View Full Version : Mi-28N
Kingpin
03-30-2004, 02:24 AM
This gunship recently approved for Russian army and first already in production. Letter N here is important 'cause N means "night" :)
All photos from www.foxbat.ru
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi019.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi017.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi020.jpg
http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/2003/mi/mi021.jpg
Guttorm
03-30-2004, 04:23 AM
Nice, very nice!
I've always loved the look of Russian weaponry, it has a more, organic, look too it then the western ones.
HELEX
03-30-2004, 04:35 AM
What is that "Container" on the left outer pylon?
n_shanygin
03-30-2004, 05:30 AM
Maybe missiles or something.
mustamato
03-30-2004, 05:46 AM
Ah superb stuff. The Nordic countries will probably buy the Tiger in a couple
of years, but a Mi-28 with western (Finnish Nokia :) ) technology would be the
king. Looks like the turret mounted gun has a bayonet. I don´t think the "box-
like" pod is a missile, I guess more that it´s a pod with hm, mines? Used to
destroy landing strips or something like that? Wild speculation.
George W. Bush
03-30-2004, 05:53 AM
Is that a Baltika tent in the background? Mmmm.. beer and helicopters.
dumdidum
03-30-2004, 06:37 AM
Looks like the turret mounted gun has a bayonet.
The bayonet is a pitot tube. I wonder if its a really good idea to have it mounted that close to the mussel.
Kingpin
03-30-2004, 06:42 AM
Looks like the turret mounted gun has a bayonet.
The bayonet is a pitot tube. I wonder if its a really good idea to have it mounted that close to the mussel.
It was mounted on this particular helo. For some tests i suppose. It is not standard attachment :)
ibstolidude
03-30-2004, 08:10 AM
That is a huge Baltika tent!
must be the russian Fest-tent.
Lysander
03-30-2004, 09:28 AM
Awsome looking machine. woot
I, too, am curious as to what the "container" is for. It might have test equipment or something like that in it?
It isn't visible in the picture, however, IIRC there is a hatch (in the picture it is hidden by the container) that can be used to carry two or three men or gear. The soldiers would not be comfortable in the small space, but it could be used in an emergency.
MaDuce
03-30-2004, 09:36 AM
oooo a fat Hind
flanker7
03-30-2004, 09:44 AM
What is that "Container" on the left outer pylon?
I think that the container is used for the same reason as on the Ka-50 which is to transport tools and spares for field deployments(away from it's base).
Stavka
03-30-2004, 09:49 AM
That is quite a sweetlooking chopper.
Would like to see some more russiantech in our army tho.
*takes cover for incoming pummeling*
No, seriously, look at the BMP for instance! Aint that a sweetie! :)
el_kab0ng
03-30-2004, 11:18 AM
Good ol' Russian design. Ungainly and ugly...but functional.
usa320
03-30-2004, 11:49 AM
Its good by Russian standards, buts its night attack ability is far outdated when compared to the AH-64 or even late Model AH-1W's and Z's.
That is one evil looking gunship.
RomanS
03-30-2004, 02:18 PM
Gorgeous bird
Russian Texan
03-30-2004, 02:36 PM
Its good by Russian standards, buts its night attack ability is far outdated when compared to the AH-64 or even late Model AH-1W's and Z's.
Wrong, it has already been discussed here before why.
Sorry for the hurt feelings ;)
Kingpin
03-31-2004, 02:42 AM
Today was in news: we'll buy 50 such birds until 2010. Not much but at least something.
Catch22
03-31-2004, 02:50 AM
I posted it some time ago - Russia ordered some 52 Mils and still is considering about a dozen of Kamovs 52. Even in our military press I read recently article titled "Putin politics pays off" - with regard to Russian weapon export politics. Guess the Suchoi holding is the most sucessfull.
As far as the "suitcase" looking thing on the left hardpoint IIRC (95%) is the testing equipment suite. That thing records processes and analyses flight data.
regards.
Z.S.
Gorgeous birdIt's look reminds Your present avatar... It's definitely not the beauty, but IMHO still better designed than Kamov... Why the heck You buy Mils and Kamovs at the same time? Isn't that a logistical nightmare?
Well, right now RF's VVS and Naval aviation operates both Mil's and Kamovs with little logistical problems. So another 50 Mi-25N and 10 Kamovs (for "special purposes") are not going to make things any worse. Given proper financing should be no problem - both types are manufactured inside the country.
Z.S.
So Kamovs will be bought for "special purposes"... what kind of? I thought that Mil's (25N) and Kamovs (50/52) will be purchased in equal numbers and that both are attack (AT) helos... so one is equivalent to other as it comes to capabilities and designation.
BTW what a strange type of the tail rotor is this?
No, not equal numbers after all. Mi-28N (not 25N) will be used as primary anti-tank/attack helo while Ka-50/52 will be used for "covert" operations. RF Ministry of Defence did not elaborate on nature, time and location of those operations - what a bastard, eh? :roll:
As far as the rotor... not sure what's strange about it? It was tested on Mi-28 and Mi-24 and proved to be the most effective for that design- so they installed it. Can you blame them? :|
regards.
Z.S.
No, not equal numbers after all. Mi-28N (not 25N) will be used as primary anti-tank/attack helo while Ka-50/52 will be used for "covert" operations. RF Ministry of Defence did not elaborate on nature, time and location of those operations - what a bastard, eh? :roll:
regards.
Z.S.
Question rather is what capabilities has Ka 50/52 that Mil 25N doesn't have...? What special purposes can it be suitable that Mil 25N can not?... Unless it is a some kind of state "sponsorship" of the rejected design's manufacturer... :D
Aha... I still wonder what a strange tail rotor it is... :roll:
Good question... and the answer is - I dont really know. The debates of "Mi-28N vs. Ka-50" raged and still are raging all over the net and, my guess, in Ministry of Defence too. I've read that Mi-28N is superior to Kamov's design in weapons systems, handling and safety (one of the reasons Kamov embraced traditional helo design for his Ka-60) However, Ka-50 got his battle experience in Chechnya and it perfotmed admirably. While Mi-28N (not 25 !!!) never fired a shot in anger. Besides Ka-50 proved to be undemanding in maintenance and can be used without it for 2 weeks. I think it comes down to logic. Best helo's in the world are "traditional" while cooxal design has advantages in the naval setting. I believe that the "special" role is reserved to Ka-50 because it looks so damn cool. Besides in case Mi-28N proves to be not battle worthy - no bridges burned.
If you want technical stats on that rotor you are going to need to find some engineers, while I am not.
hope that helps.
Z.S.
Backis
03-31-2004, 05:53 AM
Why the heck You buy Mils and Kamovs at the same time? Isn't that a logistical nightmare?
A little guess:
Both types are bought to secure testing and development runs of the types so they will remain viable products on the export market.
The numbers purchased are very limited as well (relative to the usual numbers of Russian forces), wich seems to suggest that this is still a sort of advanced system evaluation.
While Mi-28N (not 25 !!!) never fired a shot in anger.
Z.S.My obvious and stupid mistake... :oops:
flickme
03-31-2004, 09:03 AM
Nice. :P
RuSoKaR
03-31-2004, 08:10 PM
Today was in news: we'll buy 50 such birds until 2010. Not much but at least something.
who is we?
btw I found a video about this chopper which is went to the mass production, and Russian Air force is planning to get about 100 of them, 3 will enter in closest days.
Video: mms://video.rfn.ru/rtr-vesti/30236.asf
another video about this chopper: http://www.army.lv/Video/Tehnika/Mi-28/mi28.wmv
woot woot
George W. Bush
03-31-2004, 08:25 PM
Video says that the helo is resistant to 30mm hits? Huh?
SerbPVO
03-31-2004, 08:29 PM
Russia needs at least 1,000 of such choppers, though 50 is a good start :D
Russian Texan
03-31-2004, 09:35 PM
Video says that the helo is resistant to 30mm hits? Huh?
You are not mistaken, that what the test pilot said.
Although common notion before was the ability to withstand 12.7mm/DSHK rounds but it was Mi 28, so I guess they added some more armor or used different grade of it on 28N.
Important thing and good news, for Russia, like the general said: "They are relatively cheap". Army is going to buy total of several hundred Mi28N.
Does anyone know if Russian army uses Mi 28?
SerbPVO
03-31-2004, 10:12 PM
Latest news - New Mi-28N first flight, total 300 planned
Fifth Generation Mi-28N Helicopter Makes First Flight
The first pre-series Mi-28N helicopter assembled at the Rostvertol plant made its first flight today [30.03.04]. Tomorrow the official demonstration of this aircraft in the air will take place, a factory representative from Rostov-on-Don reported by telephone to an ARMS-TASS correspondent.
The round-the-clock all-weather Mi-28N strike helicopter is regarded as a fifth generation combat complex. It is intended for fighting with an enemy's tanks, armor and personnel, the destruction of defended objects and damage of spaced targets, including defensive structures, and combat with high-speed and low-flying aircraft. It can be used during peace-keeping and anti-terrorist operations. The “Ataka” air-to-surface and "Igla” air-to-air missiles, the movable NPPU-28N 30-milimeter cannon installation and a suspended container with the GSh-23L 23-milimeter cannon are included in the Mi-28N’s guided weapons complex.
Source: 30.03.04, ITAR-TASS
“Night Hunters” Will Reach Russia’s Military
New examples of the Mi-28N “Night Hunter” will reach the inventory of the Russian military in 2 years, Russian presidential advisor, Aleksandr Burutin, announced at the Rostvertol plant in Rostov and who had arrived at the enterprise for participation in the tests of the second flying example of the Mi-28.
“It is planned that the first combat examples of the Mi-28 helicopter are supposed to appear in the Russian military’s inventory in 2 – 3 years, they will replace the well-known Mi-24, which is nicknamed the flying tank," Burutin said.
According to him, OAO Rostvertol is the helicopter’s lead executor. Development of the Mi-28N helicopter based on the Mi-28 was begun in 1993.
Burutin noted that the principle difference of the Mi-28N from the Mi-28 combat helicopter consists of the fact that a completely new integrated complex of aircraft equipment created by domestic developers is installed on the new aircraft.
“The basis of its combat usage is flight at night at extremely low altitudes,” Burutin emphasized. He said that “at the present time the Mi-28N is the only helicopter in the world which is capable to realize flight in automatic mode at an altitude from 5 meters with terrain following both day and night. This allows successfully using it in theaters of military actions which are distinguished by a saturation of anti-air defense.”
It should be noted especially that what is included in the circular scan aircraft equipment (the radar) provides the helicopter the capability to search for targets and in contrast with the radar of the American AH-64 “Apache” helicopter is able to provide resolution of flight navigational tasks.
Moreover, in the Mi-28N arsenal the newest powerful armament is provided. “This is the supersonic precision “Ataka” guided missile, which destroys tanks with reactive armor [DINAMICHESKAYA ZASHCHITA BRONI] and also aerial targets. The supersonic “Igla” guided air-to-air missile, which is used on the “fire and forget” principle. A cannon installation with the 2A42 30-milimeter cannon. Thanks to the selective cannon feed, the crew can select the type of round immediately at the time of the fight. The airman aims with the aid of a helmet-mounted targeting system,” Burutin said.
“It is impossible not to mention also the achievements of the helicopter being developed in the provision of combat survivability of the aircraft and crew safety. The crew’s cockpit has tandem layout of the pilots’ seats. The cockpit is fully armored and the cockpit glazing sustains a direct hit of 12.7 millimeter round," he added.
The president’s advisor also reported that new developments in the area of helicopter construction are underway also at the Kamov design bureau. “Included is a helicopter, which is capable of detecting all types of aerial targets, all the way to cruise missiles, at great distances, the Ka-60 helicopter, and the twin-seat military multirole all-weather Ka-52 helicopter, which is able to be a competitor to the Mi-28N," Burutin noted.
In Burutin’s opinion, “today we can talk about the suspension of the systematic economic crisis and the revival of the defense industry.”
According to him, the state defense order has grown by 20 percent in 2004 in comparison with 2003, a new state arms program is being developed in which will be stipulated, also the adoption into the inventory of the Mi-28N and Ka-52.
As an RIA Novosti correspondent is reporting from the location of the tests, at the present time the “Night Hunter is in the air and completing a planned flight program.
Source: 31.03.04, RIA Novosti
Russia’s Defense Ministry Intends to Order 300 New Mi-28N “Night Hunter” Combat Helicopters
Russia’s defense ministry intends to order 300 new Mi-28N “Night Hunter” combat helicopters, Russia’s air force commander-in-chief, General of the Army Vladimir Mikhaylov, reported to journalists after flight tests of the new aircraft at the Rostvertol enterprise.
“There are no counterparts to this helicopter in the world, all components of this aircraft are fully of Russian manufacture," the CinC emphasized. According to him, it is planned to deliver 50 of the helicopters to the armed forces as early as 2010.
The Mi-28N strike helicopter is a fourth generation combat complex. It was developed using the experience of the creation and combat use at OAO Moscow Mil’ Helicopter Plant and built at OAO Rostvertol.
“The Mi-28N construction program is the largest domestic aviation program being realized in which the leading enterprises of Russia's defense industrial complex took part along with the lead developer," the general director of the Rostvertol enterprise, Boris Slyusar', reported in turn.
According to him, at the present time a pre-production batch of these helicopters has been started, and their assembly is underway in the shops of the enterprise.
Russian presidential advisor, Aleksandr Burutin, in Rostov for tests of the “Night Hunter,” reported that the new examples of the Mi-28N helicopter will reach the Russian military inventory in 2 years.
“It is planned that the first combat examples of the Mi-28 helicopter are supposed to appear in the Russian military’s inventory in 2 – 3 years, they will replace the well-known Mi-24, which is nicknamed the flying tank,” Burutin said.
According to him, the principle difference of the Mi-28N from the Mi-28 combat helicopter consists of the fact that a completely new integrated complex of aircraft equipment created by domestic developers is installed on the new aircraft.
“The basis of its combat usage is flight at night at extremely low altitudes,” Burutin emphasized.
At the present time the Mi-28N is the only helicopter in the world which is capable to realize flight in automatic mode at an altitude from 5 meters with terrain following both day and night. This allows successfully using it in theaters of military actions which are distinguished by a saturation of anti-air defense,” the president’s advisor said.
According to him, in the Mi-28N arsenal the newest powerful armament is provided. “This is the supersonic precision “Ataka” guided missile, which destroys tanks with reactive armor [DINAMICHESKAYA ZASHCHITA BRONI] and also aerial targets. The supersonic “Igla” guided air-to-air missile, which is used on the “fire and forget” principle. A cannon installation with the 2A-42 30-milimeter cannon. Thanks to the selective cannon feed, the crew can select the type of round immediately at the time of the fight. The airman aims with the aid of a helmet-mounted targeting system,” Burutin reported.
“It is impossible not to mention also the achievements of the helicopter being developed in the provision of combat survivability of the aircraft and crew safety. The crew’s cockpit has tandem layout of the pilots’ seats. The cockpit is fully armored and the cockpit glazing sustains a direct hit of 12.7 millimeter round," he added.
The president’s advisor also reported that new developments in the area of helicopter construction are underway also at the Kamov design bureau. “Included is a new helicopter, which is capable of detecting all types of aerial targets, all the way to cruise missiles, at great distances, the Ka-60 helicopter, and the twin-seat military multirole all-weather Ka-52 helicopter, which is able to be a competitor to the Mi-28N, “ he specified.
“Today we can talk about the suspension of the systematic economic crisis and the revival of the defense industry,” Burutin thinks.
According to him, the state defense order has grown by 20 percent in 2004 in comparison with 2003, a new state arms program is being developed in which will be stipulated, also the adoption into the inventory of the Mi-28N and Ka-52.
Source: 31.03.04, RIA Novosti
Russian Texan
03-31-2004, 10:23 PM
MI 28N is not 5th but 4th generation.
There seem to be some confusion going on among news reporters: it didn't make its first flight yesterday.
This video is atleast 3 years old
http://www.aviation.ru/www.rusarm.ru/video/Mi-28.wmv
I think yesterday was the first flight of the production model
Kingpin
04-01-2004, 12:55 AM
Video says that the helo is resistant to 30mm hits? Huh?
You are not mistaken, that what the test pilot said.
Although common notion before was the ability to withstand 12.7mm/DSHK rounds but it was Mi 28, so I guess they added some more armor or used different grade of it on 28N.
Important thing and good news, for Russia, like the general said: "They are relatively cheap". Army is going to buy total of several hundred Mi28N.
Does anyone know if Russian army uses Mi 28?
Wrong.
Sides of cockpit withstand 30 mm
Front window - 12.7 mm
Side windows - 7.62 mm
There is couple of fantastic articles in last Soldier of Fortune (Russian Edition) dedicated to comparison of Mi-28 and Ka-50. If someone need them i can scan (it is in Russian).
Actually abstract is following: Ka-50 is very unusual helicopter with unique design. Coaxial rotors employed only by Russian military helos for example. Main gun mounted on one side in center of fuselage (compare this to standard mounting to nose. Ejecting seat. One pilot. And so on so on. Every feature have a lot of advantages and... disadvantages.
I'm not very fluent in English to speak about such specific matters so investigate on your own please.
Mi-28 from other side rather standard helicopter but its design ideas already battle proven by Hind, Apache and other helos.
Russian Texan
04-01-2004, 01:01 AM
Soldier of Fortune
:cantbeli: :lol:
I'd like to see the article though.
Why would they compare it to Ka 50, wouldn't Ka 52 be more natural/equal competitor?
Kingpin
04-01-2004, 01:21 AM
Soldier of Fortune
:cantbeli: :lol:
I'd like to see the article though.
Why would they compare it to Ka 50, wouldn't Ka 52 be more natural/equal competitor?
:) Russian SoF have very few similar with US one. Ka-52 is response to general complains about Ka-50. That's why Ka-52 ordered for production but anyway there is too much common in both. And also i would like to see Ka with tandem cockpit
Kingpin
04-01-2004, 01:23 AM
There is two arcticles. One is pro-Mi ans other is pro-Ka oriented. :)
I'll scan them later.
Kingpin
04-01-2004, 02:38 AM
Here (save as, 3MB each)
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof1.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof2.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof3.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof4.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof5.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof6.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof7.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof8.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof9.jpg
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof10.jpg
Or in one piece
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof.pdf
Russia needs at least 1,000 of such choppers, though 50 is a good start :D
And what the hell do we need a 1000 of Mi-28N's for? Seriously. We need a max of 200 of them... even 100 will be enough, if coupled with rearming and upgrading Mi-24 to Mi-24PN standard. What we need is 300 Ka-60 and 1000 of new Mi-8 type helos.
Regards.
Z.S.
The bayonet is a pitot tube. I wonder if its a really good idea to have it mounted that close to the mussel.
It measures wind direction and strength at the muzzle which is entered into the balistic computer for improving the accuracy of the gun.
Its good by Russian standards, buts its night attack ability is far outdated when compared to the AH-64 or even late Model AH-1W's and Z's.
The N in Mi-28N stands for night... this is the night model. It has MMW and CMW radars and 3rd generation Swedish Thermal imaging sights. It is far better equipped than the Cobra and is really only comparable with the D model Apache.
Today was in news: we'll buy 50 such birds until 2010. Not much but at least something.
I heard the final number will be closer to 300 and they will start entering service by 2005.
safety (one of the reasons Kamov embraced traditional helo design for his Ka-60)
Not safety... top speed.
Does anyone know if Russian army uses Mi 28?
There are about a dozen or so Ka-50s in service. It won the competition in the early 90s for the new army attack helo, but the competition was rerun with greater emphasis on night and all weather capability. The Ka-50 was not suitable so the Ka-52 was created but as we have seen the Mi-28N has won that competition. There was another competition that the Ka-52 has won and it will be bought too, but not by army aviation...
And also i would like to see Ka with tandem cockpit
Search for Erdogan, or Ka-50-2. A joint Russian-Israeli design.
What we need is 300 Ka-60 and 1000 of new Mi-8 type helos.
Actually 1,000 Ka-60 and maybe 500 Mi-38 is closer to the mark. 300 Mi-28Ns would be very useful for border patrols and supporting troops in hotspots like Chechnia.
Kingpin
04-01-2004, 06:53 AM
Ka-50-2
1. It doesn't exist. Only mockup was made
2. I don't like cockpit of this mockup. I'd prefer Mi-28 cockpit style.
RuSoKaR
04-01-2004, 11:38 PM
Or in one piece
http://forum.vif2.ru:2003/nvk/forum/files/Kingpin/sof.pdf
woot Thanks, that article rocks!
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