i want info! i want a phone number and a adresse where the ship is stored!

Frost

07-11-2006, 08:10 AM

- How different?

How should I know. But I'm sure it needs some different electronics for tageting because of the constant movement of the ship. Perheps better (faster) motors for moving the barrel, stuff like that. And perhaps a bit more armor. I seriously doubt you can simply slap an arty turret on a ship without some modifications. They might even give the whole turret a redesign

PrinzEugen

07-11-2006, 08:27 AM

You know him?! i want info! i want a phone number and a adresse where the ship is stored![/quote]

No, just found it the other day, PM:d you the link.

ElHombre

07-11-2006, 10:17 AM

Germany's new mini Battleship

shouldn't that be 'pocket battleship'? ;-)

thanks for the pics.

He219

07-11-2006, 10:37 AM

shouldn't that be 'pocket battleship'? ;-)

thanks for the pics.
Nah, it can't even be considered a cruiser, yet alone a pocket battleship.

It's clearly referenced as a Frigate/Fregatte FS-125 ..

The translation of German to English must have erred, and woud be Warship, not Battleship.
;)

Ger_mark

07-11-2006, 10:59 AM

the topic was a tribute to the pzh2000 turret and MLRS ;)

He219

07-11-2006, 11:09 AM

Ehr, ok - in that case it must be a Panzerschlachtschiff!1!Eleven!1!
p-)

saigonsmuggler

07-11-2006, 11:46 AM

- 6 Bullet CIWS Systems

http://www.sipotec.net/Bilder/S33_B1.gif

6 bullets? C'mon brady's bill shouldn't be applied here! :)

noFlooder

07-11-2006, 01:00 PM

goat89

07-11-2006, 01:29 PM

Heard about the Leopard turret. Damn cool! Nice pics btw!

Count Lippe

07-11-2006, 02:38 PM

That's not the leopard turret, it's the Pzh 2000. different caliber, different mission.

BTW, why did that guy write ME 109E on his model?

variable

07-11-2006, 03:29 PM

Maybe the ship was sunk by one? Or he wanted to fly a Messerschmidt in the first place but couldnt afford one...so he changed his mind a built ship but to honour the aircraft he gave the ship the name of the aircraft :D

Best theory ever...

ben

nullterm

07-11-2006, 03:40 PM

That's not the leopard turret, it's the Pzh 2000. different caliber, different mission.

BTW, why did that guy write ME 109E on his model?

If you make a working model ship that big, you can call it whatever you like. p-)

Eddy

07-11-2006, 03:46 PM

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9569&d=1152616946

Pfffrrrrr... If it was the Millenium Falcon, everybody would call him a geek !

wicked_hind

07-11-2006, 07:36 PM

I'm waiting for the guy from the VW Jetta commercial to say "German Engineering"

AVZ

08-03-2006, 11:13 AM

PPT of the Monarc concept from 2004 but new to me....

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004guns/fri/kruse.ppt

lightfire

08-03-2006, 01:29 PM

I thought this was there new battleship?p-)

"The model is scratch build like a canoe using 2,54 - 10,16 cm (1 - 4 in) bass wood strips and then covered with fiberglass.
Estimated weight 318 kg (700 lbs).
The beam is 1,32 meter (52 in).
The length is about 9,1 meter (30 foot).
It can carry 2 persons.
The model is powered by a 15 hp (11,2 kw) outboard engine under rear gun turret.
It can sail 24 kilometer per hour (15 mph).
Furthermore the model has a music system build in.
While William Terra cruise the lakes of Maine he enjoy listen to Wagner.
The Commander-in-Chief in the photographs below is William Terra.
William Terra would like to see more models build in this scale."

I was looking to this and...
Are there any UWVs in the world? i.e. Unmaned Water Vehicles..If Unmaned plane can fly,carry Hellfire missiles,why can't such vehicle operate on the water?Maybe not for reconaisance(but could be as well),but could work as a platform for exocets,machine gun pods. Mini subs work to hunt the mines,why can't they carry torpedoes?
(it might be just a new topic)

Oh,and by the way...
German Frigate rocks:-P Want one for our navy to change the retireing two russian built frigates.

variable

08-04-2006, 04:41 AM

Nah, it can't even be considered a cruiser, yet alone a pocket battleship.

It's clearly referenced as a Frigate/Fregatte FS-125 ..

The translation of German to English must have erred, and woud be Warship, not Battleship.
;)

I think if you only judge by its proportions it's a destroyer. Only it's called frigate for political reasons.

Latin Jewish Soldier

08-04-2006, 07:16 AM

I really like the pZH-2000 MLRS combo.Reminds me of the days of the old dread knoughts.

Durandal

08-04-2006, 11:45 AM

That's not the leopard turret, it's the Pzh 2000. different caliber, different mission.

BTW, why did that guy write ME 109E on his model?

Its the boat license number.

Pretty smart too...

ME is (Maine). If he lived in Ohio it would OH 109. Which of course would be "less" cool.

and then he probably requested 109...

That said, cool model, but its sounds like dude is a Nazi-phile. Not a horrible thing, just always odd.

"likes Wagner" *chuckle*

apm

08-07-2006, 09:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fkWTISxYu8

zulu261

08-08-2006, 06:44 AM

6 bullets? C'mon brady's bill shouldn't be applied here! :)

Little translation mistake...6 barrels would be the deal.

Violet Fashion by Mindy

08-08-2006, 09:07 AM

Now if missiles are replacing big guns why are navies still investing in guns for their warships?

apm

08-08-2006, 09:44 AM

juliuspret

08-08-2006, 10:04 AM

Now if missiles are replacing big guns why are navies still investing in guns for their warships?

Off the top of my head its got to do with the Falklands War and its use for land attack without wasteing expensive missiles.

That 155mm turret is really impressive....but can it do the job?

Isbjoern

08-08-2006, 11:01 AM

Its the boat license number.

Pretty smart too...

ME is (Maine). If he lived in Ohio it would OH 109. Which of course would be "less" cool.

and then he probably requested 109...

That said, cool model, but its sounds like dude is a Nazi-phile. Not a horrible thing, just always odd.

"likes Wagner" *chuckle*

...I think I did want my own battleship when I was about ten y.o.... and Wagner? ...and ME109??? This guy is a mixture of Karl Dönitz and Peter Pan... :-D

Durandal

08-08-2006, 07:43 PM

That 155mm turret is really impressive....but can it do the job?

Yes, though why they aren't using a rapid fire 5" style gun is odd.

Ships need at least one gun. Munitions are cheaper and there are plenty of types of munitions for them, even laser and GPS guided 5" rounds for indirect fire.

BusterHyman

08-08-2006, 10:58 PM

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9569&d=1152616946

Pfffrrrrr... If it was the Millenium Falcon, everybody would call him a geek !

Those glasses look to be the wrong scale.

unit299_09

08-09-2006, 03:13 AM

That's not the leopard turret, it's the Pzh 2000. different caliber, different mission.

BTW, why did that guy write ME 109E on his model?
i guess he wanted to build a plane and after 2000 hours of working
he realized "damn i made a mistake"

or he hopes that it will learn to fly soon...

CruddyLeper

08-09-2006, 03:23 AM

Now if missiles are replacing big guns why are navies still investing in guns for their warships?

Apart from reasons already stated... a missile is overkill against certain naval targets.

Soviet era spy trawlers come to mind, as well as insurgent vessels used in the Gulf.

Plus, it's very hard to put a shot over the bows with a missile... can act as a warning for a ship to heave to, ie drug runners and similar.

meva

08-09-2006, 12:22 PM

There are many reasons why modern warships still have guns. Primary reason being they still can do the job. For example 155mm gun with modern ammo is not to be taken lightly, it packs some serious punch. Both the firepower and accuracy are such that it is not very pleasant at the receiving end. German ships also have the Baltic as one of their main areas of operation and in the Baltic battles are likely to happen either in an archipelago or otherwise confined area where the range of the guns is sufficient.

Guns are also very resistant to jamming and other modern countermeasures. If enemy position is known even roughly, guns can start to shell the area systematically in hopes of hitting the enemy.

-meva-

JoaMei

08-09-2006, 02:28 PM

somehow a good question, i think it has something to do with the costs....why buys our army the pzh-2000 sph if we have the mlrs wich can hit targets on the same distance? i´d really they want to save money...

MRLS have a comparably high minimum range of at least 10 km so everything under that range will make the Gun necessary.
MRLS can not do supressive fire, after firing all rockets it takes some time to reload, the Gun can keep firing for several minutes.

Il Barbarossa

09-30-2006, 07:14 AM

Interesting article for those of you that understand German:

http://www.dmkn.de/1779/ruestung.nsf/0838A1DF6D7B2877C12571F4002B70A3/$File/fregatte_f125.pdf

variable

09-30-2006, 07:17 AM

Wann wird die erste Einheit der Marine zugeführt?

Il Barbarossa

09-30-2006, 07:22 AM

From what I've read, ships will be commissioned starting in 2012.

variable

09-30-2006, 07:26 AM

By that time, technology will probably be more advanced and the F125 obsolete... They should hurry up.

unpredictable

09-30-2006, 07:57 AM

great ship this

Il Barbarossa

09-30-2006, 08:30 AM

By that time, technology will probably be more advanced and the F125 obsolete... They should hurry up.

Ships are usually in service for at least 20 odd years so I don't think you can say it'll be obsolete 5 years from now. The Bremen class was built in the early 80s and it'll be replaced by the F125.

Zwetschge

09-30-2006, 08:47 AM

[quote=Ger_mark;1771761]

http://www.wsmr-history.org/Photos/ParkPhotos/mlrs.jpg

PIcture is form white sands, right?

Mangusta CBT

04-03-2007, 06:23 PM

JoaMei

04-03-2007, 06:44 PM

Makes sense, the higher rate of Fire with cooling is useful.

v.Manstein

04-03-2007, 09:07 PM

BTW The Navalized MLRS was also canceled because of technical problems :bash:

variable

04-04-2007, 03:37 AM

muck

04-04-2007, 03:42 AM

Today the Italian Defence undersecretary Lorenzo Forcieri says that Germany have selected the OTO Melara 127 LW naval cannon (ready for OTO "Vulcano" guided shell) for F-125 frigates :)

Article in Italian

http://www.cittadellaspezia.com/leggi_articolo.asp?id=20139&sp=10

Does that mean they have chosen it to replace the MONARC-project? That would be sad, I love the idea of a cannon able to engage targets more than 60 km away - a kind of old battleship feeling! :)

However, I hope they continue development and do not cancel it again due to financial problems. As I understand it, this happens quite often in Germany.

easyand

04-04-2007, 06:41 AM

with the 127mm and Vulcano you can engage targets 70km away ;-)

muck

04-04-2007, 07:32 AM

with the 127mm and Vulcano you can engage targets 70km away ;-)

May be so, but for what purpose was MONARC tested then if an equal system was already known?

Navor

04-04-2007, 09:16 AM

So that the German Defence Industry would play a more bigger part in the project and less foreign systems included.
Hopefully they issue this cnanon to Sachsen and Brandenburg Class as well

easyand

04-04-2007, 09:19 AM

So that the German Defence Industry would play a more bigger part in the project and less foreign systems included.
Hopefully they issue this cnanon to Sachsen and Brandenburg Class as well

the article says that the contract includes the modernization of the F124 artillery and unmanned 12,7 turret from OTO Melara

Mangusta CBT

04-04-2007, 12:20 PM

The same article in English

OTO Melara Wins Major Naval Order from Germany for 127LW Guns

(Source: Città della Spezia; issued April 3, 2007)

(Issued in Italian; unofficial translation by defense-aerospace.com)

LA SPEZIA, Italy --- Italian Undersecretary of Defence Lorenzo Forcieri announced today that Germany has accepted an offer for the supply of 127 LW Vulcano cannons, produced by OTO Melara, for the German Navy’s new F125 frigates.

“During my recent visit to Germany, I discussed the issue of OTO’s offer with my German counterpart, Peter Eickenboom. I stressed that Germany must adequately compensate the major investment that Italy is making in German submarines and related weapon systems. My argument was bolstered by the fact that OTO Melara is the world leader in the naval artillery sector, and that its leading-edge products attain an absolute level of excellence,” Forcieri said.

The five German frigates will thus be fitted with Italian main guns. The order is valued at 70 to 100 million euros. For the same ships, Germany has also selected the remotely-controlled 12.7 Hitrole-NT machine-gun stations, for a contract valued at 10 million euros.

“Furthermore,” said Forcieri, “OTO will also be awarded the refitting and upgrade contract for the guns in service on the older F124-class frigates of the German Navy.”

The contracts are to be signed in September, once the funding for the F125 frigates has been approved by the Bundestag.

“I am pleased that these long negotiations have been concluded to the satisfaction of our industry. This success, in addition to demonstrating the high degree of competitiveness of our country’s defence industry, will provide OTO with a significant workload over the coming years. And other contracts, that I hope will also be successfully concluded, are also being negotiated,” Forcieri concluded.

soldier20

04-08-2007, 05:47 AM

so can still also hunt down other ships

JoaMei

04-08-2007, 06:49 AM

The PzH2000 was sucessfully tested in the coastal Artillery role and is well capable to hit naval targets.... but...

Reasons for this decision, apart from the political because of the submarine deal, may be the lack of watercooling and application against aerial Targets.

soldier20

04-08-2007, 07:44 AM

yeah but it wont be as accurate as a missile

Bert

04-08-2007, 08:19 AM

No MLRS, no MONARC.. It gets turned into 'just another European frigate' with four tenders and space for a few soldiers..:-(

Navor

04-08-2007, 08:25 AM

Well Oto offers more capabillities than MONARC and at the moment more range so its truelly better.
And MLRS was always **** because you have just 12 Ready rounds with range up to 60km,so with less range than the Arty.And this would you have to operate in SSM range from land,bad idea ask the Israelis.

easyand

04-08-2007, 08:48 AM

No MLRS, no MONARC.. It gets turned into 'just another European frigate' with four tenders and space for a few soldiers..:-(

at this point Germany should join Italy and France on the FREMM project!

Navor

04-08-2007, 08:50 AM

Yep thats the point.
If we would join them we could maybe buy more than the 4 F125

Mangusta CBT

04-08-2007, 11:37 AM

Why German delete Guided MLRS from F-125?

Ddavid

04-08-2007, 01:41 PM

at this point Germany should join Italy and France on the FREMM project!

They might but it's unlikely because the industrial shares are already dispatched between france and italy shipbuilders. For Germany to join in, it would require a difficult agreement while german syndicates and industrials will more likely result in a indigeous design.
But wait and see.

I am ambigous with this ship. Excellent RBS15 surface to surface missiles, but medium air defense while there is the Aster system next door, or even the SM-2MR. At least its a stealth frigate.

easyand

04-08-2007, 02:16 PM

FREMM are a bit more cheap than the F125 due to the big series (27 ships total) and cost shareing, and maybe germany could get the Scalp Naval

JoaMei

04-08-2007, 02:24 PM

So, without the MLRS there is some space available perhaps for a second gun or a VLS?

Lewis

04-08-2007, 07:43 PM

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/mauser/monarc.jpg

This looks..er..strange

sferrin

04-08-2007, 07:57 PM

Why German delete Guided MLRS from F-125?

Because Lockheed (or more likely the USN) killed the program.

Invisigoth

04-09-2007, 09:33 AM

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractor_images/mauser/monarc.jpg

This looks..er..strange

Looks like a tank got stuck popping its head up...

kk111

04-09-2007, 06:33 PM

it´s from a Panzerhaubitze2000

http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/img/product/ls_pzh2000.jpg

Il Barbarossa

04-09-2007, 06:54 PM

Does anybody know when the Bundestag will finally vote on this? Or will the design get a total overhaul?

Il Barbarossa

05-12-2007, 04:42 PM

Apparently the defense comittee will deal with this before the summer break. The companies in charge of the project have already settled on who will build what.

fish&chips

05-18-2007, 10:44 AM

According to Dagmar Wöhl, coordinator for maritime economy, the Bundestag will soon decide about the contract. Blohm & Voss, Lürssen Shipyards and Nordseewerke Emden will reportedly start building later this year. The first delivery is planned for 2013:

(in German only)
http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2007/05/18/742030.html

Il Barbarossa

06-20-2007, 04:16 PM

The budget committee has given the green light for the purchase of 4 frigates. Here's an updated rendering:

http://www.imagehack.eu/de/uploads/3e0476c27c.jpg

Eggy

06-20-2007, 04:36 PM

The Germans should have just stuck with the Dutch LCF specs instead of trying out those exotic features. But it's easy to judge afterwards.

Pille1234

06-20-2007, 05:46 PM

The Germans should have just stuck with the Dutch LCF specs instead of trying out those exotic features. But it's easy to judge afterwards.
I'm afraid I have to agree with you.
Well maybe the ships will be a positive surprise after all...

JoaMei

06-20-2007, 06:05 PM

Well, depends... these ships are certainly better suited for Peacekeeping than other Frigate designs. But they have not the equipment to fulfill a Mission that needs a fully armed Frigate.

At least the have space left for a VLS and Radar, if Money is available they can be upgraded.

easyand

06-20-2007, 06:25 PM

what? no radar??

Eggy

06-20-2007, 06:26 PM

Ugh nevermind. The German Sachsen (F124) frigate is fairly similar to the LCF already. You could add landstrike capabilities to those frigates though. Might be a better option.

vajt

06-21-2007, 10:29 AM

Well isn't a big part of the whole F125 it's modularity? Don't they have space to be able to add and remove modules as needed for specific missions, such as if more emphasis is needed for land attack or for air defense?

-----JT-----

JoaMei

06-21-2007, 10:51 AM

what? no radar??

It has a radar but not one needed for long range Airdefense with SM-2, ESSM.

muck

06-21-2007, 11:04 AM

JoaMei

06-21-2007, 11:19 AM

That's a joke.

roflWe already have Russian circumstances here, concerning our low budget.

Instead of cancelling the senseless MEADS-project, we buy frigates that cannot defend themselves against enemy aircrafts.

What is sensless about MEADS?

And the RAM system on the F125 at least gives some short range self defense capability against Aircrafts and Missiles.

Herman the II

12-08-2007, 08:04 AM

An updated sketch of the F125:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k279/shipbucket/Alternate%20Universe/DFFKlasse1253AU.gif

And a .pdf presentation by TyssenKrupp about the F125(German):
http://www.dmkn.de/1779/technologie.nsf/F323E66E09043779C12573A100547EC1/$File/40-43_fregatte_125.pdf

I somehow begin to like the idea behind the F125....

Steve Railsback

12-08-2007, 10:36 AM

Interesting

have they decided on the combat boat 90?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k279/shipbucket/Alternate%20Universe/DFFKlasse1253AU.gif

Herman the II

12-08-2007, 10:47 AM

They are pending between the CB 90 or the Jurmo class, I don't know if there was a decision jet. Some month ago a combat support ship of the German Navy tested if those ships are compatible to the German cargo bays and cranes.(http://www.virtual.finland.fi/stt/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=16223&group=General)

hiperipis1979

12-08-2007, 11:24 AM

Ugh nevermind. The German Sachsen (F124) frigate is fairly similar to the LCF already.

F124 is an air defense frigate (basically a destroyer) like the Dutch Seven Provencien Class or like British Daring Class. It has nothing (really nothing!) to do with an LCF.

You could add landstrike capabilities to those frigates though. Might be a better option.

That is not that easy. The VLS is of type/length "Tactical" and not "Strike", which makes it too short for cruise missiles. However, the Dutch Seven Provencien Class has got the Strike-length VLS.
Eventually they will replace the Harpoon with RBS-15Mk4, which will give a limited land attack capability. There is also a navalized KEPD Taurus under development, but with a still "unmentioned" fate.

It has a radar but not one needed for long range Airdefense with SM-2, ESSM.

The radar is OK for ESSM, but they will need a VLS for that. The article below is still avoiding to commit on an VLS, although there is obviously room for it. That decision may go hand in hand with the decision concerning the navalized Taurus which does not fit in the the Mk.41/57 VLS or the Sylver VLS, but needs a dedicated launcher.

What is sensless about MEADS?

There are enough reasons to confront MEADS. Too much money for too less additional capabilities that nobody had asked for in German Air Force. There is a famous quote from a THALES executive that one could upgrade Patriot with 10% of the money that MEADS costs and would arrive at 90-95% of its capabilities. This a purely political driven project, that costs lots of money that could be used better for other things right now. Patriot PAC2/2 GEM is still top-notch equipment.

sp2c

12-08-2007, 11:35 AM

F124 is an air defense frigate (basically a destroyer) like the Dutch Seven Provencien Class or like British Daring Class. It has nothing (really nothing!) to do with an LCF.

well, there has been some cooperation under the trilateral frigate agreement (ship's hull mostly afaik) and it uses the same sensor suite so I wouldn't say nothing ;)

the Spanish F100 class ships were also included but they went for Aegis

Eggy

12-08-2007, 12:12 PM

F124 is an air defense frigate (basically a destroyer) like the Dutch Seven Provencien Class or like British Daring Class. It has nothing (really nothing!) to do with an LCF.

Over here the Zeven Provincien class is also known as LCF which stands for "luchtverdedigings en commando fregat" (in English that would mean air defence and command frigate).

That is not that easy. The VLS is of type/length "Tactical" and not "Strike", which makes it too short for cruise missiles. However, the Dutch Seven Provencien Class has got the Strike-length VLS.
Eventually they will replace the Harpoon with RBS-15Mk4, which will give a limited land attack capability. There is also a navalized KEPD Taurus under development, but with a still "unmentioned" fate.

Ah ok I did not know about the different canister type.

Detective

12-08-2007, 12:14 PM

Nice ship! I wish Slovene's army would use at least one of them XD

gj for the engeenirs

Kobus

10-15-2008, 08:56 AM

oto melara Vulcano precision projectile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckj3Cc1fACc

http://lh4.ggpht.com/kobus.nl/SPWrzYO9XdI/AAAAAAAAHi8/CC3oplQJjYM/s400/f125.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/T68ZQo5RRg_8KS5aUVy0wQ)

Praet

10-15-2008, 09:53 AM

Why quote completely outdated data? This only keeps it on top and causes confusion.

Praet

10-15-2008, 10:10 AM

It would surely help if mp.net would display date&time with the quotes :D

Navalized MLRS died, so did MONARC. In fact, the Type 125 are heavily armed large OPVs that cost more per unit than a Type 124 AAW frigate. Yay. I wouldnt get too excited about this one...

Herman the II

08-14-2009, 02:40 AM

Seems the first F125 will get into production next year instead of 2011/12.

Im Gegenzug zu dieser Standortgarantie für den Militärschiffbau der TKMS soll die Bundesregierung den Auftrag für den Neubau einer Fregatte von 2014 auf nächstes Jahr vorziehen, heißt es im Umfeld des Bundesverteidigungsministeriums.

http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/thyssen-krupp-blohm-voss-wird-nicht-verkauft;2444721