Museum tells Earth's history with Bible

[Hellfish]

PETERSBURG, Ky. - Like most natural history museums, this one has exhibits showing dinosaurs roaming the Earth. Except here, the giant reptiles share the forest with Adam and Eve.

That, of course, is contradicted by science, but that's the point of the $25 million Creation Museum rising fast in rural Kentucky.


Its inspiration is the Bible — the literal interpretation that contends God created the heavens and the Earth and everything in them just a few thousand years ago.


"If the Bible is the word of God, and its history really is true, that's our presupposition or axiom, and we are starting there," museum founder Ken Ham said during recent tour of the sleek and modern facility, which is due to open next year.


Ham, an Australian native who started the Christian publishing company Answers in Genesis in the late 1970s, said the goal of his privately funded museum is to change minds and rebut the scientific point of view.


"We're going to show you that we can make sense of the different people groups, we can make sense of fossils, we can make sense of what you see in the world," he said.


Visitors to the museum, a few miles from Cincinnati, will be able to watch the story of creation unfold in a 180-seat special-effects theater, see a 40-foot-tall recreation of a section of Noah's Ark and stare into the jaws of robotic dinosaurs.


"It's education, but it's also doing it in an entertaining way," Ham said.
Scientists say fossils and sophisticated nuclear dating technology show that the Earth is more than 4 billion years old, the first dinosaurs appeared around 200 million years ago, and they died out well before the first human ancestors arose a few million years ago.


"Genesis is not science," said Mary Dawson, curator emeritus of vertebrate paleontology at the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh. "Genesis is a tale that was handed down for generations by people who really knew nothing about science, who knew nothing about natural history, and certainly knew nothing about what fossils were."


Ham said he believes most fossils are the result of the Great Flood described in Genesis.


Mark Looy, a vice president at Answers in Genesis, said the museum has received at least $21 million in private donations. He said two anonymous donors have given $1 million, and he expects the museum to be debt-free when it opens next May.


John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research in San Diego, an organization that promotes creationism, said the museum will affirm the doubts many people have about science, namely the notion that man evolved from lower forms of life.


"Americans just aren't gullible enough to believe that they came from a fish," he said.

This American is gullible enough! :)woot

[ed316]

...........Allrighty then!

[DeadMeatXM2]

Its rather sad really... Oh well............

[micronazi]

Wow...

I don't see how someone can reall believe that we just popped out of nowhere. I also cannot see how someone can believe that we evolved into the extremely complex, autonomous organisms we are, just to eat, sh!t, sleep and die. That's just my thought on it.

I just don't see a valid argument on either side. Creationist/ID people are just dreaming sh!t up and going with it. And you have your hardcore scientist/atheists stickingtheir fingers in their going, "We can't hear you! We have no point and we die!"

Sometimes it's better to not even touch the subject the a ten foot pole, and someone pushing.

Regards,
Micronazi

[Pook2]

I don't bother arguing with people over religion.

[ed316]

I don't care what people believe. Just don't try to impose your view on me cause I don't impose mine on you.

[Bia]

I don't care what people believe. Just don't try to impose your view on me cause I don't impose mine on you.
I'm nominating you for president of the world.

:)

[Redguy]

Just don't try to impose your view on me

Arn't you imposing a view there? that views shouldn't be imposed?

[panzerjager]

There was a thread here awhile back saying how crazy Scientology is because they believe in Xenu. I thought to myself, how is Xenu any more crazy then believing in a supreme being, envisioned by some folks living in a cave, floating above the Earth?

Anyway, Hail Xenu!!!!

[Pook2]

There was a thread here awhile back saying how crazy Scientology is because they believe in Xenu. I thought to myself, how is Xenu any more crazy then believing in a supreme being, envisioned by some folks living in a cave, floating above the Earth?

Anyway, Hail Xenu!!!!


Well, I'm sure some people believe in a supreme being floating above the earth, but most religious people don't.

[panzerjager]

Well, I'm sure some people believe in a supreme being floating above the earth, but most religious people don't.


ok, is the supreme being in an alternate dimension? What do most "religious people" believe? Feel free to paint with the wide brush.

[Hellfish]

When I went skydiving I saw God on a cloud. I said "hi" as I sped past him, but I don't think he heard me.

[Pook2]

ok, is the supreme being in an alternate dimension? What do most "religious people" believe? Feel free to paint with the wide brush.


The Christian God Yahweh is omnipresent, being everywhere at once. He sees everything basically.

[tsuri]

"Americans just aren't gullible enough to believe that they came from a fish," he said.

Haha best sentence ever. Apparently they are gullible enough to believe that an old man on a cloud whose very existence defies every law of nature magically made them.

Funniest thing today so far.

[Lazarou]

I also cannot see how someone can believe that we evolved into the extremely complex, autonomous organisms we are, just to eat, sh!t, sleep and die.
Science does not try to explain why but how. The evolution theory explains how we evolved - why is for religion(s) to solve. Creationism is the kind of crap we get when religious people start pondering how we evolved into what we are.

[ed316]

Arn't you imposing a view there? that views shouldn't be imposed?

Enlighten me, Oh mighty one. I'm a Buddhist that's my view and belief.

[DaGreatRV]

As long as they don't mistake it for reality it's fine by me.:)

But I an worried about the children who might belive this nonesense. :-(



BTW, The reason we are here is to make sure our species survives(preferably our own genes). We call that instinct :).
It includes: eating/drinking, ****ing/pissing, breathing, fighting/defending, procreating/raising kids. We do it all the time :).

[Quietscheentchen]

Science does not try to explain why but how. The evolution theory explains how we evolved - why is for religion(s) to solve.
true, something that the "blind" on both sides don't seem to recognize.

i believe in god myself, but i can't take this creationism-thing for real...people should differ between religion and science. don' try to mix it up.

[Seraphim]

Science does not try to explain why but how. The evolution theory explains how we evolved - why is for religion(s) to solve. Creationism is the kind of crap we get when religious people start pondering how we evolved into what we are.

Sounds like you read a previous post of mine about evolution. :)

[ElHombre]

Ham, an Australian native who started the Christian publishing company Answers in Genesis in the late 1970s, said the goal of his privately funded museum is to change minds and rebut the scientific point of view...

can we send him back? we produce enough ignorant loons (see: occupants of white house) without importing them. what's worse, i hear they're trying to set up a museum like this here in texas.


"Americans just aren't gullible enough to believe that they came from a fish," he said.

hey, dumba$$, it's not about belief. it's about evidence. whether you like it or not, we evolved from lower forms of life. some of us seem to have advanced farther than you.

[Lazarou]

Sounds like you read a previous post of mine about evolution. :)
Nah, I doubt that. I rarely read these crazy religious threads. :)

[wulfstan]

"Listen to me! You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen."

Quote from ................?

[Hellfish]

Fight Club. Duh. :p

[wulfstan]

Using IMDB.com quote finder is cheating.

[Hellfish]

I didn't. I remember that scene well.

[panzerjager]

hey, dumba$$, it's not about belief. it's about evidence. whether you like it or not, we evolved from lower forms of life. some of us seem to have advanced farther than you.

ElHombre knows because he was there when it happened and he has the elitist snob attitude to prove it.

[evanfitz]

I believe the existence of a God who will one day judge us all by our actions and they way we have lived.

nothing against evolutionaries but i am still yet be to convinced with the theory when it has so many holes and constantly is changed, but im no scientist either.

[Hellfish]

What holes in evolution?

[DaGreatRV]

What holes in evolution?


indeed, evolution has a VERY strong case.
For instance: Fossils, inheritance/genetics, logic, etc..


I think people just want to feel special, that they are not just monkeys with larger brains and walk upright.
Ohno, we have a 'soul' (whatever they mean by that) and the world is going to end in our lifetimes. They just want to be special!

[Hellfish]

We have cognitive thought, which is kind of like having a soul. Why can't the religious folks who believe that God created the Earth in 7 days 8000 years ago instead adopt the idea that maybe we evolved because God liked us better than he liked the Neanderthals? Remember - Neos were an entirely different species that looked remarkably like us.

[americanbychoice]

What holes in evolution?Holes? The process itself is relatively simple... reproductive pressures over time tend to favor certain mutations, and over a long enough time span you can possibly get a lion out of a lamprey.

Especially when you can compare current lamprey to shark to fish to rodent to cat to pig anatomy... things make sense when you can look at morphological similarities between elements of circulatory systems, muscular structures, bone structures.

Connecting the dots from early chordates to things with a cartilaginous skeleton to early vertebrates to this to that to the other, AND assigning it all to points in time, AND saying that it necessarily leads from something lamprey-like directly to homo sapiens... now that can be a sketchy process of picking out magical "MISSING LINK"s out of the fossil record (especially if we have no idea what or how those piles of bones actually lived & had impact on the potential evolution of any current species).

I think the holes are in assigning meaning to observation (assigning the "why" to the "how", as discussed earlier in the thread).

"Who am I?" and "Why am I here?" are two of the big navel-gazing questions that we usually end up asking ourselves about ourselves.

With the whole "cult of science" (science knows all, and can explain all that there is), evolution becomes more of an answer to "Why am I here?" And it's in that where the holes really appear, IMO.

[c62]

We have cognitive thought, which is kind of like having a soul. Why can't the religious folks who believe that God created the Earth in 7 days 8000 years ago instead adopt the idea that maybe we evolved because God liked us better than he liked the Neanderthals? Remember - Neos were an entirely different species that looked remarkably like us.Why do we have cognitive thought and no other animal? Why only man(homo sapien)? and not neaderthals? Why didn't the dinasaurs evolve and have cognitive thought, they had 180 million years to do that(humans have only been around about 5 or so million years)? These are a few questions I came up with off the top of my head, given some thought, I could come up with better.

Before you tag me with the ID label, I don't think a complete answer has been put forth to explain our existance. I could easily punch holes in both ideas.

[Hellfish]

Why do we have cognitive thought and no other animal? Why only man(homo sapien)? and not neaderthals? Why didn't the dinasaurs evolve and have cognitive thought, they had 180 million years to do that(humans have only been around about 5 or so million years)? These are a few questions I came up with off the top of my head, given some thought, I could come up with better.

Before you tag me with the ID label, I don't think a complete answer has been put forth to explain our existance. I could easily punch holes in both ideas.

Very good question. Maybe neanderthals did have cognitive thought? Who knows? Anatomically they were remarkably similar to us, but with slightly smaller brains.

As for the dinosaurs - I'm not a trained biologist. I couldn't begin to tell you all the factors that might have led up to why dino's didn't. But maybe the reason they didn't is also the reason we did - remember that there were mammals around the same time. Mammals had to be just a little bit smarter to survive amongst such creatures. It just so happens that our adaptations allowed us to survive the great extinction.

Good questions.

[americanbychoice]

The evolution of human consciousness (as a highly refined state of being versus purely instinctive reactionism to one's environment)... it was a very special event.

I'm not sure we fully understand our own consciousness, but I am no expert either.

Why are we self-conscious about who and what we are? Is it just truly random events, or is there some fate that led us to this point?

To go back to the religious aspects...
The story in the Book of Genesis about man's fall from the state of grace has been compared to the evolution of human consciousness & conscience.

Prior to eating the fruit, the man & the woman were naked and "were not ashamed".

After eating of the fruit, "the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked" (Genesis 3.7)... it is just a marvelous line - that first realization, that they suddenly knew that they weren't just animals in a garden, and that they knew shame.

/thinking about the blissful ignorance of lesser animals... is our consciousness the real obstacle between ourselves and paradise/Eden/Nirvana?

[LaoSexMachine]

Nirvana is a state of mind in which you are everwhere and no where at the same time.


Because nibbana is used to denote not only the Buddhist goal, but also the extinguishing of a fire, it is usually rendered as "extinguishing" or, even worse, "extinction." However, a study of ancient Indian views of the workings of fire (see The Mind Like Fire Unbound) reveals that people of the Buddha's time felt that a fire, in going out, did not go out of existence but was simply freed from its agitation, entrapment, and attachment to its

pratyeka.org/a2i/canon/sutta/khuddaka/dhp/glossary.html (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=define&q=http://pratyeka.org/a2i/canon/sutta/khuddaka/dhp/glossary.html)

[americanbychoice]

Nirvana is a state of mind in which you are everwhere and no where at the same time.
And your conscious understanding of where you are, where you have been, where you are going... this is an obstacle to achieving Nirvana, isn't it?

Being able to know such things without knowing, being Mind without Mind, you can become enlightened... but the necessity to process it, to go through the conscious process of knowing, this prevents you from really knowing where you can be.

... I am more a fan of the Lin qi/Rinzai school, myself.

It's in that intuitive grasp of immediate understanding... striking without doubt, shouting down your Master without fear... that's the moment of clarity, when you can subvert your human nature and achieve Buddha nature.

(Maybe real soldiers can talk about how being conscious of what you are doing (rather than doing drills so it becomes second nature) can equate to difficulty & hesitation in a critical moment... I have no such experience)

Anyway, this is what I'm talking about when I mentioned human consciousness as an obstacle to Nirvana. (I don't think it is just a Zen/Rinzai school concept, but I can also be very wrong sometimes)

[LaoSexMachine]

I don't presribe to Chinese philosphy since I'm Lao. Nirvana is when you can be free of lust, craving, and anger. Three most damaging feelings a person can have. Nirvana is not the everyday happiness we know but something that transcend happiness that is a key to one's calmness. Basically seeing what reality is. One step to acheiving Nirvana is to accept and confront what is inside you and to face yourself. One must keep his house in order before he can keep the world in order.

[IronFinn]

Why do we have cognitive thought and no other animal? Why only man(homo sapien)? and not neaderthals?

Neanderthals buried their dead with flowers and stuff, I assume that qualifies with cognitive thought. Also dolphins have, according to recent studies, names which they use to identify themselves and they call each others by name when they want to get someones attention.

[IronFinn]

Very good question. Maybe neanderthals did have cognitive thought? Who knows? Anatomically they were remarkably similar to us, but with slightly smaller brains.


Actually neanderthals had larger brains than we do, there was just a difference with the structure of the brain (don´t remember what it was).


Why didn't the dinasaurs evolve and have cognitive thought, they had 180 million years to do that(humans have only been around about 5 or so million years)?

I recall reading from somewhere that we have discovered only about 1 - 5 % of the dinosaurs ever lived. Who know how far they reached on the evelutionary ladder, since being intelligent doesn´t necessary mean you need to drive a car. Remember that the destruction of the dinosaurs was so massive that not even humans might have lived through it.

[DaGreatRV]

Why do we have cognitive thought and no other animal? Why only man(homo sapien)? and not neaderthals? Why didn't the dinasaurs evolve and have cognitive thought, they had 180 million years to do that(humans have only been around about 5 or so million years)? These are a few questions I came up with off the top of my head, given some thought, I could come up with better.

Before you tag me with the ID label, I don't think a complete answer has been put forth to explain our existance. I could easily punch holes in both ideas.

Well, a mutation pops up, it gives an advantage to this person that make him/her survive better, procreate more and fight better.
If it works, it sticks.
For instance if you compare a human females breasts to an Ape's breasts you'll see that the ape has an AA cup and the woman not.
This is because of the way we (most of the time) have ***. Apes do it 'doggystyle', humans 'missionary position'. The ape's can focus on the ass, but we couldn't because of some emotial reason (love) we wanted to see the face of our partner. But we needed a replacement for the ass, so we focussed on the breasts, the ones with larger breasts are more attractive(have more ***) so they're 'big breast' genes are passed on.
Same works for a man's *****, if you compare a human ***** to a gorrillas ***** you can see that a human ***** is larger, this is also because women preferd that, so the 'big *****' genes got passed on.

I could name some more, but I don't feel like typing for the rest of my life. :)

[Hellfish]

Actually neanderthals had larger brains than we do, there was just a difference with the structure of the brain (don´t remember what it was).



I recall reading from somewhere that we have discovered only about 1 - 5 % of the dinosaurs ever lived. Who know how far they reached on the evelutionary ladder, since being intelligent doesn´t necessary mean you need to drive a car. Remember that the destruction of the dinosaurs was so massive that not even humans might have lived through it.

What do you mean only 1-5% of the dinosaurs ever lived?

[DeadMeatXM2]

What do you mean only 1-5% of the dinosaurs ever lived?

I think he means "only 1-5% of the dinosaurs THAT ever lived"

i.e. We haven't found the rest yet.

[Hellfish]

I was in Chicago on Sunday and I spent most of the day at the Field Museum of Natural History. I forgot how absolutely fascinating dinosaurs and the ice age fossils could be. Amazing to see what lived on our planet in some cases less than 5000 years ago. Even more interesting to think that some people still believe that some of these creatures still exist in isolated areas.

[ed316]

One must keep his house in order before he can keep the world in order.

Well said.

[Quietscheentchen]

Well, a mutation pops up, it gives an advantage to this person that make him/her survive better, procreate more and fight better.
If it works, it sticks.
For instance if you compare a human females breasts to an Ape's breasts you'll see that the ape has an AA cup and the woman not.
This is because of the way we (most of the time) have ***. Apes do it 'doggystyle', humans 'missionary position'. The ape's can focus on the ass, but we couldn't because of some emotial reason (love) we wanted to see the face of our partner. But we needed a replacement for the ass, so we focussed on the breasts, the ones with larger breasts are more attractive(have more ***) so they're 'big breast' genes are passed on.
Same works for a man's *****, if you compare a human ***** to a gorrillas ***** you can see that a human ***** is larger, this is also because women preferd that, so the 'big *****' genes got passed on.

I could name some more, but I don't feel like typing for the rest of my life. :)
reminds me on a film we watched in our biology class, it was a documentation about the ****** behaviour of the bonobo-chimps...well it was more of a ****:lol: ...there is anger in the group? well, let's have ***... some individuals are frusted? go and have fun with some others...it was really amazing...kama sutra of mother nature.

[IronFinn]

I think he means "only 1-5% of the dinosaurs THAT ever lived"

i.e. We haven't found the rest yet.

Yes, thats it. You have to excuse my english, I´m not native.

[Hellfish]

Ah, no problem. Just wanted clarification. I didn't know if you were talking about the proportion of dinosaurs that have been discovered or the proportion of those that survived the great extinction. :)