You have to admit...

[K2-Kelly]

You have to admit, like him or not, right or wrong, politics aside that Fidel Castro has always stuck to his guns even under continued pressure. Hope he does well after surgery as I think he's "earned" the right to have an era end by his choice over all others even nature. Already some governments are planning out how they can pounce....Naturally to "free the people only" :roll:

http://charter.net/news/read.php?ps=1018&id=12983741&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCLM_UNEWS

[Macs.]

I hope a Piano falls on his dead.

One out of metal.

With knives inside.

[The_Frans_Bauer_3000]

I hope a Piano falls on his dead.

One out of metal.

With knives inside.You've changed, I do not regonize you anymore.

[Macs.]

Sometimes I have to speak out in the name of Conglon-B.

It is my wish.

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

I hope a Piano falls on his dead.

One out of metal.

With knives inside.

That would be acoustically limited.

[Fargin]

If Fidel hadn't kicked out the corrupt companies like Coke'O Cola and the mob casinoes. You guys could have enjoyed the worlds finest cigars out in the free streets of America, without feeling like little guilty communist sympathizers. ;)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Yeah, well I understand that Hitler stuck to his guns too, even under pressure - doesn't exactly mean he deserves the love of his people.

In reality though, Castro is no ideologue, except when it comes to other people making sacrifices. Like Kim in NK, he espouses austerity, dresses in costume, constructs a personality cult around him and his familiars (like Che Guevara the "great military leader") - his people wallow in lifestyles reminiscent of the bottom 5% of those in the US, while his personal fortune and lifestyle is in the hundreds of millions. I hope he gets what's coming to him - which is a Clinton-scale cigar humping.

[Fargin]

Compairing Castro to Hitler, is like compairing Bush to Hitler. Great entertainment, but not much interlectual value. Compairing anyone to the killer of +6.000.000 civilians, well you'd have to look backwards in time, not to current day's Fidel.

[Lazy Lob]

I bet he's got a "lost world" type eco-system in that bush on his chin. Bits of fried egg and all.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Compairing Castro to Hitler, is like compairing Bush to Hitler. Great entertainment, but not much interlectual value. Compairing anyone to the killer of +6.000.000 civilians, well you'd have to look backwards in time, not to current day's Fidel.

Not a comparison - a simple exercise in redctio ad absurdum - where Hitler is always extremely useful. We can all presumably agree that Hitler was a prick. Well, he did exactly what K2-Kelly said was praiseworthy - sticking to his guns to the last. Therefore, when I show that Hitler did it, and was (and still is) a prick, it shows that sticking to your guns in not in and of itself something that makes you wonderful. If it was, we'd all think Hitler was swell. Now if Castro and Hitler had done good things with their lives, and stuck to their guns, I'd have different opinions of both.

[.666 Caliber]

I bet he's got a "lost world" type eco-system in that bush on his chin. Bits of fried egg and all.

roflGood one.............rofl

[wicked_hind]

If Fidel hadn't kicked out the corrupt companies like Coke'O Cola and the mob casinoes. You guys could have enjoyed the worlds finest cigars out in the free streets of America, without feeling like little guilty communist sympathizers. ;)

I don't know about being a Communist Sympathizer by saying this, but man would I love to try a Cuban smoke

[Pook2]

I don't know about being a Communist Sympathizer by saying this, but man would I love to try a Cuban smoke


Its ok, some are good and some are just like any other cigar.

[ZaakM433]

Not agreed, castro is an icky man.

[K2-Kelly]

Can't say that I agree with most of you.......Though I said politics aside except for any that do or have lived in Cuba for most of the rest of us it simply boils down to not wanting to associate with the enemy. Truth of the matter is Cuba since Europe's expansion centuries ago was simply "used" by world powers. Now I'm no expert on the subject, yet a quick online search yielded this if you'd like to investigate it further as a possible start...

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/toc.html

All that really counts though past the nation being often a pawn or manipulated would be did the Cuban people suffer (as big deal if it made the Americans quiver)? Sure they did, be it the regime or the flawed execution of good intentions it doesn't matter.....Once again though as I said being no expert I'd assume many were persecuted as well......However, I would also guess things improved for some, and though not the ideal was much better then conditions in some neighboring countries.


My issue however the end of an era.....Not Castro so much as the Cold War though recognized as over for some time. Policies enacted against this tiny nation still enforced even though it has been changing for quite some time with foreign businesses, investments and visitors. Cuba of the mid 60's-70's is long gone yet still how many perceive it.......The fear I have for it much like what I have seen in Jamaica. The culture there really changing around 2000, the gap between poor and wealthy becoming even wider as foreign business gobbles up local. If you read the "generic" news article however you'd of seen never the less how governments are already trying to figure out how they can sweep in and "help the people"....(meaning, gobble up the country to do the same as though Cubans are now simply a new labor resource and Cuba a frontier for corporate expansion).

My point never the less this........Castro good or bad, right or wrong won. He did not sell out on his beliefs, did not give in, yet gradually Cuba HAS been changing as it desperately needed to. By NO means was he a Hitler as one eludes to, nor by far even like some of the oppressive governments near, and all in all I doubt that his intentions were anything but good though as said poorly executed and corrupted by those that supported him in the cold war (not that the old Communist or even Capitalistic governments would ever do such a thing in a foreign land :roll: ).

Yet here he is......still kicking. Give a bit of credit where credit is due. You don't have to admire him, agree with, or approve of him........Yet it makes me smile how without aggressive conflict, he's still treated as a loathsome enemy of the free world. Quite an accomplishment to still make world powers consider you as such by doing nothing to provoke it.

So though not agreeing with him or his policies, I'll still respect the man for not selling out and simply by "being" causing world powers to tremble.

(waits for the "ridiculous" terrorist leader comparisons to come)

[Trigger]

...(long, convoluted part)...So though not agreeing with him or his policies, I'll still respect the man for not selling out and simply by "being" causing world powers to tremble....

Well, a bucket full of maggots can have the same effect. It's just there. Just 'being' and would make most people tremble (mostly because it's just nasty). Although I doubt most people would 'respect' it. Whatever floats your boat, I guess...

[titget]

Yet here he is......still kicking. Give a bit of credit where credit is due.

I'll give credit where it is due..but this man deserves no credit..no respect..nothing in my opinion..My ex's family was from Cuba..the stories he told me of what they had to go through are horrible..I'll reserve my credit and respect for those who chose to do good with their power..not just 'stick to their guns' any stubborn idiot can 'stick to their guns' ..that's nothing to be commended for. Just my .02

[Macs.]

Yet here he is......still kicking. Give a bit of credit where credit is due.

No credit needed for this old asshole.

He is in the same league as the old GDR-Rulers. They don't deserve one bit of respect for what they have done.

They are nothing more then criminals.

[mudbunny]

Fidel is gonna have some things to answer for in the next life.

[EvanL]

Fidel is gonna have some things to answer for in the next life.
Yes. Like his incredibly high mobile bill!

[Hot Lips]

I don't have to admit anything! :p

[TuNeRsHaRk]

I bet he's got a "lost world" type eco-system in that bush on his chin. Bits of fried egg and all.

and on the bottom of the forest lies a layer of cuban cigar resin 3 inches thick

[2Sheds_Jackson]

My point never the less this........Castro good or bad, right or wrong won.

Well, er, that depends upon what you think the contest was. If you take Castro's self-obsessed view that it's all about him, and that he is paramount in all this, then yes. He'll probably still be wearing his silly green Halloween outfit when his colon finally falls out like a wet teabag hitting the floor.

I dunno, you may look at it a different way, but I can't agree that he won anything but a victory for his own megalomania. Kind of like if I kidnapped somebody and put them in a plywood box and made them worship me for 30 years, then I died of old age. Woo I win! In-your-face world!

[Macs.]

Next she is gonna ask for credit for the chinese dog clubbers !

[HoboWithAK]

Thank God that Macs and Gypsum are always ready to jump in and partake in the discussion with their humor and wit.

I think his time has come. About time to have him replaced, hopefully by the people of Cuba.

[signatory]

I don't care about Castro or Cuba at all. There I said it. omfgs so terribly un-P.C of me.

[California Joe]

My frame of referrence for Cuba is from my time in Florida during college and my Father having been 50 years old when I was born. He spent a lot of time in Miami in his youth and flew to Cuba on the weekends for 20 bucks round trip when it was basically tropical Vegas. There are many fabrications about Cuba told over the years. Someone posted a brilliant article a while ago that had been thoroughly researched about how the revolution was in no way fermented nor condoned by the lower class, it was the children of the rich elite types and college educated class that decided they would put into practice what they had learned at school. They got f*cked. Castro is a dictator. Pure and simple. There is a happy medium he has chosen to ignore. The other side of the coin is the virulent anti Castro types which have become a powerful lobby in this country. Their hatred of Castro and lack of caring about their people left behind is pathetic.

[Macs.]

Castro also gets transported across europe each summer, and there are always some guys protesting.

[Jurpula]

"You have to admit..."

No i don't...

[toki]

No credit needed for this old asshole.
He is in the same league as the old GDR-Rulers. They don't deserve one bit of respect for what they have done.
They are nothing more then criminals.
Good point, even here (i mean germany as a whole not the west) some people have this GDR-nostalgia, this awww it wasn't that bad. "Dictatorship-light". They tend to forget that people were prisoner in their own country, you got shot or prison time for trying to leave it. They had pretty disgusting political prisons (I got some first hand accounts from the father of a former workmate.) And the 'Betonköpfe' (= Concreteheads) who ran this state were criminals for treating people like they did. And if some eastener comes to me with an argument that the GDR had its good parts i'm tempted to say "Yes and under Adolf everybody had work". People forget easily. Of course people had their life and tried to live it as normal as possible, but this nostalgia leads nowhere.

[gtronin]

well, I am not really a follower of the whole a dead fidel is a good fidel theme. I mean as a system, which by no means is perfect, it seems to me that fidel didnt do too bad considering the limitations he had. I mean look at the dominican republic, that place is worse off than cuba. Just sayin' looking at the UN Human development index its actually better off than most counties in central and south america, so he cant be doing everything wrong.
fidel is no pol pot, hitler, stalin, kim etc.

[Lazy Lob]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9228/060802castroectomyxhp8.gif