(UK)Homicides soar by a quarter under Labour

[Geezah]

Cases of murder and manslaughter have risen by almost a quarter since Labour came to power, Home Office figures have revealed.

Since 1997, the number of homicide victims, including solved and unsolved cases, has averaged 737 per year. In the period from 1990 to 1996, the average was 601.

The figures deal a further blow to Tony Blair's reputation on law and order, after he came to office pledging to be "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime".

The Government will reaffirm its commitment to try to tackle violence when it announces this week that tens of thousands of blades were handed in to police during last month's knife amnesty.

But separate statistics, released by the Home Office under the Freedom of Information Act, show that most people caught with knives are let off with a fine or a caution. Only one in seven is jailed; and this month's crime figures will show a surge in robberies.

The revelations come in the wake of The Sunday Telegraph's Make Britain Safe campaign, which is calling for more police, tougher sentencing, more prisons, effective rehabilitation and a royal commission on criminal justice.

David Cameron, the Conservative leader, last night praised the campaign as "incredibly important" and said that crime had "a huge impact on people's quality of life and well-being".

Mr Cameron will, however, spark debate tomorrow with a call for society to show "love" to hoodies and young tearaways. He will use a speech to the Centre for Social Justice to reposition his party's stance on law and order, with a demand that more is done to understand the emotional causes of anti-social behaviour.

John Reid, the Home Secretary, has had a torrid first two months, with his department reeling from the fiasco of wrongly-freed foreign prisoners and revelations over soft jail sentences and reoffending.

Figures for the number of homicides each year from 1990 to 2005, and the methods used by the killers, were released by Vernon Coaker, the Home Office minister, in response to a parliamentary question from Iain Wright, a Labour MP who is campaigning for tougher punishment for people caught carrying knives illegally.

Ministers have sought to explain away rises in recorded violence by pointing to changes in the way police count crimes. But the homicide rate is one of the most accurate long-term measures of crime, because the offence is almost always reported to police and its definition - the taking of someone else's life - has not changed.

Michael Howard, the Tory home secretary from 1993 to 1997, said: "This is one of the few examples where direct comparisons can be made between Labour's record and that of the Conservatives. The figures demonstrate an increase of almost 25 per cent in the number of homicides since Labour came to power. This is an absolutely horrifying figure."

Norman Brennan, of the Victims of Crime Trust, said: "These are terrible figures. One extra murder is bad enough, 23 per cent is a huge rise. And homicide is just the tip of the iceberg of violent and serious crime."

Deaths by stabbing have averaged 228 a year since 1997, up nine per cent from their former level. Fatal shootings average 69 a year, up 18 per cent. The number of victims poisoned, drugged, punched or kicked to death has also risen, but the number strangled or beaten with a blunt instrument has declined.

The figures exclude at least 250 people murdered by Harold Shipman during his 23 years of killing.

Mr Blair told MPs last month that he was considering increasing the minimum penalty for carrying a knife, declaring: "We want to make sure that anybody who is found in illegal possession of a knife is subject to the toughest penalties possible."

Yet among more than 11,000 people arrested in the past five years for illegally possessing a sharp or bladed weapon in public, 67 per cent were let off with a caution; 19 per cent were fined; and only 14 per cent were jailed. Of 362 people caught carrying a blade at school during the same period, 71 per cent were merely cautioned.

There were 19 fatal stabbings in England and Wales during the five-week amnesty period and Mike Craik, the chief constable of Northumbria, has called for automatic jail sentences for people who carry knives.

The police clear-up rate for homicide is 90 per cent, far higher than other offences, reflecting the priority placed on solving murders.

Crime figures for 2004/5 will show a continuing drop in recorded crime, with ministers relieved that extended pub opening hours do not appear to have made matters worse.

Mr Cameron will use his speech tomorrow to move the Conservatives away from their traditional harsh line on crime and punishment. He will say: "Hoodies are more defensive than offensive. They're a way to stay invisible in the street. Putting things right is not just about law enforcement.

"If the police stand for sanctions and penalties, you stand for love - and not a soppy love. No child is beyond recovery, beyond civilisation."

His remarks will provoke criticism among traditional Conservatives. They tear up years of Tory thinking on youth crime which was summed up by John Major when he urged society to "condemn a little more and understand a little less".

By contrast, Mr Cameron will say: "When you see a child walking down the road, hoodie up, head down, moody, swaggering, dominating the pavement - think what has brought that child to that moment."

Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=1BMTZMFP2UGWDQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2006/07/09/ncrime09.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/07/09/ixuknews.html)

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[Bert]

Tough on crime, tough on the sources of crime - yeah, go ahead Mr. Blair, ban airguns and knives. We can see it's working. ****ing fascist.

[Maverickman]

Well you do have to realise that by taking items that could be used for self defence out of the publics hands and leave them with the criminals is the safest thing you can do! Then when you realise that this is going wrong, you organise an amnesty, that'll work!

[Secret Squirrel]

Did I miss the part where it explained how much the population increased?

[Geezah]

Did I miss the part where it explained how much the population increased?

Through immigration?

So are you blaming immigrants for the increase in homicides under a Labour Guberment?

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

When Cameron’s "Hug A Hoodie" initiative gets underway then and only then will we see a dramatic fall in UK murder rates.

[Oddbod]

So the PTB want to make criminals out of people who carry knives?

I guess that makes me one then, as I have carried them for thirty or more years.
My current one is a 3 1/4" blade Buck, which I use constantly, both at home & at work & smaller blade will not do many of tasks required.
I have never stabbed anyone, yet I am to be classified the same as some murderous scumbag.

How about focusing on those who commit a CRIME with a knife & making sure they serve at least 90% of their sentence, rather than the <35% they serve now?

Stupid laws, made by politicians whose connections to reality are tenuous at best

[kabex]

I think banning knives/guns/etc is a stupid idea.

I bet you it's easier to buy an AK-47 on the black market than a butcher knife legally in the UK.

:D

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

I think banning knives/guns/etc is a stupid idea.

I bet you it's easier to buy an AK-47 on the black market than a butcher knife legally in the UK.

:DI think you have been misled, you can buy almost any knife in the UK apart from flick knives and it may surprise you to know that UK knife laws are slightly better than some US state laws. The big thing in the UK is carrying knives in public, the Home Office wants to make it illegal for anyone to carry a knife on their person.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I think banning knives/guns/etc is a stupid idea.

I bet you it's easier to buy an AK-47 on the black market than a butcher knife legally in the UK.

:D

If you seriously think that then you really are a moonbat.:roll:

[Geezah]

I think you have been misled, you can buy almost any knife in the UK apart from flick knives and it may surprise you to know that UK knife laws are slightly better than some US state laws. The big thing in the UK is carrying knives in public, the Home Office wants to make it illegal for anyone to carry a knife on their person.

Hang on a mo, I can buy, own and carry a knife on my person without fear of being victimised by the law. I can also buy and own a stun gun, I can buy, own and carry pepper spray of mace. You cannot do any of these things in the UK, anything that is marketed for self defense is restricted as far as carrying it on your person over there.

[Mastermind]

Ah...I suppose the law abiding citizens feel so much safer now....that is of course, since they are all very well disarmed...nothing to fear at all from the common every day law abiding citizens.MM

[ex1cdo]

Did I miss the part where it explained how much the population increased?
It's amazing how sensationalist reporters never consider demographics when trotting out the statistics on things like crime.

It would be interesting to know what the increase in the number of 18 - 34 year old males was over that period.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

You know I'm sure I read somewhere that violent crime increased in the States recently. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones etc.

You're still more likely to be murdered in the US than in the UK.

[Geezah]

You know I'm sure I read somewhere that violent crime increased in the States recently. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones etc.

You're still more likely to be murdered in the US than in the UK.

Actually, we saw the largest increase since 1991, that does not mean we are anywhere near where we were 30yrs ago.
So, overall crime has dropped to levels seen two years ago in the UK, now that's saying something.
When comparing glass houses, you may want to check as ours is double glazed.

[Geezah]

It's amazing how sensationalist reporters never consider demographics when trotting out the statistics on things like crime.

It would be interesting to know what the increase in the number of 18 - 34 year old males was over that period.

In mid-2004 the UK was home to 59.8 million people, of which 50.1 million lived in England. The average age was 38.6 years, an increase on 1971 when it was 34.1 years. In mid-2004 approximately one in five people in the UK were aged under 16 and one in six people were aged 65 or over.

The UK has a growing population. It grew by 280,600 people in the year to mid-2004, and the average growth per year has been 0.4 per cent since mid-2001. The UK population increased by 7.0 per cent since 1971, from 55.9 million. Growth has been faster in more recent years. Between mid-1991 and mid-2003 the population grew by an annual rate of 0.3 per cent.

The UK has an ageing population. This is the result of declines both in fertility rates and in the mortality rate. This has led to a declining proportion of the population aged under 16 and an increasing proportion aged 65 and over.

In every year since 1901, with the exception of 1976, there have been more births than deaths in the UK and the population has grown due to natural change. Until the mid-1990s, this natural increase was the main driver of population growth. Since the late 1990s, although there has still been natural increase, net international migration into the UK from abroad has been an increasingly important factor in population change.

Link (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=6)

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[a_very_ex_STAB]

Actually, we saw the largest increase since 1991, that does not mean we are anywhere near where we were 30yrs ago.
So, overall crime has dropped to levels seen two years ago in the UK, now that's saying something.
When comparing glass houses, you may want to check as ours is double glazed.
'Overall crime' is a bit of a meaningless term because it covers shall we say a 'multitude of sins'!:)

The truth is you less likely to be murdered in the UK than in the USA.
You are much less likely to be murdered with a gun in the UK than in the USA.
Muggings seem to be up. That maybe because it tends to be more difficult to break into a lot of peoples houses to steal their valuables than previously.
Increased reporting also plays a role of course as has been done to death on here before.

Why are you so interested in the minutiae of another country's crime stats anyway. I thought you didn't live here anymore. Are you trying to convince the Yanks of your loyalty to your adopted country by slagging off the motherland by any chance?

[Geezah]

'Overall crime' is a bit of a meaningless term because it covers shall we say a 'multitude of sins'!:)

Ok, change that to violent crime, as we saw the biggest increase since 1991, and there may be allot of things that factor into that increase, Katrina being one of them. Now then, the UK has seen a decrease and they are at a levels seen two years ago, now that is something to sing about.


The truth is you less likely to be murdered in the UK than in the USA.
You are much less likely to be murdered with a gun in the UK than in the USA.
Muggings seem to be up. That maybe because it tends to be more difficult to break into a lot of peoples houses to steal their valuables than previously.
Increased reporting also plays a role of course as has been done to death on here before.

Higher chance of being a victim of violent crime in the UK than over here.


Why are you so interested in the minutiae of another country's crime stats anyway. I thought you didn't live here anymore. Are you trying to convince the Yanks of your loyalty to your adopted country by slagging off the motherland by any chance?

Nice Red Herring!

Back on subject, do you believe there has or has not been an increase in crime under the Labour Guberment?

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Higher chance of being a victim of violent crime in the UK than over here.

But it's a misleading catch all term though isn't it. If I was a victim of a mugging in the UK I would find that 'preferable' in a sense to being shot in the US (but not a desirable state obviously).

Back on subject, do you believe there has or has not been an increase in crime under the Labour Guberment?

Some go up some go down. C'est la vie.

[Hydro]

Maybe Labour are slotting the quarter themselves? The headlines have been saying it for long enough, now Tony's seeing for himself if he can get away with murder.

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

Hang on a mo, I can buy, own and carry a knife on my person without fear of being victimised by the law.As it stands I can carry knife of the legal specified length on my person in a public place, common sense dictates that I do not carry it when out pubbing and clubbing. I get more than a few knife brochures sent to me from the US and many military knives have Restricted Articles marked next to them and sometimes listing the states that the restriction applies to, funny thing is most of the US restricted knives can be bought over the counter in the UK.

[Geezah]

As it stands I can carry knife of the legal specified length on my person in a public place, common sense dictates that I do not carry it when out pubbing and clubbing. I get more than a few knife brochures sent to me from the US and many military knives have Restricted Articles marked next to them and sometimes listing the states that the restriction applies to, funny thing is most of the US restricted knives can be bought over the counter in the UK.

And carried in your home;)

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

And carried in your home;)Not true, I can take any one of those US *RA* kinves shooting fishing or camping while certain US citizens cannot own them. Nice try Haw Haw.

[Apathy]

According to Nation Master (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes), The total amount of crimes commited in the UK is 5,170,830. That's about 8.5 crimes per 100 people. The total amount of crimes commited in the US is 23,677,800. That's about 7.8 crimes per 100 people.

[Geezah]

Not true, I can take any one of those US *RA* kinves shooting fishing or camping while certain US citizens cannot own them. Nice try Haw Haw.

Just want to confirm that the knife you carry is legal to carry in public, is it a Leatherman or a Swiss Army Knife???

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

Just want to confirm that the knife you carry is legal to carry in public, is it a Leatherman or a Swiss Army Knife???Its a Kershaw "Ken Onion".

[a_very_ex_STAB]

According to Nation Master (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes), The total amount of crimes commited in the UK is 5,170,830. That's about 8.5 crimes per 100 people. The total amount of crimes commited in the US is 23,677,800. That's about 7.8 crimes per 100 people.

But I bet a much higher proportion of those crimes in the US involve murder.

[Geezah]

Its a Kershaw "Ken Onion".

So it does lock in an open position then?

[Apathy]

But I bet a much higher proportion of those crimes in the US involve murder.

And I bet a much higher proportion of those crimes in the UK involve assault.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

And I bet a much higher proportion of those crimes in the UK involve assault.
You do know that reporting rules got changed a while back in the UK don't you? So that for example an incident in which 3 ppl got assaulted would now be reported as 3 crimes instead of one under the old rules. Bingo! A 300% increase in assaults:roll:

[Geezah]

You do know that reporting rules got changed a while back in the UK don't you? So that for example an incident in which 3 ppl got assaulted would now be reported as 3 crimes instead of one under the old rules. Bingo! A 300% increase in assaults:roll:

So seeing as you are a Labour Apologist, you think everything is fine and dandy with Bliars Guberment?

[a_very_ex_STAB]

So seeing as you are a Labour Apologist, you think everything is fine and dandy with Bliars Guberment?

I think maybe you should check some of my posts (esp recent ones) to see whether I'm a Neu Arbeit apologist or not.

Whether you like it or not firearms legislation is simply not a party political issue in the UK (or even anything more than a minor issue in fact - it's simply not on the radar screen because it doesn't need to be).

[Apathy]

You do know that reporting rules got changed a while back in the UK don't you? So that for example an incident in which 3 ppl got assaulted would now be reported as 3 crimes instead of one under the old rules. Bingo! A 300% increase in assaults:roll:

{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
O RLY?

[a_very_ex_STAB]

{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
O RLY?

Yes RLY :)

[Geezah]

Whether you like it or not firearms legislation is simply not a party political issue in the UK (or even anything more than a minor issue in fact - it's simply not on the radar screen because it doesn't need to be).

I guess you missed these then, posted the other day, 14,000 calls out to firearm incidents a year. The videos are interesting, looking like LA more and more every day.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/video/vid...p17007,00.html

http://www.sky.com/skynews/video/vid...p16891,00.html

[a_very_ex_STAB]

I guess you missed these then, posted the other day, 14,000 calls out to firearm incidents a year. The videos are interesting, looking like LA more and more every day.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/video/vid...p17007,00.html

http://www.sky.com/skynews/video/vid...p16891,00.html
I think you need to check the very wideranging UK police definition of what constitutes a 'firearms incident.'

Actually I'm sure you know it already ;-) - the devil is always in the detail eh eh!

[Apathy]

Yes RLY :)

{o,o}
(__(|
-"-"-
NO WAI!

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

So it does lock in an open position then?Its been modded for not only an even faster opening but to be very legal, all utility knives are either fixed blade or locking.

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

And I bet a much higher proportion of those crimes in the UK involve assault.Once upon a time many years ago two guys could have a fight on a saturday night and if the cops saw it they would break it up and kick your arse but now and for at least 15 years or so they are obliged to charge one or both combatants. We do a reasonable amount of fighting up round my way so you can imagine that there will be a rise in reported assaults.:)

[Geezah]

Its been modded for not only an even faster opening but to be very legal, all utility knives are either fixed blade or locking.

If the knife you have locks and you carry it on your person, then you are carrying it illegally.

I got that from the Old Bill themselves;)

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

If the knife you have locks and you carry it on your person, then you are carrying it illegally.

I got that from the Old Bill themselves;)We all know that kinda stuff over here, my long blade Kershaw Ken Onion which has not been modded is carried in my mountain bike waist pouch. Despite all the hoo ha in the press I spent years walking between the harbour and the bakers every friday with a three of fixed blade knives hanging from me in plain sight and I never got pulled.

[Geezah]

We all know that kinda stuff over here, my long blade Kershaw Ken Onion which has not been modded is carried in my mountain bike waist pouch. Despite all the hoo ha in the press I spent years walking between the harbour and the bakers every friday with a three of fixed blade knives hanging from me in plain sight and I never got pulled.

Getting pulled and it being illegal are two different things, especially after you chastised us over here on knives and the laws between different states.

You may want to get rid of that knife and get a Swiss Army Knife or Leatherman as you are currently "breaking the law";)

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

You may want to get rid of that knife and get a Swiss Army Knife or Leatherman as you are currently "breaking the law";)Again I will have to stress for the hard of learning that my smallest Kershaw has been modded and is legal in the written terms of the law.

[Geezah]

Again I will have to stress for the hard of learning that my smallest Kershaw has been modded and is legal in the written terms of the law.

My bad, didn't quite understand modded, thought it was Mod related. So your knife does not lock as these are resctricted to carry. Good, glad to see that even though you paint a picture of knives being restriction free over there they are not.

Now, I can buy a folder that locks and carry it all day long without having to explain myself if found on my person as it is not illegal in the State of Ohio(with a blade under 3"s).