Body Armour for the Troops

[MEGR]

One of our conservative radio personalities, Andrew Wilkow, is trying to start up a drive to purchase the Interceptor vests for our boys and girls in Iraq and such. Anyone have any interest? This is kind of new, and I hope to dish out some cash to this. I'm emailing the host and trying to get more info... Just wondering if anyone is interested though.. Nothing set in stone yet...

[Marsuitor]

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the Interceptor standard issue in the US forces?

[George W. Bush]

Funny how liberals never consider doing the same thing.

[vitiaz]

"start up a drive to purchase the Interceptor vests for our boys and girls in Iraq"

Its not the vests they need, its the SAPI (Level IV) inserts that go in them...and its the support/rear echelon folks that really need them.(IMHO)

Keep us posted...I'd chip in.

I wonder if we could get these folks to help,
http://www.treatsfortroops.com/

[Tane Angle]

Funny how I had lunch the other day with a professor at Columbia who not only is a fiery liberal, but also a staunch supporter of the troops and running a donation drive at that university to purchase both more plates and more vests. I was in a HS last week that's doing the same thing; the teacher running that drive is also pretty dang liberal. My thanks to them all, conservative or liberal. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[ibstolidude]

More amusing to me is the manner that people always turn this things into political agendas.

My unit had a beef that got passed way way way way way up the command. A particular senator contacted us an was all interested until he discovered we wanted to go, we just needed some answers on an issue. (He tought we were trying to not go to the ME) once he discovered his mistake and realized it would not help his agenda - out went his help, the dude was fishing and fishing hard.


Just give the **** to the soldiers - these are the issues that should draw all political sides/parties etc together.... these should be the ideals ALL in service should value.

[MEGR]

Well whatever they needed... I was wrong in that detail of the plate and vest or whatever.. This is not political at all, I'm just spreading the word on a local thing here that is gaining some steam.

[Dennis G]

Well Tane that professor is the exception not the rule most. When the U.S. first started the military build up outside of Iraq a local liberal Gina Lieb encouraged young students in our town to write the troops and tell them that they supported them when they shoot their officers!

[usa320]

Just to clarify- my undestanding is that front line troops are issued the vests with the plates. These fund raising campaigns are to purchase the armor for rear-line and supporting elements who are still using traditional flak vests.

[Dennis G]

The HS my kids attend the conservative teachers are told to keep their support for the troops home while the liberals hang posters push far left reading on the kids and so on.

[usa320]

back when i was in high school i had a Global Studies teacher that was with an air assault unit in the reserves... obviously conservative guy...and obviously didnt get along with the rest of the rather liberal teachers... education has always been the one industry that seems staunchly liberal...particularly those that study the arts, english and culture...i tend to find that those that study and teach science and history are usually more conservative, perhaps because they have a better idea of the big picture.

Anyway, the one history teacher that was in the reserves, he only taught our class for a few months and then he got shipped out to the Balkans...i believe he is teaching still.

[Dennis G]

back when i was in high school i had a Global Studies teacher that was with an air assault unit in the reserves... obviously conservative guy...and obviously didnt get along with the rest of the rather liberal teachers... education has always been the one industry that seems staunchly liberal...particularly those that study the arts, english and culture...i tend to find that those that study and teach science and history are usually more conservative, perhaps because they have a better idea of the big picture.

Anyway, the one history teacher that was in the reserves, he only taught our class for a few months and then he got shipped out to the Balkans...i believe he is teaching still.

Yeah that’s what I'm thinking. I'm a good friends with a conservative teacher he is in the science very good guy a marine scout/sniper in the late 80's he was told after the war broke out to take his MARINES The Few The Proud poster down when just down the hall you will see a poster of an statue of Bush being pulled down like saddams :fork:



Just thought I would post this about the .17HMR--not able to find much more info on it sorry

http://a1.cpimg.com/image/3F/44/31190591-b1b3-019B0200-.jpg

[mustamato]

A Interceptor with two plates, add some magazine pouches, a Camelbak and
so forth, and only the vest, weight of 15+ kg. Add the heat in a country like
Iraq, and well, I don´t envy the American soldiers.

I have carried around a 12 kg vest with two plates a lot and it´s a bitch, but
in a enviroment as Iraq with a lot of Kalasnikovs I wouldn´t feel so comfortable
without the plates. But two plates can be a little too much with the intense heat
and all, especially considering that in example supply soldiers actyally have to do
some physically exhausting stuff once in a while. Swedish soldiers in Liberia
doesn´t even seem to be carrying the flak jackets, but then again no one is out
to kill them (yet).

http://www.mil.se/int/images/local/la01-v413-3-post.jpg

What does the American soldiers themself think?

[MEGR]

Look, I don't want this to get off topic like most threads.. I'm trying to do something that can help save lives of our troops.. I don't care about politics.. This is about saving someone's life.

[Merik]

Im not trying to say that I am already a BTDT guy but since Im getting deployed over there Im going to say Ill wear whatever the hell is going to save my life. On a side note however, it is not I and say not, so much enemy rifle fire that is the reason why they are wanting better plates, vests, etc. Its the IED's and mines that are the main reason why better protection is wanted.

[mustamato]

Im not trying to say that I am already a BTDT guy but since Im getting deployed over there Im going to say Ill wear whatever the hell is going to save my life. On a side note however, it is not I and say not, so much enemy rifle fire that is the reason why they are wanting better plates, vests, etc. Its the IED's and mines that are the main reason why better protection is wanted.

And why would plates help you in case a 20 kg artilley shell used as a IED
explodes under the Humvee you´r driving? I don´t know, maybe you are a
top athlete, but most people can get fatigued quite easily, and it´s also hot as
hell in Iraq I can imagine. Having two plates on a 15 kg vest is probably not a problem
when patrolling and sitting in a vehicle. But being a grunt in the logistics that most
carry heavy stuff around in a hurry, then a 15 kg vest could be a problem.
An alternative could of course be to carry just one plate, in front, and having
a Camelbak on the back would balance the weight quite good I guess.

[Merik]

Im not trying to say that I am already a BTDT guy but since Im getting deployed over there Im going to say Ill wear whatever the hell is going to save my life. On a side note however, it is not I and say not, so much enemy rifle fire that is the reason why they are wanting better plates, vests, etc. Its the IED's and mines that are the main reason why better protection is wanted.

And why would plates help you in case a 20 kg artilley shell used as a IED
explodes under the Humvee you´r driving? I don´t know, maybe you are a
top athlete, but most people can get fatigued quite easily, and it´s also hot as
hell in Iraq I can imagine. Having two plates on a 15 kg vest is probably not a problem
when patrolling and sitting in a vehicle. But being a grunt in the logistics that most
carry heavy stuff around in a hurry, then a 15 kg vest could be a problem.
An alternative could of course be to carry just one plate, in front, and having
a Camelbak on the back would balance the weight quite good I guess.

And thats the problem and always has been. How can you keep a balance between extra weight, trying to stay moderatly mobile, and adding more protection to stay alive.

[ibstolidude]

carry heavy stuff around in a hurry, then a 15 kg vest could be a problem.
from did the 15kg number come?
15kg = 33lbs and that is not the correct weight for the interceptor.

[mustamato]

carry heavy stuff around in a hurry, then a 15 kg vest could be a problem.
from did the 15kg number come?
15kg = 33lbs and that is not the correct weight for the interceptor.

Maybe you should read what I wrote earlier?

[ibstolidude]

carry heavy stuff around in a hurry, then a 15 kg vest could be a problem.
from did the 15kg number come?
15kg = 33lbs and that is not the correct weight for the interceptor.

Maybe you should read what I wrote earlier?
Ahh, my bad. I only read

Having two plates on a 15 kg vest

[Nawlins]

Just to clarify- my undestanding is that front line troops are issued the vests with the plates. These fund raising campaigns are to purchase the armor for rear-line and supporting elements who are still using traditional flak vests.

Problem is that alot of these "supporting elements" need the better vest just as much as the "front line troops"...

[WARPIG]

Just a thought..
Many units inbound to Iraq are getting the goods. Active duty units for sure. Some of the ARNG units have to be funded by their state. Heck, I know some of the units in my state were still using M16A1s until after 2002. If anyone is likely to not get the full benefit of the Rapid Fielding Initiative. If your putting together a gaggle of vests, you should probably have a specific unit in mind.

Also, I have some friends that may find themselves vacationing in Afghanistan or Kosovo this year. Please keep me in the loop with all of the programs that help get troops the goodies they need.

Thanks, and take that political BS somewhere else!

[fokket]

SAPIs are level III IIRC

[Tane Angle]

Sorry about that politicalization there, that was my fault. I just wanted to point out that people on both sides of the aisle can be patriotic and care about the troops. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[farmgirl]

Sorry about that politicalization there, that was my fault. I just wanted to point out that people on both sides of the aisle can be patriotic and care about the troops. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...


Personally, I don't think you need to apologize. People from all political parties can and do support our troops. In cases like these it's really irrevelant whether one is a registered Democrat or Republican, the bottom line is... we want our men and women (and those of our allies) to be safe. It irritates me when generalizations are made. I, for one, appreciated your take on the matter.

have a good one, and just some thoughts..... ;)

[WARPIG]

Funny how liberals never consider doing the same thing.

This is where the political crap started on a thread that needed none. Not your fault Tane, I also appreciated your take on the matter. I just didn't want to see a contributing and helpful thread get hi-jacked by stupidity.
No worries.

[Merik]

Just a thought..
Many units inbound to Iraq are getting the goods. Active duty units for sure. Some of the ARNG units have to be funded by their state. Heck, I know some of the units in my state were still using M16A1s until after 2002. If anyone is likely to not get the full benefit of the Rapid Fielding Initiative. If your putting together a gaggle of vests, you should probably have a specific unit in mind.

Also, I have some friends that may find themselves vacationing in Afghanistan or Kosovo this year. Please keep me in the loop with all of the programs that help get troops the goodies they need.

Thanks, and take that political BS somewhere else!

Warpig, when it comes to ARNG and them being alerted for mobilization you can bet your ass that most state senators will try and get them everything they need because they know that these fighting men and women represent their state so they have to treat them right. Peacetime though, Im not so sure about.

[WARPIG]

I won't bet my a55. Each state has different leadership with different agendas. As I said, I have buddies that never saw an M16A2 unitil deployment was being considered. What you say makes sense, but the truth is that ARNG units showed up in Iraq without ammo. Commanders were gettin OPORDs and sending forward elements while telling them the ammo will meet them there. It happens, and will continue. There have been some big steps taken to try and fix that problem though. Most of it is on the Active Duty side though. If your state has money issues, they aren't gonna be too generous so you can represent your state. Unless, your state leadership makes it happen. That is the problem, instead of being the policy, there is a choice.

Any news on what units need some help?

[Haiw]

Just to clarify- my undestanding is that front line troops are issued the vests with the plates. These fund raising campaigns are to purchase the armor for rear-line and supporting elements who are still using traditional flak vests.

Problem is that alot of these "supporting elements" need the better vest just as much as the "front line troops"...
Maybe this has been said before, but she hit the nail on the head. There's no front-line, and the front is everywhere... Thus supporting elements have pretty much as much chance at getting shot then 'front-line-elements'.

[Merik]

I won't bet my a55. Each state has different leadership with different agendas. As I said, I have buddies that never saw an M16A2 unitil deployment was being considered. What you say makes sense, but the truth is that ARNG units showed up in Iraq without ammo. Commanders were gettin OPORDs and sending forward elements while telling them the ammo will meet them there. It happens, and will continue. There have been some big steps taken to try and fix that problem though. Most of it is on the Active Duty side though. If your state has money issues, they aren't gonna be too generous so you can represent your state. Unless, your state leadership makes it happen. That is the problem, instead of being the policy, there is a choice.

Any news on what units need some help?

Yeah, mine.

[Nawlins]

Just to clarify- my undestanding is that front line troops are issued the vests with the plates. These fund raising campaigns are to purchase the armor for rear-line and supporting elements who are still using traditional flak vests.

Problem is that alot of these "supporting elements" need the better vest just as much as the "front line troops"...
Maybe this has been said before, but she hit the nail on the head. There's no front-line, and the front is everywhere... Thus supporting elements have pretty much as much chance at getting shot then 'front-line-elements'.

Seems like lately it's more likely to be a support element.