We lose powers by June

[Geezah]

EU leaders last night set a target deadline of the end of June for an agreement on a constitution which will sign away 1,000 years of British history.


The constitution will see Britain surrendering dozens of powers to Brussels including law and order, immigration control and even some parts of the economy.

The move comes on the eve of crunch talks between the member states in Brussels.

Portuguese Premier Jose Barroso signalled on Wednesday that a deal could be completed within weeks.

The new EU blueprint stalled at Christmas when Spain and Poland refused to sign up to the small print.

Critics hoped the project would be abandoned.

But European leaders redoubled their efforts after Spain elected a pro-Euro government in the wake of the Madrid bombs.

Critics warn the constitution — which will be legally binding — will leave our Parliament as no more than a regional assembly.


Oh boy.......

[big_les]

Potentially worrying, but I think by 'critics' they mean Tories ;)

Do you have a source for this?

[Pad75]

And you don't surrender to the US?

Double standards.

[Kitsune]

The way Blair lied to his own people to please the Americans, you talk about "British power"? :lol:

But the British parliament will hardly loose its power. With this Constitution Britain stays a sovereign power, that can leave the EU anytime it wants. No one forced you to join.
If you don't like it, leave. The EU is to big anyway.

[TALOS]

And you don't surrender to the US?

Double standards.
HAHA, I am assuming you are implying that they have already, that just killls me. Big difference between being agreeable with the US and supportive of them and surrenduring alot of your political and actual powers to the EU.

[Kitsune]

Yes there is a difference. With the EU Britain has something to say. With the US they just have to follow.

[big_les]

I think Tony's hedging his bets because the EU is such a young establishment, and the US such a fickle (too-powerful) ally. Best to 'service' both of them, and then light the cigarettes afterwards...

[perdurabo]

EU constitution is on the way few days ago our gov. said that they will go on compromise with France and Germany (we wanted constitution but not that voting system)

[fdt]

EU leaders last night set a target deadline of the end of June for an agreement on a constitution which will sign away 1,000 years of British history.


The constitution will see Britain surrendering dozens of powers to Brussels including law and order, immigration control and even some parts of the economy.

The move comes on the eve of crunch talks between the member states in Brussels.

Portuguese Premier Jose Barroso signalled on Wednesday that a deal could be completed within weeks.

The new EU blueprint stalled at Christmas when Spain and Poland refused to sign up to the small print.

Critics hoped the project would be abandoned.

But European leaders redoubled their efforts after Spain elected a pro-Euro government in the wake of the Madrid bombs.

Critics warn the constitution — which will be legally binding — will leave our Parliament as no more than a regional assembly.


Oh boy.......I must say I am really amused with British attitude. Tony "love me all or I will cry" has hidden behind Spain and Poland's back hoping that they will gather all fire from France and Germany... instead of opposing the constitution along with Warsaw and Madrid . "Critics hoped the project would be abandoned. " ... Yeah Spain and Poland were supposed to make all the dirty job, and UK was supposed only to benefit from their resistance without pissing off Chrac and Schroder... Cool tactics... fighting to the last Spanish and Polish negotiator... Problem is that Spain and Poland refuse to do so... and now Tony will have to take it all. There will be no excuses, Blair will have to tell his electorate that he is surrendering the big chunk of the UK's sovereignity to Brussels for the sake of.... hell knows what.

Problem for Tony is that, in fact he has already said "Yes" to the constitution (apparently hoping it will be wrecked anyway) and now he has no room for eventual manouevering... pity, isn't it? If joined the Spain and Poland in December 2003 now he would be able to put some additional conditions on the table... As he didn't do it before ... he can't do it now.

[HELEX]

Well, Britain can leave th EU if they want to. The can still be a part of the united states if they prefer that. ;)

[Pad75]

Problem for Tony is that, in fact he has already said "Yes" to the constitution (apparently hoping it will be wrecked anyway) and now he has no room for eventual manouevering... pity, isn't it? If joined the Spain and Poland in December 2003 now he would be able to put some additional conditions on the table... As he didn't do it before ... he can't do it now.

Well you can still leave the EU and ask the United State to become the 51 state.

[Pad75]

Hey Helex! :)
We wrote that at the same time.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Using the title 'We will lose powers by June" and the 'we' would include you Geeza I can assume that you are not an American citizen or maybe you hope to move back to the UK some time in the future?
As for the critics I think its safe to say we are talking about the UKIP or the Tories who themselves are divided on the matter.

[HELEX]

No, I was faster :P

[fdt]

No, I was faster :PI thought it faster than You wrote it... :D

[Geezah]

Potentially worrying, but I think by 'critics' they mean Tories ;)

Do you have a source for this?

It was the Sun online,

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004140899,00.html

[Geezah]

Using the title 'We will lose powers by June" and the 'we' would include you Geeza I can assume that you are not an American citizen or maybe you hope to move back to the UK some time in the future?
As for the critics I think its safe to say we are talking about the UKIP or the Tories who themselves are divided on the matter.

Hey the title came direct from the Sun online nothing to do with me and no I'm not yet an American Citizen(Resident Alien) as far as moving back.....doubt it!

[big_les]

:lol: Figures. I don't claim to know enough about the EU situation these days, but you must expect a paper like the Sun to put some negative spin on Europe-related news.

[ShadowNeo]

The Sun doesn't exactly have the most intelligent readerbase or content.... I hardly ever read it.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The Sun like all Murdoch rags seems to follow the whims and fancies of the master, its rarley objective in any way, the page 3 chicks are getting way to skinny these days as well. :(

[Geezah]

The Sun doesn't exactly have the most intelligent readerbase or content.... I hardly ever read it.

Wow......so I take it you won't lower yourself to read some crap...well hopefully I'm not included in that comment of yours seeing as I read the SUN, Telegraph and BBC news online! :|

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The Daily Sport has about the same news content as the Sun but with more exposed flesh and a fairly decent contacts section you know the kind I mean "Busty Tran****** wants Gimp for messy fun". :)

[ShadowNeo]

Don't get your knickers in a twist Geezah, simply stating my opinion on the Sun, as I don't find it to be the "best read" around. Read any of the paper-printed Sun material and you may have a simmilar view.

As for the European Constitution, i'm personally not opposed to it. I don't see it as "surrendering tradition". Im all for further integration with the EU and I hope we do so in the long run.

[Geezah]

Don't get your knickers in a twist Geezah, simply stating my opinion on the Sun, as I don't find it to be the "best read" around.


I thought you were stating your opinion on the Sun readers?

[ShadowNeo]

I tend to find that the people who read the sun aren't reading it for the most intelligent articles. By that I am referring to the printed newspaper, not the "online paper".

[army cadet_ngcsu]

How do most of the British feel about the EU... I mean the UK still hasn't adopted the currency yet and has historically been hestitant to participate in the EU.

The UK does not have to do what the US says it has to do. After all, Canada and Mexico gave us the finger in regards to Iraq and in other issues. He participated in the Iraq War on his own accord and time will show (just as in Vietnam) that he did the right thing.

Besides, I believe that it is no coincidence that many of the former British colonies are conservative minded pro military like people (all though this is not the case for all of the countries). There are a substantial amount of people in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, etc. that all disagree with the war, but there are also a substantial amount of people who still support it and there is much more support for it than in other countries like France, Germany, Brazil, Spain, etc.

By all means...correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just giving my opinion. I am also not to current on public opinion polls so...

[ShadowNeo]

I am very strongly supportive of the EU, I believe continued involvement will be good for the UK in the long term.

The main reason we haven't adopted the Euro yet though is down to several economic reasons, from what I believe many of the main countries in the EU are in a slump/recession, and with the UK currently in a boom period, it would not be the best thing to change in the current position. I believe there is also the matter of getting interest rates down to a simmilar level of those in the EU, in order to help the transition of currency.

Opinion concerning Iraq in the UK seems to be as it has always been, around half and half.

[Threelions]

I'm whole heartedly against the EU. I see it as a direct threat to the sovereignty of the UK. I dispise the idea of having europeans having control over my country. In the words of margaret thatcher, the only things europes given us this century is 2 world wars, communism, and fascism. I will take it one step further and think the UK even needs to devolve. Give England its own parliment and let all the home nations decide EU policy on their own.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Give England its own parliment and let all the home nations decide EU policy on their own.
Cool we get to keep the oil. :)

[fdt]

I'm whole heartedly against the EU. I see it as a direct threat to the sovereignty of the UK. I dispise the idea of having europeans having control over my country. In the words of margaret thatcher, the only things europes given us this century is 2 world wars, communism, and fascism. I will take it one step further and think the UK even needs to devolve. Give England its own parliment and let all the home nations decide EU policy on their own.Tell it Tony...

[Threelions]

Hey enjoy that oil!

[SwissGrenadier]

How do most of the British feel about the EU... I mean the UK still hasn't adopted the currency yet and has historically been hestitant to participate in the EU.

The UK does not have to do what the US says it has to do. After all, Canada and Mexico gave us the finger in regards to Iraq and in other issues. He participated in the Iraq War on his own accord and time will show (just as in Vietnam) that he did the right thing.

Besides, I believe that it is no coincidence that many of the former British colonies are conservative minded pro military like people (all though this is not the case for all of the countries). There are a substantial amount of people in the UK, US, Canada, Australia, etc. that all disagree with the war, but there are also a substantial amount of people who still support it and there is much more support for it than in other countries like France, Germany, Brazil, Spain, etc.

By all means...correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just giving my opinion. I am also not to current on public opinion polls so...

good post army cadet ngscu!

IMHO the opinions of the different governments influenced the opinions of their people.what i mean is that if gerhard commie schroder was on tv, journalists asked him about what he thought about the war.he said that he was against it bla bla then the average german thought hmm he's chancellor he must know what's right.and in the end the majority of germans were against the war ,because of the opinion of schroder and his government.probably if schroder and his government had been for the war, the german people would have supported it too.it certainly was the same in france and britain, australia (except they were pro war).

by the way there are alot of germans who didn't vote for schroder and don't support his foreign policy.in fact u won't find many countries were the PEOPLE are as pro american as in germany trust me, i know what i'm talking about.even the people who went in the streets to demonstrate against the war disagree with bush but don't hate the average american, as it was probably showed on fox news...

adios :)

[von_Moo142]

How do most of the British feel about the EU

Your a braver man that me, asking things like that :-)


I am somewhat pro-euro myself. We have a problem in the UK with the decline of the manufacturing industry, which is partly caused by the strong pound (this makes it expensive for other countries to import our stuff). The euro would help here, at least within europe.

As for the whole EU constitution thing, I have nothing against it. I'm not convinced we need more beaurocracy though.

[ShadowNeo]

I would prefer further integration with the EU than continued devolution, personally.

Granted, devolution does help highlight nation/region specific topics and address them, but to me it seems to encourage too much "inward thinking", to me its like re-erecting barriers that were broken down a long time ago.

[TALOS]

I would prefer further integration with the EU than continued devolution, personally.

Granted, devolution does help highlight nation/region specific topics and address them, but to me it seems to encourage too much "inward thinking", to me its like re-erecting barriers that were broken down a long time ago.
I am not going to claim any knowledge in the EU constitution but I am curious to know if someone could explain in laymans terms why europe needs to have one constitution for all the countries? Am I misunderstanding the concept here?

[wholagun]

must say I am really amused with British attitude. Tony "love me all or I will cry" has hidden behind Spain and Poland's back hoping that they will gather all fire from France and Germany... instead of opposing the constitution along with Warsaw and Madrid . "Critics hoped the project would be abandoned. " ... Yeah Spain and Poland were supposed to make all the dirty job, and UK was supposed only to benefit from their resistance without pissing off Chrac and Schroder... Cool tactics... fighting to the last Spanish and Polish negotiator... Problem is that Spain and Poland refuse to do so... and now Tony will have to take it all. There will be no excuses, Blair will have to tell his electorate that he is surrendering the big chunk of the UK's sovereignity to Brussels for the sake of.... hell knows what.


@FDT
**** you beat me to it. I was gonna write that about Tony Blair, hiding behind Spain and Poland.
Personally i was always behind the double majority I think that Poland needs to make freinds not enemies in Europe, we are not a small state so we won't be that week with a double majority and we will get alot of money from th EU so I think that its best to be friends then to make a fuss and bite the hand that feeds you. I hope that any new Polish government supports the double majority and I hope that the people vote yes in the constitution referendum.
however now with France, Germany, Spain and Poland negoitating I think that it may be even better then it was like time, this time te constitution will be fairer for all.

[wholagun]

I am not going to claim any knowledge in the EU constitution but I am curious to know if someone could explain in laymans terms why europe needs to have one constitution for all the countries? Am I misunderstanding the concept here?

firstly further legal/politcal/socieo integration in Europe, secondly it will be easier to get thigns done, provide a good basis for Europe in heading into the future.

Your Canadian, good so am I, so I'll use the Charter of Right and Freedoms we have here in Canada. The Charter outline what is legal and what is not legal right, and it safe guards aginst governmnet power, although in Canada we got sec 33 which is a matter all in of itself.

European constitution just provides basis for further integration, and EU has a European parliament so it kinda makes sense in that case as well. But the EU constitution goes even further by having clasuses like if one country of the EU gets attacked all must help, so its kinda like NATO clause. Also concsitution talks about creation of EU military. Im the Europeans know more about the constitution, although yesterday I was wathing TV and most Europeans don't have a clue what is in the Constitution, so you may not be alone, and Im no expert in that area as well.

[TALOS]

I am not going to claim any knowledge in the EU constitution but I am curious to know if someone could explain in laymans terms why europe needs to have one constitution for all the countries? Am I misunderstanding the concept here?

firstly further legal/politcal/socieo integration in Europe, secondly it will be easier to get thigns done, provide a good basis for Europe in heading into the future.

Your Canadian, good so am I, so I'll use the Charter of Right and Freedoms we have here in Canada. The Charter outline what is legal and what is not legal right, and it safe guards aginst governmnet power, although in Canada we got sec 33 which is a matter all in of itself.

European constitution just provides basis for further integration, and EU has a European parliament so it kinda makes sense in that case as well. But the EU constitution goes even further by having clasuses like if one country of the EU gets attacked all must help, so its kinda like NATO clause. Also concsitution talks about creation of EU military. Im the Europeans know more about the constitution, although yesterday I was wathing TV and most Europeans don't have a clue what is in the Constitution, so you may not be alone, and Im no expert in that area as well.
Thx for the reply wholagun, but does that mean that the EU will have a central governor or something along those lines and can the rights of individual countries be over ruled like our provinces can?

[cbreedon]

But the British parliament will hardly loose its power. With this Constitution Britain stays a sovereign power, that can leave the EU anytime it wants. No one forced you to join.
If you don't like it, leave. The EU is to big anyway.

That's what the Southern States in the US thought.......didn't quite work out for them :lol: