Sturmgewehr 45 prototype [Archive]

ClydeFrog

08-04-2006, 04:51 PM

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/German-WWII_Rifles/StG45_ProtoType.jpg
Anyone seen this picture before? Is it for real or a fake? It somwehow looks like a mix between a StG45 and an MP40. Somehow I'm suspicious...

For comparison:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/German-WWII_Rifles/StG45_A.jpg

Connor Oz

08-04-2006, 06:20 PM

It somwehow looks like a mix between a StG45 and an MP40.

It says on the bit of paper underneath the rifle it is an StG45

Kocur

08-04-2006, 07:19 PM

I have no idea if the weapon in the upper picture is real or fake, but what I can tell is that its not related to StG-45 in the lower pic, as the latter seems to have recoil spring located behind bolt and its receiver stretches behind pistol grip far more rearwards. Also magazine design looks completely different to that of StG-44. OTOH I keep learning of WW2 prototypes, especially German and especially late-WW2, that I never heard of before, so who knows.

Hydro

08-04-2006, 08:19 PM

The one above is meant to be a fake. The lower pic is a genuine STG 45, a Mauser "Gerat 06" (System 6).

CanuckZ

08-04-2006, 08:29 PM

I have seen photos of the top one. Experimental. Maybe gas delayed blowback.

Hydro

08-04-2006, 08:32 PM

I've heard nothing but calls of fake regarding the above picture - like how the hell do you unfold the MP40 style stock with the 7.92mm magazine?

ZaakM433

08-04-2006, 08:37 PM

Hydro

08-04-2006, 08:40 PM

You dont do it while the magazine is attached for one.

Then that's terrible weapon design.

ZaakM433

08-04-2006, 09:05 PM

Then that's terrible weapon design.

As are all horizontally or vertically folding stocks.

akd

08-04-2006, 11:27 PM

Fake or not, that rifle was up for auction for many thousands of dollars not too long ago. On gunbroker.com, I believe.

Jippo

08-05-2006, 02:45 AM

As are all horizontally or vertically folding stocks.

Why?

-jippo

thatguy96

08-05-2006, 08:36 AM

Then that's terrible weapon design.
Its exactly the same way with an AK type weapon with an underfolding stock. Don't see why the stock makes it a fake.

The whole point is you're not supposed to be shooting with the stock folded and quickly transitioning between it unfolded and folded. Its supposed to be stowed for when you're inside a vehicle or jumping out a plane and then unfolded when you get out rather immediately.

Hydro

08-05-2006, 09:07 AM

Its exactly the same way with an AK type weapon with an underfolding stock. Don't see why the stock makes it a fake.

The whole point is you're not supposed to be shooting with the stock folded and quickly transitioning between it unfolded and folded. Its supposed to be stowed for when you're inside a vehicle or jumping out a plane and then unfolded when you get out rather immediately.

Nope, the AK underfolder has the top of the "buttplate" cut away so you can fold it with the magazine fitted. Example - if you're riding in the back of a BMP, you fold it. When you debus, you unfold it - with the magazine fitted, so you're ready for action. You don't always "stow" weapons away just because you're in a vehicle.

The stock reasoning for it being a fake is spurious I agree, I was drunk and that was a reason that immediately came to mind from a discussion of this weapon I was reading, I think it was on the Axis History Forum.

maple.leaf

08-05-2006, 10:47 AM

Every reference I've ever seen (and I've looked at loads), called this the Stg45:
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/Gewehre/Volksgewehr.jpg

That one at the top looks like somebody's imagination got the better of them. Everything about it just screams FAKE - even the magazine doesn't look right. The other very odd thing about it is the build quality - it looks far to "finished" to have been a prototype made in the last year of the war. Just compare it to this very real example above....

Garron

08-05-2006, 11:14 AM

That last one posted is Volksgewher 1-5(sp), one of hitlers last ditch volksturm weapons, to save the reich

here the specs

Cal: 7.92x33mm
Operating System: Gas operating, open bolt, Selective Fire
Weigth (Empty): 4.27Kg
Lenght: 960mm
Barrel: 380mm
Capacity: 30 Rounds (StG44 Magazines)
Description: One of the last Nazi weapons. Fast and crude rifle. Called "Gustloff" too.
Other Names: Volkssturm-Gewehr 1-5 or Versuchs-Gerat 1-5

maple.leaf

08-06-2006, 09:28 AM

Oh yes, you're right. Doh! The Stg 45 is the bottom rifle in that photo in the second post.

Vandervahn

08-06-2006, 11:36 AM

I've heard nothing but calls of fake regarding the above picture - like how the hell do you unfold the MP40 style stock with the 7.92mm magazine?

You dont do it while the magazine is attached for one.

Then that's terrible weapon design.

I cant believe that the various discussions about this rifle have always ended up in a way like this... not because I know it better, but because people kept argueing about the stock and noone really checked.

Enter: my Photoshop skillz... (actually I use Paint.net...)

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/6176/stg45mar4.jpg

So, the whole discussion whether that folding stock is flawed or not are kind of pointless, since it obviously DOES swing over and around the mag once the buttplate is snapped into position ... quite funny how you can get tricked by the eyes´ measure!

maple.leaf

08-06-2006, 12:29 PM

You're right - the stock clearance is the least of its problems....

Swedish Chef

08-07-2006, 04:08 PM

This prototype was supposedly brought from Germany by a G.I. who found it, and a few others in the Mauser factory during the war, and like akd already mentioned, and was up for sale a while ago for no less than $100,000.

cliffg

08-08-2006, 01:00 PM

Holy Sh**!

I saw this weapon (or one exacctly like it) for sale at the Houston Gun Show in 1979. It was on a table with a lot of other German WWII weapons and equipment. Story told to me was that it was a Mauser prototype brought back by a GI. I can not remember the price, but it was MUCH more than my college student budget at the time. I had never seen anything like it, and nothing since, have always remembered it becauise of that. I did get to play with it a bit. (The magazine was not in the weapon, so I can not confirm the stock length issue) I can not vouch for the authenticity of the piece, just wanted to add some more info to the mix.

ClydeFrog

08-08-2006, 01:39 PM

Kocur

08-08-2006, 01:55 PM

And I wonder about internals. Receiver is rather short rearwards, so I dont think that operating spring is located behind recoiling group, like in StG-44 and obviously StG-45. If not there, than where? I would guess that either above barrel, i.e. generally speaking like in AK or within stock, like in M1 Carbine. And the more I look at the pic, especially at what is visible in ejection port and generous distance from barrel to lower line of stock, the more I think of M1 Carbine. I understand there is no info on operating principle etc.?

maple.leaf

08-08-2006, 02:44 PM

What makes me curious is the surprisingly good finish for a late war German prototype. And the magazine is different from all other 7.92x33mm weapons which have the same magazine style as the StG44. The very crude rear sight is also strange (esp. in contrast too the otherwise "polished" appearance).

EXACTLY! Very, very suspicious.....

And of course, the story is that it was found by a lone G.I. in a warehouse untouched by bombs, surrounded by other mysterious and advanced small arms prototypes, radio guided tanks bombs and missiles and a genuine flying saucer!

CieńPolski

08-17-2006, 05:08 PM

:) Beautiful!!

Amethystfretchen

08-18-2006, 11:20 AM

EXACTLY! Very, very suspicious.....

And of course, the story is ... a genuine flying saucer!

This one?

http://www.jonastal-online.de/images/52_05_01.jpg
http://www.jonastal-online.de/52_05_punkt1.html

Jabroni

04-06-2007, 08:53 AM

Would have been nice to see the STG 45 in production a lot longer.

muede

04-15-2007, 06:46 PM

Would have been nice to see the STG 45 in production a lot longer.
Well you know, there is the CETME rifle and the G3, which really are little more than raped StG45 (regards to the calibre of 7.62x51 NATO which pretty much ruins the whole idea of "assault rifle").

Cheers.

Roy Batty

04-15-2007, 06:53 PM

Would have been nice to see the STG 45 in production a lot longer.

You could convince these guys;

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3181/bdsplashlms5.jpg

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-SSD/index.shtm

Yarrick2

04-15-2007, 06:58 PM

You could convince these guys;

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3181/bdsplashlms5.jpg

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-SSD/index.shtmholy crap can we get those down here?

Roy Batty

04-15-2007, 07:21 PM

No idea. You should ask Hollis or Zeke or one of the other yanks in the "Let's see the firearms collection" thread. We just got them up here a few weeks back.

Jabroni

04-15-2007, 09:17 PM

Well you know, there is the CETME rifle and the G3, which really are little more than raped StG45 (regards to the calibre of 7.62x51 NATO which pretty much ruins the whole idea of "assault rifle").

Cheers.

I know that

But i like the look of the STG45, The plain simple design and layout, Being Blowback operated and using 7.92 Kurz Rounds. Would be nice if there was a bullpup version.

I heard it was well cheaper to produce than the STG44