Male circumcision lowers the risk of AIDS infection

[Greek soldier]

Editors' Summary

Background.

Africa is the continent most affected by HIV/AIDS, and it is important to consider all possible means of reducing the spread of HIV infection. Male circumcision has been a tradition in many parts of Africa for hundreds of years. Boys who are circumcised usually have it done in late childhood or their early teenage years. It was noticed some years ago that those African groups in which circumcision is routinely done on all boys have fewer cases of HIV/AIDS than are found in groups where circumcision is not a tradition. This finding gave rise to the idea that circumcision might give a degree of protection against HIV, though it was recognised that some other, unknown difference between these groups of people might actually be the important factor. In 2005 a trial was reported from the Orange Farm area of South Africa, in which uncircumcised men were offered the chance to be circumcised. The men who agreed were divided at random into those who had the operation straightaway and those who were to have it two years later. During the next 18 months, the number of new cases of HIV infection was much higher amongst the men who had not been circumcised. Circumcision did therefore seem to offer a measure of protection against infection. This protective effect was estimated at being about 60%. Similar trials are under way in other parts of Africa but there are no results available from them at this stage.

Why Was This Study Done?

If the level of effectiveness of circumcision suggested by the South African trial is correct, then, as one part of a range of measures to reduce the spread of HIV, it would seem logical to encourage the practice of male circumcision. It would be useful to have an estimate of just how many new cases could be prevented and how many lives would be saved by the promotion of male circumcision. Calculations would have to allow for various factors, such as the present level of HIV infection, which varies from one country to another, and the fact that many men are already circumcised.

Continues here (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030262#s8)

Note: From top of page there is also a detailed mathematical analysis of the reasearch for anyone interested.

[Lt. James Anderson]

What a BS! Let me guess."Research" was conducted by some witch doctor?

[Firetxmi]

What a BS! Let me guess."Research" was conducted by some witch doctor?

This is nothing new actually. We talked about it in my paramedic class a couple years ago, and my Nurse friends know about this too. This research has actually been out for a while if I am not mistaken. Explain why you dont believe it....

[akd]

What a BS! Let me guess."Research" was conducted by some witch doctor?

Wow. Thank you for that educated opinion.

[AOCBravo2004]

Then why are doctors doing less of them here in the United States???

[Kaplanr]

I will venture an uneducated guess. The same groups that practice circumcision are probalby less likely for whatever reasons - education - social practices - socio-economic stability - to engage in at-risk behaviors that would expose them to HIV.

I'd maintain that the nature of HIV/AIDS and its transmission as a virus isn't going to be reduced because someone is cut. A virus isn't a bacteria.

OR, I may be wrong. There is active research that does indicate the foreskin may have a negative effect on the immune system's abilities to fight the virus.
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/320/7249/1592

[Scrim]

Well duh, us guys with foreskins obviously get laid more. Everyone knows that.

[Kaplanr]

Then why are doctors doing less of them here in the United States???

Because in a modern society with high standards of hygeine there isn't any tangible medical benefit from doing so. Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In the case of circumcision, in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child’s current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. It is legitimate for parents to take into account cultural, religious, and ethnic traditions, in addition to the medical factors, when making this decision. Analgesia is safe and effective in reducing the procedural pain associated with circumcision; therefore, if a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided. If circumcision is performed in the newborn period, it should only be done on infants who are stable and healthy.

— Circumcision Policy Statement, American Academy of Pediatrics

[Firetxmi]

Someone(who has read the whole article) else please explain how this study is flawed or biased.

[MichaelF]

Then why are doctors doing less of them here in the United States???


European porn.

[Kaapeli]

The female circumcision must then be the ultimate anti-hiv treatment because they sew the genitals shut preventing all intercourse without the use of scissors

On a serious note I consider circumcision of babies a barbaric relic from more ignorant times.
Adults can cut their dicks all they want but leave the kids alone until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

[WingedHussar]

I would rather die of AIDS than have a circumcision.
I am really attached to my foreskin.p-)

[HOLLiS]

I would rather die of AIDS than have a circumcision.
I am really attached to my foreskin.p-)

LOLOL what a mindless statement............

What is it in Europe only about 4% are circumsized.

[AussieJohnDoe]

I would rather die of AIDS than have a circumcision.
I am really attached to my foreskin.p-)

I wouldn't be able to live without my neck, either.










p-)

[VPR]

sounds like bs, even if it is true circumcision is fuked up, but where I come from dicks come as a whole

[Belrick]

Why stop at the forskin? Why not remove the whole prick cause i can garuantnee that will lower incidents of aids transmission.

[akd]

Why stop at the forskin? Why not remove the whole prick cause i can garuantnee that will lower incidents of aids transmission.

Killing someone also greatly reduces their chances of contracting HIV.

[Apathy]

Well duh, us guys with foreskins obviously get laid more. Everyone knows that.

Aw god damn it! >:(

[VOD]

Well duh, us guys with foreskins obviously get laid more. Everyone knows that.

Maybe where your from,

Around here No one likes Ant eater dicks...not even the fat chicks. p-)

[Resurrection]

Anyone who can't be bothered to wash and maintain their own dick on a regular basis probably doesn't deserve to have one in the first place.

[HOLLiS]

Anyone who can't be bothered to wash and maintain their own dick on a regular basis probably doesn't deserve to have one in the first place.

Exactly........................

[Lt. James Anderson]

This is nothing new actually. We talked about it in my paramedic class a couple years ago, and my Nurse friends know about this too. This research has actually been out for a while if I am not mistaken. Explain why you dont believe it....

Anyone with common sense knows that AIDS is mainly contracted through fcuked up behavior. It is a lifestyle diease. How is mutilation going to fix it? As somebody alreay noted, why not cut the whole thing off and reduce the risk completely??? As for all those "researche", don't believe everything you read. Many people in the medical field don't agree with them ... Just like in the old days when plutonium was considered a miracle cure for all diseases and it was backed by research ... LOL

Also, don't they already practice male and female mutilation in Africa (in the most countries)?

[Resurrection]

Female and male circumcision can and should not be compared in any way. Doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

[Generation Kill]

Maybe where your from,

Around here No one likes Ant eater dicks...not even the fat chicks. p-)
hahahahahahah

[FaDeR_SP]

I like my dick to have foreskin, gives it character....................

[RFSU]

You wouldn't wear a turtle neck sweater, so why should your dick?

Turtle necks dont look good on anything.

[kabex]

It has been widely known that circumsicion lowers the probability of infection from STD's...

That doesn't mean anything to me though, if cutting your balls off prevented you from getting HIV, would you do it?

[nasiru]

lol .... circumcision isnt that bad ... low maintanance for your dick ... :D

[budgie]

Continues here (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030262#s8)

Note: From top of page there is also a detailed mathematical analysis of the reasearch for anyone interested.

Sure glad I'm snipped cuz I f*ck like a pig...

[Firetxmi]

Anyone with common sense knows that AIDS is mainly contracted through fcuked up behavior.
It is a lifestyle diease.

Like being a Nurse, Doctor, or a Paramedic?

How is mutilation going to fix it? As somebody alreay noted, why not cut the whole thing off and reduce the risk completely??? As for all those "researche", don't believe everything you read. Many people in the medical field don't agree with them ... Just like in the old days when plutonium was considered a miracle cure for all diseases and it was backed by research ... LOL

Reread the whole study. Please also show us a study that contradicts this one since so many in the medical profession diagree with this one.

Also, don't they already practice male and female mutilation in Africa (in the most countries)?

As stated before they don't even compare.

[maw]

THE UN IS PLANNING ON TAKING YOUR FORESKINS!!!

you can have my foreskin when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

molon labe.

[IronFinn]

Hah hah, what a load of bull. In reality, besides that the circumsicion doesn´t protect from aids it also causes scar tissue to form in ones dick. If foreskin would be bad we would be born without it. Strange habits people have.

[Geezah]

LOLOL what a mindless statement............

What is it in Europe only about 4% are circumsized.

Actually, I along with all my brothers lack the foreskin, but I do know that one of my younger brothers had to push real hard to have his boy circumsized. I put it down to the NHS not wanting to spend the money and coming out with bs excuses, he ended up going private to have it done.

[HOLLiS]

Actually, I along with all my brothers lack the foreskin, but I do know that one of my younger brothers had to push real hard to have his boy circumsized. I put it down to the NHS not wanting to spend the money and coming out with bs excuses, he ended up going private to have it done.

Another studied linked cervical cancer to the unclipped male. Sanitation is one of the big issues. We assume modern people understands about sanitation, bur do they. This site would question our modern sanitation habits, http://www.dhpe.org/infect/norwalk.html

What is funny the heat this discussion gets.

[Kaapeli]

Let's not forget the possible infections after the procedure, enormous pain it causes (often done without anestesia) and reduced sexual pleasure later in life (the penis becomes less sensitive to stimulation when there is no foreskin).

[HOLLiS]

reduced sexual pleasure later in life (the penis becomes less sensitive to stimulation when there is no foreskin).


Pure propaganda........... 1000's of satisfied women would call that Bull.

[Resurrection]

This thread isn't getting anywhere, pretty pointless IMO.

[Kaapeli]

Pure propaganda........... 1000's of satisfied women would call that Bull.

I meant for the man.

[Geezah]

I meant for the man.

How would you know, I feel just fine without my foreskin, and I've never had a problem reaching.......well.......you know.

[Resurrection]

How would you know, I feel just fine without my foreskin, and I've never had a problem reaching.......well.......you know.

Orgasm. Come on, say it with me. Orgasm.

[Kaapeli]

How would you know, I feel just fine without my foreskin, and I've never had a problem reaching.......well.......you know.

I didn't say it removes pleasure completely but reduces it. The head of the penis is the most sensitive part and that is partly why it is protected by the foreskin. Now when you remove the foreskin the head becomes less sensitive because it's exposed 24/7.

[foxtrot023]

As someone who had to look at the pros and cons about circumscision, due to my boy being born, I can tell you that the doctros I consulted stated and even pointed me out to book sources.....there is no health benefit from circumscision. Yu get the same benefits as the guys with the hood on.

[Resurrection]

I didn't say it removes pleasure completely but reduces it. The head of the penis is the most sensitive part and that is partly why it is protected by the foreskin. Now when you remove the foreskin the head becomes less sensitive because it's exposed 24/7.

As long as you're still able to reach orgasm I don't see the problem. So what if a little sensitivity is lost?

[Apathy]

Orgasm. Come on, say it with me. Orgasm.
lol i sed penis
PENIS

[Kaapeli]

As long as you're still able to reach orgasm I don't see the problem. So what if a little sensitivity is lost?

Maybe that should be for the person himself to decide.

[HOLLiS]

WOWIE some people are learning some new words,

We have Penis, now we need vagina, and when we put them together we have Orgasim......... Way to go kids :hug:


who says sex ed was difficult. :)

[Rossdobby]

Its funny they say protection agianst HIV. HIV is a retro-virus and when you test positive for it they actually test you for the immunity to it. Much like chicken pox once you get it your body creates an immunity HIV is not realted to aids

[Pandy]

Well, it only comes out one way... ;)

[Firetxmi]

Every armchair doc on here has said "this is complete B.S., this can't be" yet no one has shown another study that suggest that this one is false.

But hey, if you know more than:

Brian G. Williams1*, James O. Lloyd-Smith2,3, Eleanor Gouws4, Catherine Hankins4, Wayne M. Getz2, John Hargrove5, Isabelle de Zoysa6, Christopher Dye1, Bertran Auvert7,8,9

1 World Health Organization, Stop TB Department, Geneva, Switzerland, 2 Department of Environmental Science, Policy, and Management, University of California Berkeley, Berkeley, California, United States of America, 3 Center for Infectious Disease Dynamics, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania, United States of America, 4 Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS), Policy, Evidence, and Partnerships Department, Geneva, Switzerland, 5 South African Centre for Epidemiological Modelling and Analysis, Stellenbosch, South Africa, 6 World Health Organization, Family and Community Health, Geneva, Switzerland, 7 INSERM, Saint Maurice, France, 8 University of Versailles-Saint Quentin, Faculté de Médecine Paris-Ile-de-France-Ouest, Saint Maurice, France, 9 Assistance Publique-Hôpitaux de Paris, Hôpital Ambroise Pare, Boulogne, France

and more than the medical peers who reviewed this study before it was published, then I say PROVE IT.

:D

[Firetxmi]

HIV is not realted to aids

No, AIDS is a RESULT of HIV infection.

[unclebud]

Let's not forget the possible infections after the procedure, enormous pain it causes (often done without anestesia) and reduced sexual pleasure later in life (the penis becomes less sensitive to stimulation when there is no foreskin).

i've been snipped. if f*cking felt any god damned better i couldn't stand it.

[Belrick]

Sure glad I'm snipped cuz I f*ck like a pig...


If you mutalate your penis it's also a known fact it lowers your sensitivity. i.e. less enjoyment from each stroke so that the butchered males end up shagging like rabbits to make up for the loss of feeling.
Wham bam roll off, snore.

[Resurrection]

If you mutalate your penis it's also a known fact it lowers your sensitivity. i.e. less enjoyment from each stroke
Try reading the thread next time before posting.

[Belrick]

i've been snipped. if f*cking felt any god damned better i couldn't stand it.

I pity you. When i engage with a woman i get to feel everything, the sensations are wicked. Didyou even have a choice before they took that away from you?

[Belrick]

Try reading the thread next time before posting.

Touche.

Question is. Do you read every post in a long thread or are you a hipocrite? (I know which one my money's on)

[FaDeR_SP]

Touche.

Question is. Do you read every post in a long thread or are you a hipocrite? (I know which one my money's on)


The penis is a touche subject!

[Resurrection]

Touche.

Question is. Do you read every post in a long thread or are you a hipocrite? (I know which one my money's on)
I read the thread before making a post.

[VOD]

Only an idiot would think their penis is invicible to diseases and infections simply because of some skin. WRAP THAT ****!!

The sensitivity thing is getting old. poonany feels pretty god damn good to me woot , i cant complain. Is there anyone who would know the difference? Like a before and after test?

[Greek soldier]

What a BS! Let me guess."Research" was conducted by some witch doctor?

Seems you havent' read the article.

And to help a bit, try observing these tables. You'll notice that West Africa has far less HIV AIDS infections, where Male circucision is widely practised, than Sub-Saharan Areas.

Table 1 (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=slideshow&type=figure&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030262&id=57968)

Table 2 (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=slideshow&type=figure&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030262&id=57972)

Table 3 (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=slideshow&type=figure&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030262&id=57976)

[budgie]

The female circumcision must then be the ultimate anti-hiv treatment because they sew the genitals shut preventing all intercourse without the use of scissors
.

As a matter of fact female circumcision only involves removing the clitoris to stem sexual urges. The male dominated societies that promote it still want to protect their rights to use women for their own pleasure.

[budgie]

you can have my foreskin when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

.

Naah, you can keep it mate

[Bandeirante]

Kids here got guns as early as 5 years old. It would be a difficult task to convince them.

[Renal]

Every armchair doc on here has said "this is complete B.S., this can't be" yet no one has shown another study that suggest that this one is false.Mind if I add something?

From the American Journal of Clinical Pathology

Donoval BA, Landay AL, Moses S, Agot K, Ndinya-Achola JO, Nyagaya EA, MacLean I, Bailey RC. HIV-1 Target Cells in Foreskins of African Men With Varying Histories of Sexually Transmitted Infections. Am J Clin Pathol. 2006 Mar;125(3):386-91.

Abstract

Numerous epidemiologic studies have found significant associations between lack of circumcision and HIV-1 acquisition in men. To our knowledge, this is the first study of human foreskin tissue that examines biologic mechanisms that increase susceptibility of uncircumcised African men to HIV-1. Foreskin specimens from 20 men with and 19 men with no history of sexually transmitted infections were examined for HIV-1 target cells. Most Langerhans cells were found in the epithelium; most CD4+ T cells and macrophages were in the submucosa. There were no differences in HIV-1 target cells between men with and those without history of sexually transmitted infections. However Langerhans cells and macrophages were more abundant in the group with a history of infection. The densities and positions of HIV-1 target cells in the foreskin tissue of these Kenyan men indicate that the inner mucosal surface of the human foreskin contains cells that make it highly susceptible to HIV infection.

URL (http://ajcp.metapress.com/(mwbsuxewseh34mqm10e1pc45)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,7,19;journal,6,79;linkingpublicationresults,1:300401,1)

[Renal]

And something from the London School of Hygeine & Tropical Medicine.

Weiss HA, Thomas SL, Munabi SK and Hayes RJ. Male circumcision and risk of syphilis, chancroid, and genital herpes: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Sexually Transmitted Infections 2006;82:101-110; doi:10.1136/sti.2005.017442

Abstract

Objectives: Male circumcision is associated with reduced risk of HIV infection. This may be partly because of a protective effect of circumcision on other sexually transmitted infections (STI), especially those causing genital ulcers, but evidence for such protection is unclear. Our objective was to conduct a systematic review and meta-analyses of the associations between male circumcision and infection with herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV-2), Treponema pallidum, or Haemophilus ducreyi.

Methods: Electronic databases (1950–2004) were searched using keywords and text terms for herpes simplex, syphilis, chancroid, ulcerative sexually transmitted diseases, or their causative agents, in conjunction with terms to identify epidemiological studies. References of key articles were hand searched, and data were extracted using standardised forms. Random effects models were used to summarise relative risk (RR) where appropriate.

Results: 26 articles met the inclusion criteria. Most syphilis studies reported a substantially reduced risk among circumcised men (summary RR = 0.67, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.54 to 0.83), although there was significant between study heterogeneity (p = 0.01). The reduced risk of HSV-2 infection was of borderline statistical significance (summary RR = 0.88, 95% CI 0.77 to 1.01). Circumcised men were at lower risk of chancroid in six of seven studies (individual study RRs: 0.12 to 1.11).

Conclusions: This first systematic review of male circumcision and ulcerative STI strongly indicates that circumcised men are at lower risk of chancroid and syphilis. There is less association with HSV-2. Potential male circumcision interventions to reduce HIV in high risk populations may provide additional benefit by protecting against other STI.

[Renal]

If anyone is interested in a proper discussion, here's a reply to the original article which raises some interesting discussion points that don't rest on some concept of butchery.

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030078

One from a legal point of view; a small article by three lawyers published in J R Soc Health 2005 Nov;125(6):259-65.
The objective of this study was to determine whether the justifications given for promoting mass circumcision as a preventive measure for HIV infection are reasonable and whether mass circumcision is a feasible preventive measure for HIV infection in developing countries. The medical literature concerning the practice of circumcision in the absence of medical indication was reviewed regarding its impact on HIV infection and related issues. The literature was analysed with careful attention to historical perspective. Our results show that the medical literature supporting mass circumcision for the prevention of HIV infection is inconsistent and based on observation studies. Even if the two ongoing randomised controlled trials in Africa show a protective benefit of circumcision, factors such as the unknown complication rate of the procedure, the permanent injury to the penis, human rights violations and the potential for veiled colonialism need to be taken into account. Based on the best estimates, mass circumcision would not be as cost-effective as other interventions that have been demonstrated to be effective. Even if effective, mass circumcision as a preventive measure for HIV in developed countries is difficult to justify.


Now, clearly an opposing viewpoint means that the issue is unclear right? Ignore if you want that medicine is almost never as clear cut as that - there is practically never a right answer, just a bunch of answers from which we have to pick the 'best'.

[Fargin]

I have had my eyelids removed for hygenic reasons.

[IronFinn]

So now after these guys are lured to circumcision they start to have unprotected sex because they think this will protect them against any venereal disease?

[LTC]

I guess it would all depend on how much your Moyel took off.

[IronFinn]

How many pieces they have to cut off to have all around protection? one for aids... one fir syphilis... one for herpes... jeez, there won´t be much left after that.

[Greek soldier]

Male Circumcision is applied only once...

[IronFinn]

psst! It was a joke. ;)

[budgie]

So now after these guys are lured to circumcision they start to have unprotected sex because they think this will protect them against any venereal disease?

You're missing the point - they're having unprotected sex anyway and it's a long and continuous flight to change attitudes. In the meantime, circumcision reduces the risk. It's just math.

[Renal]

So now after these guys are lured to circumcision they start to have unprotected sex because they think this will protect them against any venereal disease?Remember that people in the developing world have unprotected sex for a number of reasons; to reproduce, for cultural reasons, because they don't have access to protection or because the Pope tells them to...

[Greek soldier]

Mainly because of poverty, limited or no education on such issues, and limited access to protection.

[Andrija-Sumadinac]

I had my **** removed because it was starting to grow over my head and I could barely piss.

[BeetleCrusher]

I had my **** removed because it was starting to grow over my head and I could barely piss.
I am still whole and do not go around poking it in strange holes... Jeez, when will they learn that that is the best prevention... rofl

[IronFinn]

Yep, I for one am very glad this barbaric tribal operation (which some people tend to think has something to do with health) hasn´t been done to me. I like my dick to be whole and so does my wife.

[Renal]

(which some people tend to think has something to do with health)They're crazy aren't they, there's only a couple of RCTs indicating that it does... :roll:

[Brute]

On a serious note I consider circumcision of babies a barbaric relic from more ignorant times.

Pretty much sums up what I think about the whole thing. When I came to US, I was quite shocked to learn that such an advanced nation practices it. :bash:

[VOD]

Pretty much sums up what I think about the whole thing. When I came to US, I was quite shocked to learn that such an advanced nation practices it. :bash:

Its a part of our modern culture, now **** off.

[Taekwondo]

Not having sex decreases your chances of getting hiv...


but it doesn't completely null them. Blood transfusion with infected blood has caused a number of cases.

IMHO mutilation of someone's privates is a strange and archaic phenomenon that should be done only on the individual's opinion, not the society's. There's also been some scientific discussion that circumsision leads to aggressive behaviour through trauma.

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/

[Andrija-Sumadinac]

You can't be a pornstar with the hood on. DUH!

[ClydeFrog]

The densities and positions of HIV-1 target cells in the foreskin tissue of these Kenyan men indicate that the inner mucosal surface of the human foreskin contains cells that make it highly susceptible to HIV infection.This thread is symptomatic. Someone posts an article which is about as credible as it gets on the internet and the only reaction here is that the ones that don't like it get all defensive, call it hoax and start flaming. Jesus, it's not like having a foreskin means you'll definetly get aids.

Sometimes things aren't 100 per cent in your favor. Grow up and deal with it.

[Cambridge Rabbit]

Pretty much sums up what I think about the whole thing. When I came to US, I was quite shocked to learn that such an advanced nation practices it. :bash:

Why do you think we're so fat and violent?

[Firetxmi]

This thread is symptomatic. Someone posts an article which is about as credible as it gets on the internet and the only reaction here is that the ones that don't like it get all defensive, call it hoax and start flaming. Jesus, it's not like having a foreskin means you'll definetly get aids.

Sometimes things aren't 100 per cent in your favor. Grow up and deal with it.

Thank you! Good post!