The fate of past Waffen SS from all over Europe

[fantassin]

How are (or were) the former waffen SS from your countries considered since the end of WW2. I think in the Baltic countries some people still hold them in high regards for example.

For example, France had the 33rd SS Division "Charlemagne"; most were killed, some (the 3 that did) getting the Knight's Cross as late as April the 29th 1945 in Berlin. The reminding survivors went to jail or Indochina after the war.

[ALBANIAN]

Half of french fight for nazism.
Maybe all SS were higly considered by frenchs, as they used with the Stranger Legion to kill thousand upon thousand innocent peoples in Indocina and Algeria.

[Stavka]

Sweden had some 100 or so men that volunteered for the Waffen-SS. If my figures arent completely off, about 40% made it back.
A bit put off by the big defeat they werw quite silent and didnt make all that much noise. One or two tried to start semi-nazi parties but that didnt turn out all that great either.
One of these volunteers designed the logo for Falcon, one of swedens biggest producers of bottled drinks, but thats about the extent of their success.

Overall there hasnt been too much talk about them. I had one as a patient and he told me quite a bit on his deathbed. He didnt regret that he had joined, but he regretted some of the things they had done.

[Ichhabe]

There were about 5000 that fought on the German side during WW II. About a 1000 of them got killed.

Most of the survivors were later put on trial and sentenced to about 2-4 years imprisonment.

Some were caught by the Soviets, and did not come home untill 1955. Some died there aswell, since the Soviets did not run holiday camps.

To Stavka: Due to the information I have from the Swedish book "Ragnarök" there were about 200 Swedes, mainly serving in the Waffen SS. This book I will strongly recomend for those intersting in the history of the Scandinavian voulenteers that served in the German forces.

(Svensk TV 1 made a 4 episode documentary about these Swedes some years ago. A very good one, if I may say so.)

This is my speciality field in the WW II-history. Have been collecting books and documentarys on this subject for the last 15 years. Try to get my hands on anything written on this subject.
So to my Danish and Swede neighbours in this forum: please feel free to tip me on any litterature on this subject from your country.

[Stavka]

There were about 5000 that fought on the German side during WW II. About a 1000 of them got killed.

Most of the survivors were later put on trial and sentenced to about 2-4 years imprisonment.

Some were caught by the Soviets, and did not come home untill 1955. Some died there aswell, since the Soviets did not run holiday camps.

To Stavka: Due to the information I have from the Swedish book "Ragnarök" there were about 200 Swedes, mainly serving in the Waffen SS. This book I will strongly recomend for those intersting in the history of the Scandinavian voulenteers that served in the German forces.

(Svensk TV 1 made a 4 episode documentary about these Swedes some years ago. A very good one, if I may say so.)

This is my speciality field in the WW II-history. Have been collecting books and documentarys on this subject for the last 15 years. Try to get my hands on anything written on this subject.
So to my Danish and Swede neighbours in this forum: please feel free to tip me on any litterature on this subject from your country.

Well, my figures were a bit off, but plucked directly from memory it wasnt all that bad.

Rekommenderer till deg Bosse Schöns böker "Svenskarna som slogs för Hitler" og "Där järnkorsen växer".

[mustamato]

Well since Stavka answered for Sweden I can answer for Finland.


"...Where a Finnish SS-man stood, enemy was always defeated."
Order of the day, 11 July 1943
Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler

http://www.feldgrau.com/fin.jpg
Finns of 1.Kp./Finnisches Frw.Bn.d.W-SS at Gross Born Truppenlager, 1941


Finnisches Freiwilligen bataillon der Waffen-SS. Was formed after the Winter
War, the Finns qualities as fighters had been proven. Finns have (and that was
known already back in the days) in their blood a considerable amount of "siberian"
blood, but I guess that didn´t matter, blond and blue eyes as Finns have. The Finns
returned to Finland already in 1943 since the Finnish government didn´t allowe them
to serve longer, they returned and were enlisted in the Finnish army instead.
Finnisches Freiwilligen bataillon der Waffen-SS in the "Wiking division" suffered some
255 KIA and 557 WIA during its time in the Waffen-SS; a very high rate considering
that only some 2000 men served in the battalion.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2130/
Many Finnish SS-pictures

And as for Fantassins question, well I haven´t really noticed much hatred or
anything against these men in Finland, but not much admiration either. Firstly
it would be very tabu, and secondly because Finland and German got in to a war
in 1944-1945, some of the SS-volunteers had to fight Germans in the 20th
Mountain army in Lapland, but now dressed in Finnish uniforms. I think the
feeling in Finland about these men is more like "them volunteering was nothing
political, it was just another step in the fight against Finlands arch enemy, Russia".
Also during the 1st world war Finland had volunteers with the German army, and
many of the SS-volunteers were actually the sons to these soldiers.

[PsihoKeke]

Half of french fight for nazism.
Maybe all SS were higly considered by frenchs, as they used with the Stranger Legion to kill thousand upon thousand innocent peoples in Indocina and Algeria.

21. Waffen Gebirgid Division der SS Skenderbeg. Forgoten part of albanian history?

[He219]

I believe ALBANIAN was referencing the fact that 2,000 Germans who served in the French Foreign Legion during the 'troubles' in Indo-Cina were former Waffen SS soldiers. They joined the Legion following the end of WW2 to escape trial or execution by the Allies or Soviets. They were specifically employed by the French in Battalion strength to use their anti-partisan experience against the Viet Minh.

A book called "Devil's Guard (http://authors.booksunderreview.com/C/Calmann-Levy,_Robert/Calmann-Levy,_Robert_5.html)" by George Elford claims that the French formed a battalion consisting PURELY ex-German soldiers. Nobody cared what they had been, whatever branch. The battalion operated 1243 days destroying 7466 enemy (counted by the dead in the field), 221 Viet Minh bases, camps and storage areas, releasing 311 military and civilian prisoners and marching roughly 11,000 kilometers in the jungles.

The commander, former SS partisanjäger Hans Josef Wagemüller was the so called "kopfjäger" or headhunter. The Viet Minh posted 'wanted posters' with rewards of up to 200,000 piasters for these SS Legionairres.



Look Here (http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=307) and Here (http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/) for listings of Foreign Volunteers in the German Armed Forces ...

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Animation1.gif

[ALBANIAN]

Half of french fight for nazism.
Maybe all SS were higly considered by frenchs, as they used with the Stranger Legion to kill thousand upon thousand innocent peoples in Indocina and Algeria.

21. Waffen Gebirgid Division der SS Skenderbeg. Forgoten part of albanian history?

I know, but it was a unit of 3000 persons, half of them albanians, created at the march of 1945, and nevre fought out of albanian lands (including Kosova), and the most had guard duties.


compare here the serb and albania SS


Alternate Names:
Serbian Volunteer Corps (Srpski Dobrovoljacki Korpus)
Serbian Volunteer Command
Serbisches Freiwilligen Korps


DESCRIPTION
The Serbian Volunteer Corps was military force of the German-controlled puppet state of Serbia formed in 1941. It may have been formed in part due to Nazi HSSPF Dr. Kaltenbrunner's efforts to create more pro-German idgenous forces in the Balkans to fill the vacuum left by the wavering Bulgarians. The Serbian Volunteer Corps fought primarily against Tito's partisans. The Germans considered it one of the few effective Serbian anti-partisan units. The German Army transferred the corps to the Waffen-SS in late 1944, but it is unclear if this was just a administrative change rather than a tactical/operational change.*

* According to Relja Knezevic, the reason that some authors consider SVC a part of the SS is due to the fact that a former "ljoticevac" (meaning: member of SVC) named Strahinja Janjic formed something that was called Serbian Volunteer Corps of the SS. It was, however, little more than a group of a few thugs. Janjic's idea was to form a Serbian division for the eastern front (because the SVC did not want to go) but he was unsuccessful. The Serbian Volunteer Corps of the SS held (operated from?) a prison in Belgrade where they tortured people, often their former comrades from the SVC.


COMMANDERS
General Kosta Musicki 12/1944?


COMPOSITION
5 Regiments of 1,200 men each
Artillery Battalion of 500 men

Alternate Names:
21st Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS Skanderbeg (alban. Nr. 1)


DESCRIPTION
Short-lived unit of Kosovo Albanian Waffen-SS volunteers of minimal combat value, although elements of the division did fight rear-guard actions to allow for the 1944 German retreat from the Balkan peninsula.


COMMANDERS
Brigadeführer August Schmidhuber 5/1944 - 8/1944
SS-Obersturmbannführer Graaf 8/1944 - 10/1944


COMPOSITION
Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Regt. 50
Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Regt. 51
Waffen-Gebirgs Artillerie Regiment 21
SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 21 SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 21
SS-Pionier-Bataillon 21
SS-Versorgüngs-Abteilung 21
SS-Gebirgs-Nachrichten-Abteilung 21
SS-Sanitäts-Abteilung 21

[rom2]

there are simple things to point about SS :
in the whole WW2 700 000 men have wear the SS uniform , 300 000 were killed ( estimation) .among the total (700 000 )SS there were :
4000 finnish
6000 danish
10 000 from norway
10 000 frenCH
10 000 italian
100 british
and many others (uzbeks , indians , swedish ...)

actually there have been more nationality under the uniform of the SS than the UN troops now......... that makes the SS the troop composed with the highest number of nationality ever made in the world .... interesting ?

[Haiw]

Yeah well I suppose every occupied country had some nutbusters joining the Waffen SS... There were some here as well, and if I remember correctly most served a couple of years in jail after they came back. Don't know about any numbers.

[csqnsas]

What about the Waloon devision.?

great book to read about the Eastern front.

[Nite]

To Stavka: Due to the information I have from the Swedish book "Ragnarök" there were about 200 Swedes, mainly serving in the Waffen SS. This book I will strongly recomend for those intersting in the history of the Scandinavian voulenteers that served in the German forces.

Is this book available in english ?

[He219]

Yeah well I suppose every occupied country had some nutbusters joining the Waffen SS... There were some here as well, and if I remember correctly most served a couple of years in jail after they came back. Don't know about any numbers.

There are stories about a mixed unit of former Dutch Volunteers in the German Army (imprisoned at the end of the War in the NL) that were offered a pardon in fighting alongside the UN contingent in Korea. Is there any thruth to this?

Related:
28th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier Division Wallonien (http://www.wssob.com/028divwal.html#) (Belgian)

[W(M)D]

...........
100 british
...........


Officially that figure for the British Legion was less then 30, where are your figures from?
They also did not (unlike other foreign SS formations) cover themselves in glory.

[OldRecon]

There were about 5000 that fought on the German side during WW II. About a 1000 of them got killed.

Most of the survivors were later put on trial and sentenced to about 2-4 years imprisonment.

Some were caught by the Soviets, and did not come home untill 1955. Some died there aswell, since the Soviets did not run holiday camps.

To Stavka: Due to the information I have from the Swedish book "Ragnarök" there were about 200 Swedes, mainly serving in the Waffen SS. This book I will strongly recomend for those intersting in the history of the Scandinavian voulenteers that served in the German forces.

(Svensk TV 1 made a 4 episode documentary about these Swedes some years ago. A very good one, if I may say so.)

This is my speciality field in the WW II-history. Have been collecting books and documentarys on this subject for the last 15 years. Try to get my hands on anything written on this subject.
So to my Danish and Swede neighbours in this forum: please feel free to tip me on any litterature on this subject from your country.

2 other books on the subject I'm shure you have read allready:

Svenskarna som stred för Hitler / Bosse Schön. - ISBN: 91-7588-207-8.

And there's a Danish book I've seen in some public library about a Danish physician serving as medic with then SS Viking division during the Tscherkassy/Korsun pocket battles.

After the war several teachers who had either worked for the Germans as soldiers or agents/translators with the German security services, or who had othervise openly displayed nazi sympaties during the war, were sentenced to a sort of internal exile. Being forced to work as teachers in parts of Norway where there was a shortage of teachers.
Had 2 such teachers during my high school years. One of whom on one occasion was hailed as "the idiot of the year" by a national newspaper in Norway, for expressing sympathy with the views of a certain controversial clerical figure about the moral benefits of beating kids, by calling in at a then national radio show and stating: "I mostly aggree with that priest, I've myself been beaten as a kid, and have in turn beaten my own kids on occasion, and have only positive experiences from it". rofl
Though he never spoke about his experiences during the war, I think it left a deep impression on him, because he's the only person I know of who have been both outspokenly racist on one side and just as outspokenly anti-war/pacifist on the other.
Also know the case of another "front-fighter" (our local term for a Norwegian national who served for the German armed forces on the Eastern front) who entered the Waffen SS for service on the Eastern front, after he was caught for stealing money from the welfare fund of the workers union (some time before they were closed by the nazis) at a local factory.

[German_American]

Did any Americans serve with the SS?

[ALBANIAN]

only one or two.

[Ichhabe]

To Stavka: Due to the information I have from the Swedish book "Ragnarök" there were about 200 Swedes, mainly serving in the Waffen SS. This book I will strongly recomend for those intersting in the history of the Scandinavian voulenteers that served in the German forces.

Is this book available in english ?

Not to my knowldege.

It is published by B.E.G.B/Nordland Arkiv.

First printing 1945.
Second printing 1996.

Unfortunatly the book does not have a ISBN.

[SFontaine]

I love how some people in this thread are actually bragging about their countries contribution to the SS.

[Ichhabe]

I love how some people in this thread are actually bragging about their countries contribution to the SS.

Eeeeeeh???!?!?!????!!

Are we reading the same thread?

Cant see that anyone in here have bragged.

[rom2]

you have to read otto skorzeny : commando of the reich (it's something like that )
but for me , the best book of estern front is : guy sajer : the forgotten soldier (i dont if it has been translated in another language than french )
it's a french (from Alsace ) who has been involved in the Gross Deustchland from 42 to 45

also , read hans ulrich Rudel

and gustav kageneck : the war on the east , lieutnant of panzers

[Haiw]

Yeah well I suppose every occupied country had some nutbusters joining the Waffen SS... There were some here as well, and if I remember correctly most served a couple of years in jail after they came back. Don't know about any numbers.

There are stories about a mixed unit of former Dutch Volunteers in the German Army (imprisoned at the end of the War in the NL) that were offered a pardon in fighting alongside the UN contingent in Korea. Is there any thruth to this?

Related:
28th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier Division Wallonien (http://www.wssob.com/028divwal.html#) (Belgian)
I remember reading about it a couple of times yes. It said that volunteering for Korea could pretty much get you a get outta Nazi-jail free card. Don't know how much of that was true though. I'll try and dig something up.

[Haiw]

Hmm, something I just found. It said that even though most only served a couple of years in jail (where they didn't exactely get the 'best treatment'), and after that they were set free. However, they lost their Dutch citizenship, which means you're still pretty much ****ed. By fighting in Korea for the UN you were apparently able to regain your citizenship.

[Garibaldi]

Nazis exploited national or regional pride, fear or hate to communism and ethnic divisions to raise SS units in every occupied or allied country.
There were divisions of French, Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, Hungarian, Croatian, and many other origins.
You could take a look at the history of SS foreign volunteer divisions here:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/3125/kgc/waffen-ss/vol-div.html
Your wellcome.

[Stavka]

I love how some people in this thread are actually bragging about their countries contribution to the SS.

Bragging? If answering to a qustion is the equivalent of bragging, i dont know how you get by in life. But you didnt mean me i take it?

[Haiw]

Nazis exploited national or regional pride, fear or hate to communism and ethnic divisions to raise SS units in every occupied or allied country.
There were divisions of French, Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, Hungarian, Croatian, and many other origins.
You could take a look at the history of SS foreign volunteer divisions here:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/3125/kgc/waffen-ss/vol-div.html
Your wellcome.
True...most people (at least here in the Netherlands) joined the Waffen-SS 'to fight the red danger in the east' (communism).

[Garibaldi]

Scandinavian and Baltic countries were the ones that most contribuited (in numbers) to the foreign SS divisions.
There were cultural and political reasons for that: the rethoric of the german government regarding nordic myths (nibelungs, valkyries et al) was very keen to them. Also, they considered themselves "germanic" people and had close historical ties with Germany. On the political side, they felt helpless against the "red menace" of the Soviet Union, a state that had already seized the Baltic states and anexed parts of Finland. So, for many danes and norwegians in 1940-41 (remember that by that time Nazi attrocities were virtually unknown or were regarded as propaganda), an invasion from Germany was something bad, but infinitely better than being overrun by the Soviet Union.
Regarding the Baltic states, they were incorporated by force into the Soviet Union just a few years before 1941. So in many ways the germans were seen as liberators of these "germanic people of the baltic" from the hands of the reds.
Many latvians, stonian and lithuanian joined the Whermacht in earlier stages of the war, and the SS later.

[Threelions]

There have been a couple glancing references to the great failure that was the "British Free-corps" . If anyone wants a fascinating read about a very obscure part of WWII history i recommend reading "Renegades" by Adrian Weales. It is the most thorough research done on this unit. Also if youcan find it there is a book called "i killed to live" it is the story of one of the members of the BFC who was caught by the russians and spent 7 years in the Gulags.

Anouther amazing character from this piece of wwII history is aman called Subhas Chander Bose. Bose is the chap who got the germans to take an Indian Regiment into the SS.. Very Strange.

Cheers,
Paul

[Threelions]

Oh, i guess i could write something on topic as well. As far as members of the Bristish Free corps go after the war. Most of them got prison sentences with only a few heading to the gallows. Thomas cooper who had been a member of the SS since the beging of the war, and claimed to have killed hundereds of Jews in Warsaw and russia is somewhere in Japan now. There was a Namibian and a Englishmen (might be wrong) who fought on the eastern front with the Liebestandarte HiWis and were both decorate soilders. Neither of them got any punishment. Eric pleasant as i already mentioned wound up in the Gulags after he was found several months after the war working as a circus strong man in eastern germany. He claims to have been in Berlin during the siege but hid in the sewers. Thats all i can remember off the top of my head. I will flip through Renegades and provide more info if any wants it.

Cheers,
Paul

[Kitsune]

on the eastern front with the Liebestandarte HiWis


The name of the 1st Waffen SS Division was :"Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"..."Liebesstandarte" would be something different.

[Threelions]

on the eastern front with the Liebestandarte HiWis


The name of the 1st Waffen SS Division was :"Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"..."Liebesstandarte" would be something different.

OOps. Thats what happens when im digging stuff straight out of the old brain. LOL!!

Cheers

[volfram]

on the eastern front with the Liebestandarte HiWis


The name of the 1st Waffen SS Division was :"Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"..."Liebesstandarte" would be something different.
To be precise the name wasL eibstandarte ss adolf hitler.

[volfram]

Woops,space in wrong place,leibstandarte ss adolf hitler.

[intrinsic]

Lets face it, whatever faults they had they are still the greatest fighting formation the world has ever seen-Bar none

xxx

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

http://www.wssob.com/029divrus.html
Has lots of info on WSS, battles, nationalities, atrocities, standars etc.

[Haiw]

on the eastern front with the Liebestandarte HiWis


The name of the 1st Waffen SS Division was :"Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"..."Liebesstandarte" would be something different.
:lol:
Rather painfull mistake... ;)

[Ichhabe]

on the eastern front with the Liebestandarte HiWis


The name of the 1st Waffen SS Division was :"Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"..."Liebesstandarte" would be something different.
:lol:
Rather painfull mistake... ;)

It hurts when I watch Discovery Channel and the narrator and every English speaking person try to ****ounce Leibstandarte. 100% of them says "Liebstandarte".
It hurts. Stop it. Edit it. Fix it.

[Haiw]

Yeah, English people trying to ****ounce Germanic languages = butchered language. Always great fun in Market Garden documentaries when they can't ****ounce even a single Dutch placename the way it should be ****ounced... :roll:

[Hullebullen]

To Stavka: Due to the information I have from the Swedish book "Ragnarök" there were about 200 Swedes, mainly serving in the Waffen SS. This book I will strongly recomend for those intersting in the history of the Scandinavian voulenteers that served in the German forces.

Is this book available in english ?

Not to my knowldege.

It is published by B.E.G.B/Nordland Arkiv.

First printing 1945.
Second printing 1996.

Unfortunatly the book does not have a ISBN.

By buying this book from Nordland you are sponsoring Neonazism. The properties of this book was stolen by Nordland from the authors Wallin and Hillblad. Nordland is a distributor of Neonazi propaganda and in my opinion if you can't find a copy of the original, leave it be.

[Threelions]

Yeah, English people trying to ****ounce Germanic languages = butchered language.

Funny comment considering English is a germanic language....

Cheers

[Haiw]

It used to be of old, but the ****oncuation of English changed too much to consider it a 'real' Germanic language nowadays. Basically it's from Germanic descent but has just grown away from it. But that's my two cents.

[Threelions]

Anthropologically and lingusticly English is a germanic language. English is still closer to germanic languages then any other lingustic branch, even in its modern form.

Cheers,
Paul

[Haiw]

Anthropologically and lingusticly English is a germanic language. English is still closer to germanic languages then any other lingustic branch, even in its modern form.

Cheers,
Paul
True... let's keep it at this; it's a language with Germanic roots, pretty much Germanic grammar and sentence flow, but no Germanic ****oncuation (unlike the old-English).

[Macs.]

Like "Kindergarten" or "Poltergeist"... :lol:

[foxtrot023]

Anthropologically and lingusticly English is a germanic language. English is still closer to germanic languages then any other lingustic branch, even in its modern form.

Cheers,
Paul

True, however there is a lot of French-Latin in it via the normans.

Regards

[wiking]

I saw a Norwegian documentary about one of the Norwegians who fought, It was on NRK1 by the way, and the story seemed actually quite interesting. I really have great respect for all who fought in ww2 nomather what side they were on. And to point out, the people who volunteered for the Germans did not voluteere for the SS, but they couldn't join regular army since you had to be a citizen of Germany to join regular army.

[wiking]

I love how some people in this thread are actually bragging about their countries contribution to the SS.

Who the hell is doing that.

[tony6]

Yeah well I suppose every occupied country had some nutbusters joining the Waffen SS...
Not exactly my dear friend :D
(Poland was deffinately "occupied")