LATEST NEWS - Israel/Lebanon (Graphic Images)

[Pille1234]

Looking at the damage (below the waterline) it was a small missile not C.802. A ship of this size wouldn't survive such a hit. Also the platform to fire C.802 is huge and would be easily identified by IAF recce.

That isn't damage, that is diesel exhaust and very common on ships.

Look at that video (lower one)
http://www.hnn.co.il/index.php?module=albums;task=view;id=892

you can see very little damage at the hangar, but the port side is not shown (intentionally?). So certainly it wasn't a full scale anti ship missile.

[daily666]

I think you are just watching an exhost-outlet here, not a missile impact.


Yeah, I think you're right. So we don't have any pics or really, any idea what hit that vessel?

[Tamir]

Looking at the damage (below the waterline) it was a small missile not C.802. A ship of this size wouldn't survive such a hit. Also the platform to fire C.802 is huge and would be easily identified by IAF recce. That's not damge, it's exhaust marks.

p.s. didn't notice it's mentioned already..

[saigonsmuggler]

I think you are just watching an exhost-outlet here, not a missile impact.
I think this is only a filed clip of the ship and not the actual homeward trip this time around. You can see the helicopter on the pad. According to the reports I have read, that was the impact area. Did not see any damage in that area at all from the clip.

They said ship was on fire - did not see any fire damage.

[He219]

Nice video.

Looking at the damage (below the waterline) it was a small missile not C.802. A ship of this size wouldn't survive such a hit. Also the platform to fire C.802 is huge and would be easily identified by IAF recce.
That's not the damage. The C 802 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/c-802.htm) can be mounted on a truck.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo01.photo.default-512x343.jpg
A rocket hovers in the skies above Beirut before hitting an Israeli warship off the coast of the Lebanese capital. At least one Israeli sailor was killed and three were missing after Hezbollah struck the warship in a dramatic show of the Shiite guerrilla group's military capabilities.(AFP/Joseph Barrak)
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo00.photo.default-512x322.jpg
Flames light up the night sky as a Hezbollah missile hits an Israeli warship off the coast of Beirut. At least one Israeli sailor was killed and three were missing after Hezbollah struck the warship in a dramatic show of the Shiite guerrilla group's military capabilities.(AFP/Joseph Barrak)

[daily666]

That isn't damage, that is diesel exhaust and very common on ships.

Look at that video (lower one)
http://www.hnn.co.il/index.php?module=albums;task=view;id=892

you can see very little damage at the hangar, but the port side is not shown (intentionally?). So certainly it wasn't a full scale anti ship missile.


Thanks for that, it's really difficult to see the damage. Is that a helicopter on the deck? I read some Israeli sources and they all say it was an C.802 Iranian build missile. It's really hard to believe. Or it really was an C.802 but the hit was not critical

Very nice ship by the way.

[perdurabo]

maybe it wasn't direct hit? maybe it exploded near hit by phalanx?

[daily666]

Nice video.


That's not the damage. The C 802 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/c-802.htm) can be mounted on a truck.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo01.photo.default-512x343.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo00.photo.default-512x322.jpg


He, do you really believe that was an actual hit? So close to the shore?

[One]

I guess you none of you want to hear what the IDF has said. LIke that guy that posted yesterday that it was AA fire even though the IDF said it was misisle.

[Tamir]

I posted what I heard from someone reliable... ("afaik" was mentioned as well)

[nagant_m44]

That c802 looks like a copy of the harpoon...

[tanks_alot]

I guess you none of you want to hear what the IDF has said. LIke that guy that posted yesterday that it was AA fire even though the IDF said it was misisle.

IDF says it was a missile.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3276221,00.html

[alexz]

The automatic anti missile system on board was TURNED OFF.
The reason was that they were affraid to hit IAI planes in the area
and that they did not expect the hezzbullah to have anti ship missiles.

[He219]

He, do you really believe that was an actual hit? So close to the shore?
Yeah, you got a point there ... I Just reposted that media-caption.

The second image could have the wrong caption though.
It may well turn out to be images of the launch only, out of sequence.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo00.photo.default-512x322.jpglaunch?
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo01.photo.default-512x343.jpgin flight?
The missile scales about right though ...


'Still waiting to see images of the damage.

[-=P=-]

That report talks about 50kg explosives so it was definatly no C.802.

btw. here is a picture of how a C.802 launcher would look like

http://sinodefence.com/navy/navalmissile/yj84lg.jpg

The Iranian variant is very similar.

[Greek soldier]

Athens News Agency - From Wednesday till today 100 people had been killed and 266 wounded, according to Lebanese Police authorities.

Also, an Egyptian cargo ship was hit while it was in the middle of the fight between the Israeli Navy and Hizballah. All 12 crewmembers are fine.

[daily666]

IDF says it was a missile.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3276221,00.html


The initial investigation revealed that at 8:45 p.m. crewmembers on board the vessel were preparing for Shabbat dinner when a loud blat was heard. One of the ship’s commanders has informed the Navy’s control command: “We’ve been hit.” In the first few minutes after the strike, it was unclear what hit the boat, and the sailors concentrated on extinguishing the fire that broke out at the landing pad after 50 kilograms of explosives penetrated the vessel’s body.

Haaretz:
Four Israel Navy sailors were reported missing after an Iran-manufactured C-802 missile hit the ship. Initially, the army was not certain whether a missile or explosives-laden drone hit the vessel on Friday night.

How on earth it was C-802 if in the ynetnews they say 50kg of explosives while C-802 has an 165kg warhead. I think the media spread a lot of bulls*it. As usuall.

[He219]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/notgonnadothismuchlonger/more/more/more/30707879.jpg
** FILE ** A British Royal Air Force Harrier GR7 is launched from the deck of HMS Illustrious at an undisclosed location, in this March 9, 1997, Royal Navy hand out file photo. The Ministry of Defence said Saturday evening, July 15, 2006 that two British ships, HMS Illustrious and HMS Bulwark, are to be sent to the Middle East as part of the planning to deal with the situation in Lebanon. (AP Photo/Royal Navy)
To deal with the situation, how?

They'd better steer clear of those anti-ship missiles ....
;)

[Greek soldier]

Hey, the HMS Illustrious was stationed this week in the Port of Pireaus! :)

[welshmann]

over 10,000 brits in leb:.....


Royal Navy sails to crisis area
Two British ships are being dispatched to the Middle East amid planning for a possible evacuation of British nationals from Lebanon.

The Ministry of Defence said that aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious and assault ship HMS Bulwark were to be sent to the region.

Earlier, the Foreign Office warned members of the public against all travel to Lebanon as the situation in the Middle East worsened.

A spokesman said they were keeping the situation under "close review" and urged Britons in the area to "get ready for departure at short notice", including having travel documents in order.

The advice warned: "If you are currently in Lebanon, you should stay put for the time being, exercise caution, keep in touch with the Embassy and heed local advice."

It is thought there are an estimated 10,000 Britons in Lebanon, a figure calculated from the 3,500 families registered with the British embassy in Beirut.

There are also an additional 10,000 people with dual British and Lebanese nationality.

Earlier, Prime Minister Tony Blair called for "calm" following the air strikes in Lebanon by Israel in retaliation for the kidnap of two of its soldiers.

Speaking at a press conference with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Mr Blair said the most important thing was to support the United Nations' mission to "try and get some restraint" into the situation.

He said: "The only way we are going to get this situation resolved is if we support the UN mission, get some calm into the situation and then as soon as possible - and I want to emphasise how important I think this is for world security - get back in to the road map towards a two-state solution that offers the only chance for stability and peace in the future."

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=662080

to protect the embassy in needs be?lot of airlifting power there.plus marines?

[daily666]

Yeah, you got a point there ... I Just reposted that media-caption.

The second image could have the wrong caption though.
It may well turn out to be images of the launch only, out of sequence.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo00.photo.default-512x322.jpglaunch?
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060715/capt.sge.qvc37.150706162213.photo01.photo.default-512x343.jpgin flight?
The missile scales about right though ...


'Still waiting to see images of the damage.

Well, you're right I didn't get that idea of pics being in wrong sequence. The Launch pictuce is more like it because of all the shiny white fire which is propably from solid rocket propellant.

Hey, the HMS Illustrious was stationed this week in the Port of Pireaus! :)


So they're not far away.

I think they will support the evac operation of foreigners in Lebanon, and won't interfere in the conflict

[Pille1234]

The automatic anti missile system on board was TURNED OFF.
The reason was that they were affraid to hit IAI planes in the area
and that they did not expect the hezzbullah to have anti ship missiles.
That always sounds as if there was only a switch allowing missile defence on and off.
Usually a set of rules is defined to when and how to react to potential threats and in case of doubt it is the captain's responsibility to decide. We don't have enough information to judge what really was going on, but it does appear the crew let down the guard. That is at least how I interpret the 'missile system was turned off'.

[daily666]

That always sounds as if there was only a switch allowing missile defence on and off.
Usually a set of rules is defined to when and how to react to potential threats and in case of doubt it is the captain's responsibility to decide. We don't have enough information to judge what really was going on, but it does appear the crew let down the guard. That is at least how I interpret the 'missile system was turned off'.

Pille turning off the AA or surface radar can be interpreted by mindless journalists as turning the missile defence system off. In this kind of attacks the ship would solely rely on CIWS systems (Mk-15 and Barak). If the EW systems are off because the captain has completely no info on the threats from the coastline, the attack was easy task for the Hesbollah.

[Greek soldier]

So they're not far away.

I think they will support the evac operation of foreigners in Lebanon, and won't interfere in the conflict

It is actually a 2-day trip, unless they make a stop in Cyprus.

[Nano]

It is actually a 2-day trip, unless they make a stop in Cyprus.

Israel's operations should be over by then no?Someone on the forums said the U.S. gave them "permission" to do so until Sunday take that for a grain of salt
because it sure looks like this could last much longer and spread before Sunday. Hope foreigners uninvolved are evacuated ASAP cause things could get worse if more countries get entangled trying to get their people out if Syria, Iran or Israel decide they want to get the real party started.

[Greek soldier]

Actually US officials say that if the tension escalates even more, then they expect a land invasion within 6 days...

As for the foreigners that are trapped in Lebanon, now they are completely isolated and it is extremely difficult to go to the Lebanese-Syrian borders and leave by plane from Damascus.

[Kaplanr]

I know. I'm referring to the picture of the Saar 4.5.

The Saar 5 is a beauty. ;)

I'll take time out from bashing Hizb. and Lebanese government for not exercizing control over the south of their country.

No offense Lords but the Saar 5 is one Butt UGLY piece of marine engineering. THe Saar 4.5 would be ok except for the hyper tall, thick radar tower behind the command bridge.

The Saar 4 (Reshef Class) is the prettiest of the classes. IMO.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/saar4/saar4_80.gif

[Nano]

Looks like many countries believe it will get worse before it gets any better. It of course only makes sense to get your citizens out of any harms way.
Aljazeera.net reports that many governments are making plans to get their people out as quickly as possible. Anyone have any news on the evacuation of foreign nationals from Israel there only seems to be news on the one's in Lebanon.

[tanks_alot]

Actually US officials say that if the tension escalates even more, then they expect a land invasion within 6 days...

As for the foreigners that are trapped in Lebanon, now they are completely isolated and it is extremely difficult to go to the Lebanese-Syrian borders and leave by plane from Damascus.

Well a short cease fire in order to evecuate foreign citizens might be an option but i don't think it's a burning issue just yet.

as for a land invasion, something VERY serious would have to take place in order for that to happen but than again alot of things happend in the last week that i didn't think would, so who knowes....

[tanks_alot]

Looks like many countries believe it will get worse before it gets any better. It of course only makes sense to get your citizens out of any harms way.
Aljazeera.net reports that many governments are making plans to get their people out as quickly as possible. Anyone have any news on the evacuation of foreign nationals from Israel there only seems to be news on the one's in Lebanon.

Evacuation of foreign nationals from Israel....? cant they just catch a flight out of Israel?

[Greek soldier]

If Hizballah attacks Tel Aviv and keeps on firing Katjusha's missiles everywhere, the a land invasion is going to happen.

As for the cease-fire, no, won't happen.

My belief: There is a possibility some terrorists to flee to Lebanon and then head to Syria or, maybe, Iraq, during the cease-fire.

[One]

The foreign nationals are mainly composed of lebanese with foreign passports. There is a large number of lebanese people who have dual citizenships. American, canadian, british, french, german, autstralian, danish, swedish etc...


When they start evacuating nationals that means there might be a ground invasion. Similar to the 82 situation.

[Nano]

Evacuation of foreign nationals from Israel....? cant they just catch a flight out of Israel?

I was thinking they could just do that, but no news on the areas being hit by rockets and foreign nationals there. I just don't know if they are just waiting it out in bomb shelters or leaving asap. just assumed the longer they stick around the greater the need maybe for their governments to extract them themselves.(This is worse case scenerio if the fighting spreads to Syria before they can take a flight out of Israel)

[One]

If Hizballah attacks Tel Aviv and keeps on firing Katjusha's missiles everywhere, the a land invasion is going to happen.

As for the cease-fire, no, won't happen.

My belief: There is a possibility some terrorists to flee to Lebanon and then head to Syria or, maybe, Iraq, during the cease-fire.

I guess you don't know who fights with hezbollah. And apprently you dont know geography or lebanese politics or the history of wars in Lebanon. I don't mean this as a flame or to be an asshole just my opnion. During the 1982 invasion the lebanese fought with AKs and RPGs and they never fled.

[tanks_alot]

If Hizballah attacks Tel Aviv and keeps on firing Katjusha's missiles everywhere, the a land invasion is going to happen.

As for the cease-fire, no, won't happen.

My belief: There is a possibility some terrorists to flee to Lebanon and then head to Syria or, maybe, Iraq, during the cease-fire.

Deciding that the red line is rockets droping on Tel-aviv would be a double standard for all the rest of the towns and cities that are under constant shelling, not to mention Sderot and i'm saying that as a Tel-avivian.

people are alredy fleeing to Syria now, it's not like there are IDF troops all along Lebanon's/Syria border, a 12 hour cease fire or something like that wouldn't make much diffrence.

to get a ground invasion going something major will have to happen, like a very large number of dead civilains or some other crazy rabbit getting pulled out of hezbollah's hat.

[He219]

I have a question for you One, did Hezbolla use their own costal radar to target that Israeli warship or is Hezbolla integrated with the Lebanese defense forces?

[One]

I have a question for you One, did Hezbolla use their own costal radar to target that Israeli warship or is Hezbolla integrated with the Lebanese defense forces?

Israel could be right. Everyone in lebanon knows that the army and hezbollah coordinate together. So could they have given them radar support? Maybe. I mean if the misisle required some sort of radar it could of been the army's. Its possible that Iran gave the army these radars too or the syrians left them behind after they withdrew.

No one on lebanese tv is reporting on this issue which is kind of weird.

[Greek soldier]

I guess you don't know who fights with hezbollah. And apprently you dont know geography or lebanese politics or the history of wars in Lebanon. I don't mean this as a flame or to be an asshole just my opnion. During the 1982 invasion the lebanese fought with AKs and RPGs and they never fled.

1) Most of Hizballah militants are of Palestinian origin
2) Geography? Saw the map now. Lebanon is a small country.
3) Yes, I don't know much about Lebanese wars, even though I have talked with some (3-4) Christian and Muslim Lebanese who fled to Cyprus in the 1980's.

to tanks_alot: When the enemy is attacking the capital, it is a casus belli.

[tanks_alot]

1) Most of Hizballah militants are of Palestinian origin
2) Geography? Saw the map now. Lebanon is a small country.
3) Yes, I don't know much about Lebanese wars, even though I have talked with some (3-4) Christian and Muslim Lebanese who fled to Cyprus in the 1980's.

to tanks_alot: When the enemy is attacking the capital, it is a casus belli.

Most of hezballah are not palestinian and Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

[One]

1) Most of Hizballah militants are of Palestinian origin
2) Geography? Saw the map now. Lebanon is a small country.
3) Yes, I don't know much about Lebanese wars, even though I have talked with some (3-4) Christian and Muslim Lebanese who fled to Cyprus in the 1980's.

to tanks_alot: When the enemy is attacking the capital, it is a casus belli.

Thanks for showing everyone how ignorant you are on that matter. I'm not gonna even bother explaining. But I would suggest to keep your analysis to yourself. Because apprently you lack knowledge about the situation.

[Greek soldier]

As I said on another thread, for some years I wasn't following the situation on the ME, since even the Greek Media never bothered to. They consider "ordinary stuff" the suicide attacks in cafeterias and bus stops and the IDF's bombings in the Gollan Heights. I was showing more attention on Iraq, due to the 2003 invasion.

BTW, concering Israel's capital, for so many years I knew it was Tel Aviv. The school books were teaching us Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. And the Greek State recognizes Tel Aviv AFAIK.

Most countries do not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital; the reasons for this are political, and they ignore the basic right of every state to determine its capital. The State of Israel has exercised that right and determined, very naturally, that its capital is Jerusalem.

http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-1760.html

[tanks_alot]

Thanks for showing everyone how ignorant you are on that matter. I'm not gonna even bother explaining. But I would suggest to keep your analysis to yourself. Because apprently you lack knowledge about the situation.

How about relaxing a bit? he didn't write anything that bad and your belief that if Israel would invade everyone would pick up their AK and go kamikazi isn't the most accurate assessment as well you know....?

[One]

How about relaxing a bit? he didn't write anything that bad and your belief that if Israel would invade everyone would pick up their AK and go kamikazi isn't the most accurate assessment as well you know....?

I am relaxed!

You're right not everyone is going to pickup a weapon. But if israel invades a majority will. Not because they support hezbollah, but because they don't want a foreign army on their ground.

NEW: Israel will consider cease fire under these conditions

1) Hezbollah to be stationed before Litani River
2) Hezbollah to hand over all katyushas to lebanese army

On these conditions Israel is willing to have a complete cease fire. Anyone have a source for this?

[tanks_alot]

I am relaxed!

You're right not everyone is going to pickup a weapon. But if israel invades a majority will. Not because they support hezbollah, but because they don't want a foreign army on their ground.

NEW: Israel will consider cease fire under these conditions

1) Hezbollah to be stationed before Litani River
2) Hezbollah to hand over all katyushas to lebanese army

On these conditions Israel is willing to have a complete cease fire. Anyone have a source for this?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3276269,00.html

[Nano]

I find it doubtful that Israel's current conditions for a cease-fire would be accepted. I think if they were and Hezbollah refused a civil war would break out once again in Lebanon. The situation is going to get much worse if neither side budges. It seems like both sides have a lot to loose if they do budge and the only question now is how far is either side willing to take this? It would only take one side to spread the conflict and the other would have no choice but to respond unkind.

[UZI4U]

BTW, concering Israel's capital, for so many years I knew it was Tel Aviv. The school books were teaching us Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. And the Greek State recognizes Tel Aviv AFAIK.



http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-1760.html

And in Iran you can't find Israel on the map... doesn't make a difference.

[One]

I find it doubtful that Israel's current conditions for a cease-fire would be accepted. I think if they were and Hezbollah refused a civil war would break out once again in Lebanon. The situation is going to get much worse if neither side budges. It seems like both sides have a lot to loose if they do budge and the only question now is how far is either side willing to take this? It would only take one side to spread the conflict and the other would have no choice but to respond unkind.

Some lebanese analysts are saying Israel is planning on the civil war aspect. Thats why they are heavily bombing civilian targets. Make life hell for them and they will turn against hezbollah.

Will there be a civil war? I highly doubt it. All the political leaders (hariri, jumblat, aoun, jaajaa, 14 march group etc..) are trying to avoid that. Some of them disagree with what hezbollah is doing but they dont want the lebanese to fight eachother at the same time. The ones that worked with israel in the past are now saying Israel is an enemy. I don't think hezbollah will accept the terms either.

How far are they willing to take this? I would say as far as the civilians can handle. Whoever breaks down first will break the government.


Updates: TV reports that an israeli unit was ambushed by hezbollah after trying to cross the border. 1 vehicle (tank or APC) was blown up according to hezbollah. What is israel saying?

[callous]

Iranian troops helped Hezbollah attack

JERUSALEM - A missile fired by Hezbollah, not an unmanned drone laden with explosives, damaged an Israeli warship off Lebanon, the army said Saturday. Elite Iranian troops helped fire the missile, a senior Israeli intelligence official said.

One sailor was killed and three were missing.

The intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information, said about 100 Iranian soldiers are in Lebanon and helped fire the Iranian-made, radar-guided C-102 at the ship late Friday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13875121/

[Nano]

Some lebanese analysts are saying Israel is planning on the civil war aspect. Thats why they are heavily bombing civilian targets. Make life hell for them and they will turn against hezbollah.

Will there be a civil war? I highly doubt it. All the political leaders (hariri, jumblat, aoun, jaajaa, 14 march group etc..) are trying to avoid that. Some of them disagree with what hezbollah is doing but they dont want the lebanese to fight eachother at the same time. The ones that worked with israel in the past are now saying Israel is an enemy. I don't think hezbollah will accept the terms either.

How far are they willing to take this? I would say as far as the civilians can handle. Whoever breaks down first will break the government.


Updates: TV reports that an israeli unit was ambushed by hezbollah after trying to cross the border. 1 vehicle (tank or APC) was blown up according to hezbollah. What is israel saying?

I am glad I got to know something about the Lebanese point on this from you. Anyone have any news on the two Israeli soldiers taken by Hezbollah wonder what became of them.

[sferrin]

Iranian troops helped Hezbollah attack

JERUSALEM - A missile fired by Hezbollah, not an unmanned drone laden with explosives, damaged an Israeli warship off Lebanon, the army said Saturday. Elite Iranian troops helped fire the missile, a senior Israeli intelligence official said.

One sailor was killed and three were missing.

The intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information, said about 100 Iranian soldiers are in Lebanon and helped fire the Iranian-made, radar-guided C-102 at the ship late Friday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13875121/

If that's true what will that do to the situation?

[akd]

If that's true what will that do to the situation?

Show that Iran is providing material support to Hezbollah. *gasp* shocking...

[shocker1]

Lebanon recalls its Ambassador to US
Thursday, 13 July, 2006 @ 8:24 AM

Beirut- Lebanon's Ambassador to the US Farid Abboud was recalled to Beirut on Wednesday night after expressing his support for Hezbollah in the US media.
Abboud was reported as saying that Israel was the only one who could bring about the release of the kidnapped soldiers by agreeing to negotiate with the movement via mediators.
Officials in Beirut stressed that Abboud's view did not represent that of Lebanon's government, which is totally opposed to Hezbollah 's actions on Israel's northern border.

History of misrepresentation by Abboud
This is not the first time Abboud misrepresents the country. He has been criticized on several occasions by the anti-Syrian opposition. They accused him of working for the Syrian-Lebanese security agencies rather than the Lebanese Foreign Ministry.
In April 2005 Ambassador Abboud's name was added to the list of outcasts (http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2005/04/opposition_adds.php)by the March 14 alliance "because of his endeavor to delay the formation of the U.N. reinvestigation commission and because he systematically fed the Lahoud regime with deliberately twisted information about Lebanon-related events." Jumblatt said in the nationally televised conference last year.
Also in April 2005 Minister Marwan Hamade called for ousting Abboud (http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2005/04/hamade_calls_fo.php)because:
Abboud had tried to "convince the UN Security Council to eliminate the words 'terrorist act' from its Resolution 1595," when describing the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.
Former Justice Minister Bahij Tabbara said he wondered who might be behind the "attempt to abolish the words 'terrorist act' to describe the crime, especially that (outgoing) Foreign Minister Mahmoud Hammoud" hadn't assigned Abboud to do so.
In May last Ya Libnan reported that prime Minister Najib Mikati was seriously considering http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2005/05/lebanese_ambass.php"replacing Farid Abboud (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/<br%20/) in Washington DC and relocating him elsewhere. But the pro-Syrian president , Emile Lahoud vetoed the plan.
Many political advisers think Abboud, just like Lahoud have become completely ineffective... His presence in Washington does not serve Lebanon's interest. It is expected that as soon as Lahoud goes so will Abboud.
By Ali Hussein- Ya Libnan Volunteer

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2006/07/lebanon_recalls.php

[sferrin]

Show that Iran is providing material support to Hezbollah. *gasp* shocking...


I meant besides the obvious :roll:

[Bert]

As I said on another thread, for some years I wasn't following the situation on the ME, since even the Greek Media never bothered to. They consider "ordinary stuff" the suicide attacks in cafeterias and bus stops and the IDF's bombings in the Gollan Heights. I was showing more attention on Iraq, due to the 2003 invasion.

BTW, concering Israel's capital, for so many years I knew it was Tel Aviv. The school books were teaching us Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. And the Greek State recognizes Tel Aviv AFAIK.



http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-1760.html
That's because recognizing Jerusalem would make Greece a partisan. Ooh, wouldn't want that! Might clash with the Eurabians in France and get kicked out of the EU or something.

[Greek soldier]

Bert, it will affect historic relations with the Arab countries. Greece is openly a pro-Arab country.

Athens News Agency - Condoleeza Rice said that the US is upset with the increasing death toll of Lebanese civilians, but added an immediate cease-fire won't solve the problem

[Darth Vidar]

According to Haaretz breaking new, the bodys of the 3 remaining missing sailors have been found inside the damaged part of the ship.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738748.html

May you rest in peace, brave sailors.....

[Alex-L]

According to Haaretz breaking new, the bodys of the 3 remaining missing sailors have been found inside the damaged part of the ship.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738748.html

May you rest in peace, brave sailors.....

RIP sailors

[DeltaWhisky58]

Opened by special request.

Post your breaking news here, do not open any further threads.

Anything remotely flaming/trolling will be removed and the offenders banned.

Abuse this thread and it will be closed.



Only news here please

[alexz]

Four Israeli soldiers killed on second day of major Maroun er Ras battle in S. Lebanon Thursday

DEBKAfile’s military sources report the epic battle evolved from a small Israeli special forces operation just inside Lebanon at noon Wednesday, July 19, to blow up Hizballah positions and destroy small fortified tunnels riddling the hills.

The tunnels were assumed to be unoccupied. The Israel force were horrified to find the first packed with Hizballah fighters heavily armed with automatic weapons, mortars and anti-tank missiles. The force took casualties in the first blast of fire. At least one tank was blown up. The combat quickly spread to additional sectors of the warfront, joined by Hizballah fighters who sprang out of more secret tunnels which the Israeli force had not known were there.

After several hours of heavy exchanges, Israel’s top brass and northern command were forced to look at a number of painful facts:

1. Hizballah had pulled the wool over their eyes. While pretending to be forced back by massive Israeli air attacks, its fighters went underground. When chief of staff Dan Halutz and other generals announced the Hizballah’s first line of fortifications had been flattened, the line had simply dropped out of sight. Building small tunnels over large areas to conceal small fighter squads was a favorite Vietcong ruse against the Americans in the 1960s and 1970s.

2. Hizballah was not fighting a static war out of the tunnels but working to an organized mobile battle plan. As the fighting grew fierce, and the IDF pumped reinforcements into the battle arena, so too did Hizballah, moving them nimbly from tunnel to tunnel in defensive and offensive roles.

3. By afternoon, the engagement had escalated from a contest over the Maroun er Ras tunnels to a decisive battle between Hizballah and the IDF for control of the Lebanese-Israeli border.

4. The two sides were locked in such close combat that the Israelis were constrained from bringing their helicopter gunships into play for decisive strikes against Hizballah fighters. The same difficulty confronted IDF tank guns.

5. In addition to engaging Israeli special forces at three points in south Lebanon from Maroun er Ras in the east to Rosh Hanikra in the west, Hizballah commandos staged incursions of their own. They made repeated attempts to breach the Israeli border and capture stretches of land in Western Galilee. Israeli forces engaged them in heavy battle Wednesday afternoon at Rosh Hanikra.

[alexz]

IAI spreads lealflets telling South Lebanses villigers to move North of the
Litani river and snitch on the where abouts of Hizzbullah fighters for a
generous reward (via phone and email).

[For_israelis]

Halutz just showed a video of IDF soldiers next to a mosque in Lebanon and right near the mosque (in the court of the mosque) there was a rocket launching vehicle that was destroyed by the soldiers.

[akd]

Chief of Staff: IDF will carry out limited ground operations in Lebanon

IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz said Friday during a press conference that the IDF would carry out "limited ground operations against terror infrastructure. Terrorists made a grave error," he said.

Close to 100 Hizbullah operatives have been killed since the beginning of IDF operations in Lebanon, "but we won't publish names," he said. (Hanan Greenberg)

[saigonsmuggler]

Report: German intelligence trying to secure release of IDF soldiers

By DPA

German and Russian intelligence services are using contacts to Hamas and Hezbollah in a bid to win the freedom of three Israeli soldiers being held by militants, the Berlin Zeitun newspaper said Friday.

The German Federal Intelligence Agency (BND) - in tandem with Russian intelligence - is seeking to activate long-standing links to both Hamas and Hezbollah, unnamed officials told the newspaper.

Hamas is holding an IDF soldier kidnapped in Gaza and Hezbollah has two IDF soldiers it captured on a raid earlier this month.




Advertisement

BND chief Ernst Uhrlau is an experienced negotiator with Mideast militants.

[DeltaWhisky58]

This thread was requested by the guys on the ground in Israel for people to post pertinent Breaking News.

The first post clearly explains that. I have already deleted four pointless posts.

Please read the warning again - NEWS ONLY. I will not be so lenient again.

[Snoshi]

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ruled out a quick cease-fire Friday as a "false promise" and defended her decision not to talk to officials from Hizbullah or Syria.



"Syria knows what it needs to do and Hizbullah is the source of the problem," Rice said at the State Department as she outlined US hopes for a diplomatic solution to the current crisis. (AP)

[alexz]

Israeli chief of stuff, Dan Halutz anounced both Golani and Givati brigades
have been trandfered to the Lebanese border. He also claims 100 hezbullah
fighters have been killed so far.

[Vorian]

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel could have three to four army divisions massed on the border with Lebanon by the end of the weekend as signs grow the military is preparing for a ground invasion, the YNET News Web site reported on Friday.

The army said it could not confirm or deny the report.

An army division normally comprises about 5,000 soldiers and around 100 tanks and many other armored vehicles.

YNET News -- the Web site of the mass circulation daily Yedioth Ahronoth -- said the army was preparing to move thousands more troops to the border this weekend as Israel steps up an offensive against Hizbollah guerrillas.

"In addition to a division deployed in the area, another two divisions will be deployed and be given missions. In addition, thousands more soldiers, a large part -- reservists -- will reach the area," the Website said in a report.

"That means army (forces) in the north would reach three to four divisions."

It gave no source for the information.

Israel earlier on Friday ordered several thousand reserve soldiers to report for duty.

Israel has been massing troops, tanks and artillery pieces near the border with Lebanon since the crisis with Hizbollah guerrillas erupted on July 12.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights R

[SOG]

cnn news live:
The lebanese president just stated on cnn that if israel came enmass into lebanon that the lebanese 61000 strong army would join hezzbola along with other militant groups and fight israel.

cnn then compared the two armies tanks/ships/helocopters and personell wise, israel out did lebanon by three times as much on every level except dedicated combat jets in which lebanon has 0.

cnn then covered protests/riots in egypt/iran/syria/lebanon where protestors were burning israel, american and british flags.

cnn: now covering lebanese wounded:
more than 300 lebanese killed
1100 wounded


out.

[PG18]

Body of Israeli soldier found in south Lebanon: TV
http://i.today.reuters.com/misc/genImage.aspx?uri=2006-07-21T220311Z_01_L21892680_RTRUKOP_2_PICTURE0.jpg
DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Arabiya television said on Friday the Israeli army had found the body of an Israeli soldier who had previously been reported missing.
It later said the body was found in southern Lebanon, but gave no more details.
Earlier on Friday, Israel's army confirmed that four soldiers had been killed and several wounded in fierce clashes with Hizbollah guerrillas just inside Lebanon on Thursday.
Israel has so far failed to stop Hizbollah cross-border rocket attacks, despite 10 days of bombardment which have killed 345 people in Lebanon and forced half a million to leave their homes. About 90 percent of those killed were civilians.


At least 34 Israeli troops and civilians have been killed, almost all in fighting with Hizbollah guerrillas or by rockets fired by the Lebanese group.


© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

[alexz]

IDF chief of stuff said Israel has the bodies of 13 hizzbulah fighters killed
in yesterdays fighting.

[alexz]

Report: US to deliver 'smart bombs' to Israel

New York Times reports that Israel asked US delivers shipment of smart bombs under deal signed last year; Washington believes Israel has long list of targets in Lebanon requiring precision-guided missiles
Yitzhak Benhorin, Washington

Washington - Smart bombs on the way: The Bush administration has complied with Israel's request for an expedited delivery of satellite and laser-guided bombs, the New York Times reported Saturday.

The newspaper reported that the decision could anger Arab countries who have accused Washington of giving Israel the green light to push ahead with its offensive against Lebanon.

Israel and the United States have kept silent on the type of bombs and the size of the delivery.

The delivery is part of a multimillion-dollar arms sale deal signed between Washington and Jerusalem last year, which Israel can draw on as needed.

But US officials said the arms delivery is not similar to that supplied by Washington to Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973, which helped Israel gain momentum against the attacking Arab armies.

Estimates are that Israel needs a large number of precision-guided bombs to bombard Hizbullah bunkers with little collateral damage.

Although the Pentagon refused to give details of the delivery, the newspaper said last year's agreement included 100 precision-guided bombs weighing two and a half tons each. The bombs are used to destroy underground concrete bunkers.

Israel is eligible to purchase "bunker buster" bombs capable of penetrating underground Hizbullah bunkers. The bombs can be fitted on F-15 jets.

The Bush administration has also approved a six-billion arms sale deal with Saudi Arabia, which the newspaper say is aimed at soothing Arab anger at Washington's support for Israel.

http://www.ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-8,00.html

[Clearday-TRForce]

Hundreds of Turks are fleeing from Lebanon by private cars, taxis or buses chartered by the Turkish Embassy in Beirut, while foreign evacuees are using Turkey as a transit point to return to their home countries. Some 206 people, 167 of whom are Turks, have come to Turkey so far by buses chartered by the Turkish Embassy. Another 104 Turks were evacuated from Lebanon by their own means, Foreign Ministry officials said yesterday.

Turkish authorities have already made necessary arrangements to help foreign nationals stranded in Lebanon safely return to their own countries via Turkey. So far 150 Brazilians, 110 Mexicans, 12 Argentineans, 1,000 Swedes, 200 Germans and 34 Moldovan citizens have reached Turkey via the Yayladağı and Cilvegözü border gates or via the Turkish port of Mersin, said ministry officials. On Monday, Turkey will be dispatching a ship to Lebanon to evacuate around 800 more Turks, officials said.

MERSIN HARBOUR - TURKEY
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=538090
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=538084
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=538086



Some 500 Canadians who were evacuated from Lebanon arrived at Mersin by ship yesterday morning, officials from the Canadian Embassy were quoted as saying.

The first group of Canadian evacuees arrived in the port of Mersin by ship late on Thursday and were flown home from the nearby city of Adana, the officials said.

So far, more than 700 Canadians have arrived in Turkey from Lebanon. Some 4,000 Canadians were expected to pass through Turkey as Canada tries to evacuate some 30,000 Canadian-citizen Lebanese residents.

The Brazilian government is trying to evacuate hundreds of its citizens via Turkey. The Brazilian Foreign Ministry spokesman reportedly said Foreign Minister Celso Amorim asked the Israeli government not to bomb the roads that would be used as a transition for evacuation from Lebanon.

The Brazilian government was reportedly preparing for the evacuation of its 1,000 citizens in Beirut, Damascus and Amman via Turkey.


The United States will begin to use Turkey's Mediterranean port of Mersin on Saturday as a stopover as part of government efforts to evacuate thousands of Americans stranded in war-torn Lebanon, the U.S. administration said on Thursday.
Washington already has started evacuating its citizens through south Cyprus, but transport capabilities there have proved to be insufficient to carry larger numbers of Americans from Lebanon, prompting U.S. officials to seek Turkey's assistance.

"We are now ramping up operations at Mersin, Turkey, to assist American citizens, given that the numbers we are bringing out are beginning to stretch the capacity we had previously established in Cyprus," Maura Harty, U.S. assistant secretary of state for consular affairs, told reporters here.

"Our mission in Turkey is prepared to use the port of Mersin as an overflow reception center for American citizens choosing to depart Lebanon," Harty said. "Travelers will be bused to İncirlik Airbase for onward travel to the United States."

The first passengers in this phase of the operation will likely arrive in Mersin on Saturday, she said.

"Special thanks to Turkey for facilitating our efforts to use the port of Mersin to help Americans leave and get on home after their departure from Lebanon," Marty said.

A commercial vessel, the Saudi-owned Rahmah, was to take 1,400 Americans to Turkey yesterday, the Associated Press said.

In Ankara, the U.S. Embassy announced yesterday it was rescheduling non-immigrant visa appointments at the embassy in Ankara and the U.S. Consulate General in Istanbul due to urgent requirements relating to the evacuation from Lebanon.

Accordingly, appointments scheduled between Monday, July 24 and Friday, July 28 are cancelled. Existing appointments between July 31 and Aug. 4 will remain as scheduled for the time being but no new appointments will be accepted during this period.

The embassy also said U.S. citizens would be transiting Turkey on the way to the U.S. from Lebanon over the next several days

“We are deeply grateful to the government of Turkey, the Turkish military and the authorities in Mersin for the outstanding assistance they are providing in facilitating this process,” it said.

The United States believes it has about 25,000 citizens in Beirut.

U.S. Marines waded ashore on a Beirut beach on Thursday and evacuated about 1,000 Americans to Cyprus, where thousands of foreigners have fled to escape Israeli air strikes against Lebanon. Harty said some 2,250 Americans left Lebanon on Thursday.

http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=538026
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=538043
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http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=537758
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=537684
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=537675
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=537674
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=537673
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=537611
http://aafoto.anadoluajansi.com.tr/getFileServlet?sfx=2&arcId=537625




regards,
CDTRF

[gustavski]

Lebanon president: We will fight invaders


CNN) -- President Emile Lahoud has urged the Lebanese to remain united in the face of an Israeli offensive against Hezbollah and logistical targets in Lebanon that was in its tenth day Saturday.
In an interview with CNN's Nic Robertson, Lahoud again called for a cessation of the violence and said that if a cease-fire can't be brokered, the Lebanese army is prepared to defend the country -- and Lebanese solidarity ultimately will save the nation.
ROBERTSON: Mr. Lahoud, it's now 10 days into this war. Is your country any closer to a cease-fire?
LAHOUD: I'm afraid to say it is not. And really all the time, massacres are happening in Lebanon. All the infrastructure is being hit and we are paying very high price. We have women, children, all are being hit by planes. And they never stop, people think that they will stop for a few hours. They go out to get their food or anything and suddenly they are hit again. This is a real massacre. (Watch Lahoud's complete interview -- 10:25 (javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/world/2006/07/21/robertson.lahoud.interview.cnn','2006/07/28');))
ROBERTSON: Do you think that the war is spiraling out of control and getting worse?
LAHOUD: It is getting much worse, and day after day more targets are getting hit. As you know the airport has been hit, all bridges, big bridges, small bridges, and now the roads. Only yesterday, only 200 meters from here, at 11 at night, they hit the road. Just like this, they are creating fear and, really, it is cycling to the point of no return. That is why that as soon as possible we are asking that there be a cease-fire.
ROBERTSON: Is there enough diplomacy under way, international diplomacy, to bring that cease-fire?
LAHOUD: Yes, we've had lots of visitors coming from abroad. But unfortunately they are talking, going, and coming and talking all the time but with no result. And this makes us think, is there anything behind that? Do they want to give more time to Israel to hit more?
ROBERTSON: Do they?
LAHOUD: Well, I think they are giving more time to Israel to hit, thinking that maybe Hezbollah will give up. Hezbollah will not give up. And because of that there will be more casualties, more destruction.
ROBERTSON: But as commander in chief of the army, why don't you tell the Lebanese army to stop Hezbollah and then bring an end to this?
LAHOUD: Well, if you knew the interior politics of Lebanon, you will understand that in 2000 Hezbollah was the main liberator of our land. And at the time, the Lebanese army was and still is with what is happening on the frontier. Because, you see, what was happening was Israel with airplanes ... but having the resistance, they think twice. And because of that there is no animosity between the army and the resistance. ... The resistance are Lebanese.
ROBERTSON: Do you mean the army supports Hezbollah at this time in their fight against Israel?
LAHOUD: Believe me, what we get from our side is nothing compared to if there is an internal conflict in Lebanon. So out thanks comes when we are united, and we are really united, and the national army is doing its work according to the government, and the resistance is respected in the whole Arab world from the population point of view. And very highly respected in Lebanon as well.
ROBERTSON: If you were to call on the army now to stop Hezbollah from attacking Israel, to stop Israel therefore attacking Lebanon. Would that divide the army along sectarian lines? Would the Shiites in the army go with Hezbollah?
LAHOUD: In the first place, I wouldn't give such an order. Believe me, Hezbollah has done a lot for Lebanon in liberating this land. ... Hezbollah is part of the government.
ROBERTSON: Would you call upon the Lebanese army to join the fight if Israel invades on a land invasion in large numbers across the border? (Watch how mismatched the Lebanese army would be against Israel -- 1:45 (javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/world/2006/07/21/mcintyre.israel.and.lebanon.cnn','2006/07/28');))
LAHOUD: Of course, the army is going to defend its land, and inside Lebanon they can do a lot. They cannot be strong enough to be against Israel on the frontier, because they have much more stronger materiel and weaponry. Inside [Lebanon] they know the land and, of course, they will fight the invading folks of Israel if it tries to come inside.
ROBERTSON: You will give them an order to go fight along the border?
LAHOUD: It's not Lahoud who gives them the order, it's the government. And I'm sure the government will give the order not to allow Israelis to invade Lebanon, for sure.
ROBERTSON: How close is this country to moving its army into the fight now?
LAHOUD: Well, I can't tell you now. What we're thinking is to have a cease-fire. That's what we're thinking because things that have been happening have not been happening before. I'll give you an example: Only yesterday, 23 tons of ammunition explosives came on one building, one mosque that is being built. That is more than is a tactical nuclear bomb. That means that they are using like a tactical nuclear [bomb]. But because [it is] conventional weaponry, no one is saying anything. But the result is really havoc, and we can not accept it. So before thinking about anything else and telling the army what to do and all that, the international community must really, as soon as possible, stop this killing, stop this fire. And then after that we can talk about what to do.
ROBERTSON: What are the terms of a deal that have to be worked out, and who is going to tell Hezbollah to stop fighting?
LAHOUD: If there is a cease-fire then they will start talking about everything. ... And they were discussing it, and they postponed the meeting for the end of this month to talk about the same subject. So why not let the Lebanese between themselves solve this thing?
ROBERTSON: Can the Lebanese government accept a buffer zone, an international buffer zone, with the strength of U.N. force between Lebanon and Israel?
LAHOUD: All of these subjects can be talked about after the cease-fire, because if you talk about it now it's up to the decision of the Lebanese to decide that and the government. Now, if we start talking about this, this is between the Lebanese, and probably that is what Israel is trying to do because by hitting all the time it makes maybe some Lebanese have conflict with other Lebanese. And it has been trying six years to do that. ... And now that the Lebanese are united they are trying to find a way to divide them.
We're going to stay united, and that's what makes the strength of Lebanon. And we want ourselves to solve our problems, not to force these problems on us. Because when you force these problems, believe me, when we are united nobody can do it. And the proof is that when in 2000 nobody believed we could liberate our land but we could do it because the Lebanese were united and the national army was with the united Lebanon and with the resistance.
ROBERTSON: Not everyone supports Hezbollah, and there are divisions in this community. And this country fought a 15-year civil war over those divisions. Those divisions are re-emerging below the surface of support of the attacks that are going on. Those figures could realistically grow bigger.
LAHOUD: Yes, but we're not going to let them. Because the Lebanese have learned the lesson. Because when they fight between themselves it's much worse than having someone come from outside. Because we've seen what happened in '75 because we paid a very high price. Now, being united, whatever Israel can do we stay strong, because this makes the morale of the Lebanese stronger when they are united and no one can beat them.
ROBERTSON: Having so many displaced people moving around the country, half a million according to the U.N., raising tensions. We saw a situation yesterday where displaced people told us they were being turned away from collection centers along sectarian, religious and ethnic lines.
LAHOUD: Believe me, this is not true because they are welcome in all our homes. And all Lebanese are saying whoever wants to come is very welcome, and they have made centers all over Lebanon to welcome them. ... So let's live together and, like the late Pope John Paul said, let Lebanon, who has 17 different religious sects, is a message to the world that we can live together. So, if we can live together under stress like now, and after this finishes we can become even stronger. And it will be a strong message to the world that religious sectarians and people in the world can live together in peace and harmony.
ROBERTSON: Are there any behind-the-scenes diplomatic talks under way that are going to de-escalate the situation right now?
LAHOUD: Well, we hope so. Talks are being made and many are trying to find ways how to solve things but they are slow.
ROBERTSON: Is there anything concrete on the table? Any concrete plans?
LAHOUD: Until now, no. We have just heard secretary-general of the U.N. He proposed the plan and said we'll talk about it. But children are being killed, massacred. And we don't see these pictures of these children in the international media because of political reasons. If you see them, well you can't wait to talk about it and wait for these children and women with nowhere to go and live under bombs and shells. They just live outside. They don't have a shelter. We can't wait for the talks to go on. Meanwhile the aircrafts are bombing whatever they want in Lebanon. It never happened. ... I don't see anything in history that has happened like what is happening now. Airplanes are hitting civilians all over the country and [there is no] retaliation on these airplanes because they are civilians. Now, they want to solve this, they must stop the fire and sit around the table and talk about this.
ROBERTSON: But if there is nothing on the table right now, the implication is that this is going to spiral out of control, get worse, and spread throughout the region.
LAHOUD: Exactly, and that's why we're saying we don't want to reach the point of no return.
ROBERTSON: Are you at the point of no return yet?
LAHOUD: Not yet.
ROBERTSON: How close?
LAHOUD: We are close, but not yet. We can do a lot if we can stop the fighting now.
ROBERTSON: Days or weeks?
LAHOUD: I hope ... that we solve this problem before it escalates and then we can't stop it. Believe me, violence brings violence, and it will be a cycle that no one will be able to get out of and everybody will lose. If Israel thinks it's going to win, it's very mistaken. You cannot solve things and have peace in the region with violence. It might be now they have all this weaponry. But what about the children and the people who have brothers and sisters now dying? Well, they're pushing them to, really, well, they don't have anything to lose. For them, their life is nothing, so whatever will do to them. In the future they will seek revenge. So the only way [is] to stop the firing right now for the good of everybody.
ROBERTSON: There's no timeframe yet for Secretary Rice to visit the region, how much does that concern you?
LAHOUD: Well, I can tell you it was said two days ago that she was coming and she didn't come. ... But it's not coming and going that counts, it's the solution that counts. We hope they have a solution for the cease-fire.
ROBERTSON: What's the solution that's going to work here?
LAHOUD: Cease-fire and then we talk.
ROBERTSON: How do you get the cease-fire? The Israelis want their soldiers back.
LAHOUD: There were three in Lebanon that have been in prison since 30 years. And there were many, and there was an exchange. So why now, suddenly, after taking two soldiers they have done such a retaliation? Because I believe all was planned from before and, unfortunately, they were waiting for the moment. And when the moment came and these two soldiers were taken, they had the plan of attack. It's not for the reason that the soldiers were taken, it's for other reasons. Because since 2000 they have wanted to take their revenge because they had to leave Lebanon. They have other things in mind as well.
ROBERTSON: Why didn't the government keep Hezbollah under control if the situation is so potentially divisive?
LAHOUD: All I can say is now two soldiers have been taken and in response they are doing massive destruction in Lebanon. Is that right? I don't think so because it is very disproportionate. Two soldiers have been taken, and in the past soldiers have been taken and they exchange. So now, why they are doing that? Because they have a previous plan and they are executing that plan in that way thinking they will do what they did in '82. But things have changed since '82.
ROBERTSON: How?
LAHOUD: Because it's not like '82 that they can come in Lebanon and make a promenade until they reach Beirut. These people, underground Lebanese, are ready to die for their land.
ROBERTSON: Hezbollah?
LAHOUD: Not only Hezbollah, many people are ready to die for their land. Wouldn't you do that if they go inside your country? You'd do the same. And the Lebanese army as well. We're not going to let anyone take our land. We've done it in the past, we liberated our land. We're not going to let them come back and take it from us.
ROBERTSON: How bad is the humanitarian situation right now?
LAHOUD: It's a catastrophe. If I told you there's nothing to eat, nothing to put fuel in their cars, electricity is nearly always stopped. You can't go on the road because you don't know when an aircraft hits you. ... And we know very well, by the satellite you can see the number of the part. So how can they make that mistake? They're using these ways to make people afraid and leave the country and then bring down the morale of the people. And then at the end they come and occupy and do what they did at the end of '82, or change everything in Lebanon and have it the way they want it like they did in '82. We're not going to let them.
ROBERTSON: How bad is the destruction? How long will it take the country to rebuild? How much will it cost the country?
LAHOUD: Only today I [was] told that everything is going up quickly. Now it's $3 billion, only two days ago it was $2 billion. ... Well, some bridges take five years to build, so it will take the same. But even then we don't want to reach the point of no return. Because once you reach the point of return, it becomes desperate, and he's ready to die for his country and this becomes a big problem for everybody.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/meast/07/21/cnna.lahoud/story.robertson2.cnn.jpg
Lebanese President Emile Lahoud is calling for a cease-fire but says the country will defend itself if invaded.

[Snoshi]

Israeli tanks, bulldozers and personnel carriers knocked down a border fence and entered Southern Lebanon on Saturday.



The equipment, carrying about 25 soldiers, raced past a UN outpost and headed into a village where other Israeli soldiers already had control. Artillery based inside Israel was firing into the area. (AP)

[alvarito]

New York Times reports that Israel asked US delivers shipment of smart bombs under deal signed last year; Washington believes Israel has long list of targets in Lebanon requiring precision-guided missiles
Yitzhak Benhorin, Washington

Washington - Smart bombs on the way: The Bush administration has complied with Israel's request for an expedited delivery of satellite and laser-guided bombs, the New York Times reported Saturday.

The newspaper reported that the decision could anger Arab countries who have accused Washington of giving Israel the green light to push ahead with its offensive against Lebanon.
Israel and the United States have kept silent on the type of bombs and the size of the delivery.
The delivery is part of a multimillion-dollar arms sale deal signed between Washington and Jerusalem last year, which Israel can draw on as needed.
But US officials said the arms delivery is not similar to that supplied by Washington to Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973, which helped Israel gain momentum against the attacking Arab armies.
Estimates are that Israel needs a large number of precision-guided bombs to bombard Hizbullah bunkers with little collateral damage.
Although the Pentagon refused to give details of the delivery, the newspaper said last year's agreement included 100 precision-guided bombs weighing two and a half tons each. The bombs are used to destroy underground concrete bunkers.
Israel is eligible to purchase "bunker buster" bombs capable of penetrating underground Hizbullah bunkers. The bombs can be fitted on F-15 jets.

The Bush administration has also approved a six-billion arms sale deal with Saudi Arabia, which the newspaper say is aimed at soothing Arab anger at Washington's support for Israel.




I thought Israel had this kind of weapons, and that it has also the ability to produce them????????

[DeltaWhisky58]

The warning at the start of this thread is quite specific - it was opewned at the request of several of our Israeli members for breeaking news only.

Last chance - any more non-news posts and I will close the thread. There are plenty discussion threads on similar topics, use those.

[Snoshi]

Al-Jazeera: Land Forces Commander Israeli army to declare control Maron head and Bint Jbeil in southern Lebanon

[Snoshi]

Exclusive: IDF has started building detention compound to be used for holding Hizbullah members that will be captured during fighting in north. Officials: Project attests to government's plans for large-scale ground incursion in Lebanon
Sharon Roffe-Ofir


Preparing for an extended ground operation: The IDF has started constructing a temporary detention center designed to hold the Lebanese prisoners that will be captured during army operations in Southern Lebanon, Ynet has learned recently.


A truck convoy carrying barbed-wire fences, containers, and mobile showers and toilets started unloading equipment at the Filon military base near Rosh Pina Friday, and construction works at the place are already underway. According to plans, the structure should be able to hold up to hundreds of Hizbullah prisoners at any given time.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...279762,00.html

[khukuri]

Israeli troops seize Lebanese village

Some 2,000 Israeli troops entered Lebanon on Saturday



Hundreds of Israeli troops have crossed the border and taken control of a village in south Lebanon, despite Israel saying it has no plans for a full-scale invasion for now.

Israeli soldiers, backed by artillery and tank fire, moved into the village of Maroun al-Ras on Saturday and took control, military officials said on condition of anonymity.

Israeli tanks, bulldozers and armoured personnel carriers knocked down a border fence and entered the area at about 3pm.

Up to 2,000 troops entered the area on Saturday, but some returned to Israel during the day. No Israeli or Hezbollah casualties were immediately reported

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/34DB2F67-87F8-48E3-A463-2BC9219E0454.htm




ps: This is a great thread! Where you can get the info only. PLz dont **** this up people...

[Snoshi]

Israeli troops have ousted Hizbollah guerrillas from the key southern Lebanese town of Maroun al-Ras after several days of fierce fighting, ground forces commander Major-General Benny Gantz said on Saturday.

Six commandos have been killed in clashes around Maroun al-Ras, which Israel said had served as a staging ground for attempted Hizbollah attacks on nearby Israeli border towns such as Avivim during a more than 10-day-old regional flare-up.

Gantz told reporters at a daily briefing that Hizbollah had suffered dozens of casualties in and around the town.

"In summary, it can be said that the area of Maroun al-Ras, that had served as a (Hizbollah) vantage point over Avivim, now serves as an (Israeli) vantage point over Bint Jbail," Gantz said, referring to a suspected Hizbollah stronghold nearby.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...News-TopNews-2

[tanks_alot]

Israel starts building a detention center for lebanese captives:http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3279762,00.html

[saigonsmuggler]

Troops moving on to "Hizbollah capital" Bint Jabel after capturing Marun a-Ras - ynetnews reporting. Residents and Hez fighters deserted towns ahead of advancing IDF troops.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3279867,00.html

[Abu_Elvis]

What was found in Maroun Ras:

GOC Northern Command Major General Udi Adam said Friday that Israel is at war and that human life is important, but now is not the time to count the dead.

The Northern Command believes that the fighting in the north will continue for several more weeks, with additional casualties and fatalities.

"We must change our way of thinking. Human life is important, but we are at war, and it costs human lives. We won't count the dead at present, only at the end. We'll cry for the dead and will encourage the fighters. There are more places like Maroun Ras, and unfortunately we'll have to reach them."

Adam refused to disclose details on the number of ground forces operating in southern Lebanon. According to Adam, the operation includes "many" soldiers, but is not a "massive" incursion.

Adam said that 20 Hezbollah fighters have been killed in south Lebanon during clashes in recent days. Four Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed in the clashes Thursday.

According to Adam, soldiers in the village of Maroun Ras found a stockpile of Katyusha rockets in a mosque, as well as weapons used by the militants.

He said that rockets were fired from the vicinity of Maroun Ras at Safed and Tiberias, and that the IDF ground operation in the area may have been one of the factors for fewer Katyusha rockets fired at Israel on Thursday.

When asked about concerns that Israel would sink in the Lebanese mud, Adam said, "I suggest that everyone exercise patience. This is not a short story, but it is not never-ending."

Pointing at a nearby mountain range, Adam said, "Until a week ago, there were Hezbollah militants in this area, and now there aren't." He went on to say that in nine days of fighting, a great deal of Hezbollah infrastructure had been damaged.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/741318.html

[saigonsmuggler]

Syria reportedly offered to negotiate with UN for end of Lebanon violence.

[Abu_Elvis]

Makes me wonder, who is more insane, hezbolah or PETA?

PETA has sent an urgent letter (http://www.peta.org/MC/NewsItem.asp?id=8624) to Brig. Gen. Carl Jensen—the military commander in charge of U.S. evacuation operations in Lebanon—begging him to instruct his officers to help evacuees take their animals with them to safety and bringing international attention (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19850320-23109,00.html) to the government’s failure to serve all Americans trapped in Lebanon.
PETA also dashed off a letter to Siyabonga Ponco, chargé d’affaires of the South African Embassy in Cairo, urging him to permit South African nationals who are being evacuated to take their companion animals with them rather than forcing them to abandon their animals in the rubble to starve. The plea (http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/Lebanon/200994) stemmed from an e-mail message that Ponco sent to PETA in which he suggested that evacuees with animals should “not demand more than they could be given”—implying that a request to help South African citizens take their beloved cats, dogs, and birds with them would be asking too much.
http://www.helpinganimals.com/f-lebanon.asp

[Abu_Elvis]

WaPo interview with ex SLA fighters living in Israel:

Views Complicated By Dual Loyalties
Lebanese Who Fought Alongside Israel Watch New Conflict on Familiar Terrain

By Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, July 22, 2006; A10



NAHARIYA, Israel, July 21 -- Along with almost every other resident of this seaside city, where more than 80 rockets have landed in the past week, the four old friends now spend their days in an underground bomb shelter, playing cards with their children and arguing about what the future holds.
Veterans of Israel's previous war in Lebanon, they know better than just about anyone the terrain and the people being bombarded by Israeli warplanes and artillery. After all, it's their homeland.

The men once belonged to the South Lebanon Army (SLA), a small militia composed mainly of Lebanese Christians that worked closely with Israeli forces battling fighters from the Palestine Liberation Organization -- and later from Hezbollah -- during Israel's 18-year occupation of a self-declared security zone. Fearing retribution by neighbors who labeled them traitors, they and thousands of others fled Lebanon, along with their families, when Israel withdrew in 2000.

One is now a house painter, one a builder, one an unemployed cook and one a retiree.

With Israel again engaged in conflict in Lebanon, their views are more complicated than those rooted firmly on one side of the escalating standoff involving their new country and their old one.

"We are afraid for our families. All of our relatives are still there, in the villages, where the bombs are falling, and we have not heard from them since all of this began," said George, 33, who, like other former SLA members interviewed Friday, spoke only on the condition his last name be omitted because he feared retribution against his family in Lebanon.
"We don't want any more civilians to get hurt or die. But I am pleased, very pleased, with one thing. They are kicking Hezbollah. With the help of God, no one with the smell of Hezbollah will be left when this is done."
More than 2,000 former SLA members and their families, about 80 percent of the total who moved to Israel, settled in Nahariya, a coastal city of more than 50,000 that lies less than 25 miles south of the Lebanese border, according to the city's mayor, Jacky Sebag.

When they came to Israel six years ago from a country still technically at war with the Jewish state, the Israeli government treated them much as it does other new arrivals, Sebag said, offering assistance with finding housing and jobs and, unlike most Israeli Arabs, settling them in Jewish cities and towns. Most carry identification cards that identify them as former SLA soldiers, which they say spares them the extra hassles other Arabs face here.

"They are part and parcel of the community here, they attend our schools, some even work for the municipality, and they are involved in the social and cultural life of the city," Sebag said. "This is the least we could do for them in return for what they did for the state of Israel."

Israeli soldiers who fought alongside them also remember them fondly. "They were as eager to fight as we were, maybe more," said Betzalail Lev Tov, who fought in the 1982 invasion and now lives in Mitzgav-Am, a kibbutz, or collective farm, on the Lebanese border.

But their immersion into their adopted country has been challenging. Few have earned citizenship, which would bring the right to vote, a passport and other benefits. Many of the SLA members who came to Israel have since moved on to other countries, including hundreds who returned to Lebanon after Hezbollah said they could do so with impunity.

Neither Jewish nor accepted by Israel's Arab community, those who remained here say they have long lacked a true sense of belonging. The Lebanese government and human rights organization have accused the SLA, which once boasted a few thousand fighters in southern Lebanon, of torturing Lebanese prisoners in detention facilities, an allegation that has further inflamed many in the Arab world against them.

The group was originally formed in the 1970s by former Lebanese soldiers to fight the PLO as it gained influence in the country's south. Entire Maronite Christian towns enlisted to fight. Eventually, some Sunni and Shiite Muslims did, too.

"If you meet an Arab here and you tell him you're from Lebanon, he gives you a strange look and calls you a traitor, a collaborator," said Atiyeh, 37, a former SLA corporal who now works as a janitor at Haifa's Rambam Hospital. "We protected our Lebanon, our land, our homes and our dignity, and Israel helped us. We are not traitors, we are patriots."

In Nahariya, the former fighters very much looked the part of Israelis under siege, lounging on mattresses dragged from their apartments to the cement basement, watching MTV with their children. Three Israeli families shared the shelter with them.

Most SLA fighters said they would favor a ground invasion of Lebanon to root out Hezbollah, despite the high number of casualties that would probably result. "It is the only way," said Michael, a former SLA lieutenant. "A ground fight would be very, very hard. They are the experts at shooting and then vanishing into the civilians. They shoot from churches and mosques, and schools, and houses with people in them. Many people would be killed. But otherwise they will never, ever leave."

Michel, another former soldier, said that what all former SLA soldiers want more than anything else is is to return to Lebanon -- but only if Hezbollah is eliminated. When the rockets began to fall on Nahariya last week, "all of us celebrated, because we knew it meant Israel would fight."

"It is such a hard thing to leave your country. We have been waiting for this moment for six years," he said. "It is painful inside to see what is happening to the families. But Lebanon needs change. They used to call it the bride of the Middle East, but now it is like a joke. We want to be able to go back to our home with respect and honor, but with Hezbollah there, we can't."

As with every SLA member interviewed Friday, Michel said Israel's offensive should continue. While the current clashes were triggered by Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid last week, Michel saw their wider cause as the Jewish state's decision to leave Lebanon in 2000 without signing a truce -- a move many Arabs saw as a triumph for Hezbollah. Cutting their old Shiite foe down to size meant more hardship ahead, the former soldiers warned.

"Only God can save Lebanon now," Michel said.
"God or George Bush," George corrected.

[daily666]

CNN reports 2 killed, 4 wounded as Haifa comes under rocket attack by Hezbollah.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Israeli jets bomb Lebanese cities


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41919000/jpg/_41919978_sidon_ap203b.jpg
Families have been fleeing Israeli strikes in southern Lebanon

Israeli warplanes have struck at suspected Hezbollah sites in Lebanon in the port of Sidon and the capital, Beirut, as well as the Baalbek area.


The air strikes come a day after Israel said it had taken the village of Maroun al-Ras, said to be a Hezbollah rocket base, after days of heavy fighting.

Hezbollah said the village was the scene of an "epic battle".
Meanwhile at least two people have died after Hezbollah militants launched rockets at the Israeli city of Haifa.

A volley of explosions on Sunday set sirens wailing and emergency services racing through the streets, says the BBC's Raffi Berg in Haifa, on Israel's northern coast.

Reports say a car travelling on a main road in Haifa was hit, and a house was badly damaged.

Envoys to press Israel

Three European envoys are to hold talks with Israel on Sunday, ahead of a visit by the US Secretary of State.

Israeli officials are scheduled to meet German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy, who has warned of a spiral of violence.

UK Foreign Office Minister Kim Howells will also travel to Israel for talks, having already accused its government of imposing a collective punishment on Lebanon in its 12-day campaign against Hezbollah fighters.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1153635144/img/laun.jpg (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_enl_1153635144/html/1.stm)
An Israeli air raid on a village near the city of Baalbek sends a plume of smoke into the sky
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/inline_dashed_line.gif

And US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is travelling to the Middle East on Sunday.

As thousands of people try to leave southern Lebanon, the United Nations has warned of a humanitarian crisis.

Its humanitarian chief Jan Egeland has arrived in Beirut, as the UN seeks to secure safe routes out for fleeing civilians.

Mr Egeland said half a million people needed assistance - and the number was likely to increase.

One-third of the recent Lebanese casualties, he said, appeared to be children.

As concerns about hundreds of thousands of displaced civilians grew, Israel eased restrictions on Lebanon's blockaded ports to allow aid into the country.

Angry protests condemning Israeli attacks have been held in European cities. London saw the biggest with about 7,000 marchers, according to police.

'More incursions'

Israel's latest aerial attacks focussed on the southern port city of Sidon and the southern suburbs of Beirut, a Hezbollah stronghold.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41916000/gif/_41916290_leb_is_gaz2_launch203.gif
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/inline_dashed_line.gif

Mid-East crisis map (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5177932.stm)


Hours earlier, Israel said its forces had driven Hezbollah guerrillas out of the hilltop village of Maroun al-Ras, where six Israeli commandos were killed earlier this week.

The report has not been confirmed independently and Hezbollah's al-Manar TV station reported earlier on Saturday that fighting was under way in the village.

According to the BBC's Crispin Thorold in Jerusalem, the village has a strategic value, overlooking several other sites said to have been used as launch pads for Hezbollah rockets.

Hezbollah continued to fire dozens of rockets into Israel on Saturday, hitting the towns of Carmiel, Kiryat Shmona and Nahariya, and wounding several Israelis.

There are substantial numbers of Israeli forces near the border, and military sources suggest that there will be continued incursions in the coming days.

Israel insists it has no plans for a large-scale invasion and its ground forces are only entering Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah hideouts that cannot be attacked from the air.

Fleeing civilians

Israel issued a specific warning to civilians in 14 villages, telling them to leave by Saturday evening.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41919000/jpg/_41919988_pilots_gi203b.jpg
Israel has urged the US to hasten the delivery of weapons


The warnings issued to 14 villages came a day after Israel dropped leaflets warning Lebanese civilians to flee a broad swathe of the south.

The BBC's Martin Asser in the southern city of Tyre described long queues of taxis and cars negotiating bomb-cratered roads and making detours around destroyed bridges.

Many civilians from villages in the region had gathered in the city during the week and are now trying to leave. However, many people say they are reluctant to move without UN protection.

On the 11th day of fighting, Israeli jets knocked out TV and phone masts in the east and north of Lebanon, disrupting broadcasts for Hezbollah's Al-Manar television and the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation.

Israel also briefly occupied the village of Marwahin, but has now withdrawn.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
The New York Times daily has cited US officials saying the US is rushing a delivery of satellite and laser-guided bombs to Israel.

The latest crisis was triggered by the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah militants on 12 July.

More than 350 Lebanese have been killed in the 11 days of violence, many of them civilians. Thirty-four Israelis have been killed, including 15 civilians killed by rockets fired by Hezbollah into Israel.

BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5207152.stm)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Israel 'seizes' Hezbollah village


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41919000/jpg/_41919840_fleeinglebanese_ap203b.jpg
Lebanese civilians waving white flags have been fleeing attacks

Israeli forces say they have seized the Lebanese border village of Maroun al-Ras, an apparent base used by Hezbollah to fire rockets into Israel.

Exchanges of fire can be still be heard in the village, said by Hezbollah to be the scene of an "epic battle".

Israeli planes reportedly bombed Beirut and the city of Sidon early on Sunday, the 12th day of the campaign.

Thousands of people have been trying to leave southern Lebanon and the United Nations warns of a humanitarian crisis.

Its humanitarian chief is en route to Beirut, as the UN seeks to secure safe routes out for fleeing civilians.

The UN's Jan Egeland said half a million people needed assistance - and the number was likely to increase.

One-third of the recent Lebanese casualties, he said, appeared to be children.

As concerns about hundreds of thousands of displaced civilians grew, Israel eased restrictions on Lebanon's blockaded ports to allow aid into the country.

Angry protests condemning Israeli attacks have been held in European cities. London saw the biggest with about 7,000 marchers, according to police.

'More incursions'

Israel's latest aerial attacks focussed on the southern port city of Sidon and the southern suburbs of Beirut, a Hezbollah stronghold, news agencies say.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_israeli_troops_gather/img/laun.jpg (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_israeli_troops_gather/html/1.stm)
Israeli troops gather on the country's northern border
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/inline_dashed_line.gif


Hours earlier, Israel said its forces had driven Hezbollah guerrillas out of the hilltop village of Maroun al-Ras, where six Israeli commandos were killed earlier this week.

The report has not been confirmed independently and Hezbollah's al-Manar TV station reported earlier on Saturday that an epic battle was under way in the village.

According to the BBC's Crispin Thorold in Jerusalem, the village has a strategic value, overlooking several other sites said to have been used as launch pads for Hezbollah rockets.

Hezbollah continued to fire dozens of rockets into Israel on Saturday, hitting the towns of Carmiel, Kiryat Shmona and Nahariya, and wounding several Israelis.

There are substantial numbers of Israeli forces near the border, and military sources suggest that there will be continued incursions in the coming days.

Israel insists it has no plans for a large-scale invasion and its ground forces are only entering Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah hideouts that cannot be attacked from the air.

Fleeing civilians

Israel issued a specific warning to civilians in 14 villages, telling them to leave by Saturday evening.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41916000/gif/_41916290_leb_is_gaz2_launch203.gif
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/inline_dashed_line.gif

Mid-East crisis map (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5177932.stm)


The warnings issued to 14 villages came a day after Israel dropped leaflets warning Lebanese civilians to flee a broad swathe of the south.

The BBC's Martin Asser in the southern city of Tyre described long queues of taxis and cars negotiating bomb-cratered roads and making detours around destroyed bridges.

Many civilians from villages in the region had gathered in the city during the week and are now trying to leave. However, many people say they are reluctant to move without UN protection.

On the 11th day of fighting, Israeli jets knocked out TV and phone masts in the east and north of Lebanon, disrupting broadcasts for Hezbollah's Al-Manar television and the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation.
Israel also briefly occupied the village of Marwahin, but has now withdrawn.

'Terrorist group'

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is travelling to the Middle East on Sunday, as is German Foreign Minister Frank Walter Steinmeier, who helped broker a prisoner exchange between Israel and Hezbollah in 2004.

In his weekly radio address, US President George Bush stressed the need for "confronting the terrorist group that launched the attacks and the nations that support it".

He described Syria as "a primary sponsor" of Hezbollah, and accused Damascus of helping provide the group with Iranian weapons.

His comments followed a report in the New York Times, citing US officials who said the US was rushing a delivery of satellite and laser-guided bombs to Israel.

The crisis was triggered by the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah militants on 12 July.

Israeli government spokesman Avi Pazner told the BBC Israel was not interested in invading, conquering or occupying Lebanon, from where it withdraw troops in 2000.

"We only want to get rid of Hezbollah," he said.
Senior Lebanese officials have warned the country's army will go into battle if Israel invades.

More than 350 Lebanese have been killed in the 11 days of violence, many of them civilians. Thirty-four Israelis have been killed, including 15 civilians killed by rockets fired by Hezbollah into Israel.

BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5206966.stm)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Israel 'presses US on bomb sale'

By Nick Miles
BBC News, Washington
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41919000/jpg/_41919918_pilot-*****-203body.jpg
Israel has been bombing suspected Hezbollah sites in Lebanon

Reports from the US suggest Washington has been asked to speed up a shipment of precision bombs sold as part of a deal with Israel last year.

According to a report in the New York Times, Israel made the request after it began its air assault on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon 12 days ago.
The weapons, including five-tonne laser-guided bombs, are part of a sale signed last year.
Unnamed US officials say the request to speed up delivery is unusual.
The disclosure is likely to anger Arab governments because of the appearance that the United States is actively aiding Israel at such a sensitive time.
Precision-guided missiles are playing a key part in Israel's military strategy, which has included attempts to destroy bunkers it says are used by Hezbollah.
Israel is one of the largest customers for US armaments. It also receives several billion dollars a year in direct and indirect aid from Washington.

BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5207066.stm)

[Snoshi]

Syrian minister of propaganda Mohsen Bilal said that if the IDF troops will invade Lebanon and get close to the Syrian border the Syrian army will not sit down and watch.They will join the lebanese side and fight Israelis.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Lebanon's two fighting forces


By Martin Patience
BBC News, Beirut
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41918000/jpg/_41918370_lebanon_ap203_body.jpg
Hezbollah guerrillas have been firing rockets into northern Israel

Lebanon is a country with two fighting forces - the Lebanese army and Hezbollah's guerrilla outfit.

For now, the Lebanese army has remained in its barracks during the current conflict with Israel.
It is Hezbollah that is launching attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians from the south of Lebanon.
The issue of military strength is a sensitive subject in a country torn apart by 15 years of civil war.
Soldiers are drawn from Lebanon's main religious groups - Shia, Sunni, Druze and Christians - in an effort to make the army a truly national force.
With 38,000 soldiers, it is a small conventional army designed to keep the peace on Lebanese soil.
But it is ill-equipped for the job, says former Lebanese army general Amin Hoteit.

Secretive

The army lacks basic military equipment - such as anti-aircraft missile defences - to fight Israel. The Lebanese air force has no jets and the navy no warships.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41918000/jpg/_41918414_soldier_ap_203body.jpg
Lebanon's army has been watching while the country is being bombed

"The Lebanese army don't have anyone to fight," says Gen Hoteit. "They can't fight the Israeli aircraft in the sky."
With a weak Lebanese army the importance of Hezbollah's military capabilities increases, he adds.
Gen Hoteit describes Hezbollah as "an integral part of Lebanon's defences" although he insists there are no official links between the two fighting forces.
Whereas the Lebanese army is a conventional fighting force, Hezbollah is non-conventional force launching guerrilla raids on Israeli targets.
It is a secretive organisation making it difficult to gauge its strength.
But military analysts believe the organisation has thousands of fighters who are highly trained and well equipped to fight a guerrilla war.

Fighting image

Led by Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah emerged in the early 1980s, following the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif The Lebanese nation privatised the liberation of the south country http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif
Elias Hanna
Former Lebanese general


A group of Shia Muslims clerics decided to form a group of fighters to drive Israeli troops from the south of Lebanon. Israel withdrew its forces in 2000.
It was the impotence of the Lebanese army in the south that bolstered Hezbollah's image as a fighting force.
"The Lebanese nation privatised the liberation of the south," says former Lebanese army general Elias Hanna.
"Hezbollah restored dignity of the Arab world by liberating the south of Lebanon for the first time in our history."
Most Lebanese citizens were thankful that Hezbollah had ended Israel's occupation there. But now some of these civilians believe Hezbollah have pulled them into a war not of their choosing.
They view Hezbollah as Lebanon's "second army", accountable only to its supporters and not the government.
Veiled threat
There have been repeated calls to disarm Hezbollah, including a UN resolution in 2004. But Hezbollah have rejected all such suggestions.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41912000/jpg/_41912284_buildings203_afp.jpg
Some Lebanese blame Hezbollah for the crisis

While the clamour grows ever louder in the international diplomatic arena, Gen Hanna says the Lebanese army would be unwilling to move against the organisation.
Many of the soldiers in the Lebanese army are Shia Muslims, the constituency of Hezbollah.
"How can a Shia soldier go and disarm another Shia who he believes has the right to resist Israel," asks Gen Hanna.
Currently, Israel says it only has Hezbollah in its targets. But the Lebanese government has launched a veiled threat it might start fighting if Israel deploys a large ground force in southern Lebanon.
"We will defend our land until the last soldier, we will pay the price for our land," Lebanese Defence Minister Elias Murr told the BBC. But for now, it is Hezbollah doing Lebanon's fighting.

BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5205930.stm)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Limits of air power lead to ground attacks


By Paul Reynolds
World Affairs correspondent, BBC News website
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http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41915000/jpg/_41915020_israeliltanks_ap203b.jpg
Israel is mobilising army reservists



Israel appears to be preparing to extend its ground operations in southern Lebanon to set up some kind of buffer zone, recalling its invasion of 1978 which took it up to the Litani River some 20 km to the north.

Its need to put in ground forces shows the limitations of air power. Air strikes have been used, in a version of the tactics developed by the US air force in the two Gulf wars, to pound Hezbollah targets in Beirut and closer to Syria - source of Hezbollah's arsenal, according to the Israelis.
The aim has been to hit missiles, firing and storage sites and transport links. The effect has also been to cause civilian casualties and huge damage.
Now warnings are being given to those civilians left in Southern Lebanon to get out, though how they can do so easily and quickly along blown up roads is unclear.
And Human Rights Watch has urged Israel to allow civilians safe passage. Its Middle East director Sarah Leah Whitson said: "Israel should warn people of attacks, but those warnings can't be used to justify harming civilians who remain. Civilians who can't evacuate are still fully protected by international law."

Aims not fulfilled

The prospect of major ground incursions indicates that Israel is some way off its stated aim of trying to destroy Hezbollah's capability.
Nine days after its operations began, it is still fighting just inside Lebanon within sight of its northern border.
On Thursday four soldiers were killed by Hezbollah in an ambush there.
Brigadier-General Alon Friedman told the Israeli paper Maariv: "It's possible that in the coming days our ground operations will increase."
It looks therefore that this conflict will go onto well into next week.

Mountainous region

It is worth knowing something about the ground in Southern Lebanon. This helps explain why infantry troops are invaluable.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41913000/jpg/_41913384_get203bodysoldiers.jpg
Israeli ground troops are pushing further into Lebanon


It is very mountainous and the rock has allowed the formation of innumerable caves in which Hezbollah fighters (and before them Palestinians) can hide.

The irregular terrain is ideal guerrilla country and not easily traversed by Israeli tanks and other armoured forces.
So troops have to get out and fight, which leaves them vulnerable to the firepower and local knowledge of the Lebanese guerrillas. Israel has already taken casualties in the limited fighting that has taken place already.

Hezbollah regrouping

Because of the delay in Israel entering southern Lebanon, Hezbollah forces have had a chance to regroup and re-infiltrate the area to set up positions.
Its main strength might be in missiles but it has fighters as well and their moment might have come. In the meantime, it has presumably moved some of its rockets back and has held others in reserve that could be fired over the top of any buffer zone.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif It's possible that in the coming days our ground operations will increase http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif
Israeli General Friedman


It is also not impossible that elements of the Lebanese army might resist an Israeli invasion, though its forces in the south are extremely limited, only a few hundred.
It is difficult to see how Israel can fulfil its intentions without entering southern Lebanon in some force and some observers had been expecting such a movement before now.

The Litani operation

In 1978, 25,000 Israeli troops moved rapidly about ten kilometres into Lebanon before going onto the Litani River.
Their aim in that invasion was to remove fighters from the PLO. They later largely withdrew their troops and set up a buffer zone (they called it a security zone) and encouraged a local Christian militia to police it.
The plan ended in failure and the Israelis withdrew in 2000, hoping that the Lebanese army would deploy but fearing, as happened, that Hezbollah would take over.
In 1982, Israel went all the way to Beirut.
The obvious question therefore, if it goes for a buffer zone, is - how long will it stay? It is easy enough for the Israelis to get in - they seem prepared to accept losses in this effort - but how quickly would they leave?
They say they do not want to stay but intentions and deeds do not always coincide.
That brings in the diplomacy, which has been ineffective so far.
The Americans are supporting the Israeli demand that there can be no return to the status quo under which Hezbollah watchtowers were overlooking Israel.
That means no ceasefire without a radical shift in the balance of power and influence first. And that means more Israeli attacks. The US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is expected in the region next week, so the ball is beginning to roll, though only slowly.

BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5202752.stm)

[Clearday-TRForce]

Flash


U.S: President George W. Bush called Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Saturday to discuss the Mideast crisis and PKK attacks in their second telephone conversation in three days, and White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said "the president told the prime minister that the United States will work with Turkey to deal with this terrorist threat (by the PKK)."

[janosik]

Jon Snow confronts Dep. Israeli Ambassador on Israeli terror

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS2ESHKhBQY

[Resurrection]

Israel's defense minister calls for NATO force on Lebanon border.

JERUSALEM Israel's defense minister is quoted as saying Israel is willing to accept a temporary international peace force along its border with Lebanon.

Aides to Amir Peretz (ah-MEER' PEHR'-etz) say he thinks any such force should be temporary and preferably headed by NATO. The purpose would be to keep Hezbollah guerrillas away from Israel.

Peretz's reported comments came in a private meeting today with Germany's foreign minister. The Israeli defense chief's office says the goal is to have Lebanon's army deployed along the border but that given how weak that army is, Israel would accept a nultinational force in the meantime.

http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=5185568&nav=8H3x

[Abu_Elvis]

The British Broadcasting Corp. (BBC) has admitted that many of the victims of Israeli retaliation in Lebanon are terrorists and not innocent civilians. A BBC reporter said he saw Hizbullah terrorists using a private home and added, "It is difficult to quantify who is a terrorist and who is a civilian."

Media reports have emphasized that Israeli air strikes have killed more than 350 Lebanese civilians, prompting accusations that the IDF is carrying out "collective punishment" on the country.

---------------

A United Nations observer was seriously wounded in southern Lebanon by Hezbollah fire, a UN spokesman said Sunday.

"One unarmed observer in Lebanon was seriously wounded by small arms fire in the UN position in Maroun al-Ras. He has been evacuated to the nearest hospital in Israel," UNIFIL spokesman Milos Strugar said in a statement.

Strugar added that the observer seems to have been wounded during clashes between Hezbollah and Israel Defense Forces troops.

[Abu_Elvis]

Hezbollah fired 20% of its arsenal, and much more was destroyed...

Defense Minister Amir Peretz told the Cabinet Sunday that Hizbullah terrorists have fired 2,200 rockets on northern Israel. Previously, IDF officers have estimated that the terrorist organization holds about 11,000 rockets. In addition to the missiles it has used in its war against Israel, Hizbullah has lost dozens of Katyusha launchers and a large number of weapons destroyed by Israeli Air Force strikes.

Minister Peretz also said that Hizbullah is the only terrorist organization in the world that possesses ground-to-ground missiles. He added that it also possesses longer range rockets which it has not yet used.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Mid-East faces uncertain future


By Roger Hardy
BBC Middle East Analyst
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif


Diplomats, officials and experts around the world are anxiously debating what the Greater Middle East will look like when this current crisis finally draws to a close.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41916000/jpg/_41916492_karachi2afp203body.jpg
Crises like these often inflame anti-American and anti-Israeli feeling



Will it make it easier or harder to resolve the pressing problems of Palestine and Iraq - and the much bigger battle against Islamic extremism?
The more immediate question is: Who will emerge with what?
Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, says he wants three things: to secure the release of Israeli soldiers, to clear Hezbollah fighters from south Lebanon and to see Hezbollah disarmed and dismantled.
He wants some form of guarantee that Israel will be free from rocket attacks, whether from Gaza or from south Lebanon.
Some believe he would also like to see the collapse of the Hamas-led Palestinian government.

Israel's dilemma

Few experts think Mr Olmert will secure all these goals, even if the fighting continues for some days.
Israel may be able to weaken Hamas and Hezbollah in military terms, but it is unlikely to force them out of business.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif [For Israel] there needs to be in place a Lebanese government and a Palestinian Authority strong enough to prevent rocket or other cross-border attacks. Air strikes coupled with limited military incursions in both territories have made this less, rather than more, likely http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


Both enjoy a significant level of grass-roots support.
Israel's actions may indeed be counter-productive, by boosting support for these groups beyond the immediate circle of their core Islamist constituencies.
Israel's underlying dilemma remains unchanged.
If it does not wish to re-occupy either Gaza or southern Lebanon, then there needs to be in place a Lebanese government and a Palestinian Authority strong enough to prevent rocket or other cross-border attacks.
Air strikes coupled with limited military incursions in both territories have made this less, rather than more, likely.
Mr Olmert needs to emerge from this conflict with something he can call victory.
If he does not, that will weaken his own political position and jeopardise his ambitious plan to withdraw from large parts of the West Bank by 2010.

Underlying problems

It is unlikely this crisis will leave the underlying problems of the Palestinian territories and Lebanon any nearer a solution.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif As Arab rulers are only too well aware, the current conflict has inflamed anti-Israeli and anti-American feeling to