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View Full Version : 14 july : French Military Parade



Tebryn
07-15-2006, 12:57 PM
Yesterday it was our national day !

Here's some pics of past parades (I've not yet find yesterday's good pictures).

http://plisson.capocea.com/images/banque-images/14juillet/Actu14juillet_1.jpg

Marine :

http://plisson.capocea.com/images/banque-images/14juillet/Actu14juillet_13.jpg

Republican guard :
(protection of the president, the government and officials buildings)
http://plisson.capocea.com/images/banque-images/14juillet/Actu14juillet_10.jpg

The command car :
(With Chirac and the army chief of staff -Bentegeat- facing the prime minister de Villepin and the defense minister Alliot Marie -in white-)

http://plisson.capocea.com/images/banque-images/14juillet/Actu14juillet_6.jpg

Leclerc :
(main battle tanks)
http://www.benoa.net/Photos/Dimage/PICT2912.jpg (http://www.benoa.net/france/14juillet/FRindex.html)

VBL :

http://www.benoa.net/Photos/Dimage/PICT2895.jpg (http://www.benoa.net/france/14juillet/FRindex.html)

Students from St Cyr :

http://www.benoa.net/Photos/Dimage/PICT2824.jpg (http://www.benoa.net/france/14juillet/FRindex.html)


Find other pics here :

> http://www.plisson.com/Plisson-pecheur-d-images/actualites/Defile+du+14+juillet/3/12.html

> http://www.benoa.net/france/14juillet/FRindex.html

phoilme
07-15-2006, 01:00 PM
"pretty, but can they fight?"

Flavius22
07-15-2006, 01:01 PM
where are the white flags

Avary
07-15-2006, 01:04 PM
where are the white flags
Please... :roll:

Conga
07-15-2006, 01:07 PM
where are the white flags
haha, real funny

flanker7
07-15-2006, 01:08 PM
where are the white flags

When the french military was rescuing western citizens throuout Africa most of you were still swimming inside your father's ********s.
(myself not excluded)
It's time to stop this *****......:roll:

GAFES
07-15-2006, 01:35 PM
Nice pics, although it looks kind of boring. Are their any videos? Maybe its different watching the parade in video.


By the way, mods take care of the trolls.

Atlantic Friend
07-15-2006, 01:40 PM
where are the white flags

Last time American saw white French flags near their shores, I dare say they were pretty happy and relieved, as they were the French Royal Navy battle flag. Yorktown, somebody ?

Atlantic Friend
07-15-2006, 01:41 PM
"pretty, but can they fight?"

Well, feel free to try them...;)

welshmann
07-15-2006, 01:44 PM
nice pics, thx

Tebryn
07-15-2006, 01:46 PM
Well it's true that we always try to avoid wars as we know, because of our national history (we have one us ! :) ), that the smell of the powder and the taste of blood are really not nice feelings...

But when we have to fight we do, as in Afghanistan or Ivory Coast at the moment.

Boring ? Well there's approximately one hour of infantrymen parade and then one hour of mechanical and aerial parade.
It's ok as journalists gives us some informations about each corps or vehicles.
That mustn't be so boring as it's always a great success with thousands of tourists and french citizens on each side of the Champ Elysée avenue.
But it's perhaps because shops are close this day :cantbeli:

Boina verde
07-15-2006, 01:47 PM
Why someone ppl say that the French are cowards? What’s the issue?

Heron
07-15-2006, 01:47 PM
great pics
thx

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 02:00 PM
Maybe because the French did not jump to participate in the whole Iraq debacle....

A certain percentage of the US population (mind you, not the smartest one) considers that as a sign of cowardice, hence the white flag comments

I am certain the French armed forces are pretty capable of fighting, and the courage of the French People is something that has been demonstrated throughout history again and again and again

Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé.
Contre nous, de la tyrannie,
L'étandard sanglant est levé,
l'étandard sanglant est levé,

Tebryn
07-15-2006, 02:19 PM
Well, feel free to try them...;-)

I just hope Israel won't follow your proposal as we are sending warships in lebanon territorial waters in order to take out of this dangerous imbroglio our compatriots. :roll:
Cause I don't think that we'll wait for tsahal's permission to protect our citizens...

Boina verde
07-15-2006, 02:26 PM
Well but allot of countries all over Europe was against it. In Portugal we send one company of the GNR (something like the Guarda Civil, or the Gendarmerie). They operated with the Italians included the GIS, in operations against the insurgents. The army couldn’t go because the president was against it.
If France didn’t go USA have to accept it!

LEGEND
07-15-2006, 02:32 PM
Why someone ppl say that the French are cowards? What’s the issue?

I think World War 2 has more to do with this then Iraq.

Boina verde
07-15-2006, 02:42 PM
Well France was conquered by the Germans like half of Europe, that make them cowards? USA also had the help of France in the past…
I remember of the Foreign Legion, the units of the free France that fought with courage and determination in WW2, in fact Paris free it self from the Germans. So…it’s a matter of locking at the big picture, and not just one phase of the war.

Tebryn
07-15-2006, 02:50 PM
True...
I don't consider that De Gaulle can be considered as a coward don't you think so ?
France is recognized by everybody as one of the victorious nations of WW2 as US, UK, the commonwealth and Soviet Union !
That's why we've got a permanent seat at the security council...

LEGEND
07-15-2006, 02:50 PM
Well France was conquered by the Germans like half of Europe, that make them cowards? USA also had the help of France in the past…
I remember of the Foreign Legion, the units of the free France that fought with courage and determination in WW2, in fact Paris free it self from the Germans. So…it’s a matter of locking at the big picture, and not just one phase of the war.

Its not the fact that France was conqured by the Germans, its how little resistance they put up and how fast they surrendered. Comparison arises between battles of Stalingrad, Kursk or even the way Germans fought to defend Berlin. I'm not judging if it was right or wrong to surrender so easely, just awnsering your questions about where all the "white flag" jokes come from.

vener6
07-15-2006, 03:08 PM
Hello,
How you doesn't know anything about the history of my country, read what follows! Click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_France)

@ Tebryn: very nice pictures ;)

Bye :roll:

Pidyon Shevuyim
07-15-2006, 03:34 PM
a few more pics...the Foreign Legion:

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1374/jul14pj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6826/jul142wh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8853/jul143ho1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

mas-36
07-15-2006, 03:45 PM
Its not the fact that France was conqured by the Germans, its how little resistance they put up and how fast they surrendered. Comparison arises between battles of Stalingrad, Kursk or even the way Germans fought to defend Berlin. I'm not judging if it was right or wrong to surrender so easely, just awnsering your questions about where all the "white flag" jokes come from.

You've got some serious reading to do...and not the Cliff Notes either. Maybe then people will think twice about making stupid infantile "white flag" and "surrender" jokes.

Compare French vs. British casualties, and you'll see which of the Allies did most of the fighting and dying in May-June 1940. Not everyone has the advantage of having a 20+ mile moat between them and the enemy.

Smok
07-15-2006, 04:04 PM
Do you have any bigger photo of this guy at front of the Foreign Legion?

LEGEND
07-15-2006, 04:24 PM
You've got some serious reading to do...and not the Cliff Notes either. Maybe then people will think twice about making stupid infantile "white flag" and "surrender" jokes.

Compare French vs. British casualties, and you'll see which of the Allies did most of the fighting and dying in May-June 1940. Not everyone has the advantage of having a 20+ mile moat between them and the enemy.


You dont have to prove anything to me, im simply awnsering a question of where do "white flag" jokes come from, it has nothing to do with my knowlege of military history.

Tebryn
07-15-2006, 04:33 PM
Hum... Nothing is free with you, not a word in an american mouth is innocent ! You want to destroy our great Nation stupid hamburger eater ! :fork:

Paranoiac ? Me ? Nooooooo... :bash:

I'm just joking... ;o)


Do you have any bigger photo of this guy at front of the Foreign Legion?


Here are some photos of the Foreign Legion ----> http://www.legion-etrangere.info/photos/

Atlantic Friend
07-15-2006, 04:43 PM
Its not the fact that France was conqured by the Germans, its how little resistance they put up and how fast they surrendered.

France lost 92,000 soldiers in six weeks - six WEEKS - of combat in 1940, and ended up with a grand total of 200,000 dead soldiers (French, Free French, and Resistance). As a reminder, the total American losses for WW2-Europe was 230,000 in 4 years of fighting. I think these figures should put the "lack of resistance" issue in its real perspective.

France fell after six weeks of intense combat - just like Poland, yet I don't see people saying the Poles are cowards...

As for resistance (or say, Resistance), here is a quote from a US booklet called "our friends the French" that was published in 1944-1945 for US GIs deployed to France, adressing some misconceptions which seem to die hard...


" Question 17 :The French talk a lot about their participation to the fight, but no American ever praised them.

Answer 17 : General Patton cabled French General Koenig that the 3rd Army spectacularly advance was made possible with the active participation of the Interior Free French forces.

General Patch estimated Resistance help during the Provence landing operation to having the equivalent of four more divisions.

In central France, Resistance action put the equivalent of two German divisions out of action, preventing their effective use against our forces.

In the Libyan desert, the defensive fight of the Free French soldiers at Bir Hakeim will stay in military history as an example of heroic defense.

Maybe some of us don't like to praise anyone but ourselves, and maybe some of us have a short memory"

And :


"Question 18 : the French didn't fight when the fight got more bitter. What have they done for us ?

Answer 18 : Here are a few examples of what the French did : they fought in Africa, in Sicily, in Italy...they liberated Corsica, they took part to the invasion of Europe and to the battles in France and Germany, from Normandy to Munich.

French naval units took part to the invasion of Sicily, Italy, Normandy and South of France.

French naval units and French merchant freighters took part to the protection of Allied convoys on the sea-lanes from Normandy to Murmansk.

On June the 5th, 1944, 5,000 Resistance fighters blew up 500 strategic bridges and railways. According to our experts, they delayed global German strategic troops movements for 2 days, days which saved a considerable number of American lives.

The French Resistance blew up a series of bridges in southern France and delayed the "Das Reich" elite German SS panzer division that was going from Bordeaux to Normandy.

In Brittany alone , 30,000 Resistant fighters supported the 8th Army Corps of the 3rd Army. They attacked and held key points, and waged guerrilla war on a massive scale behind German lines.

25,000 Resistance fighters covered the 3rd Army's southern flank as it advanced irresistibly through France. They got rid of German strong-points north of the Loire river, and held many cities as we asked them to do.

As our 3rd Army was approaching the Dijon-troyes sector our 7th army was approaching from the south, Resistance fighters prevented the Germans to form a resistance pocket and to retreat en masse.

In Paris itself, as our troops were approaching, several hundreds thousands Frenchmen and women rose against the Germans. 50,000 armed Resistance fighters fought the German garrison."

And finally :


"Question 104 : Why didn't the French fight the Germans ?

Answer 104 :

Millions of Frenchmen and women fought the Germans, with valor, skill, and patience.

The fighting French never stopped fighting : in the RAF, in the Soviet Union, in North Africa, in Italy, in France with the US 7th Army.

Here's how Frenchmen fought Germany after the defeat of their country in 1940 : they hampered war production in occupied factories, sabotaged machines, slowed down production, modified production programs.

They blew up factories, warehouses, phone lines. They sabotages trains, engines, bridges.

They formed armed groups who fought the German police, the Gestapo, the Vichy Militia. They executed French collaborators.

They formed a vast spying network which works for the Allies, sending up to 300 reports per day about German troops, military facilities and supplies.

They seized examples of new German weapons and explosives and sent the; to London.

They organized an underground network to allow downed Allied aviators to escape and go back to England. They then hid, clothed, fed and spirited out of France more than 4,000 aviators and paratroopers (getting food and clothes for others isn't easy when you have yourself trouble finding them). For each downed American that went through this network, 6 Frenchmen and women put their lives on the line.

Globally, a Frenchman was killed by the Germans every 2 hours from 1940 to 1944 in their efforts to stop the sabotages and the support to Allied troops."

But well, we are getting largely off-topic.

Galileo
07-15-2006, 05:11 PM
If you want a story about surrender, I can tell you one:

In August 1944 my father was a youg frenchman serving as a translator in the Task force Buttler, an amercian unit.
In mid august, during a reconnaissance misison near St Etienne, he was in a half track with 6 GI's when 2 germans suddenly stop the vehicule on the road, all GI's raise their hand up while my father say "we are the triple of them! Kill them", the americans replies : " At the speed us troops advance in France, we will be in Berlin in 8 days, so why risk your life".
They were held in a prisonner camp in the south of Germany, 8 days after they where captured, my father escape alone, cross south germany, austria and finally italy. He finish the war with the italian in the Alps fighting germans.
So when I hear 'white flag' and 'french' I always remember this story.

(sorry for my english, I am just a poor frenchman)

Eddy
07-15-2006, 05:16 PM
in fact Paris free it self from the Germans.

Actually when Parisians heard the allies forces were close enough they started to attack the Germans. The Free French Forces liberated Paris.

callous
07-15-2006, 05:23 PM
Cool pics. Thanks for the link to the Foreign Legion photos.

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 05:38 PM
Nice pics man.......what's the story with the brearded fellows bearing axes? There has to be a cool story behind them dudes.....


I just hope Israel won't follow your proposal as we are sending warships in lebanon territorial waters in order to take out of this dangerous imbroglio our compatriots.

I don't think Israelis are dumb.....taking on infantry with light arms is one thing. Taking on the French fleet is a whole different ball game

Eddy
07-15-2006, 05:40 PM
I don't think Israelis are dumb.....taking on infantry with light arms is one thing. Taking on the French fleet is a whole different ball game

Didnt they attack an american warship at some point ?

Greek soldier
07-15-2006, 05:40 PM
Legeona twn Ksenon ;)

It's the French Legion Etrangere these people.

DaGreatRV
07-15-2006, 05:40 PM
Nice pics.


BTW, anyone who watches enough discovery channel or NGC wouldn't say the french were cowards in the war.

My country surrenderd in 5 days and collaborated the most with the Nazi's,
but you don't hear 'whiteflag', or other dumb remarks about The Netherlands.
Why do americans dislike the french, i realy hope you don't think that the stereotypes are accurate.

Eddy
07-15-2006, 05:41 PM
Why do americans dislike the french, i realy hope you don't think that the stereotypes are accurate.

Cos we dont bend over.

Tony Blair is a good ally.

Greek soldier
07-15-2006, 05:44 PM
Americans are just naive about the French and the French military contribution to their fight against the British during their War of Independence.

Oh, did you know the first submarine of the US Navy was French?

The USS Alligator

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/248/250pxussalligator0844401ub1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 05:46 PM
It wasn't a warship.....it was a liberty-class freighter, operated by the NSA, on signal inteligence mission. Poor bastards had nothing but .50 cal MGs to defend themselves......

I am sure the French ship commanders are familiar with the story and not likely to get caught with their pants down. Besides, they do not stand alone.....

Eddy
07-15-2006, 05:50 PM
I am sure the French ship commanders are familiar with the story and not likely to get caught with their pants down. Besides, they do not stand alone.....

Let them fire on us, see what happens.

LEGEND
07-15-2006, 05:56 PM
Let them fire on us, see what happens.


you'll show a white flag and surrender?p-)



just kidding, dont take it personal.

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 06:05 PM
Remember what happened when someone bombed a French military unit? I think it was in the Ivory coast?

The French came back and wiped out the country's entire air force......so it does not happen again.

Israel does not want to piss off the french, or the EU for that matter by doing something as dumb as bombing a french ship.

Call us europeans Anti-semitic but we do have a mutual support accord and we are not likely to react very well to one of our fellow europeans have their ships bombed

LEGEND
07-15-2006, 06:09 PM
Remember what happened when someone bombed a French military unit? I think it was in the Ivory coast?

The French came back and wiped out the country's entire air force......so it does not happen again.


LOL this is even better comparison then French navy vs Israeli navy...
Oh, the formidable Ivory Cosat Air Force!!!!!!!




The whole Ivorian Coast air force consisted of -
* Five helicopter gunships
* Two Russian made Sukhoi warplanes
rofl

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 06:17 PM
I made no comparisons whatsoever, and I wonder how come you make them. The point of my reference to the Ivory coast incident was to demnostrate french deciseveness when their troops are attacked.

Speaking of comparisons, though......I remember on a similar occasion, the US Navy stood still and watched its own sailors get butchered and did nothing about it......At least the french had the balls to do something about it. A French unit was attacked and the french responded in kind. Nothing I see makes me believe that they will not retaliate again if attacked.

Eddy
07-15-2006, 06:24 PM
you'll show a white flag and surrender?p-)



just kidding, dont take it personal.



Sure I wont take it personnally when you openly make a comment on the military of my country. Dip****.

And no. We wont surrender. Think Israel can take us ? Bring the sauce Shlomo !

TR1
07-15-2006, 06:27 PM
* Two Russian made Sukhoi warplanes
rofl

as opposed to those Sukhoi's which were not Russian made, right?

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 06:34 PM
And you will not be standing alone, mon ami......

Back to the important stuff, though.......

Why the foreign legion troops carry the beard and these axes? Any particular reason/story/tradition behind it?

LEGEND
07-15-2006, 06:44 PM
Sure I wont take it personnally when you openly make a comment on the military of my country. Dip****.

And no. We wont surrender. Think Israel can take us ? Bring the sauce Shlomo !

This comment just shows your immaturity if you put personal insults into your replies.

Eddy
07-15-2006, 06:48 PM
This comment just shows your immaturity if you put personal insults into your replies.

My immaturity ? Because i call you dip**** ?

You're the one going for the american stereotype.

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 06:50 PM
Come on, people, let's end this crap.......let's see some more photos from the parade

Eddy
07-15-2006, 06:52 PM
Yeah lets.

LEGEND
07-15-2006, 06:52 PM
My immaturity ? Because i call you dip**** ?

You're the one going for the american stereotype.

DUDE!!!! READ WHAT I WROTE BEFORE. The guy asked why are there these "white flag" jokes, so i explained the stereotype. and then you and others started the personal attacks on me and stupid comparisons of French and Israeli navies and the "bring it on Israel" rhethoric.

Buy your statements looks like youd be more then happy if French fleet takes the side of your friends "hizballah" and shows is to the jews.

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Actually, the name of the group is "Hezbollah", meaning "Party of God"

Once again you fall into the stereotype.....

The mission of the French navy is not to side with anyone, but rather to show the flag in the area and ensure that no French citizents are harmed by ANYONE. It is a good thing that France takes action and I think that other European nations should do the same. Perhaps if the combined fleet of EU members sailed in the area, the crisis would de-escalate. Kind of hard for all sides to act dumb with half the world's navies over the horizon

If anyone chooses to attack such a force, well, I guess he does it at his own risk

Hutz
07-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Damn, maybe all French threads should be banned just like the Balkans and 'Russia vs.' threads since they seem to end up in immature and sometimes ignorant flame wars.

*TeUFeL*
07-15-2006, 07:35 PM
Nice pics.


BTW, anyone who watches enough discovery channel or NGC wouldn't say the french were cowards in the war.

My country surrenderd in 5 days and collaborated the most with the Nazi's,
but you don't hear 'whiteflag', or other dumb remarks about The Netherlands.
Why do americans dislike the french, i realy hope you don't think that the stereotypes are accurate.

the thing is that the french had the one of the biggest and strongest armies of the time, everybody though they were going to fight the germans...but even the poles killed more germans with their small and weak army than the french..... thats why everybody joke about how the french will surrender on the first chance they get

Ozymandias
07-15-2006, 07:44 PM
Actually the problem with the French army back in the late 30s was not its lack of numbers, or courage, but lack of organisation and modern planning.

The French high command was preparing to fight WW1 all over again and built massive fortresses, wheras German high command seemed to have learned its lessons.

After France capitulated, the french were pretty much screwed under the Vichi gov't. The options were rather limited.

Those that managed to leave france and join the Free French fought with great courage and nobody can deny that.....

Thousands others joined the resistance whose actions helped the allied cause.

Thousands paid the bitter price for their courage.

Boina verde
07-15-2006, 07:46 PM
I hould like to see some pics...please?! Have you anny pics of the Paras?

Avary
07-15-2006, 08:37 PM
yeah. Cut it out with the "I can piss farther than you" "So and so STRONG!!!" bull****. This is a thread of pictures of the Bastille Day Parade. Flaming is very impolite and rude. Take the whining elsewhere, please. It's annoying.

Karo
07-15-2006, 09:16 PM
p-)

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

Pidyon Shevuyim
07-15-2006, 09:18 PM
p-)

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

older then the internet troll....

Boina verde
07-15-2006, 09:24 PM
What? I say Paras, not another link of website. Special such a poor excuse of an website.

Daniel San
07-15-2006, 09:38 PM
As someone else on this forum once said "*****ing over France is SOOO 2003"!

Stop flaming for nothing and comment the pics! They are quite nice...

lrrps
07-16-2006, 02:19 AM
When the french military was rescuing western citizens throuout Africa most of you were still swimming inside your father's ********s.
(myself not excluded)
It's time to stop this *****......:roll:

Totally agree with you, grow up people.

lrrps
07-16-2006, 02:28 AM
Cos we dont bend over.

Tony Blair is a good ally.

You mean a boot licker?

Prodigal
07-16-2006, 03:11 AM
You mean a boot licker?

dahhh.... economics of war, that makes you a good ally.

Tebryn
07-16-2006, 04:59 AM
French paras pics ?


Here's a video of a commando of the 1st paratrooper regiment of marine infantry ----> http://www.rpima1.terre.defense.gouv.fr/coeur_regiment/missions/video/index.html#
(just click on "voir la vidéo") (really cool but there don't seem to be sound)

And here's some pics of an other para commando ----> http://le.cos.free.fr/cpa10.htm
And one more -----> http://le.cos.free.fr/gcp.htm

Some pics here too (quite old)----> http://tdm.vo.qc.ca/para/para001.htm
(just choose a section)

Foreign Legion para commando photos ----> http://www.f5.dion.ne.jp/~mirage/hypams00/2e.rep.gcp.html

And of course in the archives of the defense ministry ----> http://www.ecpad.fr/ecpa/index.htm (just ask for "parachutistes")

DaGreatRV
07-16-2006, 08:10 AM
I hope this wasn't posted before.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41886000/jpg/_41886938_flypast_ap416.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41886000/jpg/_41886942_leclerc_afp416.jpg

roland
07-16-2006, 06:09 PM
...but even the poles killed more germans with their small and weak army than the french....

mwah ha ha and you get this tale where ? nobody ever told you to get a minimum informed before opening your mouth on a subject ?

Froggy_Man
07-19-2006, 05:02 AM
pffff can't you just stop bashing there and there... what is the point???

However for those who are interested, here are some picture from this BAstille Day and Parade in Paris... they are my pictures and I also made a few videos, they are not all good but some are.
Watch out 500 Mo to download.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5D5E4C1160E82DE0

I believe this link will be available untill next Monday.

Enjoy :)

Hawkeye
07-19-2006, 06:28 AM
Maybe because the French did not jump to participate in the whole Iraq debacle....

A certain percentage of the US population (mind you, not the smartest one) considers that as a sign of cowardice, hence the white flag comments

I am certain the French armed forces are pretty capable of fighting, and the courage of the French People is something that has been demonstrated throughout history again and again and again

Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé.
Contre nous, de la tyrannie,
L'étandard sanglant est levé,
l'étandard sanglant est levé,



Except that time we beat them in 1302.

Sharp
07-19-2006, 09:20 AM
who beat who in 1302? just find a sicilian war for that year...

Ozymandias
07-19-2006, 10:03 AM
Perhaps he's referring to the Battle of Courtrai, in flanders?

Deicide
07-19-2006, 10:08 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs

Heron
07-19-2006, 10:12 AM
pffff can't you just stop bashing there and there... what is the point???

However for those who are interested, here are some picture from this BAstille Day and Parade in Paris... they are my pictures and I also made a few videos, they are not all good but some are.
Watch out 500 Mo to download.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5D5E4C1160E82DE0

I believe this link will be available untill next Monday.

Enjoy :)

best one in this thread!!
thx for sharing,mate
great

Musashi
07-19-2006, 10:24 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs
This article should be in other topic, not here. So stop trolling.


France fell after six weeks of intense combat - just like Poland, yet I don't see people saying the Poles are cowards...
I don't consider the French cowards, btw. Poles fought numerous times alongside with the French in the Napoleonic Army in XIX century. Moreover we fought to the bitter end (not as your "seasonal allies", that left you just when the Napoleonic Army started losing battles) and the Polish soldiers saved a humble Napoleon's ass, when he was escaping through the Berezina River. Compare the losses during the battle of Leipzig:
- Polish Army (a part of the Napoleonic Army): 75%,
- The Napoleonic Army (including Poles): 23%


Poland fell after 5 weeks in 1939, not 6. But we fought against Germans, Soviets and Slovaks. Look at a map of pre-war Poland. My country was surrounded before the war and almost entire border, except small parts with Romania, Hungary, Lithuania and Latvia was a frontline.
The French had a chance to win the war in 1940. Contrary to Poles, they had more tanks than Germans (that were in larger part much better than German ones), were not surrounded, total allied forces had comparable number of divisions like Germans.
Poland was attacked from four sides and did not have so much equipment like France. We had 211 light tanks, 600 tankettes (imagine the British carrier with a roof and armed with 7,92mm MG), 146 Ming-era fighter planes (their max speed was 375km/h - slower than German bombers, but they managed to shot down 147 German planes; I don't count the planes shot down by the Polish air defence and crews of bombers), just 30 infantry divisions, 9 reserve infantry divisions, 11 cavalry brigades and 2 motorised brigades. There was not a chance to win against the Germans, Soviets and Slovaks.

Froggy_Man
07-19-2006, 10:53 AM
[Quote]best one in this thread!!
thx for sharing,mate
great[quote]

All my pleasure mate!

At least somebody interested in the French Parade (which is the the topic of this thread by the way) instead of bull***tting about a battle in 1306 and trying to wonder if Polish di.k is bigger than French ones...

Pathetic

Paul in Saudi2
07-19-2006, 11:12 AM
Nice pics man.......what's the story with the brearded fellows bearing axes? There has to be a cool story behind them dudes.....


I cannot see the photos (and if someone would send them to me, I would appreciate it), that being said.

The bearded dudes are the sapper, the guy who proceeds the advance clearing a path. The role is often taken by a sergeant major who carries a highly polished ax (or axe, depending) and wears white gloves and a white a****, symbols of the French military engineer.

phoilme
07-19-2006, 11:32 AM
I enjoy the photos. Do they put the tanks back in storage right after or do they let the children play on them? And talk all you want about how the French could have defeated the Germans in WWII. It didn't happen. DeGaulle got too much credit. He got credit for the resistance. If not for the French resistance, the invasion of France may have failed and DeGaulle had little to do with their tactics or supplying. Churchill even stated that due to the resistance, the allies avoided what amounted to 100,000 German soldiers.

Ozymandias
07-19-2006, 11:33 AM
Paul.....that's really interesting info, thanks, mate........

Does the axe have anything to do with the famous "enforcer", Lt. Legros from the Hugomont farm in Waterloo?

Thunder
07-19-2006, 11:37 AM
My country surrenderd in 5 days and collaborated the most with the Nazi's,
but you don't hear 'whiteflag', or other dumb remarks about The Netherlands.That's comparing apples with oranges...


The French jokes were funny at one point, but now it's just getting annoying as people take them for truth.

Froggy_Man
07-19-2006, 12:24 PM
I enjoy the photos. Do they put the tanks back in storage right after or do they let the children play on them?

After the parade all tanks and vehicule are parked on different avenues, it gives a few hours to discuss with the militaries and even climb on tanks and visit them as you can see on the pictures...

Also a few of them are showed during all day in different places of Paris. It is then "funny" because you see some place to place in the town so huge tanks and others armoured vehicule driving almsot by their in the town, mixed with the regular traffic.

As for the walking troops I believe they leave right after the parade.

Deicide
07-19-2006, 01:53 PM
This article should be in other topic, not here. So stop trolling.
If you read the entire thread, you'll see i'm not trolling but answer to a question of my french compatriote about our history.

DaGreatRV
07-19-2006, 02:02 PM
That's comparing apples with oranges...


The French jokes were funny at one point, but now it's just getting annoying as people take them for truth.
Ok the French had a fine army, but lacked the tactics to defend against 'blizkrieg' tactics.
But the Dutch only started to mobilize in 1939, that was way to late, they thought that The Netherlands could stay neutral like in WW1. :oops:

But we did stall the germans! The plan was that The Netherlands should fall in ONE day. After FIVE days Hitler got impatient and orderd the bombing of Rotterdam. After wich the dutch governement capitulated to spare civilian lives. One could interped this as cowardice but they knew it was impossible to win, so thy didn't want civilians to suffer for a lost cause.

Paul in Saudi2
07-20-2006, 12:06 AM
Paul.....that's really interesting info, thanks, mate........

Does the axe have anything to do with the famous "enforcer", Lt. Legros from the Hugomont farm in Waterloo?


The Corps de Genie (pardon my written French, basic spelling eludes me) predate Waterloo. Further I do not know if the very large and very brave Lt Legros was a Sapper.

So is someone going to send me some parade photos? Something to make a nice wallpaper?

Froggy_Man
07-20-2006, 03:05 AM
So is someone going to send me some parade photos? Something to make a nice wallpaper?

Hi there, can't you click on the link I have put in the post?? Strange.
Because it is 500 Mo and don't know how I could them to you?

Paul in Saudi2
07-20-2006, 08:16 AM
Most photos sites are locked in Saudi Arabia. Oddly you can send whatever you like by e-mail. (My address is in my profile, isn't it?)

haze99
07-22-2006, 06:53 PM
I remember the French garrison in Berlin, Quartier Napoleon! I darn sure liked the French/German Volkfest! Whoa! Very nice!
(I wish, that I had taken a picture of that AMX-30 back in early 1994. They had just come from Doughboy City.) Quite a sight to see tanks rumbling through Zehlendorf! We (USA) had already shipped out the M-1 Abrams in 1992, which left Turner Barracks empty!

Abu_Elvis
07-22-2006, 09:33 PM
"pretty, but can they fight?" Hmmm...

Check out the naval ensign:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr~mon.html#pwe
It is called "Franse Witte Vlag".

woot

Abu_Elvis
07-22-2006, 09:34 PM
where are the white flags
p-) See post above. You wanted to say "Franse Witte Vlag"

BTW, it's a joke, no flame wars, please... Just a funny curiosity... French navy did use white flag before the french revolution.

Abu_Elvis
07-22-2006, 09:57 PM
Sure I wont take it personnally when you openly make a comment on the military of my country. Dip****.

And no. We wont surrender. Think Israel can take us ? Bring the sauce Shlomo ! Last time we fought, it was similar. French vichy with muslim brotherhood insugrents against palmach in syria. Guess who lost. Do you want to try that again, join forces with muslim extremists to fight jews?

So much hate... What did your prez say? There is no antisemitism in france? :roll: How come you are so eager to fight israel, and so much against fighting taleban or saddam?

tomcat1974
07-23-2006, 03:33 AM
How come you are so eager to fight israel, and so much against fighting taleban or saddam?

Get your info's straight ... France is fighting Talebans ... Not Saddam, but hell sure the ****ing afgani talebans

kabex
07-23-2006, 05:08 AM
Why do Americans feel the need to take a crap on every single thread about France?

Hell, in every thread about Mexico(my country) an American comes in and makes a smart ass comment using some stupid stereotype.

I'd like to see these people warned. Every single time somebody mentions a country the US dislikes, we get about a dozen Americans taking a crap all over the thread and it goes way off topic for endless pages.

I came here to see some French military pics, all I got was a bunch of ignorants going "durrrr!!!! durrr!" like every other time I click on a thread with "France" on it.

I can't even begin to imagine how French posters on this forum must feel, I always see these guys having to defend France against ignorant comments, seriously. Leave them the hell alone.

BTW, kudos to Atlantic Friend for always standing up for his country. I always see him educating the ignorant. We need more like you.

Also, if anyone has more pics of this parade or links, I'd like to see the FFL stuff!

Inconnu
07-23-2006, 06:13 AM
...

you came to answer the topic for saying just ***** and causing?


sale batard de gros porc.

Switek
07-23-2006, 07:43 AM
France provides, along with the United States and other countries, troops for the force stationed in Haiti, sanctioned by the United Nations, following the 2004 Haiti rebellion.

France has sent troops, especially special forces, into Afghanistan to help the United States and NATO forces fight the remains of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

A force of a few thousand French soldiers, under a mandate from the UN (Opération Licorne), are stationned in Côte d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast) on a peacekeeping mission. These troops were initially sent under the terms of a mutual protection pact between France and Côte d'Ivoire, but the mission has since evolved into the current UN peacekeeping operation.

source: Wikipedia

I should add presence of FA in Congo and .... ?

btw. France is very often critizes by its independent policy (sometimes contrary to US) but French Army is still one of the most efficient army in the world which can operate independently from other countries in overseas operations...

kovy
07-23-2006, 08:20 AM
You will find pics of the flying parade here :

planes : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10228

helicopters : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10233

from a navy panther : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10296

chopers taking off from lebourget airport : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10235

picpus
07-23-2006, 08:27 AM
Je suis italien, mais j'aime beaucoup la France que je considère ma deuxième patrie; il faut dire que dans le conflit entre les israeliens et les terroristes, la France se trouve toujours de la part des terroristes parce qu'elle croit de cette façon de se proteger des attentats (c'est pas trop sympa de penser comme ça!), mais le français devraient se souvenir de l'attentat au métro parisien du 1995 et déjà en ce temps là ils étaient filo-arabes!!!

Il faut dire aussi que, malheureusement, dans peu de temps, il n'y aura plus de vrais français (de souche on dit, je crois) en France, qui peuvent se souvenir de l'histoire de la France, passée e recente, et donc de l'amitié franco-americaine!!!

Je ne connais pas l'anglais se vous voulez me répondre utilisez la langue de Molière!

Ma signature dit comme je pense dans mon coeur!

P.S. Magnifique comme toujours le défilé du 14 juillet: je suis toutes les années a Paris pour le voir!


http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5288/bandieraitaliana0tb.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8971/bandierafrancese4rh.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2752/bandierastatunitense4hh.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8818/flag2xh.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Olybrius
07-23-2006, 09:32 AM
You will find pics of the flying parade here :

planes : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10228

helicopters : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10233

from a navy panther : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10296

chopers taking off from lebourget airport : http://www.foxalpha.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10235

very impressive , thxs

Sharp
07-23-2006, 10:17 AM
Je suis italien, mais j'aime beaucoup la France que je considère ma deuxième patrie; il faut dire que dans le conflit entre les israeliens et les terroristes, la France se trouve toujours de la part des terroristes parce qu'elle croit de cette façon de se proteger des attentats (c'est pas trop sympa de penser comme ça!), mais le français devraient se souvenir de l'attentat au métro parisien du 1995 et déjà en ce temps là ils étaient filo-arabes!!!

Il faut dire aussi que, malheureusement, dans peu de temps, il n'y aura plus de vrais français (de souche on dit, je crois) en France, qui peuvent se souvenir de l'histoire de la France, passée e recente, et donc de l'amitié franco-americaine!!!

Je ne connais pas l'anglais se vous voulez me répondre utilisez la langue de Molière!

Ma signature dit comme je pense dans mon coeur!

P.S. Magnifique comme toujours le défilé du 14 juillet: je suis toutes les années a Paris pour le voir!


http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5288/bandieraitaliana0tb.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8971/bandierafrancese4rh.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Salut à toi :)
La France n'est pas du côté des "terroristes" comme tu le dis, mais se voudrait plutôt des "pauvres" contre les "riches".
Je suis désolé mais en tant que français (bon on va dire de souche à 50% vu que ma famille est italienne) je peux t'assurer que le pays ne fait pas ça pour se proteger des islamistes ou autre propagande que tu as pu lire.

on pourrait en discuter, mais ce serait assez Hors Sujet, et les ricains n'apprecieraient pas...

for your english friends : the guy above dont speak english then i respond it in french.. :p
btw he was just sayin that the 14 jully was superb.. as always :)

Abu_Elvis
07-23-2006, 10:30 AM
for your english friends : the guy above dont speak english then i respond it in french.. :p
btw he was just sayin that the 14 jully was superb.. as always :) Well, happy bastille day. I was thinking of droping his response into babelfish, and responding in a similar way.

Inconnu
07-23-2006, 10:32 AM
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2259/sanstitre50cm.jpg

A missille with the tops of Paris

Zeev
07-23-2006, 10:37 AM
Je suis italien, mais j'aime beaucoup la France que je considère ma deuxième patrie; il faut dire que dans le conflit entre les israeliens et les terroristes, la France se trouve toujours de la part des terroristes parce qu'elle croit de cette façon de se proteger des attentats (c'est pas trop sympa de penser comme ça!), mais le français devraient se souvenir de l'attentat au métro parisien du 1995 et déjà en ce temps là ils étaient filo-arabes!!!

Il faut dire aussi que, malheureusement, dans peu de temps, il n'y aura plus de vrais français (de souche on dit, je crois) en France, qui peuvent se souvenir de l'histoire de la France, passée e recente, et donc de l'amitié franco-americaine!!!

Je ne connais pas l'anglais se vous voulez me répondre utilisez la langue de Molière!

Ma signature dit comme je pense dans mon coeur!

P.S. Magnifique comme toujours le défilé du 14 juillet: je suis toutes les années a Paris pour le voir!


http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5288/bandieraitaliana0tb.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8971/bandierafrancese4rh.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2752/bandierastatunitense4hh.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8818/flag2xh.gif (http://imageshack.us)

je ne crois pas que si la france agit ainsi c est par "amour" pour le monde arabo musulman, mais tout simplement par interet... faut comprendre les francais quand meme ils ne vont quand meme pas se mettre a dos un marché de plusieurs centaines de millions de personnes a qui ils vendent des airbus, des voitures etc etc et a qui ils achetent du petrole et du gaz! donc moi bien que je ne cautionne pas toujours la politique francaise, je la comprends tout a fait car chaque pays doit veiller a ses interets, et malgré ces pe**** differents, je n ai jamais vu la france comme un ennemi d israel... c est juste dommage que cet etat soit otage du monde arabo musulman, et aussi de la grande communauté musulmane qui vit dans le territoire francais meme... quoi qu il en soit J AIME LA FRANCE :hug:

Atlantic Friend
07-24-2006, 03:28 PM
Ok the French had a fine army, but lacked the tactics to defend against 'blizkrieg' tactics.
But the Dutch only started to mobilize in 1939, that was way to late, they thought that The Netherlands could stay neutral like in WW1. :oops:

But we did stall the germans! The plan was that The Netherlands should fall in ONE day. After FIVE days Hitler got impatient and orderd the bombing of Rotterdam. After wich the dutch governement capitulated to spare civilian lives. One could interped this as cowardice but they knew it was impossible to win, so thy didn't want civilians to suffer for a lost cause.

Let's keep in mind that to defeat Germany allied with central European powers in WW1, it took France, the UK, Italy, Belgium, Japan, Russia, and the United States.

And yet people expect France and the British Expeditionary Force to defeat Germany alone with Russia supplying the Germans, Italy and Japan allied to the Germans, and the United States neutral ? Let's get real.

Atlantic Friend
07-24-2006, 03:33 PM
Last time we fought, it was similar. French vichy with muslim brotherhood insugrents against palmach in syria. Guess who lost.

Er, Elvis, the Vichy French forces in Syria faced mainly Australian and *cough*cough* Free French troops. So you might want, you know, to get off your high horse here.

[Edit : I sure didn't know the history of the Palmach went that far...]

Zarathustra
07-24-2006, 03:36 PM
Salut à toi :)
La France n'est pas du côté des "terroristes" comme tu le dis, mais se voudrait plutôt des "pauvres" contre les "riches".

Bof on agirait plutôt selon nos intêrets, qui se trouvaient en Afrique et dans le Moyen-Orient. Je pense pas que le gouvernement français soit si larmoyant des pauvres, pas plus que les USA a mon avis.


Je suis désolé mais en tant que français (bon on va dire de souche à 50% vu que ma famille est italienne) je peux t'assurer que le pays ne fait pas ça pour se proteger des islamistes ou autre propagande que tu as pu lire.

D'accord.

Abu_Elvis
07-24-2006, 07:56 PM
Er, Elvis, the Vichy French forces in Syria faced mainly Australian and *cough*cough* Free French troops. So you might want, you know, to get off your high horse here.
Let us not continue with the flaming thingie... It was a reply to some not so smart and rather offensive statements by two french guys.

600 palmach men (all there were in '41) were there. Some did recon, some were guides, etc. Grunts were 7th aussie, some indian division and 3 free french brigades, with complete palmach doing recon, demolitions, acted as guides... On the other side it was vichy levant army and some foreign legion regiment that was on vichy side. Arabs didn't really contribute. For example, Itzhak Rabin inserted behind vichy lines for recon before the operation. Moshe Dayan lost his eye, while he was a guide/scout for aussies.

[Edit : I sure didn't know the history of the Palmach went that far...]

It did. They were founded, it would seem, for that campaign, a month before it from haganah people that have proven themselfs in fighting Rashid Ali al-Kilani pro nazi revolt in Iraq just few months before. Task was protecting british back (from direction of syria and lebanon), while british try to beat Rommel. They tried to dismantle them after El Alamein, but palmach just went underground, with all that nice Orde Wingate training and combat expirience doing SF work for the allies in middle east. It really helped in the war of independance, and was the core of IDF special forces. And it helped to smugle jews in in white paper period.

Anyway, it is a big subject, there is no way that such a subject would survive with no flame wars, so it is better left alone on forums. It is better to read books on the subject.

Atlantic Friend
07-25-2006, 02:35 AM
Let us not continue with the flaming thingie... It was a reply to some not so smart and rather offensive statements by two french guys.

600 palmach men (all there were in '41) were there. Some did recon, some were guides, etc. Grunts were 7th aussie, some indian division and 3 free french brigades, with complete palmach doing recon, demolitions, acted as guides... On the other side it was vichy levant army and some foreign legion regiment that was on vichy side. Arabs didn't really contribute. For example, Itzhak Rabin inserted behind vichy lines for recon before the operation. Moshe Dayan lost his eye, while he was a guide/scout for aussies.

Very interesting ! I really didn't realize the Palmach history took roots in the WW2 Levant campaign - and yet I had read Martin van Creveld's book about the history of Tsahal !

I edited my second post after a quick visit to Wikipedia and their entry on Palmach. It looked rather complete (or say, complete enough for ignoramuses such as myself), but said nothing on their effective military role - in fact the article almost gives the impression the Palmach was disbanded without being used. Tell you what, I think maybe you should go there and propose to modify the article so it includes information about actual WW2 missions.


It did. They were founded, it would seem, for that campaign, a month before it from haganah people that have proven themselfs in fighting Rashid Ali al-Kilani pro nazi revolt in Iraq just few months before. Task was protecting british back (from direction of syria and lebanon), while british try to beat Rommel. They tried to dismantle them after El Alamein, but palmach just went underground, with all that nice Orde Wingate training and combat expirience doing SF work for the allies in middle east. It really helped in the war of independance, and was the core of IDF special forces. And it helped to smugle jews in in white paper period.

The first Jewish military units really have an interesting history ! I read that there was some kind of naval commando that was trained by Mussolini's Fascist Italy in the 1930s, so as to help Jews smuggle into Palestine despite numerous British naval patrols.


Anyway, it is a big subject, there is no way that such a subject would survive with no flame wars, so it is better left alone on forums. It is better to read books on the subject.

Well, we shouldn't shy away from flame wars - it's History after all, it's made to be learned and taught and above all discussed. In a way, if it hadn't been for your harsh comment to Eddy, I wouldn't have known about that aspect of the Africa/ME campaign.

See, one of the most popular threads this year has been about SS troops, a rather nauseating choice as far as I am concerned, but it's good that people could react to it and learn things. Me, I'd rather put the Palmach under the limelights than any SS unit !

kabex
07-25-2006, 03:07 AM
so where are the parade pics!

Frenchies, get to work. ;)

AROUETLJ
07-25-2006, 06:12 AM
Just to piss you all off, here's The Man himself:

http://img143.imagevenue.com/loc505/th_17836_100_1196_505lo.jpg (http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=17836_100_1196_505lo.jpg)
http://www.esnips.com/nsdoc/5d7a86e6-c1e6-4220-aaea-0dae518d1423

Ddavid
07-25-2006, 08:04 AM
Nice new chopper, but quite useless : still without missile :|

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/741/sanstitre144eo.jpg

Atlantic Friend
07-25-2006, 08:29 AM
Nice new chopper, but quite useless : still without missile :|

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/741/sanstitre144eo.jpg

Well, it's a parade, not an operational deployment ! In real operations the Tiger can carry HOT, Trigat, and Hellfire missiles, as well as Mistral AA missiles, and rockets.

jipman
07-25-2006, 08:49 AM
A French man weeps as the Nazis march into Paris, June 14, 1940
(Photo credit: U.S. National Archives)

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/1756/entermp1.jpg

Abu_Elvis
07-25-2006, 09:00 AM
Very interesting ! I really didn't realize the Palmach history took roots in the WW2 Levant campaign - and yet I had read Martin van Creveld's book about the history of Tsahal !

I edited my second post after a quick visit to Wikipedia and their entry on Palmach. It looked rather complete (or say, complete enough for ignoramuses such as myself), but said nothing on their effective military role - in fact the article almost gives the impression the Palmach was disbanded without being used. Tell you what, I think maybe you should go there and propose to modify the article so it includes information about actual WW2 missions.
These books usually skip the first part. They usually start at about 1947... While the real begining is in WWI, in organisations like Nili that were spying on turks. I did speak a little about it on women in military thread. Those things really influenced IDF's doctrine and view on discipline. Doctrine of taking the fight to the enemy is pure Wingate, and slack dress code, while keeping high motivation, that's aussies. Those same aussies that fought there, they held Tobruk and gave british time to prepare victory in El Alamein. But, when not on the front, they were more then undisciplined. In Sarafand camp (near Lod) they burned down their barracs, beause it ha lice problem. They sat on the grass, drinking beer, and threatning anyone who tried to extinguish it, and MPs that busted them. But they were the toughest fighters in ME in WWII. Rommel danced on the face of anyobdy he faced, until he met aussie 7th. It was a big thing, in mandatory palestine, people started packing bags, there was panic, and hajj Amin al Husseini was already organising transports for Jews to Auschwitz. Future IDF brass was very impressed, and wanted that kind of an army, and not an army for parade grounds. They didn't like standard british officers anyway, they were too monty pyonesque.

The first Jewish military units really have an interesting history ! I read that there was some kind of naval commando that was trained by Mussolini's Fascist Italy in the 1930s, so as to help Jews smuggle into Palestine despite numerous British naval patrols. By Mussolini? It must have been earlyer. Mussolini's first bet for influence in middle east was zionists. Later he decided to apease arabs, but his anti zionist policies started before the 30es. Anyway, Fascist italy wasn't really antisemitic until they passed racial laws in '38. There were many jewish officials in fascist party. If you are intrested in that, i already recommended a book on the topic, on a different thread. Dan Vittorio Segre's autobiography, "Memoirs of a Fortunate Jew". This book is not some glorified hero story, but a personal and very touchy story, of a young fachist youth jew being forced to emigrate in '39 because racial laws prevented him from going to agricultural school. He joins a kibbutz, then an agricultural school in Israel (where he joins haganah), and then british army where he is taken to intelligence's italian department. Since it is not some glorified history, but a personal story (segre says many times in the book that he is a coward, but writing so personal stuff ina book makes him a hero), and a well written one. But it does touch a lot the early history of IDF. While not palmach, half of it is about jews in british army, who are at the same time smuggling jews from europe into the mandate. Original is in italian, if you read italian.

Well, we shouldn't shy away from flame wars - it's History after all, it's made to be learned and taught and above all discussed. In a way, if it hadn't been for your harsh comment to Eddy, I wouldn't have known about that aspect of the Africa/ME campaign. I nearly got banned after some "Russia strong!!11" people started a flame war. And only offensive thing I said was telling a russian guy that I won't respond to his post until he learns how to use "quote" tags. He would put both quotes and his answer in quote, so when I pressed quote post, I got nothing. I was warned, and like 3-4 russians were banned.

See, one of the most popular threads this year has been about SS troops, a rather nauseating choice as far as I am concerned, but it's good that people could react to it and learn things. Me, I'd rather put the Palmach under the limelights than any SS unit ! Yes, and SS were not so much elite, as fanatical ideological outfit. New templars that were supposed to renew pure aryan blood with careful breeding, and thus restore aryan supernatural powers, like telepathy and telecinesis. They were quite sick. All that Thule society, Madame Blavadsky, mumbo jumbo black magic was the source of nazi ideology, and everything revolved around SS. They were not just a unit, they were a ubermench test population deep into 19th century mysticism, conspiracy theories and quasi science. I did some reading, and I watched a documentary, on occult foundations of nazi ideology. It's scary, what they did for what reasons. It would be like if (not a flame, just example) in france rises a nazi party that bases its ideology on Da Vinci Code, and tries to wipe out all italians, because they conspired against the holy feminine.

vener6
07-25-2006, 09:09 AM
A French man weeps as the Nazis march into Paris, June 14, 1940
(Photo credit: U.S. National Archives)

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/1756/entermp1.jpg

Dear Sir,
What you want to say to us by showing this image?

Bye :|

Atlantic Friend
07-25-2006, 09:56 AM
A French man weeps as the Nazis march into Paris, June 14, 1940
(Photo credit: U.S. National Archives)

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/1756/entermp1.jpg

Actually, this quite famous picture has an interesting story I read in a book about propaganda pictures. It was not taken in June 14, 1940, now was it taken in Paris. It was taken in the Vichy non-occupied zone in november the 11th, 1940.

That 11th november - WW1 Victory Day if you're still following me - the French regiments that had won the Great War and that were going to be dissolved under the provisions of the 1940 Armistice (as France was forbidden to keep a standing army of more than 100,000 soldiers), was parading for what looked like the last time ever.

At that time, the United States were still neutral, and thus US journalists could still travel relatively freely - particularly in Vichy France the US government had granted official recognition to (Free France wasn't seen as the legitimate government), sending Admiral Leahy as the US Ambassador there.

The man you see crying here may be doing so because of the disaster that has befallen France, or because he's seeing his old regiment for what seems to him the last time before it's dissolved. You can see the woman next you him clapping - something that doesn't exactly fit the idea of the terrifying German panzers entering a prostrate city.

The picture could have fallen in the dustbin of history if that hadn't been for the "interventionnist" lobbies who wanted to generate sympathy for occupied Europe and for Britain who now stood alone against Germany. They then used this picture, altering the circumstances a little bit, to express the tragedy of Europe falling under Nazi rule.

Atlantic Friend
07-25-2006, 01:51 PM
By Mussolini? It must have been earlyer. Mussolini's first bet for influence in middle east was zionists. Later he decided to apease arabs, but his anti zionist policies started before the 30es. Anyway, Fascist italy wasn't really antisemitic until they passed racial laws in '38. There were many jewish officials in fascist party. If you are intrested in that, i already recommended a book on the topic, on a different thread. Dan Vittorio Segre's autobiography, "Memoirs of a Fortunate Jew". This book is not some glorified hero story, but a personal and very touchy story, of a young fachist youth jew being forced to emigrate in '39 because racial laws prevented him from going to agricultural school. He joins a kibbutz, then an agricultural school in Israel (where he joins haganah), and then british army where he is taken to intelligence's italian department. Since it is not some glorified history, but a personal story (segre says many times in the book that he is a coward, but writing so personal stuff ina book makes him a hero), and a well written one. But it does touch a lot the early history of IDF. While not palmach, half of it is about jews in british army, who are at the same time smuggling jews from europe into the mandate. Original is in italian, if you read italian.

Thanks, I'll look around to see if I can find this book. I'll also strongly recommend "The Garden of the Finzi Contini", which is about the fate of some Ital;ian Jews under the Fascist regime and then after German troops control half of Italy.

I always had a soft spot for Italy - a country which seems to never have grown any particular taste for the moderns horrors of the 20th century. Part of my family is from Southeastern France, and they rather *****y remember the Italian occupation troops that were stationed there from 1940 to 1942.

Fact is, they did something truly fantastic when they were relieved by Germnan troops in 1942, when Nazi Germany occupied Vichy France. They gathered French Jews that had been living there in the non-occupied zone, and they took them in Italy where they could enjoy some safety. It reminds me of that French officer who was running a detention camp for German citizens in 1940. He balked at the prospect of giving these people, German Communists and opponents, to Nazi authorities , so he organized their evacuation.

Abu_Elvis
07-25-2006, 02:16 PM
Thanks, I'll look around to see if I can find this book. I'll also strongly recommend "The Garden of the Finzi Contini", which is about the fate of some Ital;ian Jews under the Fascist regime and then after German troops control half of Italy. I will keep my eyes open for it. I buy books either on amazon, or in my favourite used bookshop, all 3 floors and half a dozen rooms of it... It is in Jerusalem. I keep titles in my head, and sooner or later I bump into it on the shelf.

I always had a soft spot for Italy - a country which seems to never have grown any particular taste for the moderns horrors of the 20th century. Part of my family is from Southeastern France, and they rather *****y remember the Italian occupation troops that were stationed there from 1940 to 1942. Me too. Specially since I spent a lot of time in Italy, not living, but I must have been there dozens of times. When on subject of Italy, try to find the film Mediteraneo, if you have not seen it. It is a very funny comedy about Italian reserve soldiers stuck on a greek island. It was filmed in early 90es, has beautiful photography (I have seen it first in a cinema, and it was so much better then VHS, widescreen DVD and large TV could do the trick, but I haven't tried), great story and funny jokes.

Fact is, they did something truly fantastic when they were relieved by Germnan troops in 1942, when Nazi Germany occupied Vichy France. They gathered French Jews that had been living there in the non-occupied zone, and they took them in Italy where they could enjoy some safety. It reminds me of that French officer who was running a detention camp for German citizens in 1940. He balked at the prospect of giving these people, German Communists and opponents, to Nazi authorities , so he organized their evacuation. In occupied croatia, slovenia and bosnia, you had it in one country, germans and italians devided it (NDH, or croatian vichyesque, but much more brutal, state that included what is bosnia today) into two occupation zones, and jews would run to italian zone. That trick stoped working when Italy capitulated, but then there were allies in Italy, and it was possible to reach egypt, where allies set up camps for refugees from balkans.

Atlantic Friend
07-26-2006, 01:51 PM
I Me too. Specially since I spent a lot of time in Italy, not living, but I must have been there dozens of times. When on subject of Italy, try to find the film Mediteraneo, if you have not seen it. It is a very funny comedy about Italian reserve soldiers stuck on a greek island. It was filmed in early 90es, has beautiful photography (I have seen it first in a cinema, and it was so much better then VHS, widescreen DVD and large TV could do the trick, but I haven't tried), great story and funny jokes.
In occupied croatia, slovenia and bosnia, you had it in one.

Try to get your hands on "Marsal" (original title), also titled "The Ghost of the Marshall". It's a Croat comedy about how WW2 veterans, prompted into action by the appearance of the ghost of Marshall Tito, try to seize control of a small island in the Adriatic. I stumbled upon that movie two years ago and I still busrst into laughter everytime I describe some of the scenes to my friends.

Sharp
07-26-2006, 02:17 PM
Bof on agirait plutôt selon nos intêrets, qui se trouvaient en Afrique et dans le Moyen-Orient. Je pense pas que le gouvernement français soit si larmoyant des pauvres, pas plus que les USA a mon avis.



D'accord.

Tu te foutrais pas un peu de moi là? :)
y'a autant de raisons pour supporter Israel ou la Palestine.

mais dire que les français "suck" les arabes , peut etre que je me trompe, mais perso je ne pense pas. je te dirai meme que j'attends que ça, histoire qu'on fasse la tournée des banlieues, ca nous fera une bonne excuse.
le gouvernement peut etre, mais pas le peuple qui commence à en avoir ras les c***.

Abrams_MBT
07-26-2006, 04:56 PM
Well, i think that France didn't want to be involved in the recent Irak war simply because they had no economic interests in the area, in opposition to the USA (at least not enough interest to start a war).
If the France currently supports Liban, its simply because France has economics interest and major links with that country and none with Israel....

Make a war or not is simply an economic equation. Let see if French interest are threaten and we will see if they care about poor children dying in the streets... The only thing to do will be to make the population believe that the target is the bad guy and must be stopped at all cost. And that is pretty easy to do...

For exemple, why did the France (and the USA of course) send forces in the 1st Gulf War to "help" the poor invaded Koweit"? And why didn't they do anything in Somalia where thousand of people were dying of starvation?

Only one reason : MONEY.

At least, that is what I think and you may not agree....

Inconnu
07-26-2006, 05:03 PM
Well, it's a parade, not an operational deployment ! In real operations the Tiger can carry HOT, Trigat, and Hellfire missiles, as well as Mistral AA missiles, and rockets.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2259/sanstitre50cm.jpg

No, look.

phoilme
07-26-2006, 05:08 PM
I think France is not going to go running into any conflict where Muslims are a majority. Unless of course it is an actual humanitarian situation. America picks its fights. Somolia was written off - basically "screw them" after the BlackHawk incident. But, we do see Ethiopia stepping up now. Neighbors getting involved.
The middle east however is a bit dicier. The UN was the decision maker. An excuse used by all neighbors. As they proved their ineffectiveness, the US stepped in to protect interests. What does America care about the Central Eastern part of Africa? There's no money in it. Don't take this as a disagreement with what we are doing in the Mid-East, I support it completely and not just to protect our interests. It's just better to take one step at a time. There will always be someone to fight. Seems that someone will be a islamic fundalmentalist.

Switek
07-26-2006, 05:12 PM
France goes where US can't and vice versa... We are on the same (only) boat...:|

kabex
07-26-2006, 06:12 PM
What does America care about the Central Eastern part of Africa? There's no money in it.

Are you sure about this? I read the other day that Somalia could have a sizable amount of oil, but because of the political chaos nobody dares explore there.

If they had a stable government and companies were safe enough to search for oil there... very profitable indeed.

Abrams_MBT
07-26-2006, 06:21 PM
Are you sure about this? I read the other day that Somalia could have a sizable amount of oil, but because of the political chaos nobody dares explore there.

If they had a stable government and companies were safe enough to search for oil there... very profitable indeed.

Irak had a dictatur. However, USA "seized" it.
Somalia may have oil, yes, but not as much as middle east (far less in fact).Why looking for something we are not sure about while we can take what we are aware about? Somalia will be valuable when middle east resources will be out or too expensive to extract.



What does America care about the Central Eastern part of Africa? There's no money in it.
And its the same for the other countries, France, Germany and all wealthy countries included...

B Inman
07-26-2006, 06:22 PM
where are the white flags

I served in UNIFIL with Irishbatt the 70's 80's and 90's the French also served, they are there when you needed them.

vener6
07-27-2006, 05:13 AM
Irak had a dictatur. However, USA "seized" it.
Somalia may have oil, yes, but not as much as middle east (far less in fact).Why looking for something we are not sure about while we can take what we are aware about? Somalia will be valuable when middle east resources will be out or too expensive to extract.



And its the same for the other countries, France, Germany and all wealthy countries included...

Hello,
The fact that Iraq had a dictator is just an excuse! Why? Because if it were right a question of dictatorship and thus to transfer Saddam Hussein who is the dictator, one could have done it since in the first Golf War! You don't believe?

Bye ;)

Abrams_MBT
07-27-2006, 04:50 PM
I meant the main priority is the amount of available oil, not the stability of the local power. And you're right, the fact that Iraq had a dictator was just an excuse...
By the way, what kind of power is established in Iran? Islamic democraty or something like that right?

AROUETLJ
07-27-2006, 07:09 PM
Could we get back to the topic please? Meanwhile, here's a picture of what I had to wade through to get a glimpse of the parade, cleaving my way through a sea of pert T&A.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6505/img0283smallmy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

kabex
07-27-2006, 07:50 PM
Could we get back to the topic please? Meanwhile, here's a picture of what I had to wade through to get a glimpse of the parade, cleaving my way through a sea of pert T&A.



Very nice. I'm still waiting for the photos myself, might as well search for 'em on the web. :P

Greg27
07-29-2006, 03:53 PM
France goes where US can't and vice versa... We are on the same (only) boat...:|


agreed. it's not because france has no boots on the ground that they are not heavily participating on the intelligence level, keeping the back channels open with people who do not want to help the US.

one US congressman ( forgot his name) even went on record on national TV congratulating the french intelligence a few weeks ago. "you'll be surprised to know who some of the strongest allies of the US are, especially in intelligence. the french services... blah blah" i'm not quoting verbatum, but i was pretty shocked to see that on FOX NEWS.

All those who have served/are serving in a-stan elbow to elbow with french troops can testify of the french commitment over there.

G

Greg27
07-29-2006, 03:57 PM
you came to answer the topic for saying just ***** and causing?


sale batard de gros porc.


very mature to insult in a foreign language. that certainly helps a lot the attitude towards french nationals...

G

Greg27
07-29-2006, 04:09 PM
also i wanted to remind a few that the ones who came the closest to nab osama were the french SF. just a few hundred yards from catching him. there have been ush-ush reports that a french soldier actually saw him in the ***** eye in that squirmish.

maybe the white flags gave them up?

BTW i'm french, and i think that's funny. it's called sense of humour. no offense taken and i'm quite sure no offense was meant by this "white flag" joke.


French: Ben Laden Nearly Caught
March 15, 2004

Osama bin Laden narrowly escaped capture by French troops working with American special forces in Afghanistan, perhaps several times, the head of France’s armed forces said Monday.
“Our men were not very far,” Gen. Henri Bentegeat told France’s Europe-1 radio station. “On several occasions, I even think that he slipped out of a net that was well closed.”

The U.S.-led troops surprised enemy fighters in a cave complex in southeastern Afghanistan, prompting a gunbattle in which three militiamen were killed and five others were wounded, the American military said Monday.
The fighting was the first reported by the U.S. military since the March 7 start of a new sweep for insurgents and terror leaders, including bin Laden and Taliban chief Mullah Mohammed Omar.

The gunbattle occurred Saturday morning as dozens of troops, including french and american special forces, searched caves southwest of Qalat, the capital of Zabul province, 240 miles southwest of Kabul, spokesman Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty said.
“We surprised them,” Hilferty said. “I don’t know who started the engagement.”

The military announced a new operation on Saturday called Mountain Storm, a revamp of its efforts to crush militants and capture their leaders aiming to capture bin Laden and others.
Ben Laden is believed to be hiding in the rugged mountains on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Bentegeat said that about 200 French troops are working with American forces in Afghanistan in the hunt for holdouts of the ousted Taliban regime and al Qaeda.

“In Afghanistan, the terrain is extremely favorable to escapes, there are underground networks everywhere,” Bentegeat said.
Bentegeat did not say when or where the escapes took place and a French Defense Ministry spokeswoman declined to give details.

French special forces are determined to capture the fugitive head of the al Qaeda network by the end of the year, Bentegeat said.
“If we catch one head there will be others,” he said. But, “for justice, for the innumerable victims of these monstrous attacks, it is indispensable.”
©MMIV, The Associated Press.

roland
07-29-2006, 06:46 PM
BTW i'm french, and i think that's funny. it's called sense of humour. no offense taken and i'm quite sure no offense was meant by this "white flag" joke.


you're french and you think dishonnor France and insult our fallen is funny ??
nah, give me a break: you're not french.

Me I am and let me tell you: time for reprisals will come and before the end of the century.
For now lets keep with the easy part: destroy tha fatso's credibility :fork:

Greg27
07-29-2006, 07:00 PM
you're french and you think dishonnor France and insult our fallen is funny ??
nah, give me a break: you're not french.

Me I am and let me tell you: time for reprisals will come and before the end of the century.
For now lets keep with the easy part: destroy tha fatso's credibility :fork:


reprisals? against the jokers? and who's the heck is the fatso anyway?

i have personally read, seen and heard thousands and thousands of french jokes, puns, sarcasms about the debacle of 1940. (check out your local video store under french comedies)

So it is okay for us to poke fun at our own dismay but not okay for say americans to do so?
if it was a german making fun of us, i could see where the grey area gets much much thinner considering that many members of my family and probably yours died at the hands of germans.
i still think it's funny when a brit calls me a frog. do you hate british too and will unleash reprisals for agincourt and crecy?

why so much anger roland?

allons allons mon ami, ne nous enervons pas pour si peu de choses.

G

roland
07-29-2006, 07:28 PM
@Greg

self sarcasm Is one thing and I don't remind having ever heard anything about any supposed military cowardness btw.

With the english it's different, that's something between us and it's a two way street.

But I don't remind the Yanks were invited in this game.
Now I don't know where you were those last years. This thread is just a light sample.
The difference is that the yanks believe there own bullsh:t and have the influence power to spread it all over the world. Now you can meet some, say Indu, poodle that feel allowed to insult France while they know absolutely nothing about us.
I think we've been to war for less than that in the past . Now time changed and the US is a little too big nuts to crack, but I think that after we've won the war against terror we'll have to take care of them.
Beside that"s simple prudence, after Wahabism, the US is our biggest threat, they become too irrational with all those religious bigots and I've seen too many "After Iraq, France" stickers personally.

Greg27
07-29-2006, 07:52 PM
i don't think anyone has ever thought about the cowardness of the french soldiers. french soldiers didn't surrender, the politicians did.

thousands and thousands of brave french soldiers didn't even get to fight. my grandfather was in Toulon in the navy, and they coudln't wait to take on the frisés. and next thing you know, him and his comrades were transfered to the infamous GMR against their will. in a matter of weeks, instead of fighting the nazis they were ordered to round up jews FOR the nazis. of course they all deserted and joined the maquis, but still... i don't think anyone is questioning the man in the uniform. most people on this web site are or were soldiers at one point. i think the jokes are misdirected, when in fact it should be directed to the politicians and officers who were still living in 1860. it's not fun to be at the end of a joke, ask how belgians feel about our jokes...

is the joke getting old? yes it is. but what are we going to do about it? you see "after iraq, france" stickers, and they see french and british flags being burned on the place de la republique by 14 years old idiots, mcdonalds being sacked everytime it rains on the champs elysées...

for the yanks being invited in this game, i think that the thousands and thousands of little white crosses covering up normandy grassy knolls, pretty much invite them to any party they deem appropriate until the end of time...

we love americans and americans love us, we're just too stupid and stubborn to let it show. i love germans too, but don't tell my grandma...

don't mistake americans with american policies. grave mistake.

Greg

Greg27
07-29-2006, 08:20 PM
just to complete my thought, i feel it is my duty as a frenchman to educate a lot of people who have misconceptions or clichés severly burried in their skulls. not their faults, blame it on society i guess (and CNN).

i started 3 threads today about french troops, SF and other related issues. Most of my american friends don't even know there are french troops in afghanistan DYING today to fight terrorism (see funeral picture of sapeur 17 RGP). most of them had no idea france was part of the first golf war in 91...

we'll have to change their minds one at a time, that's all we can do roland. either that or get mad...

sincerely,

Greg

roland
07-30-2006, 03:19 AM
@Greg

thanks for your patience: I must confess that when I wrote my post it was late and was a little drunk and reading it this morning it shows :lol:
Now it's True I still love the US, and not only because it's the second country of my family and I've been briefed about our blood debt since I'm 14. but I still would like if they pay for the afront some way.
Now good luck explaining over and over again.
cheers.

Notlim
07-30-2006, 07:11 AM
quote
"Nice pics man.......what's the story with the brearded fellows bearing axes? There has to be a cool story behind them dudes....."

i believe they are either french Engineers/Sappeurs/Pioniers, tradition has that they must let they beards long as a sign of dedication to their trade

kovy
07-30-2006, 07:20 AM
So it is okay for us to poke fun at our own dismay but not okay for say americans to do so?

All those white flags jokes and french defeats listings appeared in late 2002.

There is a difference between jokes and propaganda. The wide campaign of french bashing all over the inernet and the US media which started right before the irak invasion in 2003 was planned and organize by the US services. There is no question about that. It's purpose was to discredit the french anti-war position among the american public opinion. In a word, It was part of the war propaganda campaign of the USA (like the fake WMD sites pictures shown to the UN or the bogus story of french missiles sold to Irak in 2002)

mas-36
07-30-2006, 08:07 AM
All those white flags jokes and french defeats listings appeared in late 2002.

There is a difference between jokes and propaganda. The wide campaign of french bashing all over the inernet and the US media which started right before the irak invasion in 2003 was planned and organize by the US services. There is no question about that. It's purpose was to discredit the french anti-war position among the american public opinion. In a word, It was part of the war propaganda campaign of the USA (like the fake WMD sites pictures shown to the UN or the bogus story of french missiles sold to Irak in 2002)

"planned and organized by US services" !?!? This is the first time I've heard (or read) such a thing. I'm interested in this, if it is true. Could you please provide any evidence towards this, or link? Thanks!

roland
07-30-2006, 05:27 PM
"planned and organized by US services" !?!? This is the first time I've heard (or read) such a thing. I'm interested in this, if it is true. Could you please provide any evidence towards this, or link? Thanks!

here we go:


1. September 1-15, 2002: In its "Week in Review" section, The New York Times published an article entitled "Psst? Can I Get a Bomb Trigger?" alleging that in 1998, France and Germany had supplied Iraq with high-precision switches used in detonating nuclear weapons.

LIE

2. On November 5, 2002, the front page of The Washington Post carried a story entitled "Four Nations Thought to Possess Smallpox." According to this article, France, along with Russia, Iraq and North Korea, possesses prohibited human smallpox strains. This "information" was purportedly given to the Washington Post by an "American intelligence source," who mentioned the existence of a "report" on this subject.

LIE

3. On March 7, 2003, Washington Times reporter Bill Gertz asserted that two French companies had sold Iraq spare parts for airplanes and helicopters. The article referred to "a U.S. intelligence source."

LIE

4. On March 13, 2003, New York Times columnist William Safire began a series of articles entitled "The French Connection" in which he claimed that France had permitted the delivery of sensitive equipment to Iraq. According to him, a French intermediary had facilitated Iraq's acquisition, through Syria, of chemical components for long-range surface-to-surface missiles. Safire asserted in the same article that "he had been told" that the Soci?t? Nationale des Poudres et Explosifs had signed a contract in April 2002 to provide Iraq with five tons of dimethyl hydrazine, a chemical that can be used for missile propulsion.

LIE

5. On April 2 2003 on MSNBC, Joe Scarborough accused France of selling Iraq "planes, missiles, armored vehicles, radar equipment and spare parts for Iraqi fighter planes," and of offering to sell nuclear reactors, without mentioning specific dates.

May 15 & 16
France accuses the United
States of a smear campaign,
using this as one example.
White House Press Brief:
Q Going back to France, the French have denied selling arms to Iraq
and issuing passports to Syria to fleeing Iraqi officials. Are those
charges valid?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, I think that those are questions you can
address to France.
Q On that point, Scott, do you have any information that the French
did, in fact, issue passports to people so that --
MR. McCLELLAN: I think -- no, I think that's a question you need to
address to France.
Q Well, no, it's information the U.S. claims to have.
MR. McCLELLAN: I don't have anything for you.

When Rumsfeld was questioned, he followed pattern. When something is on the
street that is part of the strategic influence campaign, let it linger. He said when asked
about the reports, “I have nothing to add to them.” Clearly, the implication of that kind
of answer is that he wanted people to believe the stories. He had nothing to add.
Even the White House got into this strategic influence effort. One has to believe
the Administration knew by mid-May that the stories were not true, but at the White
House press briefing, it was not stopped.

LIAR

6. On April 21, 2003, Newsweek reported the "possible" discovery of Roland 2 missiles by coalition forces in Iraq and implied that they had been manufactured in 2002. A charred Roland 3 missile launcher was also allegedly found.

LIE

7. On May 6, 2003, The Washington Times once again attacked our country, indicating that according to an "anonymous American intelligence source," France had helped wanted Iraqi leaders to escape to Europe by providing them with French passports.
This story had some legs, and the Washington Times kept getting fed information to keep it alive.

LIARS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

We all know the famous and infamous "the military history of France"

The so-called Complete Military History of France seems to have been first written by the bloggers from "Silflay Hraka" on 19th January 2003. Silflay Hraka is a North Carolina Site run by a trio with nicknames like Bigwig, Kehaar and Woundwort. Two of these bloggers seem to be tech/support staff at a local NC newspaper and UNC, the third is a professor at a local christian university in Elon North Carolina.

The appearance of this document on usenet did not happen until a Florida teacher, once a former US army officer, posted an abridged document on a website on February 6th 2003. The post was then copied and forwarded by someone named Rinaldi at Michigan University to seattle.politics. In the next number of days, the document was cross posted to hundreds of other usenet groups. Since then the document has been copied to hundreds of blogs.

The question none has bothered to ask, is where did this document really come from?

All of these bloggers reside in an area that is a short drive away from Fort Bragg, home of the 4th Psychological Unit, but that is probably only a coincidence...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Punishing the French:
Assessment
• Technique made effective use of the concept of “echo.”
– Less than professional journalism repeated in 100’s of
newspapers and on television reporting on the story as a
story.
– Washington Times repeated the story with small bits of
information so it lingered.
• Seems most likely that this was part of the strategic
influence campaign that can be traced at least
circumstantially to the Special Plans Office in the Pentagon.
Most of the leaks during the “armed
conflict” that appeared in the Washington Times came from the Special Plans Office in
the Pentagon. It appears as if the French were a target.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BILL GERTZ
http://www.miquelon.org/mediapol/journ/Gertz-Bill.jpg
Bill Gertz is not a France-Basher, his speciality however is spreading misinformation about the French Government in the Washington Times. Here are few headlines from Gertz's columns over the last few months :

* Iraq strengthens air force with French parts
* France helped Iraqis escape
* French firm probed in move of pumps to Iran

The extent of the misinformation was such that Bill Gertz was singled out by the French Ambassador in his letter to Administration Officials and Media Reprensentatives on May 15, 2003. For more information please read the letter by Jean-David Levitte.

"The allegations of Bill Gertz in The Washington Times, for example, were never reprinted in more prestigious and more relatively scrupulous newspapers such as The New York Times, The Washington Post or The Financial Times—for the probable reason that basic journalistic checking demonstrated that the charges had little substance. Bill Gertz, reputedly well connected with intelligence circles, has a pattern of publishing sensational leaks, some of which turn out to be true, many others of which, to put it delicately, do not. Another sign of lack of credibility can be found in the logical weakness of the articles in question." - Justin Vaisse


"planned and organized by US services" !?!? This is the first time I've heard (or read) such a thing. I'm interested in this, if it is true. Could you please provide any evidence towards this, or link? Thanks!

hypocrit

EDIT: I realize your name: "mas 36". Well I'm affraid I treat you hypocrit a little too fast. But it's so obvious those insults and lies are concerted I don't understand you look surprised.

Greg27
07-30-2006, 05:41 PM
@Greg

thanks for your patience: I must confess that when I wrote my post it was late and was a little drunk and reading it this morning it shows :lol:
Now it's True I still love the US, and not only because it's the second country of my family and I've been briefed about our blood debt since I'm 14. but I still would like if they pay for the afront some way.
Now good luck explaining over and over again.
cheers.

hey man i just wanted to make sure that you know i'm not mad at you in any way or shape. i agree with you, and i welcome any constructive argument with a smart drunk over a sober idiot any day :)

i will tell you also that i have already gotten a dozen thanks and welcome messages from people who saw the threads on french troops in a-stan or on 1 RPIMA.
if 5 minutes of my time has helped me changed 1 person's mind about french troops then it's a clear and effortless victory. 1 down, 365 millions to go.

later,
G

mas-36
07-30-2006, 09:35 PM
EDIT: I realize your name: "mas 36". Well I'm affraid I treat you hypocrit a little too fast. But it's so obvious those insults and lies are concerted I don't understand you look surprised.

roland, thank you kindly for all of the information!woot I just wanted you to know that I'm probably one of the biggest Francophiles on my side of the Atlantic, and I despise French-bashers. When I saw kovy's post and he/she mentioned "US services", I thought the US military. I see a lot of French-hating on many militry blogs. IMO, French-bashing is very intellectually dishonest given what we now know today. The information you've given me helps prove it. Merci!

p.s. - my "name" mas 36, is because I own one. Fun thing to shoot, and very strong and accurate too! I wish I had a picture of one to make my avatar.

Greg27
07-30-2006, 09:50 PM
enjoy mon ami

Olybrius
08-01-2006, 03:04 AM
"planned and organized by US services" !?!? This is the first time I've heard (or read) such a thing. I'm interested in this, if it is true. Could you please provide any evidence towards this, or link? Thanks!

http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/fellows/vaisse20030701.htm

Atlantic Friend
08-01-2006, 05:04 PM
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2259/sanstitre50cm.jpg

No, look.

Hey, you're right ! Maybe the Rafales performed CAP over Paris for the event ? I wish some Armee de l'Air guy could tell us the whole story of the lone missile...

AROUETLJ
08-01-2006, 05:21 PM
Hey, you're right ! Maybe the Rafales performed CAP over Paris for the event ? I wish some Armee de l'Air guy could tell us the whole story of the lone missile...

You never know when you might need that missile. You know what happened in Les Chevaliers du Ciel don't you....