Swedish Homeguard in pictures

[mustamato]

Well the Swedish Homeguard, part of the army. Local defence batallions,
in case of war their strength would probably be around 100.000 or so. But
now it´s more like 50.000 or so (hm?). They are armed with AK4´s as their
personal weapon, and most of them are kept in the homes, as the uniform,
helmet and stuff like that. Heavier stuff like MG´s etc is however stored in the
regiments usually. The quality of the units seems to be very different, probably
much depending on the local commander. Some of them consists of "only" old farts,
while other Homeguard units seems to be young and highly motivated. Participation
is voluntary, but each soldier must train atleast 20 hours each year.

All Homeguard soldiers must have done their conscript service, nowadays
there is also arranged training especially for them, in example for women
or immigrants or other that are interested in joining.

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/about/historia.gif
Started out as a voluntary organization amongst shooting clubs
during world war 2

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/about/pluton.jpg
Typical Homeguard platoon organization

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/about/800-FBB0135670071.jpg
Ksp 58B, probably guarding some entrance to a area they are protecting,
could be a storage, factory or something like that

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/about/800-0191_IMG.jpg
Homeguard sharpshooter (not sniper), armed with a AK4 OR, or a G3 with
a x4 scope, the Homeguard will also be issed Psg 90 (Accuracy International AW)

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/about/800-jas-hv.jpg
Homeguard soldiers guarding a Gripen at a dispersed road base

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/vesper_99/Vesper6.jpg
The Homeguard is often representing the military in many places during
events of all kinds

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/nationaldag_2000/2-33.jpg
Swedish national day, 2000

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/nationaldag_2000/2-36.jpg
Homeguard dog, these dogs are the private property of the various soldiers

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/nationaldag_2000/1-29.jpg
... well they are not all very young people, and some people call the Homeguard
"prostate guerilla", hm

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/srv_001028/IMG_1269.jpg
The Homeguard also has a important role in helping the society in crisis,
and also trains for this...

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/srv_001028/IMG_1223.jpg
... training exercise, a couple of years ago there was a accident in the small
Swedish town of Kävlinge, when a train car with chemichals started to leak,
the whole town was evacuated, and the Homeguard guarded the town to stop it
from being looted etc, there are always idiots that use situations like that to their
advantage

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-1-16a.jpg

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-1-25a.jpg

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-2-02.jpg

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-2-08.jpg

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/hogvakten_2002/Rikshvch_inspekterar_post_6-800.jpg
Homeguard at the royal castle in Stockholm

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/sak_skydd_tpt/DSCN0274_800.jpg
Homeguard soldiers training for escort duties (of example weapons, VIP´s etc)

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/peka.jpg
The equipment of the Swedish Homeguard is fairly good nowadays, here with newly issued battle vests for example, but still those AK4´s. Hm.

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/hand.jpg

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/klippa.jpg
Marine Homeguard and a old assault boat (used as a patrol boat)

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/hvrekry2.gif
Recruiting new members

http://www.mds.mil.se/bohusdalgruppen/images/local/807bild56web.jpg
Happy faces when a Combat boat 90 is presented to the Homeguard to
be used as a patrol boat

http://www.mds.mil.se/norrasmalandsgruppen/images/local/04-03-13_pansarskottskytt.jpg
Pansarskott m/86, or AT-4

http://www.mds.mil.se/norrasmalandsgruppen/images/local/04-03-13ra180.jpg
Training on Radio 180

http://www.mds.mil.se/kronobergsgruppen/images/local/2inskjutning.jpg
AK4B (Aimpoint), all Homeguard AK4´s will get a Aimpoint

http://www.mdn.mil.se/harnosandsgruppen/images/local/img_0010.jpg
Homeguard youth on winter training

http://www.mdn.mil.se/harnosandsgruppen/images/local/img_0018.jpg
Homeguard youth again (I think Vacon is a Swedish Homeguard youth by the way

[Dalleer]

Now this is absolutely freakin' great choice of pictures and info today, Mr Mustamato.

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/about/800-FBB0135670071.jpg

Hmm, as you said the equipment is old but I must admit that this is a rather interesting choice of helmet-covers (to tell you the truth I've got one of those strange covers myself and I can't seem to fit it around on any of the helmets on my collection. What a weird piece of equipment that thing is...)

http://www.mdg.mil.se/gotlandsgruppen/images/local/hand.jpg

Hmm, are they trying to fit the dog on the motorcycle as well?

http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-2-08.jpg

You can call these guys "prostate guerilla" all you want, but I'd say that this picture gives a highly professional image of them.


Finally, let me begin my speech by saying that "I wish we'd have something similar back here so I could join and really use my time more effectively...etc. ". I really envy the Swedish because of this "ability" they have in their armed forces and I really think that something like this in Finland would work great as well.

I mean, the Norwegians have something similar to "Hemvärnet" as well, don't they?

I want a Finnish "Hemvärnet", now!!

[AK-Lover]

Do you get to keep you're rifle at home? AT4? :P

[Salty Dog]

is this basically the same idea as the u.s. national guard?

[springwheat]

The guy on the right fighting the fire: are his pants split? :oops:

[mustamato]

I want a Finnish "Hemvärnet", now!!

As I´ve understood it you will get one, or sort of, it´s kind of difficult to
read between the lines of all the official bull**** the high brass are saying,
but for example this:

http://www.mil.fi/paaesikunta/tiedotteet/377.dsp

"Paikallisjoukot ovat nopeasti käytettävissä alueiden valvontaan ja
kohteiden suojaamiseen koko valtakunnan alueella Hangosta Utsjoelle.
Reserviläisten valmiutta vapaaehtoiseen toimintaan ja heidän hyvää
paikallistuntemustaan tulisikin voida hyödyntää nykyistä paremmin
myös normaaliaikojen virka-aputehtävissä."

And you know, the Finnish defence forces will shrink to 350.000 soldiers to
2008, this doesn´t really affect the brigades, but the local defence soldiers,
they are as I´ve understood it considerably re-organized. I see a finnish
Kotijoukot(?) forming here.

And they seem to be more credible than the Hemvärnet, organized as a infantry
batallion basically with heavy mortars and so forth. Hemvärnet doesn´t even have
vehicles, or light mortars. :oops:


Do you get to keep you're rifle at home? AT4?

Well the AK4 (Swedish-made G3 that is) yes. But nowadays there is a "lock"
that is kept in them, if someone steals the weapon and tries to get it out without
using the key, it gets stuck, and well, in theory it destroys the weapon.

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_ak4_las.jpg


is this basically the same idea as the u.s. national guard?

Well they are volunteers and train on Sundays yeah, but the similarities end
there, our Homeguard batallions is LIGHT local defence troops, they don´t even have
vehicles, not to mention tanks, artillery and other stuff your NG has.


The guy on the right fighting the fire: are his pants split? :oops:

Looks like a water bottle to me.

[kinghk]

I mean, the Norwegians have something similar to "Hemvärnet" as well, don't they?

I want a Finnish "Hemvärnet", now!!

Yup.

http://www.mil.no/hv

Looks quite similar to Hemvärnet.

[Dalleer]

I want a Finnish "Hemvärnet", now!!

As I´ve understood it you will get one, or sort of, it´s kind of difficult to
read between the lines of all the official bull**** the high brass are saying,
but for example this:

http://www.mil.fi/paaesikunta/tiedotteet/377.dsp

"Paikallisjoukot ovat nopeasti käytettävissä alueiden valvontaan ja
kohteiden suojaamiseen koko valtakunnan alueella Hangosta Utsjoelle.
Reserviläisten valmiutta vapaaehtoiseen toimintaan ja heidän hyvää
paikallistuntemustaan tulisikin voida hyödyntää nykyistä paremmin
myös normaaliaikojen virka-aputehtävissä."

And you know, the Finnish defence forces will shrink to 350.000 soldiers to
2008, this doesn´t really affect the brigades, but the local defence soldiers,
they are as I´ve understood it considerably re-organized. I see a finnish
Kotijoukot(?) forming here.

Yeah, I've heard of similar rumours about a possible "Kotijoukot"-project around here as well, but we'll see just how well they'll be armed and what sorts of equipment the defence forces will give to their disposal.

Afterall, I'd think that all of the more "serious" members would consider on buying their own gear so that no metal helmets and M/62 BDU's get mixed in there anymore.

Also I would like to think that a "home guard" for Finland would be exceptionally useful for home-defence since we will most undoubtebly be plagued by similar problems as looting etc. in case of a major crisis.

Btw, doesn't "Maakuntajoukot" be something of an to-be attempt of a "Finnish Hemvärnet" as well?

[RSK]

Great Pics!

The more and more that I see that cam the more I like it!

[anv2]

And you know, the Finnish defence forces will shrink to 350.000 soldiers to
2008, this doesn´t really affect the brigades, but the local defence soldiers,
they are as I´ve understood it considerably re-organized. I see a finnish
Kotijoukot(?) forming here.


The Finnish military certainly wants to form some kind of homeguard. However, there's a danger that such force could be labeled as the new "suojeluskunta" (old Finnish homeguard active during 1917-1944 period, shutdown as part of the peace treaty with the Soviet Union for being a military and political threat to the soviets) , which would create political problems. After the size of the the Finnish defence is forces is decreased, it'll probably be easier to justify the need for homeguard (kodinturvajoukot), though.

[kinghk]

is this basically the same idea as the u.s. national guard?

No, it is not a military reserve like the National Guard is.

[Swedish_Marine]

In the Swedish homeguard there are special platoons organised, called Insatsplutoner ( Rapid response-platoons ) which are to be called up first in case of emergencies or war. The regular homeguard has to train for 20 hours per year. These platoons has to fulfill 60 hours per year. I am part of one of these platoons myself, and it consists mainly of former Rangers, Marines and Infantrymen. The soldiers in these platoons are generally more motivated than the soldiers ( or old farts ) in the regular platoons

[mustamato]

It´s funny how Finland always does opposite to the other Nordic counries
when it comes to military matters. I saw on Danish TV yesterday, they
are practically scrapping their Homeguard (created in 1949 I think it
was). According to a opinion poll most Danes wouldn´t give a fokk if it
dissapeared either, or as one old fart put it "the only time I see them is
on markets when they clown around in the uniforms and cost money".
But I guess they feel quite comfortable there when being friends with
Germany nowadays. The Swedish Homeguard is in danger as well if the
proposed defence cuts will be massive (depends a bit on how much
influence the greens and leftists get).

Ah yes to you Finnish guys, here it is (and a little translation by me for
you non-Finns here):

http://www.mil.fi/paaesikunta/tiedotteet/282.dsp


"Pääesikunnan asettama työryhmä esittää maakuntajoukkojen
perustamista alueellisen puolustuksen osaksi ja kriisivalmiuden
tehostamiseksi normaali- ja poikkeusoloissa. Maakuntajoukot
koostuisivat noin 50 000 ? 100 000 pääasiassa sitoutumishalukkaasta
reserviläisestä. Toteutuessaan järjestelmä alkaisi toimia vuoden 2008
alusta..."

"The HQ´s working group(?) has proposed the creation of a "military command
troops", to local defence, and crisis management, to function in normal and special
circumstances. These "military command troops" (Maakuntajoukot) would consist of
50.000-100.000 mainly volunteer reservists. If created the organization could start
in the early 2008."

Oh and Dalleer, don´t expect any m/05 and RK 95´s. But I think that kevlar
hats and m/91´s can be expected though. And also during these reserve exercises
as I´ve understood it Finnish reservists can use their use their own stuff, as m/91´s
and so forth they have bought. So in worst case the soldier can just buy it.

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ressu2001/get2data.php3?id=5
... I can almost guess that these m/91 is the private property of these
guys in example, (pic from Ressu 2001), note the colour difference in the
m/91´s on the photo.

[ALBANIAN]

What hell of gun is the one keept by the forth from left?
It seems to be a sten.


http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-2-08.jpg

[mustamato]

What hell of gun is the one keept by the forth from left?
It seems to be a sten.


http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-2-08.jpg

Haha! Well almost, it´s a swedish K-pist m/45B, it was actually influenced by
the Sten so you are not too incorrect. A extremely cheap ($4) and mass-produced
submachine gun for the Swedish army. It´s however being phased out now.
In contrast to the Sten this baby doesn´t jam.

http://www.bellum.nu/bow/wm/CGm45B.jpg

http://www.bellum.nu/bow/wm/CGm45B_fieldstriped.jpg

[Stavka]

Nop, no Sten. Thats a "Swedish K" K-pist m/45. Really old, but f00kin good fun to shoot it out with. Reliable, decently accurate for an SMG.
Quite the primitive construction and unfortunately being discontinued... :( :(

[ALBANIAN]

What hell of gun is the one keept by the forth from left?
It seems to be a sten.


http://www.hemvarnet.se/lund_hvbat/reportage/insats_010408/800-010408-2-08.jpg

Haha! Well almost, it´s a swedish K-pist m/45B, it was actually influenced by
the Sten so you are not too incorrect. A extremely cheap ($4) and mass-produced
submachine gun for the Swedish army. It´s however being phased out now.
In contrast to the Sten this baby doesn´t jam.

http://www.bellum.nu/bow/wm/CGm45B.jpg

http://www.bellum.nu/bow/wm/CGm45B_fieldstriped.jpg

****. i forgive! You are right, it's a great gun, it was used by us special forces in vietnam.

[dumdidum]

Acctually the K-pist m/45B used by the US were license-produced in America under another name, but I cant remeber what it was.

[mustamato]

Acctually the K-pist m/45B used by the US were license-produced in America under another name, but I cant remeber what it was.

Nah, S&W 76 was a further development, note the safety for example,
the "swedish K" was indeed used in Vietnam, amongst other by the
legendary Finn Lauri Törni that was in US SF in Vietnam.

http://www.thesupplybunker.net/pictures/weapons/s_w_m76_2.jpg
S&W 76 aka MK 760 (different manufacturer)

Then there is also this thingie called "Stemple" in US, in .45 ACP. Looks like
they are build in some ones garage:

http://www.brpguns.com/images/stemplemark12.jpg
Stemple

[Parzival]

Acctually the K-pist m/45B used by the US were license-produced in America under another name, but I cant remeber what it was.

Nah, S&W 76 was a further development, note the safety for example,
the "swedish K" was indeed used in Vietnam, amongst other by the
legendary Finn Lauri Törni that was in US SF in Vietnam.

http://www.thesupplybunker.net/pictures/weapons/s_w_m76_2.jpg
S&W 76 aka MK 760 (different manufacturer)

Then there is also this thingie called "Stemple" in US, in .45 ACP. Looks like
they are build in some ones garage:

http://www.brpguns.com/images/stemplemark12.jpg
StempleBut the K-pist M/45b is a little bit more effective than the S&W 76?

[Stavka]

But the K-pist M/45b is a little bit more effective than the S&W 76?

I think any differences are only marginal. Its the ammo we supplied that gave the swedsih K its great rep.

[M203]

But the K-pist M/45b is a little bit more effective than the S&W 76?

Define effective...

[Kampfhamster]

Well the Swedish Homeguard, part of the army. Local defence batallions,
in case of war their strength would probably be around 100.000 or so. But
now it´s more like 50.000 or so (hm?). They are armed with AK4´s as their
personal weapon, and most of them are kept in the homes, as the uniform,
helmet and stuff like that. Heavier stuff like MG´s etc is however stored in the
regiments usually. The quality of the units seems to be very different, probably
much depending on the local commander. Some of them consists of "only" old farts,
while other Homeguard units seems to be young and highly motivated. Participation
is voluntary, but each soldier must train atleast 20 hours each year.

All Homeguard soldiers must have done their conscript service, nowadays
there is also arranged training especially for them, in example for women
or immigrants or other that are interested in joining.



Sounds like the system of the Swiss army.

[Saranof]

It's nice to see the swedish army for a change. Mostly all you see of them is in the paper, about the cutdowns :(
And at the nearby base, where I use thier gym :)

[Dalleer]

Oh and Dalleer, don´t expect any m/05 and RK 95´s. But I think that kevlar
hats and m/91´s can be expected though. And also during these reserve exercises
as I´ve understood it Finnish reservists can use their use their own stuff, as m/91´s
and so forth they have bought. So in worst case the soldier can just buy it.


http://tietokannat.mil.fi/ressu2001/get2data.php3?id=5
... I can almost guess that these m/91 is the private property of these
guys in example, (pic from Ressu 2001), note the colour difference in the
m/91´s on the photo.

Agreed, now what I'm thinking of as well is that the "Finn homeguard" buys their own gear as well. So basically the most active reservists would already have the M/91's and needed equipment hanging on their drawers if needed.

And I think that "you buy your own gear but older stuff is still available"-system works great anyhow, so why not integrate it to the "Finn homeguard" apparatus as well?

Secondly, since we got talking about the future equipment of the "Finn hemvärnet" I must say that if the M/05's ever get approved then they will most certainly be available for sale in the civilian market as well sooner or later.

Now the difference with these two M/91 BDU in the picture is indeed quite "interesting" with the one having the "darker colors" obviously being manufactured by Maanpuolustusyhtiö and the other one being the official model.

However, the colors on the MPY-model will certainly degrade to a similar "worn out" look when you wash it with regular "washing machine liquids" that have the "valkaisuaineet" (still searching for an English substitute) included in them.

So don't worry, the MPY-M/91 will look like a copy only for as long as you let it look new, after washing it a few times with the "wrong" washing powder then it will blend in quite well.

Btw, I don't even own a M/91 yet ??

[mustamato]

However, the colors on the MPY-model will certainly degrade to a similar "worn out" look when you wash it with regular "washing machine liquids" that have the "valkaisuaineet" (still searching for an English substitute) included in them.

Yeah, I don´t even have a m/62 in my collection yet, but it will come, it will
come. As the m/91, when I buy one I think i´ll buy a used one, so that it doesn´t
have that "directly from mpyhtiö and not even used once"-look on it.

I think the "soldier can buy better stuff if they want"-system is good if there
is better stuff to buy. In the Swedish Homeguard it´s often so that it´s not alloved
to use equipment without that holy "M-number", so if you can get a new battlevest
from somewhere, then it´s ok, but since it´s not sold, it´s impossible. Now many
instead buy a modified copy of it. It´s bizarre that real soldiers must have issued crap
from the 80´s while collectors, airsofters or whatever can buy the best equipment
available if they just can afford it. Me thinks that they also should allow the factory
to sell the real issued version as well. Or they can sell them at the regiment
to soldiers that must prove that they are soldiers, or part of the Homeguard etc.

http://www.recon.se/stridsvast_ny/stridvast_2003/Recon%20_stridsvast_ex%202003_liten.jpg
Civilian (and slightly modified) copy of the Swedish battle-vest,
without the M-number so it´s not allowed to be worn by Swedish
military personell, I know that many in the Homeguard ignore that
anyway "when they are out in the forest", and in case of war they
would definitively fokk the regulations and use it probably.

http://www.recon.se/stridsvast_ny/stridvast_2003/FMV_stridsvast_2000_liten.jpg
Real thing, government issue Stridsväst 2000, the problem
is that they are not issued to all soldiers, and most people in
the Homeguard doesn´t have them, and won´t get them for
years.

http://www.hemvarnet.se/_common/utrustning/stridsbalte.jpg
Hm what most Homeguard soldiers have. Piece of ****

[Truthsayer]

Actually, my little brother worked as an instructor at one regiment in middle-part of Sweden and he always used his Blackhawk-taylored vest.

Holding 12 mags, camelback and other equipment it was both very usefull and...well, blackhawk makes kickass vests.

None of the other officers said anything. The only one that would care is the "överste" (don't remember the equal rank in american army) or there around. I.e. the pencil-pushers that never get around in the field. Besides, being able to carry an KSP58 AND his normal AK5 and all the mags sure made any recruits shut up. ;)

[mustamato]

Actually, my little brother worked as an instructor at one regiment in middle-part of Sweden and he always used his Blackhawk-taylored vest.

Holding 12 mags, camelback and other equipment it was both very usefull and...well, blackhawk makes kickass vests.

None of the other officers said anything. The only one that would care is the "överste" (don't remember the equal rank in american army) or there around. I.e. the pencil-pushers that never get around in the field. Besides, being able to carry an KSP58 AND his normal AK5 and all the mags sure made any recruits shut up. ;)

Yeah, the guards at some regiments seems to have (or had before Stridsväst 2000)
Blackhawk vests as well. I think it´s quite OK if the commander (överste= colonel)
approves it, but they often don´t so the soldiers use them anyway. Homeguard
soldiers that is, I don´t think any conscript would dare to show up with anything other
than the issued stuff.

http://www.k4.mil.se/images/local/inbrytning_rum.jpg
Old picture of guards at K4 with Blackhawk, they probably use the Stridsväst 2000 now...

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_ak5_vapenlampa2.jpg
F10 guard (when that regiment was still around) with a special body
armour, can´t bee seen so good at the pic but there is pouches on it as
well where they kept their magazines and so forth, I have a buddy that
was guard there and had that vest

I guess the pencil-pushers at the HQ has a keyword: uniformity. That´s why
they rather see soldiers in webbing from the 60´s than some soldiers with the
best there is, that they have bought with their own money.

[Dalleer]

Yeah, I don´t even have a m/62 in my collection yet, but it will come, it will
come. As the m/91, when I buy one I think i´ll buy a used one, so that it doesn´t
have that "directly from mpyhtiö and not even used once"-look on it.



I think the "soldier can buy better stuff if they want"-system is good if there
is better stuff to buy. In the Swedish Homeguard it´s often so that it´s not alloved
to use equipment without that holy "M-number", so if you can get a new battlevest
from somewhere, then it´s ok, but since it´s not sold, it´s impossible. Now many
instead buy a modified copy of it. It´s bizarre that real soldiers must have issued crap
from the 80´s while collectors, airsofters or whatever can buy the best equipment
available if they just can afford it. Me thinks that they also should allow the factory
to sell the real issued version as well. Or they can sell them at the regiment
to soldiers that must prove that they are soldiers, or part of the Homeguard etc.

As I've understood back here we don't have that "M-number"-problem, but then again we have no similar problems with the equipment as there's very little of the FDF battle gear being sold anyways.

But, speaking of copies of the real thing; When I bought the M/90's a few years ago I came across this shop that sold some sorts of "civilian copies" of the M/90 and if I can remember correctly they were bright orange (!) from the inside.

Plus, they had these copies of the M/90 "Keps" with similar orange insides.

So I was thinking, "These have to be for hunters or something..."

[mustamato]

http://www.soldf.com/images/m-90hjacka.jpg

You mean this one? It´s m/90H, used by helicopter crews, in case they
crash and wants to get found, they just turn the uniform inside out.


Fältjacka 90 H Samma som Fältjacka 90 men med täckta dragkedjor, lock för samtliga fickorm, orange svårantändligt foder och fickor för pennor på vänster arm.

[Dalleer]

http://www.soldf.com/images/m-90hjacka.jpg

You mean this one? It´s m/90H, used by helicopter crews, in case they
crash and wants to get found, they just turn the uniform inside out.


Fältjacka 90 H Samma som Fältjacka 90 men med täckta dragkedjor, lock för samtliga fickorm, orange svårantändligt foder och fickor för pennor på vänster arm.

Actually, it wasn't the M/90H either. It was more like the regular M/90 Fältjacka but with Orange insides.

Weird, huh?

[Tributal]

If not a m/90H, then probably a civilian hunter's version of the m/90. As you may know a lot of hunters clothing sport orange lining as to prevent "friendly fire" from that other prostate guerilla we got running around out there. ;)

[Dalleer]

If not a m/90H, then probably a civilian hunter's version of the m/90. As you may know a lot of hunters clothing sport orange lining as to prevent "friendly fire" from that other prostate guerilla we got running around out there. ;)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking at the time when I saw them...

[mustamato]

Since this thread was taken up anyway again, I can just as well post some
more Swedish Homeguard photos:

http://www.hemvarnet.mil.se/images/local/intervju.jpg
A Homeguard soldier gets interviewed for the Homeguards own
magazine, note that he is wearing a beret, this was recently introduced
to the Homeguard. A somewhat debated issue, because people seem to
think that berets should be earned, the money could be spent better etc.

http://www.hemvarnet.mil.se/images/local/information.jpg
"Rikshemvärnschefen", Swedish Homeguard commander general major Anders Lindström
talking to some Homeguard soldiers

http://www.hemvarnet.mil.se/images/local/img_0011a.jpg
Command and staff in a batallion training

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/insatsplut-action2.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/insatsplut-action.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/insatsplut-ryggar.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/skbr_kpist.jpg
Probably volunteer doghandlers or something like that, not in
a "fighting unit".

http://www.mdn.mil.se/norrbottensgruppen/images/local/mdn_musik_norrb_flojtist_04.jpg
Also Homeguard

http://www.mdn.mil.se/norrbottensgruppen/images/local/0439.jpg

http://www.mdn.mil.se/norrbottensgruppen/images/local/0381.jpg

http://www.mdn.mil.se/norrbottensgruppen/images/local/0444.jpg

http://www.mdm.mil.se/livgardesgruppen/images/local/r_tacke.jpg

http://www.mdm.mil.se/livgardesgruppen/images/local/l_gmg.jpg

http://www.mdm.mil.se/livgardesgruppen/images/local/l_skadad.jpg

http://www.mdm.mil.se/livgardesgruppen/images/local/l_hundekipage.jpg

http://www.mdm.mil.se/livgardesgruppen/images/local/l_bilbomb.jpg
The man with the blue-yellow on his hat, is a "combat referee"

http://www.mdm.mil.se/livgardesgruppen/images/local/l_framryckning.jpg

[Jack Mehoff]

is this basically the same idea as the u.s. national guard?

U.S. National Guard are still made up of volunteers.

[mustamato]

is this basically the same idea as the u.s. national guard?

U.S. National Guard are still made up of volunteers.

So is the Swedish Homeguard, in case you didn´t get that part.

[Jack Mehoff]

but each soldier must train atleast 20 hours each year.


20 hours each year? That's not enough :|

[mustamato]

but each soldier must train atleast 20 hours each year.

20 hours each year? That's not enough :|

No it´s not enough. But I guess the point is really not to train soldiers in the
Homeguard, just to uphold and refresh the memory of the training that was
given during the conscript days. Originally, in example during the 80´s when
the Swedish army mobilized 750.000 soldiers in the field army the Homeguard
would really only consist of old farts and young eager boys that wanted to die at
the front but were too young. Their main role would be to defend factories from
Spetsnaz, and keep idiots from looting etc. Not really to fight of T-72´s.

Today things have changed slightly, the politicians have slaughtered the field
army and well, the Homeguard have become more important, the soldiers have
become younger and they have got more responsibility in the actual defence
of the country. Let´s see how it becomes in the future, but they will most likely
demand that the soldiers trains a liiiiiittle more than 20 hours each year. But
some politicians (communists and the greens) wants to scrap the Homeguard
as well to save cash, so who knows what happens.

[mustamato]

As I said earlier, people that want to join the Homeguard most have military
experience, from in example conscription. But since all doesn´t have that training,
in example immigrants or women, they nowadays have a 3 month "boot camp"
for these people, if they are interested. After this "boot camp" they can join
the Homeguard and get further training there. This has been done to get the
Homeguard to be 90.000 soldiers strong at the end of this year.

Some photos from this "3 month Homeguard boot camp"

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_1.jpg
Practicing protection of a compound, exactly what the Homeguard
does in their war-time role

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_2.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_3.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_4.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_5.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_6.jpg

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/plutonen1.jpg

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/linus_nilsson2.jpg

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/linus_nilsson4.jpg

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/tvattfat.jpg

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/linda_blixt1.jpg

[Dalleer]

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/insatsplut-ryggar.jpg

I've been wondering, is there some sort of a web page (or somesuch) for the Swedes where you could get an idea on the various shoulder patches and their designated units ?


http://www.wendel.se/rswa/images/stdssk9.jpg

For an example , That one too, "Falkenberg kompani" etc. ?

-----

Another question,

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/linus_nilsson4.jpg

The white helmet covers this time. Are the Swedish conscripts/Hemvärnet etc. guys issued with two separate hoods for the helmet ? or is that thing reversible (M/90 on one side, white on the other?).

At least from what I've seen back here our composite helmet-covers are almost always reversible, although there was some talk about possible "all white" covers sold in MPY awhile back...

Finally, a third question;

http://c4hvbat.origo.net/images/utrstri1.jpg

This particular model of the Stridsbälte M/90 304K has this weird "butt-pack" (if that's a bag for the gasmask, it surely must be a newer model from the one I've got) looking thing hanging on it, and what about those M/90 camouflaged "pouches" in it ? They look like ammo-pouches as well but I wouldn't know for sure.

What are they? and where would you possibly get them?

[MichaelF]

Question for our Swedish brothers, and indeed, for all our Nordic members(Finns, too):

How does Conscription work in your systems? Does -every- able bodied male go, or just those who get randomly selected?

How long is the training (basic, not the skill/trade training, which of course varies). How long is the active service?


Thanks

Mike

[Dalleer]

How does Conscription work in your systems? Does -every- able bodied male go, or just those who get randomly selected?

I bet the Swedes could answer alot better concerning the Swedish conscription-method than I do, since the Finnish and Swedish systems differ quite alot.

But in the Finnish system technically, "every" able bodied male goes if he chooses to. However you are going to have to do something for the country, may it be a civil service, the standard military service, or going to prison because you choose to do neither (this is a sensitive issue, btw).

I wouldn't know about the exact duration of the basic-training period, and I'm not going to start guessing either.

[Truthsayer]

10 years ago, everyone had to go. Since then, the left has cut down on the cost-level for the defence and now only 1/5 or so is drafted. It's more a 'if you come to the sign-up and say you aren't interested, you will most likely not be drafted'-kinda deal.

To be able to do your recruit-time in an 'jaegar-unit' and so on, you have to do a second trial with more tests.

[Swedish_Marine]

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/insatsplut-ryggar.jpg

I've been wondering, is there some sort of a web page (or somesuch) for the Swedes where you could get an idea on the various shoulder patches and their designated units ?


http://www.wendel.se/rswa/images/stdssk9.jpg

For an example , That one too, "Falkenberg kompani" etc. ?

-----

Another question,

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/linus_nilsson4.jpg

The white helmet covers this time. Are the Swedish conscripts/Hemvärnet etc. guys issued with two separate hoods for the helmet ? or is that thing reversible (M/90 on one side, white on the other?).

At least from what I've seen back here our composite helmet-covers are almost always reversible, although there was some talk about possible "all white" covers sold in MPY awhile back...

Finally, a third question;

http://c4hvbat.origo.net/images/utrstri1.jpg

This particular model of the Stridsbälte M/90 304K has this weird "butt-pack" (if that's a bag for the gasmask, it surely must be a newer model from the one I've got) looking thing hanging on it, and what about those M/90 camouflaged "pouches" in it ? They look like ammo-pouches as well but I wouldn't know for sure.

What are they? and where would you possibly get them?

The shoulderpatches can be seen on the various units websites found on www.mil.se. These patches are not official patches of the units. Only a few of them are, and those are the patches of the regiments, and special qualification patches like the Kustjägar-trident.

"Falkenberg Kompani" is a company of Urban Infantry, not Homeguard.

Yes the helmetcover is reversible.

The m/90 pouches on the picture you posted are bought by the wearer of the rig. They are not issued. The butpack you refer to is the new respirator pouch, known as Skyddsmaskväska m/90. This is only carried when the C-readiness requires it. I carry it anyway because that´s the way i was trained. Old spots never wear out. Eh? :)

[mustamato]

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/insatsplut-ryggar.jpg

I've been wondering, is there some sort of a web page (or somesuch) for the Swedes where you could get an idea on the various shoulder patches and their designated units ?


http://www.wendel.se/rswa/images/stdssk9.jpg

For an example , That one too, "Falkenberg kompani" etc. ?

-----

Another question,

http://www.i19.mil.se/images/local/linus_nilsson4.jpg

The white helmet covers this time. Are the Swedish conscripts/Hemvärnet etc. guys issued with two separate hoods for the helmet ? or is that thing reversible (M/90 on one side, white on the other?).

At least from what I've seen back here our composite helmet-covers are almost always reversible, although there was some talk about possible "all white" covers sold in MPY awhile back...

Finally, a third question;

http://c4hvbat.origo.net/images/utrstri1.jpg

This particular model of the Stridsbälte M/90 304K has this weird "butt-pack" (if that's a bag for the gasmask, it surely must be a newer model from the one I've got) looking thing hanging on it, and what about those M/90 camouflaged "pouches" in it ? They look like ammo-pouches as well but I wouldn't know for sure.

What are they? and where would you possibly get them?

Question 1: Well, those are peacetime badges, I haven´t seen any
webpage explaining them but I can say that there are "hundreds" of them,
most of them are from the various Homeguard units. There are some wartime
badges as well, "Krigsförbandsmärke", but I think they are used only by some
special units, such as MP´s and so forth. In example:

http://images.tradera.com/483/5550483_1.jpg
Krigsförbandstecken. (War unit badge) 24. Militärpolisskvadron, K1

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/rhvc-och-hakan-jakobsson.jpg
... on the other side "earned" badges can be worn, this Homeguard soldier
have his coastal jaeger fork. There is also "bows" with text that can be put
above the badges, in example "Prickskytt" (sniper), etc, but as said, those
most be "earned", often they are a great way of simply showing what education
the soldier has. Officially only one badge is allowed to be worn. But some badasses
have a coastal jaeger fork and paratroopers wings.

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/Utbildningsmarken.jpg
... another example with two jackets. The left jacket has a bow with info on
which kind of platoon he belongs to, and below a "survived survival training
and only got this lousy badge". The jacket to the right has a marksmanship
badge

Question 2: Yep, the helmet cover is reversible.

Question 3: Yep, that buttpack is a gasmask bag, also carried in it is
gloves and a lot of other NBC-stuff. Up until 2002, or was it 2003 hmhm, it was
carried attached to the combat belt. But nowadays it is carried in the "sportbag",
or attached to the backpack. Those other pouches the user have added just
because the "Stridsbälte 304K" sucks goat.cx unless not modified. Most users
modify it to some extenth, those extra pouches are most likely bought from:

http://www.recon.se

Well didn´t see that the chap above me answered your questions already,
but what the hell, hopefully I atleast added some information

[Mike 1-3]

Question for our Swedish brothers, and indeed, for all our Nordic members(Finns, too):

How does Conscription work in your systems? Does -every- able bodied male go, or just those who get randomly selected?

How long is the training (basic, not the skill/trade training, which of course varies). How long is the active service?


Thanks

Mike

In Finland, around 80% of all males and a small number of female volunteers complete the military training. The conscription is compulsory, like Dalleer said, the choices are between the armed forces or civilian service duties (and as the saying goes, "if you don't want to do Army, join the Air Force :)). Jehova's Witnessess are exempt from both, don't ask me why every "consciental objector" couldn't be relieved from duty though...

Basic training for most duties lasts for 8 weeks, after which everyone should be at least a passable rifleman. Applicants to Non-Commissioned Officer school (which produces corporals) are selected during this time.

After Basic, for most enlisted duties follows 4 months of specialized training and exercises, for a total of 6 months in the service. During this time in NCO School, the best and the most proficient students get to Officer Candidate School. New NCO:s graduate after about 6 months of total service, and are assigned to their parent unit's next biannual intake of conscripts as assistant instructors and squad leaders etc. The officer students graduate to officer candidates in around 7 months, and take positions in their parent units as (assistant) platoon leaders, fire control officers et cetera.

The total active service for ranks of corporal and above (and to some specialist enlisted men like truck drivers) is 12 months. For other ranks, it is mostly 6 months with some like Military Policemen serving 9 months.

After that the "trained" trooper is assigned to his Reserve unit (which usually consists of men and women s/he trained with) and is subject to refresment training and possible call-up until age of 60. The whole point of this system is not so much to produce combat-effective forces during the 6-9-12 month period, but rather to give basic military and survival skills (latter being rather important in a sparsely populated country where temperature may drop to -40 centigrade - even without the wind chill).

Then, in an unlikely event of increased international tension the reserves would be called up and a period of intense training would begin. Personally, I think this is an aged view and I doubt it's effectiviness...but at least it is cost-effective solution.

Especially considering that a) the total reserves amount to some one million men with at least some military training and b) in all polls held during the last 10 years a staggering 75% of all population (that is, those with military training and those without) were willing to defend the country by force of arms, even if the outcome of the conflict would be in doubt from the beginning.

That's it for now, I have to go but feel free to ask if you want to know something more.

[Swedish_Marine]

@mustamato: In the Swedish military there is no such thing as a wartime patch. In war all Swedish soldiers will wear sterile uniforms except for the Swedish flag on the left arm. Not even rank insignias will be worn. Imagine this: A squad of Fallskärmsjägare or Kustjägare get caught behind enemy lines, the enemy will surely recognise the trident or the golde eagle and identify them as rangers on a recon or sabotage mission. By only wearing the mark of nationality there is no way for the enemy to know that the soldiers are anything more than regular infantry, engineers etc.... And especially officers, who´s rank should not be known to the enemy. This rule applies to ALL Swedish soldiers during war.

The only soldiers that can be identified by marks on their uniforms are MP-s, by the black and white MP-ribbon around their arm.

If you have any questions about this, don´t hesitate to contact me with a PM

[Dalleer]

"Falkenberg Kompani" is a company of Urban Infantry, not Homeguard.

Yes, I am aware of that. But I only posted the picture of this dude from "Falkenberg kompani" because the picture also featured a good view of the shoulder patch.

Which I was trying to get info out of in the first place....


Well, those are peacetime badges, I haven´t seen any
webpage explaining them but I can say that there are "hundreds" of them,
most of them are from the various Homeguard units. There are some wartime
badges as well, "Krigsförbandsmärke", but I think they are used only by some
special units, such as MP´s and so forth. In example:

Hmm, yes, that's just the problem. I would've been interested on seeing the Hemvärnet (also others!) badges up close and all but since they are pretty much individual and so numerous, I've got to be satisfied with what mil.se gives me...


Well didn´t see that the chap above me answered your questions already,
but what the hell, hopefully I atleast added some information

Don't worry, you always add more information when it comes to these things, especially when you provided a link to the shop where you can get all that stuff.

Speaking of which, I'm really surprised that I haven't seen those things around on recon.se before, but I guess I haven't really been looking then....

http://www.recon.se/Vaskor/vaskor_bild/Stabsportfolj.jpg

Hehehe, this one reminds me of the CADPAT toothbrush cases and whatnot...

[mustamato]

@mustamato: In the Swedish military there is no such thing as a wartime patch. In war all Swedish soldiers will wear sterile uniforms except for the Swedish flag on the left arm. Not even rank insignias will be worn. Imagine this: A squad of Fallskärmsjägare or Kustjägare get caught behind enemy lines, the enemy will surely recognise the trident or the golde eagle and identify them as rangers on a recon or sabotage mission. By only wearing the mark of nationality there is no way for the enemy to know that the soldiers are anything more than regular infantry, engineers etc.... And especially officers, who´s rank should not be known to the enemy. This rule applies to ALL Swedish soldiers during war.

The only soldiers that can be identified by marks on their uniforms are MP-s, by the black and white MP-ribbon around their arm.

If you have any questions about this, don´t hesitate to contact me with a PM

Well, I agree, that´s my understanding of how it would be as well. But still, there
is those thingies called "Krigsförbandsmärken" around, I think their name indicates
everything that could be said about them. But the only variant I´ve seen is for
MP´s, and those are sold by some dude on Tradera, except the one on the picture in my
previous post (for 24. Militärpolisskvadron, K1) he has this to sale:

http://images.tradera.com/508/5550508_1.jpg
26. Militärpolisskvadron vid K1

Although it wouldn´t surprise me if these wartime units doesn´t exist any longer
due to the slaughter of the Swedish defence. But one thing is for sure, those
badges is/was nothing used during peace-time.

[dumdidum]

And especially officers, who´s rank should not be known to the enemy. This rule applies to ALL Swedish soldiers during war.

If the enemy is close enough to see your grade patch they are way to close, and you are most likely already dead. And if you are taken prisoner you are forced by the laws of war to state your grade. The reason you remove the colarpatches (grade and branch of service patch) is that the enemy will have a harder time to figure out what branch you belong to.

[Swedish_Marine]

And especially officers, who´s rank should not be known to the enemy. This rule applies to ALL Swedish soldiers during war.

If the enemy is close enough to see your grade patch they are way to close, and you are most likely already dead. And if you are taken prisoner you are forced by the laws of war to state your grade. The reason you remove the colarpatches (grade and branch of service patch) is that the enemy will have a harder time to figure out what branch you belong to.

Well my friend. You hear different things around the regiments. But you´re right, according to the Geneva convetion you have to state your rank if asked.

@mustamato: No that patch would not be worn during war, it´s just a peacetime patch. In war an MP squad/platoon is assigned to a each unit in the field to keep order so in war they belong to that specific unit so the patch would needed to be changed anyway if there were such wartime patches. Like i said, uniforms will be sterile when in war :P

The only exception was during the running aground of the U-137 where Kustjägare and Fallskärmsjägare made a show of force for the soviets, wearing their berets, to make the soviets aware of the presence of elite forces.

[Thor]

Of course rank insignias will be worn in war!

[dumdidum]

Of course rank insignias will be worn in war!

There is no legal support (atleast no international or swedish law) that forces you to wear them, and there is no practical reason either, so why bother. Personally I would tear them of if I were going into battle.

[Swedish_Marine]

Of course rank insignias will be worn in war!

No. However Officers and squadleaders may wear small fluorecent spots on the back of their helmet so they can be spotted by friendly forces. But NEVER rank insignias. An officer or squadleader can be spotted and taken out by a sniper and cause confusion. The reason why ranks are not allowed in time of war is to make it difficult for snipers to spot officers. Normally if you are war posted you train with you are co-trained with your so called War-platoon leader. Normally you would know who he is anyway, so you would proboly recognise him, with or without rank insignias.

[Thor]

Of course rank insignias will be worn in war!

No. However Officers and squadleaders may wear small fluorecent spots on the back of their helmet so they can be spotted by friendly forces. But NEVER rank insignias. An officer or squadleader can be spotted and taken out by a sniper and cause confusion. The reason why ranks are not allowed in time of war is to make it difficult for snipers to spot officers. Normally if you are war posted you train with you are co-trained with your so called War-platoon leader. Normally you would know who he is anyway, so you would proboly recognise him, with or without rank insignias.

No no, believing that rank insignias (especially discrete swedish ones) would reveal officers to snipers is just wrong. Your officers should have told you that. A sniper looks for so many other things that are essential to him, different equipment, moving patterns and so on. Are you close enough to identify rank insignias you are to close for your own good (sniper's pov). The sniper's job is to stay as far away as he can without losing his one hit - one kill.

Why do you think the yanks use obvious insignias in Iraq btw? It's true that big shiny insignias on helmets revealed american officers during WWII but that was then.

However it's true that you fold up your collars when getting combat ready.

[Thor]

Of course rank insignias will be worn in war!

There is no legal support (atleast no international or swedish law) that forces you to wear them, and there is no practical reason either, so why bother. Personally I would tear them of if I were going into battle.

Get real.

[mustamato]

Of course rank insignias will be worn in war!

No. However Officers and squadleaders may wear small fluorecent spots on the back of their helmet so they can be spotted by friendly forces. But NEVER rank insignias. An officer or squadleader can be spotted and taken out by a sniper and cause confusion. The reason why ranks are not allowed in time of war is to make it difficult for snipers to spot officers. Normally if you are war posted you train with you are co-trained with your so called War-platoon leader. Normally you would know who he is anyway, so you would proboly recognise him, with or without rank insignias.

Not allowed? I agree with Thor on this one. Get real. Look at the pics in SoldF 2001
that is supposed to show Swedish soldiers in a combat enviroment. They have their
ranks on them, of course. And how the hell could a sniper see what rank a Swedish
soldier has? Personally I can´t see what rank Swedish soldier has even from 30
meters.

[glofs]

Regarding "krigsförbandsmärken"; the only one I've seen is the ordinary one for Livskvadron K1 (MP) but with dark green instead of white.
http://hem.passagen.se/jacobw/mp/gfx/liv.JPG

I've also seen MP-banners with the MP-text dulled in dark green. Those things makes me think Swedish MP:s would be wearing both the (camouflaged) insignias in wartime.

[dumdidum]

Of course rank insignias will be worn in war!

There is no legal support (atleast no international or swedish law) that forces you to wear them, and there is no practical reason either, so why bother. Personally I would tear them of if I were going into battle.

Get real.

What? Tell me why I should wear them then, and dont just post some **** answer like "get real". Give me a reason. I would only wear them during peacekeeping missions. If there was a war in Sweden I would not wear them, because there is no reason to do it.


@mustamato

You are welcome to fight the war by some textbook, I will however not do that. Lets see who lives the longest. And by the way, alot of the pics in "SoldF 2001" are taken during regular fieldexecises and the soldiers are wearing shoulderpatches. And thats NOT the way its supposed to be in a combat environment.

[Swedish_Marine]

@Thor: Like i said earlier on, different information is given to soldiers in the different regiments around the country. Personally, when we asked our officers we were told to strip our uniforms of everything, even ranks. The only thing to keep on our uniforms are the flag, nothing else. I believe that this information is individual to each regiment and unit. I will do what ever my officers tell me to do. If they tell me to dress up as a christmas tree with all the shiny ornaments and lights i won´t question them ( irony ). I asked my father of this yesterday, and he has been on a couple of mobilisation-exercises ( mobiliseringsövning ) and the uniforms that they picked up in the storage-rooms in the forest were to be stripped from any rank insignias if they had any.

But things change i guess. Maybe the rank insignias are supposed to be worn, and maybe not. I will do as im told.

[mustamato]

@mustamato

You are welcome to fight the war by some textbook, I will however not do that. Lets see who lives the longest. And by the way, alot of the pics in "SoldF 2001" are taken during regular fieldexecises and the soldiers are wearing shoulderpatches. And thats NOT the way its supposed to be in a combat environment.

I of course meant the cartoons :)

If we put it like this then. You are on a recon patrol behind enemy lines with
your squad. The Ruskies captures you all alive. Don´t you think that they will
beat the **** of you anyway and that someone will say who is the one in charge?
I mean, they will figure it out anyway. And besides, if it´s a sniper observing
the sqaud in his scope I guess he´ll understand who is the leader anyway, just
by watching who is the one giving the orders and so forth. Can you guess who is
the commander in charge on this picture? Atleast I can :P

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/chef.jpg

[dumdidum]

If I get capured by ruskies I am obligated by law to state my name, id-number and rank. And no Im not vorried about snipers seeing my rank patch. But there is no practical reason to wear the damn thing so I wont.


"If it´s not necessary for operation, remove it!"

Edit: And in that picture you show, there is no flag on the uniforms. A clear error.

[Thor]

If I get capured by ruskies I am obligated by law to state my name, id-number and rank. And no Im not vorried about snipers seeing my rank patch. But there is no practical reason to wear the damn thing so I wont.


"If it´s not necessary for operation, remove it!"

Edit: And in that picture you show, there is no flag on the uniforms. A clear error.

You wear it because you're supposed to. It's just that simple.

[mustamato]

Edit: And in that picture you show, there is no flag on the uniforms. A clear error.

I don´t think there is a rule that says that there must be a flag on the
uniform, otherwise it´s not a uniform. Yes I´m aware of the fact that it´s like
that in Sweden, but that doesn´t say that it´s like that in other countries. There
is no Finnish flag on the Finnish uniforms used in the field, not even in peace-time,
and there would definitively not be any in wartime. In example:

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=16
... nothing on the left side

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/voima03/get2data.php3?id=10
... and nothing on the right side

And I doubt that Swedish soldiers "must" wear a Swedish flag on their uniforms
in case of war. The m/90-pattern is as unique as the Swedish flag anyway.

[dumdidum]

And I doubt that Swedish soldiers "must" wear a Swedish flag on their uniforms
in case of war. The m/90-pattern is as unique as the Swedish flag anyway.

Well in difference with what you THINK, I KNOW that the flag have to be worn.

As for the m/90 beeing unique for Sweden thats true when it comes to other countries armed forces, but there are alot of m/90 uniforms on the "blackmarket", hell there is even a chechynian(spelling?) officer wearing a m/90 on photo that been posted on this forum. There is also a asian (india or malaysia I think) airsoft homepage with a whole airsoft team dressed up in m/90.

@Thor: Stop writeing things you clearly cant back up! The is NO laws or regulations that say that the rankpatches must be worn during war. What part of that dont you understand? Have you even done conscript time yet? And if you have, dont belive everything you were told, officers arent right all the time.

[Swedish_Marine]

And what ever you do... DON`T believe what you see in the cartoons in SoldF. Remember, cartoons are not real.

[MichaelF]

And what ever you do... DON`T believe what you see in the cartoons in SoldF. Remember, cartoons are not real.

You tell me this NOW????


All those years searching for Smurfs.....


:cantbeli:

Mike

[Truthsayer]

As for the m/90 beeing unique for Sweden thats true when it comes to other countries armed forces, but there are alot of m/90 uniforms on the "blackmarket", hell there is even a chechynian(spelling?) officer wearing a m/90 on photo that been posted on this forum. There is also a asian (india or malaysia I think) airsoft homepage with a whole airsoft team dressed up in m/90.

South-Korean team interly dessed in SWE-gear, then we have japanese, Hong-Kong, American and Malaysian teams that partly uses SWE-gear.

[Swedish_Marine]

If you DON`T wear the flag you may not be recognised as a combatant ( i.e not a Swedish soldier ), and the laws of the geneva convention won´t protect you if captured. The m/90 uniform pattern is not unique, like a couple of you have already stated. The flag is there for a good reason.

[mustamato]

Well, as I showed on the photos of the Finnish soldiers one page back, no
flags, some Russian soldiers:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12023&start=0

No flags. I guess they (and all other countries that doesn´t have a flag on their
uniform, and there is a lot of them) will have to live without being protected
by the Geneva convention. Too bad for the talibans that they didn´t have a Afghani
flag on their rags, because then they would have been considered as "combatans"
and would never had ended up in Guantanamo :roll:

[Marmot1]

If you DON`T wear the flag you may not be recognised as a combatant ( i.e not a Swedish soldier ), and the laws of the geneva convention won´t protect you if captured. The m/90 uniform pattern is not unique, like a couple of you have already stated. The flag is there for a good reason.

rofl rofl rofl dude it is not a flag that makes you combatant it is not even your military document, even insurgents are recognized as combatants by geneva if they have lidership, command structure, etc. Read geneva first then give such radiculus statements

[dumdidum]

No its not the flag itself that is important, but the uniform is not a swedish unform without the flag sewed on.

The swedish regulations say that the uniform should have the flag sewed on. Hence the m/90 is not a swedish uniform without the flag.

@marmot:

You forgot that to be a combatant you also have to wear some kind of uniformal distinguishing mark. So it´s clear who is part of the fighting forces and who is not.

[mustamato]

The swedish regulations say that the uniform should have the flag sewed on. Hence the m/90 is not a swedish uniform without the flag.

If you buy a m/90 jacket in some military shop it might still have the flag
on it. You can carry it while you are hunting or fishing or whatever. It isn´t
a uniform. It becomes a uniform first when you put ranks and unit badges on it.
This is the judicial explanation, hence:

http://www.airsoft.nu/media/pictures/2003-01-18_Klacken/2003-01-18_20.JPG
... the reason to why the airsofters have a Swedish flag but no unit
badges (because then Farbror Blå would make them a visit)

http://www.airsoft.nu/media/pictures/2003-01-18_Klacken/2003-01-18_40.JPG
I can guarantee you that this is not a Swedish soldier

http://www.airsoft.nu/media/pictures/2002-11-02_Klacken/2002-11-02_18.JPG
... neither is this

[dumdidum]

No thats not a swedish soldier, neither is it a m/90 uniform.
http://www.airsoft.nu/media/pictures/2003-01-18_Klacken/2003-01-18_40.JPG

To get this straight once and for all. The only thing required to have sewed on to the m/90 is the flag!

I have discussed this thoroughly with a number of people, because at first I also thought that the rankinsignias were required. I have also had a breif discussion with the people at headquarters that confirm the uniform regulations for the swedish armed forces. And the message is clear, only the flag is required!

[Thor]

To get this straight once and for all. The only thing required to have sewed on to the m/90 is the flag!

I have discussed this thoroughly with a number of people, because at first I also thought that the rankinsignias were required. I have also had a breif discussion with the people at headquarters that confirm the uniform regulations for the swedish armed forces. And the message is clear, only the flag is required!

So let's get real serious and check "Uniformsreglemente för försvarsmakten" (2003). It clearly states on page 186 that rank insignias are mandatory. Non-mandatory "tjänstetecken" are marked with an asterisk. "Nationsmärke" (flag) is mandatory but "förbandsmärke" is not.

...

[Thor]

Who are those ugly bastards on those pictures anyway? Seem they're about to say "hey, the army did'nt want us so **** them".

[dumdidum]

So let's get real serious and check "Uniformsreglemente för försvarsmakten" (2003). It clearly states on page 186 that rank insignias are mandatory. Non-mandatory "tjänstetecken" are marked with an asterisk. "Nationsmärke" (flag) is mandatory but "förbandsmärke" is not.

...

I know what UniR FM 2003 says. But When I have talked to the people the acctually confirmed the regulations, they have told me that in case of war the rankpatches doesnt have to bee worn.

[Swedish_Marine]

If you DON`T wear the flag you may not be recognised as a combatant ( i.e not a Swedish soldier ), and the laws of the geneva convention won´t protect you if captured. The m/90 uniform pattern is not unique, like a couple of you have already stated. The flag is there for a good reason.

rofl rofl rofl dude it is not a flag that makes you combatant it is not even your military document, even insurgents are recognized as combatants by geneva if they have lidership, command structure, etc. Read geneva first then give such radiculus statements

HUSH PUPPY!!! If you have served in Sweden i might listen to you, but if you have not, bite your f*cking tounge, because you have no idea what you´re talking about. PERIOD!

The uniform regulation says one thing and the officers say another, and to be frank with you Thor i rather listen to my officers than a book, because the book regulates the uniform in peacetime.

[tacticalmanta]

but which stands better in court; a government approved document, or the opinion of an officer? Rank badges are not required by international law and unit badges are not either.

[Swedish_Marine]

but which stands better in court; a government approved document, or the opinion of an officer? Rank badges are not required by international law and unit badges are not either.

Well here we don´t fight by documents, here we fight with a swedish flag on our uniforms, nothing else. In wartime that is, when Sweden defends itself against an invader, but hopefully that won´t happen. If UK or US soldiers must fight with the support of a goverment approved document is not my problem. I follow the orders of my officers. I´d rather be an anonymous soldier, a so called Lasse i ledet ( regular GI ) than stick out with my SSgt-rank if captured in the field. I rather state my rank later during interrogation when the Geneva Convention tells me to do it. No sooner than that.

[tacticalmanta]

You will get no argument from me. As long as your men know the chain of command, there is no need to decorate yourself unless you have too much pride, or enjoy being shot at.

[Swedish_Marine]

You will get no argument from me. As long as your men know the chain of command, there is no need to decorate yourself unless you have too much pride, or enjoy being shot at.

Finally someone who agrees :D

[tacticalmanta]

The US Navy SEALs agree too, so you have some good back-up.

[Dalleer]

If you buy a m/90 jacket in some military shop it might still have the flag
on it. You can carry it while you are hunting or fishing or whatever. It isn´t
a uniform. It becomes a uniform first when you put ranks and unit badges on it.

This might not help much, but when I bought my first (used) M/90 uniform from Sweden all of the jackets had the Swedish flag on them. Then when I bought the second uniform (new) it of course did not feature the flag.

However, I can only guess on why us Finns don't have the flags on our uniform (besides if you really, really, want to wear one during a reservist exercise and when you have to wear one during leave).

[insats_prsk]

this is not doghandlers this is ladies from SKBR (swedish female driving ...)

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/skbr_kpist.jpg
Probably volunteer doghandlers or something like that, not in
a "fighting unit".

[mustamato]

this is not doghandlers this is ladies from SKBR (swedish female driving ...)

http://www.mds.mil.se/images/local/skbr_kpist.jpg
Probably volunteer doghandlers or something like that, not in
a "fighting unit".

Ok, atleast here you have a doghandler, for sure...

http://www.mdm.mil.se/vastmanlandsgruppen/images/local/vbat14a.jpg

http://www.mdm.mil.se/vastmanlandsgruppen/images/local/vbat8a.jpg
... and the same lady on the range

http://www.mdm.mil.se/vastmanlandsgruppen/images/local/vbat11a.jpg
Handgrenade range "waiting room".

http://www.mdm.mil.se/vastmanlandsgruppen/images/local/vbat4a.jpg
Psg 90

http://www.mdm.mil.se/vastmanlandsgruppen/images/local/bild-8_plut.jpg
... and again, together with a AK4 OR in front

http://www.mdm.mil.se/vastmanlandsgruppen/images/local/bild-9_plut.jpg

http://www.mdm.mil.se/vastmanlandsgruppen/images/local/bild-1_plut.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/goteborgsgruppen/images/local/040406bulid5.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/goteborgsgruppen/images/local/040406bulid8.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/goteborgsgruppen/images/local/040406bulid4.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/goteborgsgruppen/images/local/040406bulid12.jpg

http://www.mds.mil.se/goteborgsgruppen/images/local/040401basskjutning7.jpg
With AK4B (a rail with Aimpoint)

[Kekkonen]

Pictures from a last "knowledge test" held for "Homeguard recruits". In Sweden there
is a possibility to do a 3 month "boot camp" for those that couldnt/wouldn´t/whatever
do ordinary military service. They are after these 3 months assigned to a Homeguard
unit and will there get further education.

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_hv_slut_0146.jpg
Demolition patrol, the soldier on the left is holding twelve sticks of TNT, each
stick is about 75 grams. The other soldiers are armed with the AK4B of the Homeguard.

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_hv_slut_0158.jpg
Ready to blow up enemy mortars

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_hv_slut_0172.jpg
The convoy has been attacked

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_hv_slut_0207.jpg

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_hv_slut_0223.jpg
The Homeguard recruits got during the exercise attacked with "C-weapons",
in the picture they are in the middle of a teargas cloud

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_hv_slut_0252.jpg
On their way thru the sanitation track

http://www.ing2.mil.se/images/local/1komp_hv_slut_0264.jpg
And a little reward after the exercise

Some more pictures from the "real" Homeguards exercises

http://www.mdn.mil.se/lapplandsjagargruppen/images/local/mdn_g66_0410_fast.jpg
The food transport is stuck

http://www.mdn.mil.se/lapplandsjagargruppen/images/local/mdn_g66_0410_eld.jpg

http://www.mdn.mil.se/lapplandsjagargruppen/images/local/mdn_g66_0410_stridah.jpg

http://www.mdn.mil.se/lapplandsjagargruppen/images/local/mdn_g66_0410_flankah.jpg

[Dalleer]

That's the "mini-lumpen" thing , right ?

I've read about it too..

And great pictures , as always , Mr. Kekkonen...

[Thor]

The uniform regulation says one thing and the officers say another, and to be frank with you Thor i rather listen to my officers than a book, because the book regulates the uniform in peacetime.

Sure, at war all regulations cease to exist and/or the HQ issue some new regulations that everybody have to learn..! ;) Removing rank insignias on a covert mission or when you're in danger of getting captured, that's one thing. That's why there's only two sews to the rank insignias (quick removal).

But for the ordinary grunt there's no need to strip every patch of his uniform as soon as he's in war zone or close to one. Look att the guys in Iraq right now.. I rest my case.

[Kekkonen]

That's the "mini-lumpen" thing , right ?

I've read about it too..

And great pictures , as always , Mr. Kekkonen...

No, the first 3 months "boot camp" is GSU, "Grundläggande soldatutbildning", mini-Lumpen
is a apetizer for girls mostly, that during a weekend only get to do fun stuff. Swedish girls
seems to be not very interested of military matters, the percentage of girls in the Swedish
military is pretty low compared to for example Finland, and our feminist politicians
are of course outraged and have demanded a change.

http://www.rekryc.mil.se/images/local/21_004.jpg
Minilumpen can be this fun

[SS1983]

I like the equipment of Finnish and Swedish,but because of my poor English and I konw nothing about Finnish and Swedish words.I can not follow your opinion. :roll:
I was confused by these words in your dialogue.
Thanks for these pics!