China moves to crush Dalai Lama supporters

[ed316]

China moves to crush Dalai

Jane Macartney, Beijing
August 16, 2006

CHINA'S new top official in Tibet has embarked on a fierce campaign to crush loyalty to the exiled Dalai Lama and to extinguish religious beliefs among government officials.


Zhang Qingli, 55, who was appointed Communist Party secretary of the Tibetan Autonomous Region in May, has moved swiftly to tighten his grip over this deeply Buddhist region. An ally of Chinese President Hu Jintao, Mr Zhang was previously head of the paramilitary Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps in that mainly Muslim western region, overseeing migration of ethnic Han Chinese as well as border security.
Mr Zhang's drive to stamp out allegiance to the Dalai Lama, who fled to India during an anti-Chinese uprising in 1959, has adopted a tone rarely seen since the mid-1990s.
At the time, Beijing launched a barrage of angry rhetoric against the region's god-king and banned his photograph after he enraged China by unilaterally announcing the discovery of the reincarnation of Tibet's second holiest monk, the Panchen Lama.
In May, Mr Zhang told senior party officials in the region that they were engaged in a "fight to the death" against the Dalai Lama.
Since then, he has implemented several new policies to try to erode the influence of the 71-year-old monk, who China's rulers believe is waging a covert campaign to win independence for his Himalayan homeland.
Ethnic Tibetan civil servants of all ranks, from the lowliest of government employees to senior officials, have been banned from attending any religious ceremony or from entering a temple or monastery.
Patriotic education campaigns in the monasteries that have been in the vanguard of anti-Chinese protests have been expanded. Ethnic Tibetan officials in Lhasa and surrounding rural counties have been required to write criticisms of the Dalai Lama.
Senior civil servants must produce 10,000-word essays. Those in junior posts need only write 5000-character condemnations. Even retired officials are not exempt.
Mr Zhang said last week: "The Dalai Lama used to be an acknowledged religious leader, which is an undoubted fact, but what he has done makes him unworthy of the title." His tone echoed that of a recent diatribe carried in the Chinese and Tibetan editions of the Tibet Daily that accused the Dalai Lama of collaborating with the US Central Intelligence Agency.
The denunciations cast into doubt secretive negotiations between envoys of the Dalai Lama and Beijing over his possible return to Tibet. The talks resumed in 2002 but have made scant progress.
The Times

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20144688-2703,00.html

[gaijinsamurai]

Interesting. What the Chinese have done to Tibet is shameful.
From what I've read, the Dalai Lama is still highly revered throughout Tibet, despite China's best efforts to make him out to be a puppet of the West.
Thanks for the post, ed316.

[ViktorNavorski]

Interesting. What the Chinese have done to Tibet is shameful.
From what I've read, the Dalai Lama is still highly revered throughout Tibet, despite China's best efforts to make him out to be a puppet of the West.
Thanks for the post, ed316.2x...At the rate of immigration, there won't be much of a Tibet in several more years.

[LaoSexMachine]

There's more Chinese in Tibet then Tibetans. Truly sad.

[Canuck Farrier]

Buddhists are the most laid back people they have clear heads and positive outlook, maybe the chinese could learn something from the Budhism in the region instead of crushing it.

[remo williams]

double post...delete as necessary thx.

[remo williams]

Had a discussion last week on here with someone who claimed China was "tolerant" towards religion. Some tolerance. Anyway it sticks out that this relatively peaceful religion is being forced into extinction, but you don't see them suiciding themselves unlike a certain Religious extremist segment are. I also can't help but find it remarkable that China dosen't have the level of problems with islamic extremists unlike the west.

[Ayura]

I honestly don't buy into the claim that 'buddhist' are the most peaceful and cause no harm. They are still human, thus they do, like all human beings. By no means, I'm not saying they are not (Buddhism strictly teachers Non-Violence) but don't get the wrong impression that certain 'Buddhist' are not violent etc.

http://hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/burma-bck4.htm


(PS I'm not trying to hold anything against Buddhist/Buddhism just for the record.)

[remo williams]

I honestly don't buy into the claim that 'buddhist' are the most peaceful and cause no harm. They are still human, thus they do, like all human beings. By no means, I'm not saying they are not (Buddhism strictly teachers Non-Violence) but don't get the wrong impression that certain 'Buddhist' are not violent etc.

http://hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/burma-bck4.htm


(PS I'm not trying to hold anything against Buddhist/Buddhism just for the record.)

I'm sure you don't. Having said that, imho your article is cited out of context. It relates to the ongoing conflict between Muslims and Buddhists and retaliation for violent acts committed. It'd be interesting who initiated the conflict in the first place. The thread was in reference to the crack down and ongoing efforts by the gov't of the country these buddhists live in to force them into extinction. Two different things at the core. One ongoing conflict,the other a movement sanctioned by gov't. To say Buddhism isn't peaceful, the arguement could be made extremist Islam is equally as ****e to violence. Pots and kettles..

[Ayura]

I'm sure you don't. Having said that, imho your article is cited out of context. It relates to the ongoing conflict between Muslims and Buddhists and retaliation for violent acts committed. It'd be interesting who initiated the conflict in the first place. The thread was in reference to the crack down and ongoing efforts by the gov't of the country these buddhists live in to force them into extinction. Two different things at the core. One ongoing conflict,the other a movement sanctioned by gov't. To say Buddhism isn't peaceful, the arguement could be made extremist Islam is equally as ****e to violence. Pots and kettles..

My mistake...

[Hollis]

Interesting. What the Chinese have done to Tibet is shameful.
From what I've read, the Dalai Lama is still highly revered throughout Tibet, despite China's best efforts to make him out to be a puppet of the West.
Thanks for the post, ed316.


Same here, and again thank you Ed.............

[LaoSexMachine]

I honestly don't buy into the claim that 'buddhist' are the most peaceful and cause no harm. They are still human, thus they do, like all human beings. By no means, I'm not saying they are not (Buddhism strictly teachers Non-Violence) but don't get the wrong impression that certain 'Buddhist' are not violent etc.

http://hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/burma-bck4.htm


(PS I'm not trying to hold anything against Buddhist/Buddhism just for the record.)


Our doctrine is not base on believers and non believers. We RESPECT other's view. We also don't come up with "Our Buddhist Brother's are dying, WAR!!!". We don't believe in a supreme being. We believe that no one knows is there a God or some benevolent being. People who advocate violence are shuned. Almost all Buddhist I know and talk to don't consider Shaolin monks Buddhist.

PS. We are TOLD AND TAUGHT not to have BLIND FAITH. For a westerner to understand Buddhist they have to not believe in a benevolent and supreme being. If you can't wrap your head around that, you'll never understand.


From the link


The U.S. State Department's Annual Report for International Religious Freedom issued in October, 2001, estimates that ten Muslims and ten Buddhists were killed, and notes "...there were credible reports that the monks that appeared to be inciting at least some of the violence were USDA or military personnel dressed as monks

USDA =Burmese military junta-sponsored Union Solidarity and Development Association (USDA).

Ayura, lets put it in context.

[Con-man]

Isn't Islam illegal in China? Where is the muslim outrage about that? Or have I missed out on alot?

[Avary]

Anyway it sticks out that this relatively peaceful religion is being forced into extinction, but you don't see them suiciding themselves unlike a certain Religious extremist segment are.

Which is why the UNSC doesn't care at all.

If only the Dalai-Lama sent cohorts of suicide bombers in Tel-Aviv, the world would support his struggle.

But that stupid asshat prays for his enemies instead of blaming the Jews. :roll:

[Avary]

Isn't Islam illegal in China? Where is the muslim outrage about that? Or have I missed out on alot?

Not officially, but they have to walk in line.

[Kaapeli]

I remember the buddhist suicide monks from South Vietnam that protested the actions against buddhism by the government.
They poured gasoline onto themselves, light a match and just sat in the middle of the street burning to death quietly. Didn't harm anyone else though.

[Jani.R]

Isn't Islam illegal in China? Where is the muslim outrage about that? Or have I missed out on alot?

Several million islamists in China claim otherwise.

[gaijinsamurai]

When I lived in Hokkaido (Japan's northern island), I had some friends who were "Turkic" Chinese. They were non-Han Muslims, from China's western provinces. They told me they were able to practive their religion, as long as they kept a low profile and didn't act like Muslim versions of Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson.
But yes, Buddhism is a very tolerant, easy-going religion, in my opinion. Although I am not religious, when i lived in Korea one of my favorite places to visit was a rural Buddhist temple. I would have tea with the head monk and we would share our stories of adventure. Not once did he ever try to convert me.
All the "Zen" stuff does not appeal to me, nor do i even try to understand it, but a lot of it makes sense.

[HVU]

Interesting. What the Chinese have done to Tibet is shameful.
From what I've read, the Dalai Lama is still highly revered throughout Tibet, despite China's best efforts to make him out to be a puppet of the West.
Thanks for the post, ed316.

Did you know that the Dalai Lama does NOT support Tibetan independence?

Did you know that most Tibetans do not wish to break out?

Did you know that the killings and mistreated was not unique to Tibetans, but also to Han Chinese and other minorities during the Cultural revolution?
Actually, there were Tibetan red guards who did it on their on people too.

"Surprisingly", all these critics come from Westerners or foreigners who pity some Tibetan extremists living in the West. Furthermore without China, Tibet is economically insolvent. Forget that paradise on earth country, it wasn't. China had influence and control before the 1950's, 200 years before that in Qing dynasty.

And much more.

HVU, over and out.

[Durandal]

Furthermore without China, Tibet is economically insolvent.

Well, that's a load of crap since it lays between to economic powerhouses and Nepal and Pakistan. Tibet would have no problems economically coexisting.

China brought communal farms...oh boy. There's an economic bang! :roll:


Forget that paradise on earth country, it wasn't.

Some people like mountains and snow...with green valleys here and there. To each their own.


China had influence and control before the 1950's, 200 years before that in Qing dynasty.

The problem is that A) The Chinese got their asses kicked out of there in 1913 and remained out till 1950/51 and B) Great Britain and the United States never recognized Tibet as anything more than a semi-independent region under China's influence.

Even AFTER the invasion the PRC let the Tibetans pretty much lead a normal life for a several years...that ended quickly though.

I agree that Tibet is sort of the wailing cry of the left in the United States but at the same time it IS a very good example of PRC barbarity in regards to civil rights, propaganda, and general communist BS.

[gaijinsamurai]

In recent years, the Dalai Lama has advocated for greater autonomy, rather than full independence, for Tibetans because he knows that's probably the best his people can ever hope to get. That doesn't mean he would turn down independence for Tibet if it was a real possibility.
As far as most Tibetans not wanting to "break out", how do you know this? It isn't like the people there can actually voice their opinions. Did you see some poll commisioned by the Chinese government, which also stated they are happy to have had their land overrun by Chinese, their culture all but disappear, and their traditional leader forced into exile?
Yes, I am fully aware of the fact that Han Chinese, as well as just about everybody in China, suffered at the hands of the Chinese government and Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution and at other periods since China's invasion and illegal annexation of Tibet. What's your point? Does that make the Tibetans' claims less credible? That's like saying that Jewish Poles have less of a right to complain about the Holocaust, because the Nazis murdered German Jews too.

[ed316]

Did you know that the Dalai Lama does NOT support Tibetan independence?

Did you know that most Tibetans do not wish to break out?

Did you know that the killings and mistreated was not unique to Tibetans, but also to Han Chinese and other minorities during the Cultural revolution?
Actually, there were Tibetan red guards who did it on their on people too.

"Surprisingly", all these critics come from Westerners or foreigners who pity some Tibetan extremists living in the West. Furthermore without China, Tibet is economically insolvent. Forget that paradise on earth country, it wasn't. China had influence and control before the 1950's, 200 years before that in Qing dynasty.

And much more.

HVU, over and out.

He supports autonomy. So tell me what is paradise, Mao?

[Henry's Fork]

As backward and caste as pre-second Chinese invasion Tibet was. No body ever starved to death and the government didnt uproot you and your family thousands of miles away into the boondocks of China or kill you because you refused to be moved.

Lhasa is now full of Chinese brothels and homeless Tibetans begging in the streets. Let alone the fact that heroin has now reared its ugly head there.

Good job China, you are also doing quite well in Nepal as well. Keep up the good work.

[remo williams]

My mistake...
No problemp-) .

[remo williams]

Which is why the UNSC doesn't care at all.

If only the Dalai-Lama sent cohorts of suicide bombers in Tel-Aviv, the world would support his struggle.

But that stupid asshat prays for his enemies instead of blaming the Jews. :roll:

True pure, for lack of a better term, practicing Catholics would do the same. Meet violence w/non violence. It is a shame what's happening in any sense.

[Kaapeli]

As backward and caste as pre-second Chinese invasion Tibet was. No body ever starved to death and the government didnt uproot you and your family thousands of miles away into the boondocks of China or kill you because you refused to be moved.

That's right. Majority of the people were land slaves that could be sold or bought by their masters. They were not allowed to move from the farms owned by their feudal lords (often part of the priesthood, like lamas) even if they wanted to and didn't have much other rights either.

Not to say Tibet is a happy place now but it most certainly wasn't before China invaded in 1950 either.

[khukuri]

I honestly don't buy into the claim that 'buddhist' are the most peaceful and cause no harm. They are still human, thus they do, like all human beings. By no means, I'm not saying they are not (Buddhism strictly teachers Non-Violence) but don't get the wrong impression that certain 'Buddhist' are not violent etc.



(PS I'm not trying to hold anything against Buddhist/Buddhism just for the record.)


alot hippie dippies in europ have got that impression which is semi-ridicilious.

Actually buddist have had emperors who slaughtered people (ashoka), they tried to stop the chinese militarily but failed and then went pacifist. The monks during 18-1900 century in tibet werent all that popular either...


Im not bashing buddhist, not at all, and I dont support what china is doing to
tibet and lhasa. But some of the views people have in the west about tibetans dalai lamas etc is ridicilous...

[gaijinsamurai]

Well, I never really jumped on the "Free Tibet" bandwagon, but it doesn't take someone like Richard Gere or Robert Thurman to tell me that it is not okay for big countries to invade and annex smaller ones. (Wasn't Gulf War 1 over something like that?)
But yeah, it is usually Western liberals who think Buddhists are all tofu-eating wussies.
Two of Japan's greatest (and most ruthless) Samurai warriors, Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin, were also ordained Buddhist priests.

[Ordie]

Tibet traditionally acted as a buffer between China and India.

[Canuck Farrier]

Budhists are peaceful BUT they believe it is necessary for people to defend themselves.Budhism is more of a practice than religion its about having control of your mind,keeping a clear head and no drip of negativity which most people get sucked into.

[LaoSexMachine]

alot hippie dippies in europ have got that impression which is semi-ridicilious.

Actually buddist have had emperors who slaughtered people (ashoka), they tried to stop the chinese militarily but failed and then went pacifist. The monks during 18-1900 century in tibet werent all that popular either...


Im not bashing buddhist, not at all, and I dont support what china is doing to
tibet and lhasa. But some of the views people have in the west about tibetans dalai lamas etc is ridicilous...

Ashoka converted to Buddism after his conquest.

Violence should only be use to protect. Buddhist are humans, ****e to violence which means they aren't really practicing Buddhist. Being an Buddhist is not like being a Muslim. We don't have the God to human relationship. There is no submission. YOU choose your own path. They cease to be Buddhist if they fight in/for the name of Buddhism. I don't know if there was ever a war fought in the name of Buddhism. If there is I not aware of it. If any one commit murder in the name of Buddhism they would be renounce with a quickness. Look at the Bamiyan Buddhas. How many Buddhist did you see protesting and calling for blood of Muslims?

Also it goes like this. American first then Buddhist not the other way around like some other religion.

[C.MAXIMUS]

I think we will fight the Chinese in the future ... if they do not implode from within ...
I get angry to see all the "made in China" products, I think we could be supporting other developing countries with our business. p-)

[LaoSexMachine]

How many countries have the resources and man power like China. I don't like there government but the Iron fist keeps people in line. How many democratic country can even have a project like the Three Gorge Dam? There would be protest and delays lasting years if not decade.

[Ordie]

I think we will fight the Chinese in the future ... if they do not implode from within ...
I get angry to see all the "made in China" products, I think we could be supporting other developing countries with our business. p-)

For better or worst, China is economically tied with the US and vice versa. They buy the T-bills to keep interest rates low so that Americans could afford to buy new homes.

We have enough enemies, why do we need another in China? Ask youself what has China done to the US that would cause a war?

[Popdivtweet]

i had a chance to converse with some young professionals and some students from Shanghai some time ago, and the majority of them where downright uncomfortable with what the PRC goverment has done to Tibet.
too bad they won't/can't pressure the comunist party to cut the crap and lay off Tibet.

[Durandal]

I think we will fight the Chinese in the future ... if they do not implode from within ...
I get angry to see all the "made in China" products, I think we could be supporting other developing countries with our business. p-)

Silliness. CHina and the U.S. are simply tied to close at the hip. A war benefits neither one of us. I mean why do you "think" we are going to fight? Its absurd in this day and age. Regardless of who started the war no one wold recover for a VERY long time. The economic realities alone for such a war/conflict would be horrendous...

If you get angry with products made in China buy the more expensive stuff made here in the United States or in you case I guess, the U.K.. No one is to blame for China's produced goods except the people that buy those goods.

[Durandal]

How many countries have the resources and man power like China. I don't like there government but the Iron fist keeps people in line. How many democratic country can even have a project like the Three Gorge Dam? There would be protest and delays lasting years if not decade.

I do not think ANY democratic country would have built it at all. The social-economic impact as well as environmental trauma as a result of the damn would be to much...

Remember, not including the hundreds or even thousands of small towns that were relocated, hundreds of historical sights were lost and several cities the size of Cincinnati or larger were relocated...cities...the entire infrastructure, simply moved.

[lzdbb]

Interesting. What the Chinese have done to Tibet is shameful.
From what I've read, the Dalai Lama is still highly revered throughout Tibet, despite China's best efforts to make him out to be a puppet of the West.
Thanks for the post, ed316.

What have you read? Are you sure what you have read is ture? You can't！

[lzdbb]

I think we will fight the Chinese in the future ... if they do not implode from within ...
I get angry to see all the "made in China" products, I think we could be supporting other developing countries with our business. p-)

A racialist,not a good cosmopolite.

[lzdbb]

but you don't see them suiciding themselves unlike a certain Religious extremist segment are. I also can't help but find it remarkable that China dosen't have the level of problems with islamic extremists unlike the west.

In the 1990s, there were many such things in Tibet. Many common individuals were killed by the supporters of DaLai.

[Durandal]

A racialist,not a good cosmopolite.

Not at all. He could have no problem buying Taiwanese stuff. Immigrants to Taiwan are no different, racially than mainland Chinese.

Most people have a problem with China because the nation is not FREE, socially and politically and because the government deliberately devalues its currency to entice companies to have their products built there while at the same time restricting manufactured and farm goods from other nations.

There are good reasons not to be happy with China and just because someone is does not mean the are a racist or worldly.

[gaijinsamurai]

Izdbb: If you are asking me what I read, it was Paul Thoroux's accounts of his time in Lhasa. Also, I my ex-wife spent time in Tibet, and I also knew a Tibetan in college. Of course, that doesn't make me an expert on the area, but not once have I heard from someone (i would take seriously) that the Chinese occupation has been good for Tibetans.
Of course, I don't blame the Chinese people for what is happening. They do not live in a democratic society, and therefore cannot control the actions of their government. I just wish they would quit acting so self-righteous about what the Japanese did 60+ years ago, when their current government is guilty of crimes which are just as bad or worse.