Spanish Army in Iraq

[MARINO]

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The sun sets as a Spanish soldier sits at his machinegun gun guarding a helicopter landing zone at the military base of Najaf

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An elderly Iraqi woman passes Spanish soldiers patrolling the Iraqi town of Diwaniya, about 120 miles south of the capital Baghdad March 16, 2004.

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An elderly Iraqi woman passes a Spanish soldier patrolling the Iraqi town of Diwaniya, about 120 miles south of Baghdad March 16, 2004

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A Spanish soldier exercises at his base in the southern city of Diwaniya, 180 kms from Baghdad.

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A Spanish soldier (R) patrols with Iraqi paramilitary police in the Iraqi town of Diwaniya, about 200 km (120 miles) south of the capital Baghdad, March 16, 2004

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Some with IDF , i hope they will stay in Iraq.

[HELEX]

What happens with this bearded guy when the Iraqis use their secret hidden chemical weapons? His protection Mask wont fit properly...

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[Imshi-Yallah]

What the/
How long have they been using the G36? What happened to the Cetme model L?

[dumdidum]

What happens with this bearded guy when the Iraqis use their secret hidden chemical weapons? His protection Mask wont fit properly...

You must be used to som crappy mask. The swedish "skyddsmask 90" works perfect even with a beard thats has had a couple of days to grow.

[scoone]

What the/
How long have they been using the G36? What happened to the Cetme model L?

It has been in service for 4 years I think.
And btw, real great pics Marino woot woot woot woot

[MARINO]

In Spanish Legion is a tradition to have a barb, and death is no matter for Spanish Legioneers, they call themselves they boyfriends of death. :D

[MARINO]

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[Vintendo]

So did they start leaving Iraq yet? I remember seeing pics of Spanish troops arriving back in Spain somewhere.
Personally I think it's cowardly to let terrorists decide what to do for you.

[Lobo]

The soldiers retired now are the second "shift". The first group of soldiers from the third one left Spain a few days ago. The decision about pulling back the troops will be taken next summer. The coming Spanish goverment wants a UN approved mission, and the deadline for the expected command change is June 30th. Then the decision will taken.


The Spanish commitment on the so called "War on terror" not only comprise the participation in the Munltinational Division in Irak. Spanish soldiers are in Afghanistan and Red Sea. Do you remember the assault to North Korean vessel "So San"?
http://www.terciodearmada.com/operac9.jpg

Take a look in:
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Spanish_Special_Forces_Board_Ship

Short time ago, the Spanish marine Special Operations Unit took part in exercise Sea Saber 2004. Pictures here:
http://www.militar.org.ua/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3292&start=0

In the caption of the pictures, you can read about Spaniards who are currently forward deployed to the Arabian Sea in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom.

An Al Qaeda cell was found in Morocco certain time ago trying to make an attack to American warships like that suffered by U.S.S. Cole. So during OIF Spanish Navy and marines escorted allied ships crossing Gibraltar Strait. It was called Operation Strong Escort.
http://www.terciodearmada.com/operac12.jpg

By the way, it is being considered sending more soldiers to Afghanistan.

[Loco]

So did they start leaving Iraq yet? I remember seeing pics of Spanish troops arriving back in Spain somewhere.
Personally I think it's cowardly to let terrorists decide what to do for you.
Oh my God...and the story goes on and on...I think´s really a bad attitud talking without knowing and thinking. Well, let´s compare, if you want to talk of bravery and cowardly: Spanish people weren´t terrified in the moment of the attacks in 3/11, like many americans were after the 9/11 through the hole continent. People helped quietly and without histeria, only weeped in funerals. Nobody stopped of travelling in trains, airplanes or cars nor changed their destination for next week hollydays, we didn´t round up the foreing people, like you, but the policemen are working hard and since the second day they have caught more than 10 terrorists. Here people have a cold anger, aren´t terrified. That´s why so many people voted. Everyone voted what they wanted, we only want truth and fighting terrorism. It´s time americans ask their politicians the same and don´t tell to the rest of allied countries bull****. If you want to say you´r very brave, go to Madrid and tell it face to face to people. Don´t teach lessons to anybody, you´re the typical one that believes he´s in a western movie.

[lefador1]

So did they start leaving Iraq yet? I remember seeing pics of Spanish troops arriving back in Spain somewhere.
Personally I think it's cowardly to let terrorists decide what to do for you.

Are you really that stupid or do you follow any sort of training to increase your level of stupidity? Next time you decide to pee on the tombs of our dead remember that we may return the favor in kind.

Iraqui people did nothing to us, the Spanish voters voted accordingly it was not a knee jerk reaction since the political party that won had advocated the removal of Spanish troops from Iraq since the war began. We'll fight terrorism all the way, Iraq however has nothing to do with it regardless of how much propaganda you decide to take for granted.

[obd]

Uh, your trying to say that Spanish people were not terrified like US people?? Thats got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard and it makes no sense. First of all I saw pics of hundreds of Spaniards running for thier lives in terror from that train and than thousands crying thier eyes out just like Americans and trying to say it was thier 9/11 as if anywhere near 3,000 people had died.

Second, over 3,000 died 9/11 which is far far more than the numbers killed on 3/11 so you can hardly compaire you moron

Next, America responded by taking the war to the terrorists in Afghanistan, a place where many powerful armies have died, including both a major British army and a major Russian army and the Americans kciked ass in A-stan and killed, by both our estimates and by Taliban news releases over 30,000 enemy. Of course, the Taliban said we had killed 30,000 innocent people but we all know that crap.. You Spanish contributed a few hundred in Kabul. Please!!! There are over 10,000 US troops and it was US, along with British special units that did the vast majority of the fighitng and ass kicking of the Taliban.

Next, Spanish people responded in fear like cowards and elected a ****ing socialist regime who promised to pull troops out of Iraq. The cowardly and stupid response of the Spanish people is going to bring more terrorist attacks to the world because now they think they can change the political arena by using terror. And you know what, it worked very well in Spain BECAUSE the spanish people reacted like such cowards and pussies. Amercan people responded by volunteering by the thousands for service in A-stan and Iraq. Spanish people reponded by crying in the streets and then retreating everywhere.

Hate to break it to you but Socialism isnt gonna stop AQ attacks. Hell, just a few days ago there was yet another bomb found on a Spanish railway. Being pussies isnt going to make AQ stop. In fact, Al Queda is laughing at you panzie Spansih right now. Proof is in thier press release about the attacks thanking Spain for responding so well to thier wishes........and you have the nerve to call American response cowardly!!!!!

edited-b
Personal insults will not be tolerated.
You have been warned

[Loco]

______

[rob]

while obd is a little extreme in what he said i can say spain mad ethe world a safer place with there actions after the attack.

i was not in spain or anything but from media over here it looks like AQ said leave iraq and killed osme people and the spanish people did so.

encouraging terrorism wont help anyone, i would like to hear your side because the media in the us makes it seem like this and i know it is not nessicarly true.

[Loco]

____

[rob]

i didnt notice that. im sorry as my spanish is very bad but i believe it says something about "the milk of your mom is________" i dont know the last word.

that was rather inmature.

[SiFiOn]

[quote="MARINO"]In Spanish Legion is a tradition to have a barb, and death is no matter for Spanish Legioneers, they call themselves they boyfriends of death. :D

Nice answer.. Good work on the pics MARINO!

[MichaelF]

Does the Spanish Legion still accept foreigners?

IIRC, the Legion's motto is something like "To Hell with reason, long live Death."

Mean bunch, especially during the North African campaigns, and during the Civil War under Franco. Killed lots of commies.

One officer (non-Legion) was appalled when the Legionaires paraded with bayonets fixed. On the bayonets were the severed heads of some bandits/natives. Surprise.


Mike

[Lobo]

Those images can be found in the Internet. Cutting enemies heads and parading with them on bayonets was an answer to Moroccans behaviour with Spanish prisioners.

Spanish Army is accepting foreign citizens from Latin America living in Spain and second or third generation Spaniards living in Latin America.

[MichaelF]

What about Spanish-speaking non-latins? I've a buddy who would love to. Hell, I might, but I'm up for the USMC.



Mike

[obd]

The phrase "la leche de tu mama es sucio" is intended to be very insulting and is perhaps the most insulting thing you can say to someone in Spanish. It was intended to insult Loco as he insutled me by saying that Americans creid and acted like cowards after the 9/11 attacks while the Spanish were brave.

One of my extended family died in the World Trade Center and to have some Spanish **** tell me my nation is full of cowards when we took the fight to Al Queda on its own damn turf in Afghanistan and then we took the fight to the Phillipines and then we took the fight to Iraq and wer are taking the fight tothe enemy all over the world killing them off one by one in the dark places of the world......and while the Spanish at the same time are retreating from Iraq, have elected a socialist scumbag regime, and cried thier eyes out for the world after the 3/11 attacks.....

Well it just made me angry and feel insulted. Especially since what he said has no truth to it at all and the exact opposite is actually the case: The Americans reacted to 9/11 with steady resolve and took the fight to the enemy on thier own ground and killed them off by the thousands...

The Spanish response was to elect a socialist government and retreat from its committments to its allies. Hardly heroic if you ask me. Not to mention the fact that it made the world a more dangerous place because it made Al Queda think it could achive its aims and actually bring about political change through terror.

Its ok though. Al Queda has seen the weakness of the Spanish people. Already there have been more attacks on Spain. There was just a bomb explosion today in which one policeman was killed and Spanish police found more bombs on a main track a few days ago. Funny, but there havnt been any more attacks from Al Queda on American home soil since 9/11.......The reason is because we responded with courage, resolve, and overwhelming force...

Its ok though. Spain will recieve more bloody noses as a result of Al Queda thinking they are weaklings and have no courage. America will remain secure because Al Queda knows we are strong and our people will volunteer to meet them on the field of battle..

[Lobo]

I thought morons talking BS about Spanish politics without clue had got tired of being bashed enough. But once a while a kid like obd gets daddy's computer and asks for a lesson. I have explained this many times. I won't get tired of explaining it agan.

So... Kid, pay attention and STF!!!.

War on Terror
Spain has sadly a long experience dealing with terrorism. One thing we have learnt during these years is that fighting terrorist isn't like a war. There aren't a a war front to fight at and a rear echelon where to feel safe. There isn't enemy headquarters to bomb with your air force. It's a silent slow longly undercover work that involves not so glamourous tasks like dismantling money laundry networks. Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan was an exception to this, but the most of weirdos there were fighting in the Afghan civil war.

When September 11th happened and we were asked to join the fight against Al Qaeda, we did in the way we knew. We became the
European country that has dismantled more Al Qaeda cells so far. We send troops to Afghanistan and ships to the Red Sea. obd's little ***** got hard seeing bombs falling over Afghan villages, but it's interesting to ask to ourselves why the USA wasn't pressing enough Saudi Arabia to cut the funding of Al Qaeda. A Greek guy started a thread on it but nobody wanted to disscus about it. Interesting, isn't it? :roll:

GWB's second step was invading Irak, that didn't have links with Al Qaeda and didn't have WMD. I read Scott Ritter's book on Irak and found it quite reasonable. It made me also wondering about what would happen with that 60% Shia majority (there was a demostration supporting HAMAS and Hizbollah in Baghdad) and the 17% Sunni minority. In Europe we have the impression it was going to be like opening Pandora's box. We had a dictatorship for almost 40 years, and I'm sure nobody would have traded it for seeing his familiy becoming a "collateral damage" and his country some kind of neocolonial protectorate.

The public Centro de Investigaciones Sociológicas (Sociological Reserch Center) makes a public opinion poll every month and asked in February 2003 about the invasion of Irak.

Study 2.481 February 2003

¿Está Ud. muy de acuerdo, bastante, poco o nada de acuerdo con que se produzca un intervención militar contra Irak?

Degree of support to the invasion of Irak.

Muy de acuerdo........... 1.2 high
Bastante de acuerdo.... 4.1 fair
Poco de acuerdo.......... 20.8 low
Nada de acuerdo......... 70.0 nothing
N.S. .......................... 3.4 don't know
N.C. ......................... 0.4 don't answer

If you split them up between "yes" and "know" you get as conclusion that more than the 90% of Spanish people disagreed with the invasion of Irak.

Two months later another survery was made on the support to sending troops to Irak.
Study 2508 April 2003

Como Ud. sabe, España ha enviado al conflicto de Irak una fuerza militar en misión humanitaria. ¿Está Ud. muy de acuerdo, bastante de acuerdo, poco de acuerdo o nada de acuerdo con este envío?

Degree of support to the sending of soldiers in "humanitarian mission"

Muy de acuerdo 20.0
Bastante de acuerdo 40.7
Poco de acuerdo 14.5
Nada de acuerdo 20.4
Le es indiferente 1.6
N.S. 2.2
N.C. .6

Splitting it up again in "yes" and "no" we have more than 60% percent of support.

And it was asked also about the involvement in the "international actions to rebuild Irak".

En su opinión, finalizada la guerra de Irak, ¿debe España participar en las acciones internacionales destinadas a la reconstrucción del país?

After the war, should Spain take part in the internacional actions to rebuild the country?

Sí 68.2 yes
No 22.5 no
N.S. 8.2 doen't know
N.C. 1.1 doesn't answer

So let's talk about elections. One week before, everyone took for granted that the Popular Party (conservative) would win the elections, but the question was if it would happen without enough seats in the Parliament to make his candidate president of government. Some analysts made polls that showed a growing support to Socialist Party (socialdemocrat) candidate. He had played Mr Nice role, reminding us the reasons to not vote the Popular Party but without giving a clear idea about why we should vote him. Among his promises was BRINGING BACK the troops in Irak (no those in Kosovo, no those in Bosnia, no those in Afghanistan, no those in the Red Sea). He didn't say anything about stopping fighting against terrorism.

Thne we have those bombs on Thursday, March 11th (3 days before national election day).

7:39 A chain of explosions rocks four commuter trains in South East Madrid. Each of us thought inmediately about ETA. I'm sure millions talked about it and said "¡Hijos de puta!".

11:30 A van, pointed by a witness as suspicious, was found with
-An audio tape with Koran's verses in Arabic
-Some detonators of a different kind of the usually employed by ETA
-An empty cartridge of Explosivos Río Tinto "Goma 2 ECO", an explosive material of a different kind of the usually employed by ETA

13:30 Interior Minister Acebes talked with the media and blames ETA and says that blaming other ones is an attempt to make people get confused and it's a political manoeuvre.

He said exactly:

Quote:
"El gobierno no tiene ninguna duda que ETa está detrás de los atentados. Resulta intolerable cualquier tipo de intoxicación que vaya dirigida por parte de miserables, a desviar el objetivo y los responsables de este drama y esta tragedia".

Goverment called on Thursday for a big demostration the following day in Madrid "to support the victims, the Constitution and against terrorism". Take note it didn't call to support democracy, but Constitution. Time ago the president of Basque Country launched a proposal to become a "free associated state" as Puerto Rico, that goes far beyond the degree of self-goverment that the Constitution gives to regional goverments.

The demostration took place on Friday evening. But before it ETA had denied its relation with the killings and a supposed Al Qaeda group took responsability in a letter to London based "Al Quds Al Arabiya" newspaper. More reasons to not believe the ETA involvment was the fact that placing 13 backpacks in 4 trains involved an ammount of people that ETA wasn't able to sneak into Madrid. All its last attempts to make terrorist attacks had ended as a failure. The only terrorists ETA could enroll last Christmas were a bunch of crybabies who were given a 45 minute lesson about how to set some bombs that didn't work.

I went to the demostration with a friend. It was confusing. There were more banners blaming ETA than Al Qaeda. Many people shouted against Arnaldo Otegui, spokeman of the now illegal political branch of ETA. Some banners just said "ETA = Al Qaeda". Many people shouted "¿Quién ha sido?" (Who has been?).

On Saturday a media group that supports the Socialist Party quoted foreign medias that found hard to blame ETA. And it reported about the complains of foreigner journalist in Spain about governmental pressure to blame ETA. In the other hand Conservative media said there was a conspiration to blame Al Qaeda to distract attention of the fact that Socialist Party's ally in Catalonia government negociated with ETA. (long story, I'm summing up). The idea was that in case ETA was behind the attack people would support the conservative party asking for a harder approach to terrorism and punish socialdemocrat party for keeping an alliance with a party who negotiated with ETA.

Then it was around 5 o'clock in the afternoon when minister Acebes announced that 3 Moroccan citizens and 2 Indian citizens were under police custody for their involvement in the bombigs (Note. Two days later!!! A quick and successful investigation). Then it exploded.

One hour later hundreds of people demostrated in front of Partido Popular's office in Madrid. The same happened in may other cities and tows in Spain. People felt that goverment had lied, or at least, given confussing information to present the terrorist attack as an action of ETA, and get a massive support in the coming election.

Spain has 42 millions inhabitants. Around 18 or 19 million people vote to the main two parties Partido Popular (Popular Party, conservative) and Partido Socialista Obrero Español (Socialist Party, socialdemocrat).

These are the figures for the 2000 election .
http://www.elmundo.es/especiales/2004/03/espana/14m/resultados/anteriores/congreso/globales/

23.864.497 went to vote that day (68,71% participation)

10.321.178 votes went for the Popular Party that got 183 seats
7.918.752 votes went for the Socialist Party that got 125 seats

Popular Party got 2.402.426 more votes than Socialist Party

If people like obd was right, what happened last election daywas that thousands of people in Spain ****ted their trousers and skirts, start crying like girls and rushed to vote to the Socialist Party "Please, plaese, let Osama has it in his way, pull back the soldiers back from Irak".

It's interesting to note, that after the bombings all political parties and the goverment called for a massive participation as an act of support of the Spanish democracy.

Let's take a look to the figures of 2004 election.
http://www.elmundo.es/especiales/2004/03/espana/14m/resultados/congreso/globales/

25.846.620 went to voted (77.21 % participation).

The goverment and the political parties called for a massive participation in the elections. In the neibourghoods around the stations who suffered the bomb attacks the participation was higher than the 80%. The overall rise of participation was 8,5 points. 1.982.123 more people went to vote last Sunday.

So what's about the results?

10.909.687 votes were for the Socialist Party that got 164 seats
9.630.512 votes were for the Popular Party that got 148 seats

Popular Party got 690.666 votes less. Socialist Party got 2.990.935 votes more. Interesting, isn't it?

Before the bombings it was expected that the Popular Party would lose support and it would fall below the 176 seats barriers needed to make a goverment in Spain. Many times they are suprises and the surveys are total BS so we can't say what would had happened in the case of bombing didn't happen. In the case of the "cry baby theory" was true, it wouldn't be enough to explain the Socialist victory. It's sure that Socialist Party won because not because it "stole" support to the Popular Party, but a lot of people who usually not go to vote went to do it for the Socialist Party.
Who were them? They were young people who say "Nothing is going to change whoever govern", "Politics is **** and all politicians are bastards". They demonstrated against the Popular Party several times in the last years: Against the new university law (LOU), against the management of the Prestige oil tanker sinking (our "Exxon Valdez"), against the war and the day before the elections against the government... The demonstrations against Popular Party lthat day were organised by the Short Message System (a feature of GSM mobile phones) that is a craze among young people in countries like Spain. Socialist Party always failed to get he support of the people who had got angry with the goverment.. But the terrorist attack and government's management of the information infuriated people, and they had a way to show their anger.

If something has made us feel deeply ashamed it was Mr Aznar licking the ass to GWB. (Well, it was worse when our Foreign Affairs Minister bowed so many times in a very theatrical way to greet Mrs. Bush in Madrid). We believed the reasons given for the war were a bunch of lies (as it resulted to be) and we opposed to it. Our pride was insulted with Aznar pathetically dreams of grandeur. 62 Spanish soldiers (officiers, NCO and soldiers I mean) died in plane crash in Turkey. They were coming back from Afghanistan in an crappy plane because there wasn't enough fund for a better one.

So my conclusions...

*Did the terrorist attack last Thursday influenced the elections?
Absolutely. But the change of expected results are explained by inner Spanish politics.

*Will Spain give up in "War on Terror"?
No, if you mean fighting against Al Qaeda. They have killed 191 fellow citizens and foreign workers who came to Spain to have a better life. Why we wouldn't want to fight against those hijos de puta? Having the Socialist Party in the goverment means only that Spain won't support illegal wars against a country not related with Al Qaeda to find imaginary WMD.

*Brining back the troops to Spain, isn't giving the wrong message to Al Qaeda?
Of course. Zapatero pretends to acomplish what he promised long time before the elections, but in the context following the terrorist attacks in Madrid it's going to be a wrong decision. Anyway the decision will be taken next June, and it depends in a change of command. Our new PM wants an UN command to keep the soldiers there.

All morons kept quiet after I explained all that in other threads, and they forgot Spain soon. You weren't paying attention to it, but Spanish police was catching terrorists like cockroachs in a kitchen after turning on the light. The Europan Union is going to take new measures to fight terrorism (UK police also catched Al Qaeda terrorists last week and avoided a terrorist attack. Dozens of Turkish left wing terrorist were catched also in European countries).


your trying to say that Spanish people were not terrified like US people??
Life goes as ever in Spain. I haven't heard anyone asking to to bomb Morocco to relieve our rage. I haven't heard anything saying is afraid of taking a train or a plan. We hadn't mobs attacking shij people (from India) only because they wear turban. There has been a quick and succesful police investigation. And we are glad about it.

I read in the British newspaper "The Independent" that a top officer said they wouldn't be able to manage a terrorist attack like the one in Madrid. There were 191 dead people (some more bodies are not identified) and around 1.600 wounded people. I didn't heard anoyne saying it was a chaos. Psychological aid was prepared inmediately for the victims and their relatives. I'm sure that someone in Madrid took good notes after September 11th. I have many foreign classmates and I live in a flat with Italian and German people. Many of them were in shock after the bombings. We, Spaniards, said: "It has been terrible, it has been bigger than anything before. But we are used to it".

To be continued.

[lucki]

Lobo, Lobo.....

Don't worry about these opinions. Not all american people think the same.

I think, spanish people, we know what terrorism is and few people has been so touched by terrorism like us. We have more of 30 years of experience in this type of fight.

Simply, I think all spanish people know that the bad-called "War against terrorism" is one thing and "War against Irak" is another thing.

When we have to read posts like obd phrase: "la leche de tu mama es sucio" (sic) the best answer is the famous and rich spanish literature; the same book which begin with En un lugar de la Mancha... has the phrase:

¿Ladran Sancho? Luego cabalgamos....


encouraging terrorism wont help anyone, i would like to hear your side because the media in the us makes it seem like this and i know it is not nessicarly true.

Rob, this is a very intelligent opinion. To read from as more sources as possible I think it's a good example.

Regards.

[Loco]

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[Djeep]

first of all obd, your spanish is a **** because your phrase has no sense
I am spanish, i am agree with your war against the terrorism in afganistan but not with the Iraq occupation.
This war is only to control the petrol sources and finish the job of bush's daddy.
You don't know anything about our country, before the terrorist attack millions of people didn't want to send troops to irak and the socialists assured us the leaving of troops once they would be elected, for that reason we voted the socialist party, no because of a coward attitude.you can't say that to us, a country that has been suffering terrorism from inside (ETA).
our condolences with the GEO policeman's family and friends.
take note, obd

[Loco]

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[Haiw]

obd, do you really believe your own crap?

[Mamon]

Second, over 3,000 died 9/11 which is far far more than the numbers killed on 3/11 so you can hardly compaire you moron
If you would stop to think for a minute, you can compare because the US has a population of some 270 million, while Spain has about 40 million. Doing the math shows the proportion is quite close.

You're the moron here buddy because the phrase "la leche de tu mama es sucia" makes absolutely no godamn sense. It's something that a 5 year old kid would say.


The phrase "la leche de tu mama es sucio" is intended to be very insulting and is perhaps the most insulting thing you can say to someone in Spanish.

The most insulting thing you can say in Spanish? C'mon now, get your head out of your ass.

Anyways, las fotos esas de la Legion son chulisima. Estan mas moreno esos chavales que yo despues de un verano en la costa del sol! :lol:

[Wilco]

Wow OBD, your a ****ing ****.

[Ichhabe]

First of all: About a 1000 of the casulties at WTC was foreigners.

Second; Measuring losses in different terrorist attacks like it was a ***** measurment contest in your high school lockers obd!?!?! Get real, or get out. :bash:

[MARINO]

You don't know anything about our country, before the terrorist attack millions of people didn't want to send troops to irak and the socialists assured us the leaving of troops once they would be elected, for that reason we voted the socialist party, no because of a coward attitude.

Not all Spanish voted to PSOE, but if we retired our troops from Iraq you can't denying that we would be acting cowardly.

[rafaelcb]

SPAIN suffers terrrist attacks since 1967 and almost NO ONE helped us.
US suffered the 9/11 attack. Spain helped immediatly sending troops to Afghanistan. No one criticiced this decision in Spain, even after we lost 67 excellent men and women in that mission.
US (or rather Bush) decides to invade Irak. The Spanish government decides to support the invasion in spite of public opinion to be against it. I suppose Aznar thought that one must e with his allies whether they are right or not. Other political parties from the begining thought this was not correct and announced that if they win, they would pull Spanish troops out of Irak unless UN takes control of this country.
We suffered the 11/03 attack and shortly after the opposition won the elections in which 80% of electors voted. Since then the material autors of the train attack are arrested or killed. (BTW, our police has done an excellent job others could learn a ot from)
Troops in Irak have been replaced as programmed but the number of soldiers remains the same as before. I dont know if the troops will remain or return, and although I think they should stay, the new Spainsh government has all the right to remove the troops if they finally decide so.

Where is the cowardy? None of our soldiers have declared 'Objectors' as some americans did when they arrived in Irak and saw how it was there. And of course I am not intending to insult the Americans serving there.

[MARINO]

Most of Spanish soldiers don't want to leave Iraq, but they had to do it they must follow orders, but it's not the question.
If the new goverment put our troops out of Iraq he would be acting cowardly, and terrorists would belive that they have made their "duty".

[hahaha]

Nothing cowardly in what the Spainards did or will do.

[MichaelF]

Spain is a sovereign nation, they don't answer to us(meaning America). If they feel they need to pull out, then we should thank them for the help given so far and wish them well. Not everyone signed on for the -whole- War, like the Brits have. Spain has helped us in the 'Stan from the first, and in Iraq for quite a while. They don't "owe" us more. If they want to help, thats outstanding, but telling them to stand and deliver is unAmerican, and not in keeping with the War aims.
I wish they werent pulling out, but it is their choice, and we have no treaty or agreement which gives us the right to expect them to hop when we say.
They got tagged by Haji, same as we did, let them work through it their own way. They may decide to join back in for a future campaign.

Mike

[obd]

Interesting. Im not Spanish so please dont expect my Spanish to be good. You dont see me bashing loco because of his English do you? Of course not. His primary language is Spanish so I dont expect his English to be as good as mine. Yet I get bashed for my Spanish when I already said my Spanish wasnt good. Pointless people, pointless.......

Either way, all of you are twisting the facts. Example: Well the Spanish deaths are equal to the American deaths do to populaiton size. Maybe but that still doenst change the fact that 3,000 lives and 3 major airline suicides is a heeluva lot different than some suitcase bombs on trians.

Fact is, Spains new socialist government appeases terror and it will only make it worse. The bomb plotters captured were, according to Spanish news, in the works of creating more explosives and bombings. Like I said, the Spainish acting like pussies and pulling away fom committments to its allied will not help them. The terrorists will continue to attack. There are not my ideas, just what was reported by Spanish news.

Also, the ideas that AQ thanked Spain for electing a socialist and pulling out of Iraq were not mine either. They were in a statement given by a known and popular Al Queda spokemsan who said AQ was pleased that Spain had acted exactly how it wanted Spain to act wand was going ot reward them for thier panzi assed behavior by stopping attacks.....clearly now a lie as they were planning more......

Loco, I will apologize to you for my statement as soon as you apologize to me for calling Americans cowards after 9/11. If you look at the posts, your insult came first and I simply reponded to it. I will not apologize to yo unitil you take back your idiot comment. My cooment was perhaps innapropriate as well but it stands until I hear an apology from you. Only then will I delete it......

One of my family died in the WTC attacks on 9/11. I and everyone I know responded brrave;ly and gave 100% support to the troops by sending tem letters of support and best wished and such.....I was and I still ma deeply offended by you calling Americans COWARDS and I in turn awaite your apology LOCO.

[scoone]

Interesting. Im not Spanish so please dont expect my Spanish to be good. You dont see me bashing loco because of his English do you? Of course not. His primary language is Spanish so I dont expect his English to be as good as mine. Yet I get bashed for my Spanish when I already said my Spanish wasnt good. Pointless people, pointless.......

Either way, all of you are twisting the facts. Example: Well the Spanish deaths are equal to the American deaths do to populaiton size. Maybe but that still doenst change the fact that 3,000 lives and 3 major airline suicides is a heeluva lot different than some suitcase bombs on trians.

Fact is, Spains new socialist government appeases terror and it will only make it worse. The bomb plotters captured were, according to Spanish news, in the works of creating more explosives and bombings. Like I said, the Spainish acting like pussies and pulling away fom committments to its allied will not help them. The terrorists will continue to attack. There are not my ideas, just what was reported by Spanish news.

Also, the ideas that AQ thanked Spain for electing a socialist and pulling out of Iraq were not mine either. They were in a statement given by a known and popular Al Queda spokemsan who said AQ was pleased that Spain had acted exactly how it wanted Spain to act wand was going ot reward them for thier panzi assed behavior by stopping attacks.....clearly now a lie as they were planning more......

Loco, I will apologize to you for my statement as soon as you apologize to me for calling Americans cowards after 9/11. If you look at the posts, your insult came first and I simply reponded to it. I will not apologize to yo unitil you take back your idiot comment. My cooment was perhaps innapropriate as well but it stands until I hear an apology from you. Only then will I delete it......

One of my family died in the WTC attacks on 9/11. I and everyone I know responded brrave;ly and gave 100% support to the troops by sending tem letters of support and best wished and such.....I was and I still ma deeply offended by you calling Americans COWARDS and I in turn awaite your apology LOCO.

Americans are not cowards that's for sure and you don't have to say anything about your spanish. I think that the USA did what the had to do after de 9/11, strike back. The situation in spain is very difficult, we are facing a new way of terrorism that we had never face before. In the anti-terrorist raid in Madrid they found a lot of explosives so they were about to make another attack in Spain.
I hope that the new govt. will consider the chance of keeping the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.Weeks ago AQ members were "only" asking for the retreat from Iraq, now they have included Afghanistan, soon they will include Ceuta, Melilla and the Canary Islands, then Al-andalus ( Andalucia).That's the fact pull out? never.Let's hope that the UN take command of our troops so we can stay there.
Obviously , few people is going share my opinion.
And btw sorry for my bad english, although part of my family is brittish I need a lot of practice.

[rafaelcb]

Fact is, Spains new socialist government appeases terror and it will only make it worse. The bomb plotters captured were, according to Spanish news, in the works of creating more explosives and bombings. Like I said, the Spainish acting like pussies and pulling away fom committments to its allied will not help them. The terrorists will continue to attack. There are not my ideas, just what was reported by Spanish news.

There is not yet any 'new socialist government'. The old governement will remain in charge for a few weeks more.



Also, the ideas that AQ thanked Spain for electing a socialist and pulling out of Iraq were not mine either. They were in a statement given by a known and popular Al Queda spokemsan who said AQ was pleased that Spain had acted exactly how it wanted Spain to act wand was going ot reward them for thier panzi assed behavior by stopping attacks.....clearly now a lie as they were planning more......

You are doing a big favour to AQ by believing what they say. They will attack where and when the impact is greatest. Maybe now Spain is a good target, but probably they will attack somewhere else, where no one expects it.

Following your same logic, we are today much braver than yesterday: A new demand from AQ has been published: that Spain pulls the troops from Afghanistan. Fact is our troops in Afghanistan have been doubled.
Bravery does not depend on what a terrorist group publises. Bravery is to keep fighting your enemies (as we are doing) when things look bad as now. We may have defects as a Nation, but for sure we are not the ones who leave without a fight.

[Loco]

Thanks to Mods, although I would prefer the paragraph had been deleted by the one who wrote it. Now I´ll do my part and will delete my claims.
_____________________________________________
If anyone here, being american, felt disturbed or insulted because the things I wrote in page 1, I say sincerely excuse me, but it wasn´t my intention to ofend anyone, and the things I wrote are things I´d feel free to talking face to face with everybody, sadly in Spain, mainly where I live and in Madrid, we have of first time the experience of terrorism, the most of people I know around me know of some terrorist action of Eta, and when there´s an attack, we know how to act, I´d prefere not having this experience. But it´s true that I felt proud 3/11 of Madrid people, the way they acted, it wasn´t a common behaviour in any place I know. ________________________________________________________-
Obd, you don´t hope me to apologize in anyway or asking excuses to you, I am not crazy, you don´t deserve excuses. I don´t believe any word you can say. I finish this affair here and I hope you do the same and you keep respect to Spain as to anyother country. And pleeeease, this is a thread about Spanish army, don´t destroy it. Let´s talking about spanish army.

[xjym2002]

Talking about Spanish Army, I've seen a spanish movie called "Guerreros" that depicts a tragedy of a squad of Spanish peacekeeping force in Kosovo. I want to know is it based on a true event?

[scoone]

Talking about Spanish Army, I've seen a spanish movie called "Guerreros" that depicts a tragedy of a squad of Spanish peacekeeping force in Kosovo. I want to know is it based on a true event?

It's based in true events, what I mean is that some parts of the film are based on real things like the moment in which the BMR sunks in the river.
But other parts are fiction, we never had a platoon running through the forests or prisioner like in the film.
Personally I don't like that film although they had a big help from the spanish army it's not a very good movie.

[xjym2002]

So it's largely a fiction. Feels better. I actually didn't finish watching this movie after the soldiers detained by Serbians.

BTW, today after I posted the question I googled this film, unfortunately I found in another forum this film being used as evidence to attack Spanish.

[scoone]

BTW, today after I posted the question I googled this film, unfortunately I found in another forum this film being used as evidence to attack Spanish.

Really???? What evidence can they found in such a film where 90% is fiction?

[xjym2002]

Really???? What evidence can they found in such a film where 90% is fiction?

It's called "A Conservative News Forum".
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1098738/posts
Personally I don't understand why the director make a fiction like this which Hollywood would never try.

[scoone]

Really???? What evidence can they found in such a film where 90% is fiction?

It's called "A Conservative News Forum".
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1098738/posts
Personally I don't understand why the director make a fiction like this which Hollywood would never try.

Incredible, I've just read the topic in the link, incredible. There are idiots all around the globe! , people belive in things and they don't mind if it's real o fiction, just incredible.
BTW the Spanish film industry sucks!.

[Mamon]

BTW the Spanish film industry sucks!.

C'mon now, what about Torrentes? :lol: [/quote]

[scoone]

BTW the Spanish film industry sucks!.

C'mon now, what about Torrentes? :lol: [/quote]

OK rofl

[Imshi-Yallah]

Some of the great armchair heroes should take note that Zapatero has ruled out withdrawing Spanish troops from Afghanistan and is pushing on a UN security council resolution to allow Spanish troops a madate to remain in Iraq.
I thought that he really dropped the ball when he anounced the withdrawal plan, but now that the information he had when he made his announcement is available its clear that there was no element of appeasement.
The AQ affiliates behind the madrid bombing have demanded the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, support for several friendly states and swore to avenge the destruction of the Islamic kingdom of Andalus in 1492.
In that light it becomes pretty clear that he knew withdrawing from Iraq wasn't going to change a thing.

[xjym2002]

BTW the Spanish film industry sucks!.

C'mon now, what about Torrentes? :lol:

"¡Átame!", "Teta y la luna, La" and "Lucía y el sexo" are spanish movies I can found here. Of course plus oscar winner "Todo sobre mi madre".

It is off topic though.

[MARINO]

http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/News/March_2004/BMR-600_Picture_Spain_02.jpg

[scoone]

http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/News/March_2004/BMR-600_Picture_Spain_02.jpg

At the rear of the vehicle, that's a c-90 , right?

[Parzival]

Nice pics!
What kind of G36 version does the spanish army use?

[Lobo]

Spanish Army uses G-36E. Compared to the Bundeswehr version it hasn't the red dot sight, and the optical sight is 1,5X instead 3x. Spanish marines uses a 3x sight.

[AVZ]

didn't know that the spanish marines use the G36 with 3x sight.
How many of these boys do you have??? (I mean marines)

[grabie_bis]

Spanish Army uses 1,5x and 3x versions of the G36. besides Parachutist and Legion Brigades have already been issued with AG-G36 grenade launchers.

[scoone]

There is a large Brigade in the south, it's trained as an expeditionary force, the Brimar, it's units are:

HQ Battalion
1st Landing Battalion
2nd Landing Battalion
3rd Mechanized Battalion
Special forces Unit (UOE)
Special Weapons Unit
Landing Artillery Group
GASC ( Medical,Logistics,Transport,...)

We also have what we call the "Security and Protection Units", These units are deployed to protect bases.The unit which provides secuity to the Rota Naval Base is one of the best trained.They all have the same structure:
1 Police Coy
2 HQ Coys
1 Music Coy
1 Logistic Group

And there is a group of Marines attached to the Royal Guard as well as Specific Units for our Carrier and Frigates

[MARINO]

http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/News/March_2004/BMR-600_Picture_Spain_02.jpg

At the rear of the vehicle, that's a c-90 , right?

Right C-90 they have used them in recent fights in Nayaf and Diwaniyah, and they are really reliable.