Patria AMV 8x8

[DeutschBrasilianisch]

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/patria_vehicles2/Photo-1-AMV-8x8-with-Oto-Me.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/patria_vehicles2/Photo-4-AMV-8x8-swimming.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/patria_vehicles2/Photo-2-AMV-8x8-with-Delco-.jpg

[mustamato]

http://www.defesanet.com.br/noticia/patriaamv/

I can´t read portugese so what does it say here, that Brazil is going to buy some
new armour and is interested in the Patria AMV?

[DeutschBrasilianisch]

http://www.defesanet.com.br/noticia/patriaamv/

I can´t read portugese so what does it say here, that Brazil is going to buy some
new armour and is interested in the Patria AMV?

I don't speak english...

Yes, is interested in the Patria AMV

[DeutschBrasilianisch]

Mustamato, in you avatar is Simo Häyhä???

[mustamato]

Ok thanks, I like this:

http://www.defesanet.com.br/noticia/imbelpatria/img4.gif

http://www.patria.com.pl/pic/amv_family.jpg

It´s truly a all in one.

http://members.surfeu.fi/stefan.allen/pics/xc360.jpg
IFV version tested in Finland, armed with a 30 mm Bushmaster

http://members.surfeu.fi/stefan.allen/pics/amv8x8_iso.jpg
AMOS - Advanced mortar system with two 120 mm long-range mortars,
have been ordered by Finland, and will be ordered (on CV90) by Sweden.
Vehicle on picture is a prototype, that´s why it looks different.

http://www.polska-zbrojna.pl/img/artykul/1281.jpg
AMV with OtoMelara turret, Poland has ordered 690 AMV´s
(including a variety of different versions)

http://www.patria.com.pl/pic/logo.jpg
OtoMelara turret with missile, hm TOW?

Anyway, I hope Brazil orders the AMV, would be nice.

____________________________

No it´s not Simo Häyhä on my avatar, Häyhä looked like this:

http://www.mosin-nagant.net/Meeting-Legend.html

[fdt]

Currently there is an ongoing competition for the name of Polish version of AMV. The main critrium is it has to be a name of the predatory mammal... Any suggestions from abroad? (many such names has already been taken by other vehicles).

[Kingpin]

Currently there is an ongoing competition for the name of Polish version of AMV. The main critrium is it has to be a name of the predatory mammal... Any suggestions from abroad? (many such names has already been taken by other vehicles).

Coguar :) Don't sure about spelling. Similar to Leopard but smaller. :)

[Yard Ape]

sasquatch

[fdt]

sasquatchNessie is excluded...

[fdt]

Currently there is an ongoing competition for the name of Polish version of AMV. The main critrium is it has to be a name of the predatory mammal... Any suggestions from abroad? (many such names has already been taken by other vehicles).

Coguar :) Don't sure about spelling. Similar to Leopard but smaller. :)It seems that for today the "Rosomak" (Wolverine) is leading the predatory pack... Does "Rosomak" sound serious enough for not Polish speaking folks?

[mustamato]

Currently there is an ongoing competition for the name of Polish version of AMV. The main critrium is it has to be a name of the predatory mammal... Any suggestions from abroad? (many such names has already been taken by other vehicles).

Coguar :) Don't sure about spelling. Similar to Leopard but smaller. :)It seems that for today the "Rosomak" (Wolverine) is leading the predatory pack... Does "Rosomak" sound serious enough for not Polish speaking folks?

Rosomak sounds quite ok I think. Ros in Swedish:

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-44175/mormorkarins%20rosor.jpg

[fdt]

:D Anyone interested in contest participation may send his proposal (by 30th of April 2004) to adress:

Nowa Technika Wojskowa,
ul. Grochowiecka 306/310 p.206,
03-840 Warszawa

Prize is a excursion and visit to Patria factory.

Already taken tames are:
- Rys
- Wilk,
- Zbik
- Jaguar
- Szakal
- Hiena
- Puma

Proposals already issued:

- Orka
- Borsuk
- Rosomak
- Kuna
- Lis
- Wydra
- Karakal
- Lasica
- Gronostaj
- Odyniec
- Knur
- Kojot

Names are in Polish, but I don't translate it on purpose... Which name sounds best and "macho" for the foreign ear?

[Hate mail]

F*ck foreign ear, Slavic language is king.

Wydra ili Lasica su najbolje! :)

[mustamato]

F*ck foreign ear, Slavic language is king.

Wydra ili Lasica su najbolje! :)

No, I say Kojot (coyote?).

[tony6]

My bet: rosomak :D

[Stavka]

How about Gavno/Govno? rofl rofl rofl

[Hate mail]

:bash: u're cruisin for bruisin

[lekomin]

http://www.patria.com.pl/pic/logo.jpg
OtoMelara turret with missile, hm TOW?



nope it is israeli Spike missile launcher...

Poland got a very good deal. The only thing I'd like to include are the AMOS mortar turets. Poland might get it in 3 to 5 years

Anyway medium brigade on AMV would be top notch by European standards...
take care
lekomin inc

[fdt]

How about Gavno/Govno? rofl rofl roflThat name is reserved for Swedish immigration policy... rofl rofl rofl

[REMOV]

- Odyniec
- KnurEkhm... those animals (ie Boar, Wild hog) aren't predatory mammals.

[Herrmannek]

- Odyniec
- KnurEkhm... those animals (ie Boar, Wild hog) aren't predatory mammals.
Pssst..Don't tell them that :)

[deutschersoldat]

its like this from germany and netherland

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mrav/images/mrav7.jpg

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mrav/images/mrav11.jpg



http://www.occar-ea.org/occar/PORTALOCCAR/OccarBase.nsf/a2359e1209b11a18c1256982003b7e87/aeb28d22ad6edf09c1256d3b0050dd2c/Body/2.B26?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

http://www.occar-ea.org/occar/PORTALOCCAR/OccarBase.nsf/a2359e1209b11a18c1256982003b7e87/aeb28d22ad6edf09c1256d3b0050dd2c/Body/0.7A36?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

[Lysander]

When is Poland going to get these? Also, besides Poland and Finland did anyone else order the vehicle?

As far as the names go I like the sounds of the following two:

Rosomak

Karakal


What are those animals in English?

[Herrmannek]

Rosomak( Glutton, Wolverine, Wolverene) is "older" brotther of Weasel
http://dnd.panthernet.cz/Images/postavy/rosomak3.gif

Karakal
http://www.alant.com/jagdfarm-bornholm/luchs_gr.jpg

[Resevoir Hogs]

Wow the patria looks like a really good system!!

Can anyone tell me how its armor stands up to RPG hits?

[fdt]

Wow the patria looks like a really good system!!

Can anyone tell me how its armor stands up to RPG hits?It has a double armor. Inner is about 8 mm steel. Outer can be attached according to actual needs... reactive, composite... whatever it takes. If You use it in f ex. in peacekeeping like Kosovo or Macedonia most probable sh*it can happen is the mine, so You don't need a heavy armor. In Sunni Triangle You can attach the composite or reactive armor to be prepared for the RPG attack. Real trick is You don't have a fixed protection... You decide what kind of it is actually needed. Outer armor is designed to be fully dismantled and changed by crew in the field in 1,5 hour. You may also remove the armor for transport, reducing the vehicle weight down. Latest adjustment (ordered by Poland and Finland too) are to make the AMV fully capable to be transported with C-130 (with turret on - as for the combat version, for transport and basic versions it's possible already) and the bigger planes too. It will be slightly reduced in height (hydrodynamic suspension allows to reduce it's height for transport), width and weight. The target weight is 20,5 - 21 metric tonnes. The another good feature it's the frame construction (unlike LAV, Stryker and Pandur... don't know how it looks in MRAV-Boxer and Panhard) that improves versatility and the mine protection. Older Patrias are very popular in UN missions, where they proved to be best protected against the mines (Norway bought it specially for UN missions as they don't use it in Army).

[wholagun]

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/4126/Patriaamv2.JPG


in the pic above you see some protective armour hidng the area around the tires but this is not in all the AMVs why is that? Isn't that a big ****e to RPGs.

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/3614/Partriaamos2.JPG

this is a better picture showing how vulnurable to RPGs.

also how does the AMV stand up to mines? is there any sort of mine protection? And how do you add the extra armour, will it look look any differnet?

[mustamato]

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/4126/Patriaamv2.JPG


in the pic above you see some protective armour hidng the area around the tires but this is not in all the AMVs why is that? Isn't that a big ****e to RPGs.

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/3614/Partriaamos2.JPG

this is a better picture showing how vulnurable to RPGs.

also how does the AMV stand up to mines? is there any sort of mine protection? And how do you add the extra armour, will it look look any differnet?

The picture below with AMOS is a prototype, the picture is a bunch of years
old. The picture with the IFV-turret is closer to the one that will be produced.
The beauty with a wheeled vehicle is that it doesn´t really matter if one tire
gets hit by a RPG, yeah it will blow away to hell, but while a tracked vehicle
would be stopped (not a very good thing in an ambush) a wheeled vehicle can
keep rolling and speed away from the place.

About the mine-protection it is supposedly better than on the Finnish XA-series,
it´s kind of a improvement. And it´s mine protection is good, in UN missions
they have driven over anti-tank mines several times. To my knowledge no one
has died. The "boat-shape" deflects the blast away to the sides.

http://www.marttitikka.net/images/libanon/Pasi001.jpg
Finnish "Pasi" (SISU XA-180) that has hit a anti-tank mine, the blast
was so powerfull that the mid-axle fell of...

http://www.marttitikka.net/images/libanon/Pasi003.jpg
... can be seen better here...

http://www.marttitikka.net/images/libanon/Pasi002.jpg
... and the other side

[Marmot1]

Hull looks intact...

BTW if brasill order AMV then it's better to us since some of them will be produced in poland (up to 50% parts AFAIK) and they are intended to be sold to 3rd parties

[mustamato]

Hull looks intact...

BTW if brasill order AMV then it's better to us since some of them will be produced in poland (up to 50% parts AFAIK) and they are intended to be sold to 3rd parties

Yeah, also Portugal and South Africa will buy new armour soon, and the AMV
is a contender, so who knows. Would be good for both Poland and Finland.

By the way, some "possible AMV versions in the future":

http://members.surfeu.fi/stefan.allen/pics/kvaerner-1.jpg
"Tank killer". Finnish prototype tested a couple of years ago, armed with 4 TOW´s

http://members.surfeu.fi/stefan.allen/pics/kvaerner-2.jpg

http://members.surfeu.fi/stefan.allen/pics/181-1.jpg
AA version, here XA-181 with the Crotale SAM

http://members.surfeu.fi/stefan.allen/pics/jantronic-1.jpg
Radar version, here with a Jantronic, etc etc etc

Smart to have everything on one platform, like the M113 with its versions.

[CannibalSquirel]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).

[mustamato]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).

Piranha and Pandur eh? Looks promising for the Patria AMV then, but as
usual it will probably come down to politics and other trade rather than the vehicle.

[FinnishMF]

Finland bought only few AMV:s. How many ?
And to which troops ?

[mustamato]

Finland bought only few AMV:s. How many ?
And to which troops ?

Finland has ordered 124 AMV´s, 24 with the AMOS that will be used in the
southern readiness brigades. The other 100 will replace older XA-series that
will be retired. I don´t know which units but those in the south somewhere.

[wholagun]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).

jebus.. Portugal is like 4 times smaller then Poland yet they order 1/2 the number of APC's thats crazy... How big is the Protugese army?


So if the AMV better then the Stryker?
Also Marmot... will we produce the AMV parts? Which ones will Polish workers make?

[FinnishMF]

Anything is better than stryker :lol:

[Marmot1]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).

jebus.. Portugal is like 4 times smaller then Poland yet they order 1/2 the number of APC's thats crazy... How big is the Protugese army?


So if the AMV better then the Stryker?
Also Marmot... will we produce the AMV parts? Which ones will Polish workers make?


dont know which ones but AFAIK assembly hall for hulls will be in Bumar and they are acquiring some new equipment for plasma welding and cuting so probably hull itself will be asembled in poland but engines will remain 100% finish, also smaller parts and maybe whels will be made in poland but this is only rumor and not 100% positive... anyway "polonization" of AMV is predicted to reach up to 50-60% in the future first few will come from finland ,then next ones in parts and assembled ,and final goal is to produce hull in poland and fit is with polish made components (except engine powerpack and couple more vital compponents)

[mustamato]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).

jebus.. Portugal is like 4 times smaller then Poland yet they order 1/2 the number of APC's thats crazy... How big is the Protugese army?


So if the AMV better then the Stryker?
Also Marmot... will we produce the AMV parts? Which ones will Polish workers make?


dont know which ones but AFAIK assembly hall for hulls will be in Bumar and they are acquiring some new equipment for plasma welding and cuting so probably hull itself will be asembled in poland but engines will remain 100% finish, also smaller parts and maybe whels will be made in poland but this is only rumor and not 100% positive... anyway "polonization" of AMV is predicted to reach up to 50-60% in the future first few will come from finland ,then next ones in parts and assembled ,and final goal is to produce hull in poland and fit is with polish made components (except engine powerpack and couple more vital compponents)

So if the Poles get some Patrias blown up in Iraq or where they now will be
in the future we can always blame "such weaknesses in the hull must be there
because Polish welders are not as good as Finnish one" :D

[Dalleer]

By the way, some "possible AMV versions in the future":

http://members.surfeu.fi/stefan.allen/pics/kvaerner-1.jpg
"Tank killer". Finnish prototype tested a couple of years ago, armed with 4 TOW´s



Hmm, I suppose that if a "tank killer"-variant such as this would ever get produced we would have to get the TOW 2B's instead of the older (TOW 2A ?) TOW's we've got in place right now.

The truth is, that the older TOW's we've got are starting to be quite ineffective against more modern MBT's and more heavily armored vehicles, right ?

Additionally, I remember that someone talked about getting the TOW 2B's into our arsenal recently, but I can't remember correctly if there's been any further news concerning it.

[mustamato]

Additionally, I remember that someone talked about getting the TOW 2B's into our arsenal recently, but I can't remember correctly if there's been any further news concerning it.

It´s already used

http://www.rekyyli.com/uutiset/military/P6027269.JPG
... atleast that looks more like a B than a A to me :)

[wholagun]

screw that just get the SPIKE.... anything military that comes out of Israel is quality...

[Dalleer]

Additionally, I remember that someone talked about getting the TOW 2B's into our arsenal recently, but I can't remember correctly if there's been any further news concerning it.

It´s already used

http://www.rekyyli.com/uutiset/military/P6027269.JPG
... atleast that looks more like a B than a A to me :)

Yeah, that was the exact picture I was looking for reference.

So the B's are in use, hmm, alright...

[Marmot1]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).

jebus.. Portugal is like 4 times smaller then Poland yet they order 1/2 the number of APC's thats crazy... How big is the Protugese army?


So if the AMV better then the Stryker?
Also Marmot... will we produce the AMV parts? Which ones will Polish workers make?


dont know which ones but AFAIK assembly hall for hulls will be in Bumar and they are acquiring some new equipment for plasma welding and cuting so probably hull itself will be asembled in poland but engines will remain 100% finish, also smaller parts and maybe whels will be made in poland but this is only rumor and not 100% positive... anyway "polonization" of AMV is predicted to reach up to 50-60% in the future first few will come from finland ,then next ones in parts and assembled ,and final goal is to produce hull in poland and fit is with polish made components (except engine powerpack and couple more vital compponents)

So if the Poles get some Patrias blown up in Iraq or where they now will be
in the future we can always blame "such weaknesses in the hull must be there
because Polish welders are not as good as Finnish one" :D

They are better... ;) They welded so many tanks and APC so far that I thnk they have a lot more experience in welding than finns :lol: And first ones would be welded in Finnland so we can always blame them :lol: and then we can always blame that this particular one was actually welded in finnland ;)

[Resevoir Hogs]

I really wish the Brits would buy the Patria to replace the Saxon.

[wholagun]

I really wish the Brits would buy the Patria to replace the Saxon.


that or the Boxer, not sure which is better though.

is there any difference between the Boxer and the Partria except for the ability to take out the whole compartment? Also doesn't thta make it weaker since there is a seem that can be exposed?

[fdt]

I really wish the Brits would buy the Patria to replace the Saxon.


that or the Boxer, not sure which is better though.

is there any difference between the Boxer and the Partria except for the ability to take out the whole compartment? Also doesn't thta make it weaker since there is a seem that can be exposed?Difference will be in the mass of the basic vehicle:
- MRAV/Boxer - 25,2 t
- Patria - 20,5-21 t

Others are:

usable space
- MRAV/Boxer - 14m3
- Patria - 13m3

payload
- MRAV/Boxer - 7,8 t
- Patria - 10 t

I mentioned only the basic parameters as others will differ according to version of the vehicles.

[Ian H]

We were part of the Boxer programme, but withdrew last year. Doesn't fit in with our projected needs or something. Saxon will probably not be replaced in full (FCLV is replacing some I think) until the FRES programme comes into service in the 2010-2012 time period. I'm a bit sketchy on the details.

[REMOV]

AFAIK assembly hall for hulls will be in Bumar and they are acquiring some new equipment for plasma welding and cuting so probably hull itself will be asembled in poland but engines will remain 100% finishFirstly - AMV will be produced not by Bumar but by the WZM (in Siemianowice Sl.). Secondly - AMV's engine comes from Sweden (Scania).

[CannibalSquirel]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).

jebus.. Portugal is like 4 times smaller then Poland yet they order 1/2 the number of APC's thats crazy... How big is the Protugese army?




It´s not big, believe me! ;)

[0#256]

screw that just get the SPIKE.... anything military that comes out of Israel is quality...
We allready got the SPIKE... p-)

[wholagun]

Yeup, thats rigth.

Portugal is going to order 322 new armours ( 302 for the army, and 20 for the Marines ).

Patria is running against the Piranha ( Mowag ) and the Pandur ( Steyer ).






yeah but your getting 322 AMVs we got 700. Czech Rep I think needs less APCs from what I remember reading awhile back.

It´s not big, believe me! ;)

jebus.. Portugal is like 4 times smaller then Poland yet they order 1/2 the number of APC's thats crazy... How big is the Protugese army?

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

jebus.. Portugal is like 4 times smaller then Poland yet they order 1/2 the number of APC's thats crazy... How big is the Protugese army?

Hmm I don't know the situation in Portugal, but we still have ca. 1300 BMPs and AMVs will enter service in only 4 'medium' brigades. So BMP will still be our basic IFV. Maybe Portugal want to replace all of their current IFVs with AMVs.

[wholagun]

what is a BMP?

[Herrmannek]

what is a BMP?
"Boyowaya Mashina pyehoty" IFV

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

what is a BMP?

Man, you're serious? :D

http://www.wzm.pl/img/BWP1.jpg
This is the BMP-1, our basic IFV

[Lysander]

Does Poland still use the SKOT or is it being replaced by the Patria?

[Herrmannek]

Does Poland still use the SKOT or is it being replaced by the Patria?
Its being modernized

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Does Poland still use the SKOT or is it being replaced by the Patria?

Some (I'm not sure, maybe about 50-70) vechicles of the SKOT 'special' variants: command, engineering, radio vechicles etc. will be modernised into "Rys" variant with new engine, redesigned hull, and new electronics, rest of them is to be replaced by AMV.

[wholagun]

Does Poland still use the SKOT or is it being replaced by the Patria?

Some (I'm not sure, maybe about 50-70) vechicles of the SKOT 'special' variants: command, engineering, radio vechicles etc. will be modernised into "Rys" variant with new engine, redesigned hull, and new electronics, rest of them is to be replaced by AMV.

I remember Remov showing pics and saying that Rys (skot) will be used to transport the 98mm Mortar.

there were some pics posted on this site.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Does Poland still use the SKOT or is it being replaced by the Patria?
Its being modernized

You were a minute faster :D

[wholagun]

Rys M98, Mortar Carrier
(modernized SKOT)

http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysM98/RysM98-01.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysM98/RysM98-02.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysM98/RysM98-03.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysM98/RysM98-04.jpg


Rys E8, Wheeled APC
(modernized SKOT)

http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysE8/RysE8-01.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysE8/RysE8-02.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysE8/RysE8-03.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysE8/RysE8-04.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/RysE8/RysE8-05.jpg


Puma E8
(modernized BMP-1)

http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/PumaE8/PumaE8-01.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/PumaE8/PumaE8-02.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/PumaE8/PumaE8-03.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/PumaE8/PumaE8-04.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/PumaE8/PumaE8-05.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/PumaE8/PumaE8-06.jpg
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/PolishArmy/PumaE8/PumaE8-07.jpg

All photos by Michal Bartusiak

[perdurabo]

what is a BMP?
In Poland also known as BWP (Bojowy Wóz Piechoty) BMP is in russian but it still means the same IFV :)

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

I remember Remov showing pics and saying that Rys (skot) will be used to transport the 98mm Mortar.

there were some pics posted on this site.

Yup. it's the Rys M-98.
IMHO it's a bad idea because mortar crew still have to get out of the APC to fire the mortar. Hope they will develop a normal version, 'integrated' with the mortar (you know what I mean, something like this http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/2s23-2.jpg)

[perdurabo]

I remember Remov showing pics and saying that Rys (skot) will be used to transport the 98mm Mortar.

there were some pics posted on this site.

Yup. it's the Rys M-98.
IMHO it's a bad idea because mortar crew still have to get out of the APC to fire the mortar. Hope they will develop a normal version, 'integrated' with the mortar (you know what I mean, something like this http://naoruzanje.paracin.co.yu/2s23-2.jpg)
the best would be AMV with AMOS.

What do you think we should find new IFV or only modernise our BWP? (i personnaly like CV90 with whole family AMOS 120light tank... but prabably it would be to high cost for Poland :( )

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

What do you think we should find new IFV or only modernise our BWP? (i personnaly like CV90 with whole family AMOS 120light tank... but prabably it would be to high cost for Poland :( )

Yeahhhh, CV90's great woot :hug: But probably it's also the most expensive IFV in the world so we won't see it in Poland :(

I think that we should modernise BWPs into two variants:
- E8 version for NATO high readiness forces and 'first line' units ( like 10.BKPanc)
- cheap modernisation (new night vision & communication systems) for the rest and territorial defence.

[Ian H]

What weapons are on the Puma (BMP1), and how many people does it carry? I'd not heard of it before now.

[wholagun]

well right now we can't afford anything new...

But maybe in 5 years time we can look to the German PUMA IFV
http://www.imageshack.us/img1/6324/Puma_mit_Gitter1.jpg
http://www.imageshack.us/img1/1242/puma_vl1.jpg

How is the BWP/BMP any how?

[perdurabo]

What weapons are on the Puma (BMP1), and how many people does it carry? I'd not heard of it before now.
Its modernized BMP-1/BWP-1 with Rheinmetal E8 tower so its 30mm gun and 12,7 or 7,62 (??) mg prabably fuel tanks in rear dors are sealed off new comunications system Fonet (polish veeery god prabably India will buy it) its only demonstrator and whole program isn't decided yet :(

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

What weapons are on the Puma (BMP1), and how many people does it carry? I'd not heard of it before now.

Puma is the BMP1 variant with new Rheinmetall E8 turret instead of old Soviet turret with 73mm gun.

Crew: 3, it also carry 8 soldiers

[Ian H]

Cheers.

8 soldiers? I was under the impression you could only get six in a BMP1, or do they just sit on each other's knees? ;)

[FDF_Hemppis]

What weapons are on the Puma (BMP1), and how many people does it carry? I'd not heard of it before now.
Its modernized BMP-1/BWP-1 with Rheinmetal E8 tower so its 30mm gun and 12,7 or 7,62 (??) mg prabably fuel tanks in rear dors are sealed off new comunications system Fonet (polish veeery god prabably India will buy it) its only demonstrator and whole program isn't decided yet :(

A bit OT, but anyway:

I allways wondered why the ruskies put the fuel to the back doors. I mean, you can just about take an AK, fire it, and suddenly you have yourself a big moving barbeque...

Hmm...I wonder why the BMP is nicknamed "torch" in Finland ;)

[perdurabo]

What weapons are on the Puma (BMP1), and how many people does it carry? I'd not heard of it before now.
Its modernized BMP-1/BWP-1 with Rheinmetal E8 tower so its 30mm gun and 12,7 or 7,62 (??) mg prabably fuel tanks in rear dors are sealed off new comunications system Fonet (polish veeery god prabably India will buy it) its only demonstrator and whole program isn't decided yet :(

A bit OT, but anyway:

I allways wondered why the ruskies put the fuel to the back doors. I mean, you can just about take an AK, fire it, and suddenly you have yourself a big moving barbeque...

Hmm...I wonder why the BMP is nicknamed "torch" in Finland ;)
hehe i don't know why but i heard that in winter when eingine can't start they light fire under it and eingine starts :D (with soldiers in it! :D )
Maybe its BS :)

[REMOV]

I allways wondered why the ruskies put the fuel to the back doors. I mean, you can just about take an AK, fire it, and suddenly you have yourself a big moving barbeque...Rubbish. The BMP-1 has diesel engine. Diesel engines, boys, burns diesel oil (fuel oil), and such oil DON"T EXPLODE. Gosh, take a lighter and try to set fire to the fuel oil ;)

[FDF_Hemppis]

I allways wondered why the ruskies put the fuel to the back doors. I mean, you can just about take an AK, fire it, and suddenly you have yourself a big moving barbeque...Rubbish. The BMP-1 has diesel engine. Diesel engines, boys, burns diesel oil (fuel oil), and such oil DON"T EXPLODE. Gosh, take a lighter and try to set fire to the fuel oil ;)

It uses diesel? All versions of it, or just some new ones? Damn, I didn't even know that! :oops:
I'm so shamed that I have to treat myself with a big bowl'o'ice-cream ;)

Well, thanks to our Russian contributors, I stand corrected.

[wholagun]

Well, thanks to our Russian contributors, I stand corrected.


ahahaha burns the eyes.... ahahahah,,, Remov isn't Russian.. He's Polish... :cantbeli:

You stand corrected again. p-)

I don't think one Russian has posted in this thread thus far,, maybe they have, honestly Im too lazy to check'

[REMOV]

It uses diesel? All versions of it, or just some new ones?All versions - the BMP-1 uses Type UTD-20 6-cylinder in line water cooled diesel, the BMP-2 uses slightly modernized version of the same engine, supercharged. The BMP-3 uses Type UTD-29M 10-cylinder 4 stroke water-cooled diesel.

Damn, I didn't even know that!In the BMP-1 field manual is a part about this fuel tank and combat situations. It should be empty before fight and filled by a sand.

Well, thanks to our Russian contributors, I stand corrected.Ekhm... I'm the Pole (http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/pmm/_pl.gif) not Russian (http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/pmm/_ru.gif).

[Eddie]

In the BMP-1 field manual is a part about this fuel tank and combat situations. It should be empty before fight and filled by a sand.

That's interesting. Fuel and sand make a lovely combination in the engine...kidding. But russian engines probably won't mind a little bit of extra sand...

I remember reading that in the first Gulf War a couple of BMP's were set alight by snipers shooting .50 AP-I rounds into the rear fuel tanks. Anybody got more info about this?

[REMOV]

That's interesting. Fuel and sand make a lovely combination in the engine...kidding. But russian engines probably won't mind a little bit of extra sand...There are extra fuel tanks, you can separate them from rest of the fuel system.

[FDF_Hemppis]

It uses diesel? All versions of it, or just some new ones?All versions - the BMP-1 uses Type UTD-20 6-cylinder in line water cooled diesel, the BMP-2 uses slightly modernized version of the same engine, supercharged. The BMP-3 uses Type UTD-29M 10-cylinder 4 stroke water-cooled diesel.

Thanks for bringing me up to speed with that!

Damn, I didn't even know that!
In the BMP-1 field manual is a part about this fuel tank and combat situations. It should be empty before fight and filled by a sand.
Some of us don't spend their days reading BMP field manuals ;)
Emphasis on the words should be empty...

Well, thanks to our Russian contributors, I stand corrected.
Ekhm... I'm the Pole (http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/pmm/_pl.gif) not Russian (http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/pmm/_ru.gif).

OMG! My apologies for that! :oops:

[Mike 1-3]

Diesel fuel is supposedly very effective at stopping high-speed neutrons. The door fuel tanks in BMP series are there to protect the passengers from hard radiation in nuclear enviroment.

There is a reason for everything :).

[Lysander]

It uses diesel? All versions of it, or just some new ones?All versions - the BMP-1 uses Type UTD-20 6-cylinder in line water cooled diesel, the BMP-2 uses slightly modernized version of the same engine, supercharged. The BMP-3 uses Type UTD-29M 10-cylinder 4 stroke water-cooled diesel.

Damn, I didn't even know that!In the BMP-1 field manual is a part about this fuel tank and combat situations. It should be empty before fight and filled by a sand.

Well, thanks to our Russian contributors, I stand corrected.Ekhm... I'm the Pole (http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/pmm/_pl.gif) not Russian (http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/pmm/_ru.gif).

I feel stupid even asking this, but do the soldiers have to carry sand with them? Is this part of the standard equipment? Also, how do they clean the sand out in order to put more fuel in?

[Herrmannek]

In Europe sand isn't deficite product, just dig one metre deep hole...