Chavez signs deals with Vietnam

[ed316]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif
Chavez signs deals with Vietnam
By Bill Hayton
BBC News, Hanoi
The President of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, has said he wants to work more closely with Vietnam as part of his alliance against American imperialism.
In Hanoi, the two countries signed a number of agreements including one on developing oil and gas reserves.
The radical, left-wing President spoke warmly of Vietnam's fight against the United States in the 1960s and 1970s.
However, Vietnam's communist leadership is more interested in co-operating with the United States than confronting it.
This is another leg of a world tour which has already taken President Chavez to Russia, Belarus and Iran.
In Vietnam, the two countries pledged to work together in oil, gas, mining and agriculture.
Cultural cancellations
Mr Chavez's original schedule had included a visit to the military museum which contains the wreckage of shot-down American aircraft.
He was also due to visit the 'Peace Village' which looks after children suffering from health problems blamed on defoliating chemicals used in the war by the US.
However, those elements of his trip have now been cancelled.
Vietnam has worked hard to build closer relations with Washington in the past 15 years.
The US Congress will soon hold a crucial vote which will determine whether Vietnam will join the World Trade Organisation this year.
These issues press more heavily on the current Vietnamese government than talk of alliances against imperialism.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/5229980.stm

Published: 2006/07/31 10:13:54 GMT

© BBC MMVI


Seems like Vietnam is tired of "Imperialism" rants.

[evanfitz]

Mr Chavez's original schedule had included a visit to the military museum which contains the wreckage of shot-down American aircraft.

bet he was eager to see that.....

[WarriorMonk]

hah! Chavez is such a fool!

The corruption of the traitors of my countrymen has already begun!

Now that he has defiled my home country with his breath, perhaps I can see why quite a few folks want him dead!

[wicked_hind]

Why are the Vietnamese even wasting their time with Chavez?

[ed316]

Why are the Vietnamese even wasting their time with Chavez?

Economics. Nothing more.

[GeraldDuval]

aye, its all about money. Anything that will help Viet-Nam's economy is welcomed. The average yearly income for a single Viet is only $400 US...That's why this WTO thing is SO important to their country.

[Flagg]

Notice the cancellations.

It's nice to see the Vietnamese donkey-punched an opportunity for Chavez to point fingers at the US.

Vietnam's now one of the "good guys".

They make our shoes.

They grow our coffee.

They don't like China much.

And they're probably sitting on a big pile of oil/gas with the disputed Spratley Islands...hence the investment in top, long range kit like SU27 Flankers

[wicked_hind]

Notice the cancellations.

It's nice to see the Vietnamese donkey-punched an opportunity for Chavez to point fingers at the US.


Probably because they too think that Chavez is a frickin' idiot

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Vietnam's now one of the "good guys".
Haven't they bought some Boeing aircraft lately? Also I think they recently started a baseball league/team.


They don't like China much.
Didn't they have a little tiff with the Chinese in the 80s. I could be wrong.

Hand't heard about the SU27 purchase.

[LaoSexMachine]

Haven't they bought some Boeing aircraft lately? Also I think they recently started a baseball league/team.


Didn't they have a little tiff with the Chinese in the 80s. I could be wrong.

Hand't heard about the SU27 purchase.

Well, they were under Chinese rule for like a 1000 years or so. Chinese do look down on Vietnamese people. They also look down upon my peeps too (Lao/s). They don't want to be under China ever again.

[GeraldDuval]

Like ezekiel said, China ruled viet-nam for a very long time. Before the french developed a written Vietnamese language they had to use Chinese for all official documents, as well as having chinese as the official court language in Hue.

And yes, the Sino-Viet-nam was fought in '79 and the chinese got absolutely stomped...

There is still alot of racism in viet-nam against the Chinese, the khmer, the Montagnards (whos official name in vietnamese is Moi, translated as savage) the Lao, and pretty much everyone else around them.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Well, they were under Chinese rule for like a 1000 years or so. Chinese do look down on Vietnamese people. They also look down upon my peeps too (Lao/s). They don't want to be under China ever again.
What do the Lao/s think of the US? Friendly or not so friendly?

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Like ezekiel said, China ruled viet-nam for a very long time. Before the french developed a written Vietnamese language they had to use Chinese for all official documents, as well as having chinese as the official court language in Hue.

And yes, the Sino-Viet-nam was fought in '79 and the chinese got absolutely stomped...

Very interesting stuff. I admit I know nothing of the conflict, but if someone could answer a dumb question: Why didn't China just overwhelm the Vietnamese? Sheer numbers?

[Flagg]

Probably because they too think that Chavez is a frickin' idiot

Or maybe they're turning into sharp businesspeople slash half communists :)

Trade between Vietnam and the US has EXPLODED.

Vietnam thought they won the war.....until Coca-Cola, McDonalds, and Nike re-invaded :)

My GUESS is that the next 20 years will see Vietnam become more capitalist, and US/Vietnamese relations will seriously warm.

It's a huge opportunity for both nations...and a hedge against China for the US ;)

[Flagg]

Haven't they bought some Boeing aircraft lately?

I've seen at least one new looking 777.


Didn't they have a little tiff with the Chinese in the 80s. I could be wrong.

Hand't heard about the SU27 purchase.

I guess they bought it to counter the Chinese Flankers, long legs to reach out to and loiter around the Spratleys....there could be a whole heap o' oil and gas hiding under a couple of disputed rocks.

[LaoSexMachine]

What do the Lao/s think of the US? Friendly or not so friendly?

We like America. There's a US embassy in Vientiane. The French on the other hand are not that well like, most Lao-American feel this way. Lao and Vietnamese pretty much get along in America.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

We like America. There's a US embassy in Vientiane. The French on the other hand are not that well like, most Lao-American feel this way. Lao and Vietnamese pretty much get along in America.
Good to hear! What's trade like between our countries? I think a fair amount of textiles come from Laos. That's only a guess.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

I guess they bought it to counter the Chinese Flankers, long legs to reach out to and loiter around the Spratleys....there could be a whole heap o' oil and gas hiding under a couple of disputed rocks.
Interesting. I guess my attitude (my less-than-totally-pragmatic sense) toward Vientnam is really guided by the impression I have that Vietnam vets had a lot of respect for their adversary. If they don't mind, then why not be good friends.

[LaoSexMachine]

Good to hear! What's trade like between our countries? I think a fair amount of textiles come from Laos. That's only a guess.

Not much. Rice, tin, and rubber I think are the biggest. Laos is a moutainous country and only like 5% of land in Laos can be farmed. We are very poor and I think eco-tourism will probably be the ticket. I think Thailand and Cambodia wouldn't like it to much if we dam the Mekong.

[GeraldDuval]

Very interesting stuff. I admit I know nothing of the conflict, but if someone could answer a dumb question: Why didn't China just overwhelm the Vietnamese? Sheer numbers?

Everyone severly underestimates the determination of the Vietnamese people. They have a very deep sense of nationality and patriotism. Vietnam had not been a free and independant country for most of recorded history. it was under the Indians, the Khmer, the Chinese, The French, the Japanese and the RVN for so long that when it finally became it's own united and free country there was no way in hell the Viets would ever let anyone else rule them.

The reason that they beat the chinese was the same reason why they beat America. Ho Chi Minh said once (it's a loose quote from my own memory) "For every 10 of us that you kill, we will kill one of you; and in the end it will be you who tires from it."

The other reason that vietnam beat china was because the Peoples army of Viet-Nam was just so damned good. Many westerners discredit asian armies because they are not white, however, IMHO Viet-nam has one of the finest field armies in the world in terms of sheer combat experience, determination and esprit-de-corps.

At the time china invaded it had not converted itself into a modern army. they were still using runners to convey messages, their tactic were still human wave assaults and their airforce was underequipped and poorly trained. Whereas Vietnam had a very sophisticated communications system, had developed tactics to successfully fight a larger and better equipped enemy and whose airforce was not only well equipped but also experienced in combat fighting air-to-air and air-to ground engagements against the French, the US and the Cambodians.

Numbers can only go so far.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Ho Chi Minh said once (it's a loose quote from my own memory) "For every 10 of us that you kill, we will kill one of you; and in the end it will be you who tires from it."
I've heard this quote. I think it was part of an interview with Ho Chi Minh by a French journalist.

Something like that will work against Americans, but against Chinese (communists to boot!) I really didn't know.



The other reason that vietnam beat china was because the Peoples army of Viet-Nam was just so damned good. Many westerners discredit asian armies because they are not white, however, IMHO Viet-nam has one of the finest field armies in the world in terms of sheer combat experience, determination and esprit-de-corps.


Whereas Vietnam had a very sophisticated communications system, had developed tactics to successfully fight a larger and better equipped enemy and whose airforce was not only well equipped but also experienced in combat fighting air-to-air and air-to ground engagements against the French, the US and the Cambodians.
Combat experience I understand, but what about equipment? During the Vietnam War, I had assumed a lot of equipment came from China or through China.

[ViktorNavorski]

Saigon is changing too fast for my taste, glad I still got My Tho.

[Kilgor]

Vietnam and the US are forging closer ties and chavez probably thinks he can throw a spanner in the works.

[LaoSexMachine]

Apparently Chavez doesn't know what war can do to a country. Vietnam knows and rather have peace and prosperity then starting sh*t.

[Kilgor]

Vietnam doesnt like china too much, and the US doesnt like the idea of a powerful chinese military. Strange bedfellows indeed. Chavez cant offer **** to vietnam, other than dated marxist retoric.

[ViktorNavorski]

Not to mention the largest population of Vietnamese (and their all plentiful remittances) outside Viet Nam are in the U.S.

[WarriorMonk]

Not to mention the largest population of Vietnamese (and their all plentiful remittances) outside Viet Nam are in the U.S.

And staunchly anti-communist like me...gee could you believe there are still morons out there who promote the very idea that is starting to fail in Vietnam now?

[GazB]

Why didn't China just overwhelm the Vietnamese? Sheer numbers?

They tried, but their logistics train for reaching into other countries was incredibly weak. Those forces they did send were starving within 2 weeks.

Full credit to the Vietnamese though... they have put up with sht and they have decided not to put up with it anymore... no matter who delivered it.

I think the western belief that asians are little yellow people that can't fight very well and are physically weak was well and truely crushed when Japan spread through the Pacific in WWII. Some forgot it, but the Koreans (both north and south) and the Vietnamese reinforced the falsehood of that stereotype... it is a shame memories in the west were so short they needed to be reminded.

[XShipRider]

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pg.html

With so many hands in the cookie jar it might be hard to extract
anything without a military eruption of sorts.

Now would be the time for the UN to make nice with all parties.
But what typically happens is they sit back, allow hostilities
to start then start throwing blame anywhere it will stick on
the world stage.

[ed316]

My girlfriend is not too happy that he's there. She actually gave props to the Vietnamese government by not letting Chavez run his trap.

[wicked_hind]

Or maybe they're turning into sharp businesspeople slash half communists :)

Trade between Vietnam and the US has EXPLODED.

Vietnam thought they won the war.....until Coca-Cola, McDonalds, and Nike re-invaded :)

My GUESS is that the next 20 years will see Vietnam become more capitalist, and US/Vietnamese relations will seriously warm.

It's a huge opportunity for both nations...and a hedge against China for the US ;)

I know them about becoming very sharp businessmen, and I say that's great for Vietnam....You really think it'll take 20 years? I think it'll take 10-15 years, given the fact that relations have already warmed up significantly since the Clinton administration. This past year, they put in a major order to Boeing for some new 787 Dreamliners and 777 aircraft. As for winning the war, they won it fair and square but they know the value of the dollar. Vietnam's becoming quite a tourist destination too, with a lot of the old school soldiers going back. With tourism dollars to boot, that place is gonna be booming in a few more years.

[TomEHs]

I dont think the spratley islands will ever be used because too many countries are saying they own it. Chinese, Vietnam, and the Philippines all claim that they own the islands.