Turkey in quiet diplomacy on French military talks with Greek Cyprus

[Clearday-TRForce]

The agreement, whose terms are still being discussed between Paris and Nicosia, is meant to ‘formalize’ an existing military cooperation between France and Greek Cyprus and not to introduce new elements, say diplomatic sources

FATMA DEMİRELLİ

ANKARA - Turkish Daily News


Turkey has told France that Greek Cyprus is not authorized under international agreements to make treaty commitments on behalf of the entire island, in a quiet diplomacy aimed at warding off possible tension with Paris on yet another Cyprus-related rift.

Diplomatic sources said Turkey has expressed its position to France, cautioning Paris that security issues are regulated by international agreements and that these agreements do not allow the Greek Cypriot administration to sign agreements of any sort with another country on behalf of the entire island.

But the same sources also warned against talk of a crisis between Ankara and Paris at this stage since French-Greek Cypriot talks are still continuing and that terms of the military cooperation agreement are yet to be defined.

For France, the agreement is meant to “formalize” an existing military cooperation with Greek Cyprus, not to introduce new elements of cooperation.

“There is no clear consensus yet. We don't know what the agreement will look like in the end,” said one source, adding that the recent reports in the Greek Cypriot press suggesting that the agreement would involve cooperation in a number of areas, including use by the French of the Andreas Papandreou air base in Paphos, are “exaggerated.”

The Greek Cypriot reports have said the proposed military cooperation agreement is set to include use of military facilities, technical support and education and training of Cypriot national guardsmen in France, as well as joint military exercises.

Reacting to the reports, Foreign Ministry spokesman Namık Tan said last week that the security issues involving military matters are regulated by international agreements. He also said that the Greek Cypriot administration is not allowed to make commitments on any issue on behalf of the entire island.

“We hope the parties concerned will act in a manner heeding the sensitivity of the matter,” Tan then said.

Turkey has guarantorship rights under the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee. It does not recognize the Greek Cypriot administration and recognizes the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC), which lacks international recognition, in the north of the island.

Greek Cypriot newspapers commented that the agreement was motivated by a French desire to play greater role in the Middle East by acquiring a base near the region and to deepen its military ties with the island as part of its strategy to develop a strong European military network.

According to the reports, details of the proposed agreement were discussed during a visit to Greek Cyprus last month by French Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie, who observed the evacuation of French nationals from Lebanon by warships of the French navy.

French military helicopters have used the Paphos base for Lebanon evacuation flights, in addition to the facilities of the nearby British Akrotiri base. France is already cooperating with the British bases on the island and works with their naval and special task forces


New tension?

But the agreement, independent of its specific terms, may still stir tension between Ankara and Paris. If signed, the agreement will be the first such deal the Greek Cypriots sign with a country other than Greece.

Relations between Turkey and France were strained last year when Paris made recognition of the Greek Cypriot administration a condition for opening accession negotiations with European Union candidate Turkey.

Any tension in ties over the proposed military deal with Greek Cyprus may further complicate relations in autumn, when both the agreement is expected to be finalized and Turkey is set to come under EU pressure to open its ports and airports to traffic from member Greek Cyprus.


p-) ohh...does french guys want to play a game? sure?



regards,
CDTRF

[Greek soldier]

My sources say that the French want to have a permanent presence in Cyprus. p-)

[Atlantic Friend]

p-) ohh...does french guys want to play a game? sure?

regards,
CDTRF

Who's to prevent us ?p-)

More seriously, what exactly is the problem here ? French helicopters already take off from the Cypriot airbases to assist in the evacuation of civilians from Lebanon today, maybe to ferry a stabilizing force to Lebanon tomorrow.

Does that threaten Turkey's national security ? How ?

BTW, have you looked at this proposed map of a reshaped NE/ME aera, US columnist and writer Ralph Peters has thought about :

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10657&d=1154763308

[Atlantic Friend]

My sources say that the French want to have a permanent presence in Cyprus. p-)

We and the British used Cyprus as a jumping point in 1956 operations against Gamal Abdel Nasser's Egypt.

[Greek soldier]

Baghdad as a city-state??? WHat??

We and the British used Cyprus as a jumping point in 1956 operations against Gamal Abdel Nasser's Egypt.

Now seems the French want sthm more in Cyprus.

BTW, the "Andreas papandreou" military airport in Paphos was constructed with Greece's funds.

And i also hear that German forces are also in Cyprus.

[Atlantic Friend]

Baghdad as a city-state??? WHat??

Notice the good Mr Peters is cautious enough not to say what is to be done with the territories currently under Israeli control... Audacity has its limits ! ;)

[Atlantic Friend]

Baghdad as a city-state??? WHat??



Now seems the French want sthm more in Cyprus.

BTW, the "Andreas papandreou" military airport in Paphos was constructed with Greece's funds.

And i also hear that German forces are also in Cyprus.

A semi-permanent base, probably. Well, Cyprus is a EU member - at least for the Greek CYpriot part of the island, so what's the big deal here ? It's not as if we'll see French Mirages supporting an offensive against the Turkish-controlled part of the island or anything.

[tsuri]

The problem here is not the french military.

The Greece Part of the Island is acting as the sovereign government of Cyprus. The turks, who occupy part of the island, claim that they do not have the rights to do so and want a word in the decision.

They are naturally angry because every agreement signed by the cypriot government weakens their position on the island.

After the greeks showed the turks the finger by not voting for the Annan plan, this gains additional importance.

IMHO this is only a distraction from the more serious issues that Turkey has with cyprus. They cannot become europeans without recognizing every member state and they are unable to do anything against the cypriots without losing their foot in the door.
In short: Turkey cannot do anything about it if they ever want to join the Union.

[tooms]

p-) ohh...does french guys want to play a game? sure?


regards,
CDTRF

Which game? The one that started when we recognized the Armenian GENOCIDE ? :)

[Clearday-TRForce]

The problem here is not the french military.

The Greece Part of the Island is acting as the sovereign government of Cyprus. The turks, who occupy part of the island, claim that they do not have the rights to do so and want a word in the decision.

They are naturally angry because every agreement signed by the cypriot government weakens their position on the island.

After the greeks showed the turks the finger by not voting for the Annan plan, this gains additional importance.

IMHO this is only a distraction from the more serious issues that Turkey has with cyprus. They cannot become europeans without recognizing every member state and they are unable to do anything against the cypriots without losing their foot in the door.
In short: Turkey cannot do anything about it if they ever want to join the Union.


Actually, who cares EU? you? do you think Turkey desire to enter EU train. Cyprus or EU?

The answer is definetely Cyprus. No matter what our European friends think about it.



who prevent us?p-)

Of course we can...do you have any doubt? we dont and so comfortable (we always did it during history, and we can always do it again against any enemy at anytime.):) p-)

[tsuri]

Actually, who cares EU? you? do you think Turkey desire to enter EU train. Cyprus or EU?

The answer is definetely Cyprus. No matter what our European friends think about it.

Care to repeat that in english?

I understand that you say that cyprus (which is already a member of the European Union) wants to join and turkey(which has been applying for membership for quite some time) does not?

Pretty confusing..

[saladin]

Care to repeat that in english?

I understand that you say that cyprus (which is already a member of the European Union) wants to join and turkey(which has been applying for membership for quite some time) does not?

Pretty confusing..

He meant that if some forward thinkers(!) in EU force us to choose between joining EU or protecting the rights of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, it is more than likely that we will say, "Thanks but no thanks, you can keep the union". And believe me, a large portion of the Turks, wouldn't think twice about this.

[C.MAXIMUS]

I have good Turkish friends ... for them I would like Turkey to join the EU ... But in the other hand one of the major things the EU has done to Turkey was to reign in its military, the keeper of Ataturk secular Turkey... now they have an Islamism in power and his veiled wife.

My friends are horrified by these and think that the more Turkey turns towards EU, it shapes itself as Saudi Arabia and away from EU ... confused??? I am as well.

My humble suggestion for what could be adopted in Cyprus would be to either adopt the frame of the Lebanese government, with permanent representation of both sides or work towards two separate governments accommodating both Turkish and Greeks, like Belgium ... not forgetting the simpler allowing the existence of both Turkish and Greek Cyprus.

[Clearday-TRForce]

My humble suggestion for what could be adopted in Cyprus would be to either adopt the frame of the Lebanese government, with permanent representation of both sides or work towards two separate governments accommodating both Turkish and Greeks, like Belgium ... not forgetting the simpler allowing the existence of both Turkish and Greek Cyprus.


Of course, it is totally wrong. And I hope this EU road will have been repaired by the time we came back next season. If it is not, we can easily glad to say "bye bye"...


My friends are horrified by these and think that the more Turkey turns towards EU, it shapes itself as Saudi Arabia and away from EU ... confused??? I am as well.

Your guys definetely exaggerate...What Saudi Arabia? is it a joke?


Care to repeat that in english?

Ahhh I bet you fully understood what I said. It is very clear, if the weather is good, we will go on a picnic, if not get back your home, and forget the huge market, armed forces, economy and stable country and huge educated young,active potential population. So put your S.Cyprus poker card aside...Who cares? N.Cyprus is a Turkish soil for our people's lives and peace, if you suppose you can take it with table-games, then you will dream until the end of world, not the end of EU only.

The purpose of imposing speed limits is to reduce the number of fatal road accidents and it is important to know the cause of the confusion. Is it english? nope...ahh forget man...


best wishes,
CDTRF

[Atlantic Friend]

N.Cyprus is a Turkish soil for our people's lives and peace, if you suppose you can take it with table-games, then you will dream until the end of world, not the end of EU only.

Fine. But the said semi-permanent base won't be in Northen Cyprus. So, one more time : what kind of threat a French airbase in Southern Cyprus (the one that is ALREADY part of the EU) pose to Turkish national security ?

[Clearday-TRForce]

Fine. But the said semi-permanent base won't be in Northen Cyprus. So, one more time : what kind of threat a French airbase in Southern Cyprus (the one that is ALREADY part of the EU) pose to Turkish national security ?


I havent said French is a threat for us, have I? I said, French guys join this game in the island, maybe more actively. That is it. I dont find you a threat but a player. On the other it is more complicated issue in international area while many French companies work in Turkey with Carrefour (Turkey Carrefour reviews in top 3 in the world), Peugeot, Lafarge, Sodexo, Danone, Alcatel...

The Turkish-French Trade Association, which was established in 1885 in Istanbul, brings together prominent Turkish and French industrialists and businessmen under its auspices. It is a distinguished representative of the Union of French Chambers of Commerce and Industry and is a branch of the Assembly of French Chambers of Commerce and Industry. It is also a part of the communication network of French Chambers of Commerce and Industry, 182 of which operate in France and 82 of which operate outside France. Currently, the Association has more than 400 members: 150 French and 250 Turkish. The Executive Board consists of 10 Turkish and 10 French members.

So there are many thin relations on politics (French parlimento's last so-called Armenian genocide claims due to big Armenian population in France), economics (France can not be truly against Turkey due to firms and trade volume), military (no close ties with France)...

Now, I say there will be an other poker card, called Cyprus near Turkish soil.



regards,
CDTRF

[Clearday-TRForce]

Which game? The one that started when we recognized the Armenian GENOCIDE ? :)


ohh you tricky boy...We have started with Algeria Genocide too...Lets wait for genocide race results...

[Atlantic Friend]

So there are many thin relations on politics (French parlimento's last so-called Armenian genocide claims due to big Armenian population in France), economics (France can not be truly against Turkey due to firms and trade volume), military (no close ties with France)...

Now, I say there will be an other poker card, called Cyprus near Turkish soil.



BTW, do you know why Turkey never passed a law saying that Northen Cyprus was an overseas province of the Turkish Republic ?

The way I see it, Cyprus will now stay divided for decades to come at least, like Ireland. The Southern part is recognized as a EU member and will stay independent, and the Northern part will stay under Turkish control. Realpolitik would suggest we trade a recognition of Northern Cyprus by the EU against a recognition of Southern Cyprus by Turkey, as the present-day status quo settles nothing.

[Clearday-TRForce]

Fine. But the said semi-permanent base won't be in Northen Cyprus. So, one more time : what kind of threat a French airbase in Southern Cyprus (the one that is ALREADY part of the EU) pose to Turkish national security ?


On the other hand, EU friends have taken S.Cyprus part into EU due to taking another part a fews later. But now, they face to face with hardline results, coz Turkey doesnt fell any desire to give a dominant controlled advantage to EU. The negotiations will continue until EU understand they cant do everything about it. If they, now give up all EU stuff. But you know it is not the best bet for EU.

[Clearday-TRForce]

BTW, do you know why Turkey never passed a law saying that Northen Cyprus was an overseas province of the Turkish Republic ?

The way I see it, Cyprus will now stay divided for decades to come at least, like Ireland. The Southern part is recognized as a EU member and will stay independent, and the Northern part will stay under Turkish control. Realpolitik would suggest we trade a recognition of Northern Cyprus by the EU against a recognition of Southern Cyprus by Turkey, as the present-day status quo settles nothing.


We will not recognize S.Cyprus until N.Cyprus status normalize like other part of island infront of EU. If not, it will be controlled by Turkey and it will be recognized by other Turkish states (now,some Turkish states began to trade and full negotiations with N.Cyprus) and Islamic countries. p-) Anyway realpolitik is on the right way...

[Atlantic Friend]

We will not recognize S.Cyprus until N.Cyprus status normalize like other part of island infront of EU.

Well, I suppose the EU will say that it will not grant recognition to Northern Cyprus until Southern Cyprus is recognized by Turkey, and so we can meet again in 50 years or so and talk about Cyprus' future...

If not, it will be controlled by Turkey and it will be recognized by other Turkish states (now,some Turkish states began to trade and full negotiations with N.Cyprus) and Islamic countries. p-) Anyway realpolitik is on the right way...

What do you call Turkish states ? Regions of Turkey ? Are they semi-autonomous ?

[Clearday-TRForce]

dp...dlt pls.

[Clearday-TRForce]

Well, I suppose the EU will say that it will not grant recognition to Northern Cyprus until Southern Cyprus is recognized by Turkey, and so we can meet again in 50 years or so and talk about Cyprus' future...

Same. We will not recognize S.Cyprus until EU recognize N.Cyprus. So we can meet again in 100 years or so and talk about Cyprus future too...



What do you call Turkish states ? Regions of Turkey ? Are they semi-autonomous ?

Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Some part of Georgia(Abkhaz), Turkmen part of Iraq, Azeri Turks of Iran, Turkish part of China...etc

[Atlantic Friend]

Same. We will not recognize S.Cyprus until EU recognize N.Cyprus. So we can meet again in 100 years or so and talk about Cyprus future too...

Well, then I suppose at some point there'll be the nations who recognize and do business with S. CYprus, and those who recognize and do business with N. Cyprus. Mutual recognition will then be a question of years, as nations from the two "blocs" will also do trade with each other.

Why hasn't Turkey passed a law saying N. CYprus is a Turkish overseas province, BTW ? I gather it is mostly populated by Turks, with strong ties to Turkey ?

[Clearday-TRForce]

Well, then I suppose at some point there'll be the nations who recognize and do business with S. CYprus, and those who recognize and do business with N. Cyprus. Mutual recognition will then be a question of years, as nations from the two "blocs" will also do trade with each other.

Why hasn't Turkey passed a law saying N. CYprus is a Turkish overseas province, BTW ? I gather it is mostly populated by Turks, with strong ties to Turkey ?


what is the meaning of strong ties? They are also Turks...so what is strong when all of us same. Is a law important at this point why we fully control the province by economically,politically and militaryly?

and why hasn't EU obeyed his promise to Turkey while N.Cyprus Turks accept the UN Annan plan?

or

why any EU or UN element cant do something, punish, if everything is wrong for us in the meaning of laws? it seems that somethings are wrong for EU side?

[Atlantic Friend]

what is the meaning of strong ties? They are also Turks...so what is strong when all of us same. Is a law important at this point why we fully control the province by economically,politically and militaryly?

Well, it would help. It'll grant N. Cyprus official status as a Turkish region, grant immediate Turskish citizenship to N. Cypriots. So I'm a bit puzzled. Why haven't N. Cyprus organized a referendum demanding to be part of the Turkish nation ?

and why hasn't EU obeyed his promise to Turkey while N.Cyprus Turks accept the UN Annan plan?

Said promise being ?

why any EU or UN element cant do something, punish, if everything is wrong for us in the meaning of laws? it seems that somethings are wrong for EU side?

Not sure what you mean here. Are you asking how Turkey can be helped rest its case against the EU or S. CYprus ?

[Clearday-TRForce]

Well, it would help. It'll grant N. Cyprus official status as a Turkish region, grant immediate Turskish citizenship to N. Cypriots. So I'm a bit puzzled. Why haven't N. Cyprus organized a referendum demanding to be part of the Turkish nation ?

Said promise being ?

Not sure what you mean here. Are you asking how Turkey can be helped rest its case against the EU or S. CYprus ?


Maybe the current situation is more profitable and logical for us will be the right answer. No need to referandum, coz everybody is also our president,citizens and deputies...

No I want to ask, If it is an "invasion" by us and "unlawed", why the EU and UN hadnt punished for our action to island until today? Isn't it weird?

[AROUETLJ]

Maybe the current situation is more profitable and logical for us will be the right answer. No need to referandum, coz everybody is also our president,citizens and deputies...

No I want to ask, If it is an "invasion" by us and "unlawed", why the EU and UN hadnt punished for our action to island until today? Isn't it weird?

Au contraire, it's not weird at all. You were a US ally, and a NATO member.

[Atlantic Friend]

No I want to ask, If it is an "invasion" by us and "unlawed", why the EU and UN hadnt punished for our action to island until today? Isn't it weird?

Probably because the Cypriot situation is one big mess.

[Clearday-TRForce]

Au contraire, it's not weird at all. You were a US ally, and a NATO member.

with the same logic, is it a priority implication to invade somewhere if you were an ally of USA and a member of NATO?

I think not, because if you dont have a strong background on these issues with laws and perspective, allies can not help you until the end of story. In this story, Turkey plays well...

The French interests in the Cyprus is not Cypriots, but also mediterrean sea and middle east. On the other hand Turkey has the biggest navy and submarine forces in this area. So France will be the another player here if everything goes well for France. But I am not sure coz S.Cypriots can not sign every deal without N.Turkish Cypriots-Turkey.

And what about Britain in island? Do Brits accept French exist there? p-)

[tsuri]

Ahhh I bet you fully understood what I said. It is very clear, if the weather is good, we will go on a picnic, if not get back your home, and forget the huge market, armed forces, economy and stable country and huge educated young,active potential population. So put your S.Cyprus poker card aside...Who cares? N.Cyprus is a Turkish soil for our people's lives and peace, if you suppose you can take it with table-games, then you will dream until the end of world, not the end of EU only.

No seriously start speaking english. You are up there with Omega7.

You WANT to join. There is no negating that because you are a candidate for membership. Completely regardless If individuals in the Union want you there or not...
All I say is that you CANNOT join if you continue to ignore Cyprus. It is absolutely impossible. So you need to balance your interests in the "State" on Northern Cyprus (not recognized by ANY nation on this planet except Turkey btw) and your global interests by joining the largest market on the planet.

But I am not sure coz S.Cypriots can not sign every deal without N.Turkish Cypriots-Turkey.
Point is, they absolutely can. Under International Law, they are the sole representative of the Island of Cyprus, even though they do not control the part that was occupied by the turkish military.

No I want to ask, If it is an "invasion" by us and "unlawed", why the EU and UN hadnt punished for our action to island until today? Isn't it weird?


You mean like stationing peacekeepers on the Island? Oh wait they did that!
Or by passing a resolution that speaks against the creation of a turkish state on the island? Oh wait! They also did that...


Said promise being ?


The promise was: Cyprus reunites and joins the EU as one. The poor turkish cypriots voted "yes", the south voted "no" and joined the EU alone.
They did not like the presence of turkish military units on the Island that was allowed in the plan.

[Clearday-TRForce]

dpost...dlt pls.

[Clearday-TRForce]

No seriously start speaking english. You are up there with Omega7.

You WANT to join. There is no negating that because you are a candidate for membership. Completely regardless If individuals in the Union want you there or not...
All I say is that you CANNOT join if you continue to ignore Cyprus. It is absolutely impossible. So you need to balance your interests in the "State" on Northern Cyprus (not recognized by ANY nation on this planet except Turkey btw) and your global interests by joining the largest market on the planet.


Point is, they absolutely can. Under International Law, they are the sole representative of the Island of Cyprus, even though they do not control the part that was occupied by the turkish military.


You mean like stationing peacekeepers on the Island? Oh wait they did that!
Or by passing a resolution that speaks against the creation of a turkish state on the island? Oh wait! They also did that...




The promise was: Cyprus reunites and joins the EU as one. The poor turkish cypriots voted "yes", the south voted "no" and joined the EU alone.
They did not like the presence of turkish military units on the Island that was allowed in the plan.



is spite of mentioning a people poor,indeed, the poor your view is nonsense here. this is your self opinion and noone takes care of you. EU or not, Turkey will continue its way "increasingly". It has full potential in every aspect.

[C.MAXIMUS]

Of course, it is totally wrong. And I hope this EU road will have been repaired by the time we came back next season. If it is not, we can easily glad to say "bye bye"...




Your guys definetely exaggerate...What Saudi Arabia? is it a joke?




Ahhh I bet you fully understood what I said. It is very clear, if the weather is good, we will go on a picnic, if not get back your home, and forget the huge market, armed forces, economy and stable country and huge educated young,active potential population. So put your S.Cyprus poker card aside...Who cares? N.Cyprus is a Turkish soil for our people's lives and peace, if you suppose you can take it with table-games, then you will dream until the end of world, not the end of EU only.

The purpose of imposing speed limits is to reduce the number of fatal road accidents and it is important to know the cause of the confusion. Is it english? nope...ahh forget man...


best wishes,
CDTRF

I think it is very selfish for you to say bye bye to the EU... just think of everyone that is benefiting from the entry efforts ... I think a liberal Turkey is a great partner as long as we keep the Mullahs under control.

Not a joke, maybe exaggerating ... They mentioned Saudi Arabia because they see Turkey becoming more of an Islamic state as it is liberalized...

As for Cyprus, I agree it is really realpolitiks... status quo for some time like with Turkey ... work in progress towards a resolution.

[Clearday-TRForce]

I think it is very selfish for you to say bye bye to the EU... just think of everyone that is benefiting from the entry efforts ... I think a liberal Turkey is a great partner as long as we keep the Mullahs under control.

Not a joke, maybe exaggerating ... They mentioned Saudi Arabia because they see Turkey becoming more of an Islamic state as it is liberalized...

As for Cyprus, I agree it is really realpolitiks... status quo for some time like with Turkey ... work in progress towards a resolution.


You welcome. And thanks, but I do not support you about mullahs issue. There arent mullahs here, at least by the meaning of you. You should be said these for arab countries. I am really upset you have minimal reviews and infos about us. How strange...

On the other hand, it is not very selfish if EU tries to play a S.Cyprus poker card while taking a huge country into EU system. Yes it is beneficial for both side. But trying to take a soil from us is not a balanced and mutual movement. Also it is realpolitik. And if we have to choose oen of them, you can be sure, we will choose "Cyprus". Coz it is deadly important for our Mediterrean policy, overseas province, controlling Suveys cannal, and defending Anatolian lands from the seas...It is also the biggest warship of Turkey as a island. There are over 50 thousands well-equipped soldiers in the island.


regards,
CDTRF

[tsuri]

is spite of mentioning a people poor,indeed, the poor your view is nonsense here. this is your self opinion and noone takes care of you. EU or not, Turkey will continue its way "increasingly". It has full potential in every aspect.

I was not talking about Turkey but about the poor turkish cypriots. While "poor" referred to them as being the losers of the 2004 referendum and not neccesarily to their economic situation that can be classified as underdeveloped and problematic due to their nonexistance as a state on the international stage but not neccesarily as poor.

I think it is very selfish for you to say bye bye to the EU... just think of everyone that is benefiting from the entry efforts ... I think a liberal Turkey is a great partner as long as we keep the Mullahs under control.
There may be economic benefits but these can just as well be reached with an association treaty. There is no need to import the political TNT that this represents.
It will additionally not stabilize the region but isolate Turkey from it. They will be better fill their role as a bridge of Orient and Occident by being closly associated to the EU and the Near Eastern States.