Video 2ème REP in Ivory Coast 2002-2003

[Pégase]

some real fighting scenes in it, like a destruction of vehicules by ERC 90 Sagaie, recon by Atlantique II and SA 342 Gazelle, and legionnaires under fire, followed by infantry fight :


http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Cote_Ivoire_%202002-2003.wmv

[mustamato]

Excellent video. Very interesting to see. Thanks! (Or well, haven´t seen the
whole one yet, but seems very promising :) )

[Herrmannek]

Wery nice video...Anyone care to explain the part involving shooting?

[tooms]

Wery nice video...Anyone care to explain the part involving shooting?



People heard shots in a zone controled by the french.
they were about 3 rebels cars which tried to go through a french checkpoint .

they have been detected by an Atlantic 2 plane. They called for reenforcement ( 1 Sagaie, one VAB, a P4 jeep , edit: no VAB) to support a Sagaie. edit: sagaie and 1 vbl

They shot to warn them. The rebels were surely drunks or junkies, they continued to advance. The Sagaie shot 2 or 3 three times to destroy them.

you saw what happened next.

[Herrmannek]

THanks...

[anonymous individual]

The fighting looks very reflexing for the French. One guy (I think it is the office) shows no sign of fear. Maybe he is just well trained or experineced.

[tooms]

The fighting looks very reflexing for the French. One guy (I think it is the office) shows no sign of fear. Maybe he is just well trained or experineced.

it was the first time for him so he is well trained :lol: . He said later, he wasn't thinking about be wounded or killed at the moment, but he realized after.

[ZedroS]

Very nice ! I want some more !

[mustamato]

ERC 90 by the way, nice motha:

http://www.chars-francais.net/images/archives/erc90/erc90_004.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/erc90_cat2g.jpg

http://www.cdes.terre.defense.gouv.fr/sitefr/Materiels/CC/v/sagaie.asf (video, 19 seconds).


principal armament 1 gun of 90 mm to semi-automatic operation
20 ammunition of 90 mm out of turrets out
distances practical shooting: 1800 m

secondary armament 1 machine-gun of 7.62 mm twinned
with the gun 2000 cartridges of 7.62 mm
4 smoke-producing cannister launchers

Crew the ERC 90 requires a crew of 3 men: a head of machine, a gunner, a pilot
masses 8100 kg
Engine 6 Cylinders out of V with 90° with electronic ignition, two carburettors and water cooling power 135 CH. to 5250 rpm
speed average on road: 60 km/h
average on road: 100 km/h
water: 7.2 km/h

consumption on road: 24 l/100 in varied ground: 17 l/h
autonomy 730 km or 15 hours for 250 gasoline

[ZedroS]

It look strange but seems quite efficient, isn't it?

[Uncle Chô]

some real fighting scenes in it, like a destruction of vehicules by ERC 90 Sagaie, recon by Atlantique II and SA 342 Gazelle, and legionnaires under fire, followed by infantry fight :

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Cote_Ivoire_%202002-2003.wmv

Total length : 17 minutes but 34 Mo to download ;)

woot Worth the wait. Very interesting indeed !

[tooms]

Sagaies do well in Africa in low intensity conflicts.


but it will upgraded to shoOt the night, engine will replaced by a diesel etc because it is pretty old.

[ZedroS]

Would it stand a RPG ?

What can be destroyed with a 90mm ?

[mustamato]

Would it stand a RPG ?

What can be destroyed with a 90mm ?

I don´t think the crew would feel so good if it was hit by a RPG. And I can
imagine that it´s not intended to engage MBT´s, rather BMP´s, gun enplacements,
bunkers, houses etc. In other words, kind of a infantry supporting gun.

[tooms]

Would it stand a RPG ?

What can be destroyed with a 90mm ?

I don´t think the crew would feel so good if it was hit by a RPG. And I can
imagine that it´s not intended to engage MBT´s, rather BMP´s, gun enplacements,
bunkers, houses etc. In other words, kind of a infantry supporting gun.

exactly ;)

Maybe Fantassin will read this tread and tell us more :)

[RuSoKaR]

Is it just me there is no sound in that video?

[mustamato]

Is it just me there is no sound in that video?

There is sound, you probably just miss a codec, install Media Player Classic,
which can be found on the link (best damn media player available, can take
almost everything you throw at it, Quicktime, RealPlayer etc), also install the
K-Lite codec pack in the page. And then you´ll be fine:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/

[Uncle Chô]

I spoke last November with some crews that were deployed in Ivory Coast. With dedicated ammo, they told me they could match a T-55.

But the Sagaie mainly relies on speed (90 km/h) and ease of manoeuvrer. It is air deployable. A big plus for low intensity conflicts like in Africa. The armor is very thin (schrapnels protected only) and could be hit easely with a RPG. In Sarajevo, some (1 or 2) have been destroyed in urban environment. That is why you see in the video they made some embarkement to protect the hull. They use their 90 mm fire power to stay out of range of grunts. The Sagaie is currently in the process of being upgraded with a more powerful diesel engine, night vision optics and some add up armor.

[fantassin]

There has been some cases in Sarajevo when ERC 90s firing APFSDS 90 mm rounds destroyed T55s and M36s that were shelling French positions in and around the town in 1995.

The 90 mm F4 cannon of the ERC90 with its APFSDS rounds is perfect match for T55s; even the old, shorter 90 mm cannon used on the AML 90 (Eland for the South African version) destroyed T55s in Angola.

OK, it was close range (max effective range of the AML 90 is 900 m) bush fighting but they still destroyed those Cubans T55s.

The protection of the ERC90 isn't enough against RPG7.

A VAB from the 2°REP was hit by an RPG7 in Ivory Coast; it went trough the driver's door, through his arm (he was amputated) and exploded inside, wounding the MG gunner who was standing with his torso out at that time. But still, the VAB is quite well protected against mines and rockets.

[Pégase]

if u have problems with videos codecs, my advice is just use ffdshow (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow/) instead of any codec packs, it solves all the problems, and it will avoid you some incompatibility codecs mess later ...


for the ERC 90, it is old stuff and regarded as nothing more than armored car :lol:

nevertheless, this light wheeled vehicules do a pretty good job in this part of Africa, it is well fitted for this ground and have prooved enough to deal with its low threats environment, pick-ups, light AFVs, etc...
it is rustic and so specially quick and easy to keeping it up, and it is C-160 transportable



twelve rebels have been reported killed in the skirmish on the video the day later, they are in the habit of carrying their deads and the wounded with them rapidly :|

[ZedroS]

By the way, what about VAB and others VBL against RPG7 ?

I'm afraid they won't stand it...

And what for an Humvee ? Is it safer ?

[Jehuty]

Wow great video.

Question for Fantassin: how many French are simple soldiers in French foreign legion?
I know that they can enlist if they say they are swiss or quebecan and many of them speak French without accent in the video.

[tooms]

By the way, what about VAB and others VBL against RPG7 ?

I'm afraid they won't stand it...

And what for an Humvee ? Is it safer ?

For the VAB, fantassin said : A VAB from the 2°REP was hit by an RPG7 in Ivory Coast; it went trough the driver's door, through his arm (he was amputated) and exploded inside, wounding the MG gunner who was standing with his torso out at that time. But still, the VAB is quite well protected against mines and rockets.

The VBL wont stand it .

The Humvee is not safer, it's less armoured than a VBL.

[Pégase]

By the way, what about VAB and others VBL against RPG7 ?

I'm afraid they won't stand it...

And what for an Humvee ? Is it safer ?

between mobility and armor up to a point, you have to choose

mobility can also be a protection

[Guttorm]

Wow great video.

Question for Fantassin: how many French are simple soldiers in French foreign legion?
I know that they can enlist if they say they are swiss or quebecan and many of them speak French without accent in the video.

As far as I know, alto of the officers are from the regular army.
And yes, alot of french people join the legion as swiss or quebecan.

GREAT VIDEO!
Now I just wish I knew more french... All I understod was that he said something about the French Navy at some time. :) :oops:

[mustamato]

When they start to shoot, someone that can translate what they say in the
radio communcation there? (When he says something with stop-stop), would
be interesting to know.

[Aegirsson]

on radio:
Captain"shots heard at geby"
eagle20"our dispositif is in place, in measure to control road, not in measure to control a "on foot" debordement"
Captain"ok i'll be on your position in 30 minutes"

in jeep:
Captain"eagle 20 i'm coming to your position, i repeat: indentification, somation, destruction".

on place:
Lieutnant"captain my actual dispositif is here, they hear kalashnikov shots on right, they might try to attack".

marine plane informing:
"convoy going to delkoue"
captain"received"
"2 pick ups coming to us"
captain"eagle20 watchout for civilians, you destroy before or after civilians but not on same level. Repeat sommation fire. Fire".
captain"confirm destroyed vehicule"
eagle20"yes correct, debarcated personal taking the munitions in the car"

etc...

[Jehuty]

When they start to shoot, someone that can translate what they say in the
radio communcation there? (When he says something with stop-stop), would
be interesting to know.

Officer-"Eagle twenty, watch for civilians, you destroy before or after the civilians, but not at the same level"

A soldier talking to civilians -"Clear the road!! On the side!!!Here ,here, here!!"

*firng"

Officer-"Repeat somation shoot" (?)

*firing*

Officer-"Fire"

*tank fire*

Officer-"You confirm Vehicle destroyed correct?"

Tankist-"Correct, the crew disembarked to get back ammunitions"

Officer-"Roger stop-stop and continuation of observation"

Sometihng like that.

[ZedroS]

By the way, on this URL : http://www.2eme-regiment-etranger-de-parachutistes.com/videoteque.htm a lot of other video of French Legion. I have been through a few of them (the one called Les GCP lasts 53minutes !).

It's rather some presentation of the Legion and high light of some specific point. I have learnt through this that 65% of the soldiers in the Legion are from foreign countries. Nowadays, east Europ seems to be the main source of supply, but there are also some english speaking guys (a Scot for example).

It seems that they don't need to know before entering the Legion, they learn on the way ! However, the selection is really tough : 1 out 9 is selected (on a official french Assembly Report I had read 1 out 6 however).

What has impressed me the most is the philisophy of the Legion : Honnour and Fidelity. It applies to France, the Legion and the mission. If the soldiers dies for the mission, no trouble. The Legion has offered them a new life, so it's ok. For example, they do a party each year for the Camerone battle, where 64 Legionnaires died in a battle again 4000 Brasilians. They say that the last 5 men decided to charge before dying. For them, it's the best example of the Legion "way of mind". Quite impressive, if not shocking !

[ZedroS]

Just another point which surprised me (and is well shown of the video starting this thread) : the officers have to lead their men in combat, that means the officers have to be in the fight, leading the troops. They said it's the only for the soldiers to follow everywhere their officer. Even during training (for example in French Guyana), the leader and officer of the group takes part at everything and must lead and open the path.

What do you say of that ?

[gilgoul]

The fighting looks very reflexing for the French. One guy (I think it is the office) shows no sign of fear. Maybe he is just well trained or experineced.

He was a virgin before

[mustamato]

Just another point which surprised me (and is well shown of the video starting this thread) : the officers have to lead their men in combat, that means the officers have to be in the fight, leading the troops. They said it's the only for the soldiers to follow everywhere their officer. Even during training (for example in French Guyana), the leader and officer of the group takes part at everything and must lead and open the path.

What do you say of that ?

The Germans did the same thing during ww2, it worked perfectly in the Blitzkrieg
but was not good at all with the German soldiers in Finland fighting mostly Siberian
troops guarding the Murmansk railroad. Up north the terrain is very dense and there
can basically be a platoon in the next bush, and the German soldiers didn´t do
much on their own initiative, as fire his rifle for example. The commander had to
give an order first, and often these orders were long and complicated. While in
example Finnish soldiers always have been thought that it´s ok to fire the rifle without
have been given an order to do so if it´s for the security of the whole unit. In
other words each soldier is trusted to have enough judgement and intelligence
to use that wisely.

In the north, the Germans in Finland (20th Mountain Army) became better in that
in the late phase of the war, squad leaders became more independent and didn´t
have to get orders from his platoon commander that had to get orders from the
company commander that had to get orders from the batallion commander etc,
within a certain frame of course.

But I assume that the French legionairs are well trained professionals, and are
capable of adapting to each situation. In this case the distance to the rebels
were quite long, so I don´t see anything wrong with that the action was led by
the superior commander on the place.

[gilgoul]

By the way, what about VAB and others VBL against RPG7 ?

I'm afraid they won't stand it...

And what for an Humvee ? Is it safer ?

between mobility and armor up to a point, you have to choose

mobility can also be a protection

About the VBL, we tried something when we got them (1994), taking a door appart (after it was damaged in a road accident), and test shooting it at 300m, then 200 then 50 and finally 25m, with a 5.56mm and a 7.5mm (still had AA52 at the time)
the 7.5mm went thru from 200m, the 5.56 went thru at 50 m.
then, it`s not valid scientificaly, but just to get an Idea of what to expect.

About the Hummer, people who used the hummer armoured tend to trust it for most of the situation.
Of course, RPG s and even LAW s always get in.

[fantassin]

Between 40 and 50% (depends on international events mostly) of Legionnaires are from France.

For the officers, about 10% are former Légionnaires. They are called "officier à titre étranger" or "TE"; they become officer rising through the ranks, like the "mustangs" in the USMC and are very well respected.

One was almost legendary; a German, he joined as a Légionnaire at the end of the war in Algeria and left as a Lieutenant-colonel two years ago.

Spent the first 25 years or so in the 2°REP, mostly as a heavy mortar man. Altogether, he was in the Légion for 37 years...

Everybody in the Légion knows him as "Hans".

[Mirage]

some real fighting scenes in it, like a destruction of vehicules by ERC 90 Sagaie, recon by Atlantique II and SA 342 Gazelle, and legionnaires under fire, followed by infantry fight :


http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Cote_Ivoire_%202002-2003.wmv

Here some infos with photos on this little fight... sorry it's in french but very interesting :| :)

http://www.toolnewz.com/KepiBlanc/juin2003/page01.html

[Pégase]

thx for the link, now I agree this is a little fight compared to the attack of the 6th January

around 65 rebels doing a coordinated attack, a dozen with RPG 7, now THAT must have been a hella wake up !!! :|

[SiFiOn]

Those Legionaires behave really strange when fired upon... They don't seam to realize that they can actually die in that moment (just as the officer tells later to the reporter). Weird but very funny to watch.

[mustamato]

thx for the link, now I agree this is a little fight compared to the attack of the 6th January

around 65 rebels doing a coordinated attack, a dozen with RPG 7, now THAT must have been a hella wake up !!! :|

What was the outcome of that fight?

[tooms]

thx for the link, now I agree this is a little fight compared to the attack of the 6th January

around 65 rebels doing a coordinated attack, a dozen with RPG 7, now THAT must have been a hella wake up !!! :|

What was the outcome of that fight?

french side: 9 wounded ( 1 seriously )

rebel side: about 50 dead

they also captured some weapons
http://www.toolnewz.com/KepiBlanc/juin2003/pic14.jpg

the fights started at 9:15 am and finished after 1:00 pm

[fantassin]

If it hadn't been for the frag jackets, 7 légionnaires would very probably have been killed.

[Pégase]

some legionnaire have been under mortar fire during this fight, and rebels were playing with the dense vegetation

I imagine it must be impressive when it "pop-up" like that

[ZedroS]

It's not some pics, it's not a video, but it's coming straight from Ivory Coast :

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/koriwenn/datas/videos/Korhogo-22-01-04.wma

Enjoy !

[littlefrench]

I recently have read a book about August von Kageneck about the East Front in the ww2 and I can say that germans were very good soldiers.

But it's true that the Legionnaires are excellents soldiers, who are very professional and are ready to die whitout a problem (my greatfather has known a few Legionnaires during the Algerian war).

[ZedroS]

I love your "the Legionnaires (...) are ready to die whitout a problem " LOL

[Pégase]

By the way, what about VAB and others VBL against RPG7 ?

I'm afraid they won't stand it...

And what for an Humvee ? Is it safer ?

a part of the VAB park has been renovated, the VAB NG have got enhanced armour :
http://www.imageshack.us/img2/5444/937.jpg

http://www.chars-francais.net/images/archives/vab_vtt/vab-surblinde_22.jpg

this would protect against up to 14.5 mm AP
I guess it won't be enough against PG-7VR though ...

[OldRecon]

When they start to shoot, someone that can translate what they say in the
radio communcation there? (When he says something with stop-stop), would
be interesting to know.

Cease fire, Cease fire, continue observation of target!

[OldRecon]

Remember that the VAB's used by NORBATT needed 5 min warm-up from cold start + not even comparable to an M-113 with regards to off road mobility, and thus were unsuitable for rapid-response team ops.
On the other hand worked ok for Convoy escort with good speed (100+ km/h) and excellent suspension (hydro pneum?). Remember once driving over speedbumps and through an SLA VCP at 90 km/h, but beside some bang-noise it was hard to tell that we weren't exactly driving over a flat piece of tarmac :D.
The vehicle also had an interesting gear mechanism. Rather than full automatic gear or manual gearing with clutch pedal, you tilted the knob on the gear leaver and waited for a clanking noise before shifting gear manualy.

As for legion video links:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Cote_Ivoire_%202002-2003.wmv
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Sarajevo%201993.wmv
http://geert.stools.net/gcp.wmv
http://geert.stools.net/La_Legion.wmv
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/iile.wmv
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/14_juillet.wmv
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Camerone.wmv
http://geert.stools.net/Suez_1956.wmv
http://www.2eme-regiment-etranger-de-parachutistes.com/kolwezi/Kolwezi%201978.wmv
http://www.2eme-regiment-etranger-de-parachutistes.com/beyrout/Beyrouth_1982.wmv
http://geert.stools.net/Dien_Bien_Phu_video_3.wmv
http://geert.stools.net/Dien_Bien_Phu_video_2.wmv
http://geert.stools.net/Dien_Bien_Phu.wmv
http://www.2eme-regiment-etranger-de-parachutistes.com/st_marc/Helie_de_St_Marc.wmv

[TheJim]

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Cote_Ivoire_%202002-2003.wmv

The video appears to be down. Anyone know where else it can be found? I've just done a mad search and came up with nothing.

[mustamato]

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Cote_Ivoire_%202002-2003.wmv

The video appears to be down. Anyone know where else it can be found? I've just done a mad search and came up with nothing.

"L'accès aux Pages Perso de cet utilisateur a été momentanément suspendu par Wanadoo."

Probably just ran out of bandwidth due to heavy downloading, try again later.

[TheJim]

"L'accès aux Pages Perso de cet utilisateur a été momentanément suspendu par Wanadoo."

Probably just ran out of bandwidth due to heavy downloading, try again later.

Ah, will do. Cheers.

[Pégase]

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/14-juillet-2003/Cote_Ivoire_%202002-2003.wmv

The video appears to be down. Anyone know where else it can be found? I've just done a mad search and came up with nothing.

you can find here too :
http://www.legion-etrangere.info/site/video.php (don't do right clic on the site btw :lol: )

[OldRecon]

Another Legion video (great stuff on this site indeed, despite some low quality with regards to sharpness of picture in this vid)

http://geert.stools.net/Legionnaires_celebres.wmv

[Pégase]

btw the site with the videos has changed

it isn't from 2eme-regiment-etranger-de-parachutistes.com anymore, but :
http://www.2eme-rep-more-majorum.com