First cracks appear as Iraq's Speaker threatens to quit

[Secret Squirrel]

IRAQ'S Speaker of Parliament is considering stepping down because of bitter enmity from Kurdish and Shiite political blocs, revealing the first major crack in Iraq's fragile unity Government since it was formed nearly three months ago.

The Speaker, Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, is the third-ranking official in Iraq and a conservative Sunni Arab. Shiite and Kurdish legislators have banded together to try to push him out, mainly because he is considered too radical.

Since taking office in late May, Mr Mashhadani has publicly praised the Sunni insurgency, called the Americans "butchers" and denounced the idea of carving up Iraq into autonomous regions, which the Kurds and some Shiites strongly support.

"Maybe now is the best time for me to withdraw," Mr Mashhadani said. "My hand won't be stained as they want it to be stained."

The replacement of Mr Mashhadani would represent the first upheaval in the new Shiite-led Government since it was installed on May 20. In the weeks since, Iraqis have become disillusioned with their leaders as sectarian violence has soared and basic services like electricity and water continue to lag.

The executive offices and the 275-seat Parliament are split mostly among the major Shiite, Sunni Arab and Kurdish political blocs.

American military spokesman Major-General William Caldwell said on Monday that some Shiite militias were receiving weapons from individuals or groups in Iran and undergoing training there. It was unclear whether the Iranian Government was directly involved, he said.

"We do know that weapons have been provided and IED technology been made available to these extremist elements," General Caldwell said, using the military's acronym for improvised explosive devices, or homemade bombs.

General Caldwell said 57 Iraqis in southern Baghdad were killed on Sunday in a gas main explosion, not by bombs, mortars or rockets, as Iraqi security officials had reported.

American ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said on Friday that Iran had been encouraging small Shiite militias to attack the American-led forces in retaliation for American backing of Israel's military campaign against Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Iran, governed by Shiites, supports Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite militia.

The Iraqi Parliament's bylaws provide that the Speaker can be replaced if an absolute majority of members — 138 — approve of the ouster. The Parliament is in recess for August, but a Kurdish legislator, Mahmoud Othman, said a special session might be called to vote on Mr Mashhadani.

The move to replace Mr Mashhadani could infuriate some Sunni Arabs in the Government. But several legislators said the main Sunni Arab bloc, the Iraqi Consensus Front, would be allowed to retain the Speaker position, provided it found an acceptable replacement.

Mr Mashhadani said he would stay in Parliament even if forced to step down as Speaker.

One member of the bloc, Salim Abdullah, said some Sunni legislators were open to nominating another Speaker. "This is the time when we need someone to be more active and more acceptable to the political blocs," he said.

link (http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/first-cracks-appear-as-iraqs-speaker-threatens-to-quit/2006/08/15/1155407810027.html)
................

[WarriorMonk]

we've got to try the division of Iraq thing...

[caridon]

we've got to try the division of Iraq thing...

you cant.
any division of iraq would mean a kurdistan (in reality if not name)
turkey would not allow that and would invade in a heartbeat
(citing the same rationale the US used)

you would have a even bigger mess on your hands then.

/C

[ElHombre]

we've got to try the division of Iraq thing...

it looks likely to happen whether we try it or not.

keeerist, what a mess... :-(

[pistol]

Stay the course...stay the course...stay the course...no wait..

Adapt to win...adapt to win...adapt to win...adapt to win...adapt to win..

[Hsgi2005]

While this is certainly a bad time for political disunity in Iraq, as far as I can tell, it is common for such coalition governments to be fragile even in advanced European democracies such as Italy.

[Con-man]

Right... people threatening to quit government happens quite often in alot of countries, its only gaining international attention because its happening in Iraq.

[budgie]

My only question is, how long did you expect it to last?

[Argyll]

you cant.
any division of iraq would mean a kurdistan (in reality if not name)
turkey would not allow that and would invade in a heartbeat
(citing the same rationale the US used)

you would have a even bigger mess on your hands then.

/C

America and the MNF wouldn't allow an Invasion to happen,The Kurds have had 12 years to prepare, Turkey would suffer a hell of a lot more than what Israel has just suffered....

Kurdistan is becoming more than a pipe dream, it's becoming a reality, I said all along the Kurds in Northern Iraq will have their own country in 5 years, I still stand by this.

The MNF Need the Kurds, if the Kurds turn against the Americans then you had better be prepared for seeing a lot more MNF body bags flying home!
Unlike the Sunni Insurgents the Kurds will take the fight to you, and they'll stand their ground, and will not cut and run like most of the insurgency when they have return fire aimed at them, they're highly trained in Guerilla warfare.......

[PeterG]

The only solution must be to put Saddam back in power - provided he PROMISE to behave this time.

[Greek soldier]

The only solution must be to put Saddam back in power - provided he PROMISE to behave this time.

¿¿¿¿WHAT?????

[Argyll]

Sarcasm mate

[Firetxmi]

Kurdistan is becoming more than a pipe dream, it's becoming a reality, I said all along the Kurds in Northern Iraq will have their own country in 5 years, I still stand by this.


When can we start wagering on how long it will be until we are in "Kurdistan?"

Do we not learn anything? Look what happens when we start dividing countries, it really does not have the desired affect.

[Greek soldier]

Sarcasm mate

OK, sorry:)


Do we not learn anything? Look what happens when we start dividing countries, it really does not have the desired affect.

Actually Iraq since day 1 was divided between the Shiite, Sunni and the Kurds.

Saddam was actually the Tito of the Middle East. He was keeping Iraq unified under totalitarian control. What was Tito doing in Yugoslavia.

[Firetxmi]

Actually Iraq since day 1 was divided between the Shiite, Sunni and the Kurds.

Saddam was actually the Tito of the Middle East. He was keeping Iraq unified under totalitarian control. What was Tito doing in Yugoslavia.

Yes, it has been split, but when we start drawing and enforcing political lines and borders is when the problems seem to arise...

[XShipRider]

is considering stepping down because of bitter enmity from Kurdish and Shiite political blocs

Mr Mashhadani said he would stay in Parliament even if forced to step down as Speaker.

Looks to me like he's willing to sacrifice his position to keep the "fragile"
[sic] government intact. That's taking one for the team if I ever saw
it.

[Argyll]

When can we start wagering on how long it will be until we are in "Kurdistan?"

Do we not learn anything? Look what happens when we start dividing countries, it really does not have the desired affect.

We're already there!!

[Firetxmi]

We're already there!!

True... I guess that just means we'll never be able to leave!

[Laworkerbee]

Do we not learn anything? Look what happens when we start dividing countries, it really does not have the desired affect.

Great Britain undertook a similar process of regime change and territorial reorganization in the same region of the world. In the thick of world conflict, with its strategic interests in the balance, the British had to begin planning for the aftermath of the World War that permitted the redrawing of borders and the creation of new political entities. One year after the beginning of World War I, preparations for a new strategic order in the Middle East were already underway. For the Allies—Britain, France, and Russia—the task was different from that of the United States today. Yet unlike the Coalition forces that in 2003 proclaimed the territorial integrity of Iraq, the British began from scratch: until 1921, the country of Iraq did not exist. All of these countries\borders cobbled together by European powers are artificial.

Why not let the cards fall where they may and let these bad borders drawn by Europeans die?

[Firetxmi]

Why not let the cards fall where they may and let these bad borders drawn by Europeans die?

Not a bad idea.....

[remo williams]

We're already there!!

you're not kidding about that. About two weeks ago I saw commercials pitching for people to come to northern Iraq. there's aweb site but I cannot remember it at present.I Thought I was seeing things, but they ran it on the msnbc stream I get at work for about two weeks albiet sporadically.


Originally Posted by Laworkerbee http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1855478#post1855478)

Why not let the cards fall where they may and let these bad borders drawn by Europeans die?

Sounds good. It'd really be a new middle east, however as of late it seems everyone's got some kind of angle. It's probably screw up alot of peoples interests in the region, though I could be wrong. I don't see it happening.

[Laworkerbee]

Not a bad idea.....

Thanks I was afraid I was sounding like I was trying to make some anti-Euro rant.

[khukuri]

America and the MNF wouldn't allow an Invasion to happen,The Kurds have had 12 years to prepare, Turkey would suffer a hell of a lot more than what Israel has just suffered....

Kurdistan is becoming more than a pipe dream, it's becoming a reality, I said all along the Kurds in Northern Iraq will have their own country in 5 years, I still stand by this.

The MNF Need the Kurds, if the Kurds turn against the Americans then you had better be prepared for seeing a lot more MNF body bags flying home!
Unlike the Sunni Insurgents the Kurds will take the fight to you, and they'll stand their ground, and will not cut and run like most of the insurgency when they have return fire aimed at them, they're highly trained in Guerilla warfare.......

but do you think the turks are as sensitive about casualties as israelis?

[khukuri]

Great Britain undertook a similar process of regime change and territorial reorganization in the same region of the world. In the thick of world conflict, with its strategic interests in the balance, the British had to begin planning for the aftermath of the World War that permitted the redrawing of borders and the creation of new political entities. One year after the beginning of World War I, preparations for a new strategic order in the Middle East were already underway. For the Allies—Britain, France, and Russia—the task was different from that of the United States today. Yet unlike the Coalition forces that in 2003 proclaimed the territorial integrity of Iraq, the British began from scratch: until 1921, the country of Iraq did not exist. All of these countries\borders cobbled together by European powers are artificial.

Why not let the cards fall where they may and let these bad borders drawn by Europeans die?

not really, they based this on the ottoman empires which itself based it on something. The brits only fine tuned , Conquer and divine, a way for imperialistic britian to keep theyre influence. No national entity means some ethnicity needs the support of asuperpower in order to still be in power. When that group failes theyre masters youjust go to the desperate other group, like with the shias in iraq:)

[caridon]

America and the MNF wouldn't allow an Invasion to happen,The Kurds have had 12 years to prepare, Turkey would suffer a hell of a lot more than what Israel has just suffered....

Kurdistan is becoming more than a pipe dream, it's becoming a reality, I said all along the Kurds in Northern Iraq will have their own country in 5 years, I still stand by this.

The MNF Need the Kurds, if the Kurds turn against the Americans then you had better be prepared for seeing a lot more MNF body bags flying home!
Unlike the Sunni Insurgents the Kurds will take the fight to you, and they'll stand their ground, and will not cut and run like most of the insurgency when they have return fire aimed at them, they're highly trained in Guerilla warfare.......

OK if the kurds get their own land out of northern iraq, What are your estimate about the rest of "kurdistan" ? will we se a lot of kurdish guerilla fighting in iran and turkey ?

and btw MNF ??

/C

[Laworkerbee]

and btw MNF ??

Multi-National-Forces I do believe

[caridon]

Great Britain undertook a similar process of regime change and territorial reorganization in the same region of the world. In the thick of world conflict, with its strategic interests in the balance, the British had to begin planning for the aftermath of the World War that permitted the redrawing of borders and the creation of new political entities. One year after the beginning of World War I, preparations for a new strategic order in the Middle East were already underway. For the Allies—Britain, France, and Russia—the task was different from that of the United States today. Yet unlike the Coalition forces that in 2003 proclaimed the territorial integrity of Iraq, the British began from scratch: until 1921, the country of Iraq did not exist. All of these countries\borders cobbled together by European powers are artificial.

Why not let the cards fall where they may and let these bad borders drawn by Europeans die?

The thing is that we would prefere the borders be redrawn with a minimum of bloodshed. As it has a tendency to fester for a few thousands of years.

This means geting involved, (but not nececarely invading places)
/C

[Laworkerbee]

The thing is that we would prefere the borders be redrawn with a minimum of bloodshed. As it has a tendency to fester for a few thousands of years.

This means geting involved, (but not nececarely invading places)
/C

Well thats ideal, however I can't think of too many instances in history where borders were either created or redrawn without bloodshed.

[C.MAXIMUS]

OK if the kurds get their own land out of northern iraq, What are your estimate about the rest of "kurdistan" ? will we se a lot of kurdish guerilla fighting in iran and turkey ?

and btw MNF ??

/C

I think a set up could aranged to move turkish kurds into iraq ... big big problem ...