German train bombs "likely were terrorist attack"

[Macs.]

German train bombs "likely were terrorist attack"

BERLIN (*******) - An investigation launched after two bombs were found in the German cities of Dortmund and Koblenz late last month is increasingly pointing to a terrorist link, a German newspaper reported on Thursday.

The daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung quoted unidentified "high-level security experts" as saying there was a "strong probability" that the bombs, hidden in luggage found on trains at the cities' stations, were part of a terrorist plot.

Police had also identified a man in video surveillance footage who left behind at least one of the suitcases but had no information about his background or activities, the paper reported in a preview of its Friday edition.

German federal prosecutors said earlier this month that they were investigating possible terrorist links to the plot.



Citing unidentified security sources, the Sueddeutsche said evidence had come to light that another suspect was involved and that the two devices were meant to be exploded simultaneously.

"Their power was so great that they would have created explosions of the size of the subway attacks in London in the summer of 2005," the paper quoted an unidentified high-ranking official responsible for security as saying.

British Islamist suicide bombers killed 52 people in July last year when they detonated bombs on London trains and a bus.


http://today.*******.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-08-17T185948Z_01_L17107653_RTRUKOC_0_UK-SECURITY-GERMANY-BOMBS.xml&archived=False

[Thunder]

Well, I doubt it anyone would put explosives on a train without having plans for a terrorist attack. Good thing they prevented another 7/7 from happening.

[Jarhead]

I hope that such a **** never happens in Germany. When it happens I have a few more good reasons to serve longer in the Bundeswehr.
God bless Germany and all other countrys who are living the values of peace and freedom

Jarhead

[toki]

Well, I doubt it anyone would put explosives on a train without having plans for a terrorist attack. Good thing they prevented another 7/7 from happening.

Well there was a chance that they could be criminals. (Like some guy 10 years ago that attacked the rail system here for ransome). Or some copycats or psychos.

Terrorism is another quality. It was maybe pretty obvious, but you never know!

[Weasel]

I hope that such a **** never happens in Germany. When it happens I have a few more good reasons to serve longer in the Bundeswehr.
God bless Germany and all other countrys who are living the values of peace and freedom

Jarhead

Where is the connection between serving in german army and such (planned) terror act?

[Jarhead]

Defending my country in every part of the world, thats the conection. I´ll serve to defend freedom and peace.

Jarhead

[CruddyLeper]

Well, I doubt it anyone would put explosives on a train without having plans for a terrorist attack. Good thing they prevented another 7/7 from happening.

Unlikely... but I suggest you look into false flag and deception operations.

Making the bag traceable to Beiruit is what makes me a little suspicious... like leaving a trail of breadcrumbs up to a birdtrap.

WTF would a terrorist who wants to survive and remain uncaught use his OWN bag with his OWN DNA traces on it?

They're not dumb, they're not ignorant.

[Switek]

Jarhead,

There is no one safe western nation. No state is going to preserve terrorist attack in 100%. There is no oasis of peace. It's ilusion. Sorry but that's the truth...

Why do attack Germans?. Becouse no one is expected, becouse of shock, powerful media and many,many other reasons about BND (may be?) knows

[Jarhead]

Switek, I know what you mean. The times of total peace and safeness has gone but everyone can do something that its getting better. And I want to do it on that way which makes for me more sense.

Jarhead

[Switek]

Jarhead

I undrestand you, everyone can put his brick to the wall of safety. It's obvious... We are doing it here on MP on our own way, sharing experiences, knowledge etc...

Probability of being a casuality of terrorist attack is few thousand less than tomorrow I will have car accident, for example, so there possibilty to live as usual... p-)

[Weasel]

Defending my country in every part of the world, thats the conection. I´ll serve to defend freedom and peace.

Jarhead

When I was younger and naive I thought so, too. (no offense intended)

Step-by-step I lost this ideology. :)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

The Germans find two unexploded bombs hidden in luggage in trains...and the Germans think that maybe a terror attack was planned? Good lord, talk about living in denial.

[toki]

The Germans find two unexploded bombs hidden in luggage in trains...and the Germans think that maybe a terror attack was planned? Good lord, talk about living in denial.
You got that wrong. They found the bombs, investigated and now published the results. Nothing more, nothing less. Attacks on the railroad system are not new and in some cases in the past they were of a criminal nature. The infamous blackmailer "Dagobert" for example.

There was for example a guy a few years back who put a some very powerful nail bombs on a tram station here in my city, they exploded and many people were injured. bombers can still(!) have different motivations. It turned out to be some Mafia thing. Denial is one thing, investigating is another. There was no "We think it could be XYZ" there was "OK we found out it had a terrorist motive". The bag with arabic symbols in the bag was suspicious for me in the beginning. Too obvious? Misleading?. Let's face it, it could be neo-nazi groups, who want to stir up hate. Hyphothetic - not completely unlikely, there are groups like that also. Just as an example. Anyway first of all you have to investigate and then publish it. You make it sound naive, when the authorities come out with this result 2 weeks(!) after they found the bombs.

Edit: Of course, nazi group would be considered "terror group", too. I know, but there are also psycho criminals around. We had that in the past.

[tsuri]

Doubtfully Neo Nazis. The guys in the video don´t look like em.
I also rule out professional terrorists like the RAF or AQ. Those types don´t make bombs that don´t explode.

Probably two amateurs who wanted to direct attention to the lebanon campaign or something.

[toki]

Doubtfully Neo Nazis. The guys in the video don´t look like em.
I also rule out professional terrorists like the RAF or AQ. Those types don´t make bombs that don´t explode.

Probably two amateurs who wanted to direct attention to the lebanon campaign or something.

I didn't say they were neo-nazis. Nor do i believe it. I just used it as an example that you have to investigate before you make conclusions. 2Sheds made the authorities look a bit too naive IMHO.

[-Id]

Maybe a new terror group who wanted to send a message or maybe a new group made of dumb terrorists, I hope they will kill themselves with their next bomb.

[sir-chimp]

Doubtfully Neo Nazis. The guys in the video don´t look like em.
I also rule out professional terrorists like the RAF or AQ. Those types don´t make bombs that don´t explode.

Probably two amateurs who wanted to direct attention to the lebanon campaign or something.

Professional arms manufacturers who make ordnance in controlled settings can not guarantee 100% success rate - why would you think it would be any better for terrorist making improvised explosives. Come on get real.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

You got that wrong. They found the bombs, investigated and now published the results. Nothing more, nothing less. Attacks on the railroad system are not new and in some cases in the past they were of a criminal nature. The infamous blackmailer "Dagobert" for example.

There was for example a guy a few years back who put a some very powerful nail bombs on a tram station here in my city, they exploded and many people were injured. bombers can still(!) have different motivations. It turned out to be some Mafia thing. Denial is one thing, investigating is another. There was no "We think it could be XYZ" there was "OK we found out it had a terrorist motive". The bag with arabic symbols in the bag was suspicious for me in the beginning. Too obvious? Misleading?. Let's face it, it could be neo-nazi groups, who want to stir up hate. Hyphothetic - not completely unlikely, there are groups like that also. Just as an example. Anyway first of all you have to investigate and then publish it. You make it sound naive, when the authorities come out with this result 2 weeks(!) after they found the bombs.

Edit: Of course, nazi group would be considered "terror group", too. I know, but there are also psycho criminals around. We had that in the past.

Well, er, in my book, if somebody is planting multiple bombs on trains - that's a terror attack. I don't care if they're extremest Muslims or deranged Tupac fans demanding he return from the dead - it's still a terror attack. What else could it be? Somebody delivering the mail? An umbrella stand? A birthday party? I'm not criticizing the police's methods, or their abilities - what this looks like to me is political pressure being exerted to not use the T word.

[CruddyLeper]

Or it COULD be an attempt by a Western Intelligence Agency to polarise German political opinion into forwarding troops to Lebanon.

UNLIKELY. But possible.

The thing that makes we a tiny bit sceptical - the bombs weren't detonated by their operatives, just left on a train. Which doesn't ring true with Islamo Fascist tactics, now does it?

Also, one of the bags was traceable to the Middle East - again, not typical of the tactics.

Likelihood is, 99% it was a botched terror operation... but there are a couple of niggling inconsistencies.

[tsuri]

One of the Suspects has been arrested. His identity and motivation remain unknown however.



Professional arms manufacturers who make ordnance in controlled settings can not guarantee 100% success rate - why would you think it would be any better for terrorist making improvised explosives. Come on get real.
The nature of the explosives make me doubt that the person who constructed them was in an Al Quada bomb making lecture.
It´s just not their handwriting.

[Switek]

One of the Suspects has been arrested. His identity and motivation remain unknown however.


According Polish media he's citizen of Lebanon (!?)

[Sato]

We should stop calling men who plan these sort of bombings terrorist. Let's just call them ( sick motherf**king ) criminals, because this is what they are.

Calling them terrorists only complicates mathers because this is (generally) linked with muslim extremists. Why would we want everyone to know they are muslims? Why do we want to stigmatise the whole islamic world?

Whatever their motives are, these shouldn't be linked to Islam. They only use Islam as a pretext and by doing this they insult every peace-loving muslim. They are only criminals , whatever their reasons may be, trying to commit mass murder.

[toki]

According Polish media he's citizen of Lebanon (!?)

He's Lebanese and studies Mechatronic in Kiel (northern Germany). But there's another one. As far as i understood he's in some sort of group, but not anything previously known.


Calling them terrorists only complicates mathers because this is (generally) linked with muslim extremists. Why would we want everyone to know they are muslims? Why do we want to stigmatise the whole islamic world?

If he belongs to a group that has political/religious motives he's a terrorist, if he would do it to gain personal profit he'd be a criminal.

[Thunder]

Calling them terrorists only complicates mathers because this is (generally) linked with muslim extremists. Why would we want everyone to know they are muslims? Why do we want to stigmatise the whole islamic world?

Whatever their motives are, these shouldn't be linked to Islam. They only use Islam as a pretext and by doing this they insult every peace-loving muslim. They are only criminals , whatever their reasons may be, trying to commit mass murder.
That's ridiculous. They are Muslim extremists, their motives come from the Islam, yet we should hide these quite important details from media because it might upset a few people who were against us anyway?

[Weasel]

Too much media attention. In 2 or 3 weeks nobody will pay attention anymore.

[Notlim]

World News
FAILED BOMBING ATTEMPT
Lebanese suspect of train bomb arrested in Germany

08/19/2006
The man was arrested early Saturday morning at the main station in the Baltic Sea port city of Kiel, where he lived and studied.

German authorities on Saturday arrested a Lebanese student suspected of helping plant two bombs that failed to explode on trains last month, officials said.

The 21-year-old was detained a day after investigators released surveillance camera footage from July 31, the day of the attempted bombing, showing two men with heavy luggage who were believed to have planted the devices.

The man was arrested early Saturday morning at the main station in the Baltic Sea port city of Kiel, where he lived and studied. Chief prosecutor Monika Harms said he apparently had planned to flee the country, but she did not say where he wanted to go.

Prosecutors said the suspect was identified with the help of the surveillance footage, from Cologne station, and DNA traces from one of the suitcases in which the bombs were found. Joerg Ziercke, the head of Germany's Federal Crime Office, told reporters in Kiel he was confident that “we caught the right suspected bomb planter here in Kiel today.”

The devices, made with gas canisters, were found on board trains in Dortmund and Koblenz, both of which had stopped in Cologne. They apparently were supposed to explode simultaneously, 10 minutes before the trains arrived at those stations.

A torn scrap of paper with Arabic script listing groceries and phone numbers in Lebanon was found in clothing surrounding one gas canister. Small bags of starch, also from Lebanon and available in Germany, also were found.

Investigators have said it was possible the would-be attackers might have wanted to send a message related to fighting in the Middle East, but were tightlipped Saturday on possible motives.

Contacts of the young Lebanese

Other open questions include “what contacts this person has in Germany, whether he has contacts abroad, are there people behind this ... whether there are networks, whether Islamist terrorism plays a role,” Ziercke told a news conference.

Chancellor Angela Merkel's office said in a statement that the German leader was “relieved” at the arrest, which she described as “a great success in the fight against terrorism.”

Prosecutor Harms said in the southwestern city of Karlsruhe that the suspect had come to Germany in September 2004. She identified him only by his first names, Youssef Mohamad. He had been registered as living in Kiel since February 2005 and studied mechatronics, a combination of mechanics, information technology and electronics.

A student residence in Kiel was searched following Saturday's arrest, prosecutors said. Officials said they were still seeking the second suspect from the video recording and had not identified him.

Investigators say the bombs, had they gone off, could have resulted in carriages burning out or the trains derailing, causing numerous injuries or deaths.

However, unlike commuter trains attacked in Madrid in 2004 and subway trains bombed in London last year, the trains involved were relatively empty and traveling outside the rush hour. During the recent fighting in Lebanon, Berlin avoided directly criticizing Israel or calling for an “immediate” cease-fire. However, it tried to draw Syria, a key supporter of Hezbollah, into efforts to defuse the crisis.

Berlin is now considering providing ship patrols, but no combat troops, for an international force in Lebanon.




terrorism for sure! still details to come out!