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black mamba
07-14-2006, 04:32 AM
here's a clarification on the sunni / shia issue:

HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE

after the Holy Prophet's (pbuh) death, questions rose over his successor.
the two different tribes wanted the replacement from amongst them but negotiations collapsed and there was a fear that everything would descend into chaos. three of the Prophet's companions, Hazrat Abu-bakr, Hazrat Umar & Hazrat Usman, held a small meeting with other companions and decided that Hazrat Abu-bakr should become the 1st caliph.


sunni belief: this was a valid election of the 1st caliph
shia belief: the Holy Prophet had declared Hazrat Ali (his cousin & son-in-law) as his successor during the last Hajj performed by the Prophet before his death infront of all those present


anyway, after the caliph had been chosen, Hazrat Ali put in an initial claim to caliphate but after he was refused, he sat on the sidelines occasionally advising the caliphs when asked for his advice but never taking a part in politics

after the 3rd caliph's murder (Hazrat Usman) due to ineternal strife, muslims asked Hazrat Ali to become the 4th caliph because they could not find a suitable successor. at the time, the two tribes of Ummayads and Bani Hashim were very much against each other because of pre-islamic animosity. Hazrat Usman was an Ummayad caliph and he had placed Muawiya (the muslim son of Abu Sufyan - the Prophet's biggest enemy during his life) as the ruler of Syria. when Hazrat Ali (from Bani Hashim) became the 4th caliph, Muawiya refused to accept him, put in his own claim and effectively sealed off the province from the rest of the government. Hazrat Ali fought a few battles against Muawiya and defeated him but he was himself murdered by a member of a new sect that had come up at the time called Khizrajites.


sunni & shia belief: both are the same in this regard
wahabbi belief: what muawiya did was correct because they believed that as a companion of the Prophet, Muawiya could not have been wrong


After Hazrat Ali's death, his son Imam Hassan (the Prophet's 1st grandson from Hazrat Ali) took over but Muawiya had him poisoned. After Imam Hassan's death, Imam Hussain (the Prophet's 2nd grandson from Hazrat Ali) tok over. Muawiya died and was succeeded by his son Yazid. To make a long story short, Yazid's army and Imam Hussain along with his 72 companions fought at Qarbala, Iraq, which resulted in their being completely wiped out and their families being captured.

sunni & shia belief: these incidents happened
sunni belief: no need to take sides since both sides were muslims
shia belief: yazid & muawiya were wrong
wahabi belief: yazid & muawiya were correct in doing what they did

after this incident, the differences between the muslims started which translated into religious differences as well and each Imam fought against the opposite side's ruler at the time till the 12th Imam (as per sunni & shia belief Imam Mehdi - the Imam who is yet to come along with Jesus Christ)


CURRENT SITUATION

sunnis and shias were fine with each other and most of their differences were political till both sides got radicalized after the introduction of the wahabbi sect from saudi arabia. wahabbis believe that shias believe Hazrat Ali was divine and a deity. whereas, shias think he was human but very dear to God and the Prophet. the sunnis believe that he was human like the rest of the companions and the Prophet but they also say that shias should not perform some of the religious ceremonies that they do.

people vary in thought and ideology and with the onset of extremism, things have gotten worse




hope this explanation was clear enough

daily666
07-14-2006, 04:47 AM
Well, thanks a lot for explanation. I have to admit, understanding Muslim faith is preety difficult. On the other hand Muslims are more divided than I thought.

Did I get it properly? That the 12th imam is yet to come with Jesus Christ? I know Jesus is a prophet (Issa) for the Muslims but can you explain this coming with an Imam? Thanks.

black mamba
07-14-2006, 05:06 AM
ok. here goes:

:)

as per muslims, all Prophets brought the, effectively, the same message .... only modified as per the need of the time. hence muslim respect for Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc.

As per muslim belief, Jesus was never crucified. Instead, Judas (who the Romans mistook for Jesus) or somebody who looked a lot like Jesus was crucified. Jesus was raised to the Heavens.

Similarly, we believe that Imam Mehdi (the 12th Imam) was raised to the heavens once he was chased into a cave by the enemy and never reappeared from.

Now, as per ancient Islamic prophecies by the Prophet, there will come a time when muslims will be in a sorry state of affairs and will be getting a solid beating all over the world. At the time, Jesus Christ will descend in a mosque, in Jerusalem (i think....but will have to check) or Medina (Saudia Arabia) and he will guide the muslims & christians against the 'Anti-Christ' as christians call him and 'Dajjal' as muslims call him. Roughly around the same time period, Imam Mehdi will descend and Jesus Christ will hand over leadership to him. Together, they will fight the muslim hypocrites and defeat the 'Anti-Christ' and everybody will live happily ever after......till Judgement Day i guess! ;)

daily666
07-14-2006, 05:44 AM
ok. here goes:
Now, as per ancient Islamic prophecies by the Prophet, there will come a time when muslims will be in a sorry state of affairs and will be getting a solid beating all over the world. At the time, Jesus Christ will descend in a mosque, in Jerusalem (i think....but will have to check) or Medina (Saudia Arabia) and he will guide the muslims & christians against the 'Anti-Christ' as christians call him and 'Dajjal' as muslims call him. Roughly around the same time period, Imam Mehdi will descend and Jesus Christ will hand over leadership to him. Together, they will fight the muslim hypocrites and defeat the 'Anti-Christ' and everybody will live happily ever after......till Judgement Day i guess! ;)


If we wait for the same guy, why the antagonisms? ;)

...people can learn a lot from MP.net :D

Bert
07-14-2006, 06:35 AM
Quranic view of Jesus' death is funny.. It's the prototype of Arab conspiracy theories p-)

"[The Jews] said (in boast), 'We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah';- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them . . . Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself . . ."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.157

The joooOos!

black mamba
07-14-2006, 06:52 AM
the reason for antagonism has more to do with politics than religion. but i guess only time will tell.

camerashy
07-14-2006, 03:35 PM
I can't wait for the catholics and baptists to go at it!

daily666
07-14-2006, 04:06 PM
I can't wait for the catholics and baptists to go at it!


Go at what? I'm a catholic and I'm not going anywhere.

camerashy
07-14-2006, 04:24 PM
Go at what? I'm a catholic and I'm not going anywhere.
hardy har har

One?
07-14-2006, 05:27 PM
Imam Mehdi for sunnis is not born. For shia he is in hiding.

According to Islam jesus was not crucified. it says "shobiha lahom" which kind of means it looked like he was crucified. Jesus will return.

ed316
07-14-2006, 05:35 PM
Thanx for the article.

Ayura
07-14-2006, 06:33 PM
BTW - for the record:

The majority of the Ulema (Plural for Islamic Scholar) of the Sunni tradition have agreed that 'Mainstream Shia' is legit.

Steel21
07-15-2006, 10:06 PM
To think people died over such minute differences.

Nice refresher course, I took 2 course in Mid-East history while waiting around for my active duty date......... the course ended about 3 weeks before Sept 11, 2001.

Who are the Anti-Christ? Its hard to imagine Jesus Christ with a MICH Helmet on his head (non-reg haircut included) and some Stars on his collar leading said war.