shooting, how to know your GTG?

[Nevins]

I'v been shooting for some 5 years now. Target shooting. and I have greatly improved over the years. I usally shoot brenchrest, but lately i'v been shooting standing unsupported. How do you know your proficient with your iron sites, whats "good" for a 15 year old? i'v been given advice to stick to iron sites till your proficient, and i have, but I dont know what proficient is. does the Military have standards that you have to meet (x" groupings at x yds) ?

thanks

[onefast93z28]

I think the military has standards, but I don't know them (never served), but I have been in quite a few matches and tend to hit the local range 1-2 times a week.

What are you shooting? At what range? How are your groups?

Being proficient has different meanings to different people, many people I've seen shoot are happy to load up and fire as fast as they can :rolleyes:... while others aren't happy with 1MOA at 100 yards.

[USMC Tanker]

Get away from the bench.

Shoot from the ****e, sitting, kneeling, and standing, all with iron sights. Vary at ranges from 100 to 300 meter until you feel up to the greater ranges.

CONSISTENCY! Ensure you have the same sight picture, sight alignment, hand placement, eye relief, and cheek-weld EVERYTIME you squeeze that trigger.

The biggest thing I can recommend, is to start shooting with someone who knows their ****. You really do need someone to check your position, technique, breathing, all that. We can't do that from the net!

[Nevins]

will do
yea, i shoot with my dad he knows his **** .

i dont shoot at 100 meters that much, its hard for me to keep the same sight picture. but i will start more. I dont get to go to the range much, maybe once a month, twice if im lucky. is there anything I can do at home?

thanks

[gafkiwi]

What the NZ Army uses, and I think this maybe the same across the board is,
For a standard Assault rifle with its standard sight (be it iron or optical), We work off a grouping of 150mm at 100m as the largest permissable size.

(Yeah, does sound large to some guys, but there are some units in our and other armies who may only get to the range maybe twice a year, so they're lucky to achieve that)

The reason for the 150mm at 100m is, If you can group in 150mm at 100m you "THEORETICALLY" should be able to group in 300mm at 200m and in 450mm at 300m.

Our fig 11 tgt is 455mm across, so if you group 150mm or less at 100, in theory at 300m your grouping will be 450mm or less and all of your shots will impact the tgt. If you cant group 150mm at 100 chances are you may drop shots at the firther ranges.

Does that explain it at all?

Just a note most our guys get a side ways look if they can't group under 7cm(thats with a 5.56mm IW Steyr with a 1.5X optical sight, same as the Aug)

[gafkiwi]

As for practicing at home, Covering things like the Marksmanship principles will help a hell of alot.

[Royal]

If you think you are, you probably aren't.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

will do
yea, i shoot with my dad he knows his **** .

i dont shoot at 100 meters that much, its hard for me to keep the same sight picture. but i will start more. I dont get to go to the range much, maybe once a month, twice if im lucky. is there anything I can do at home?

thanks

I guess it sounds really obvious but it wouldn't hurt to work on your arm/upper body strength

[Hollis]

will do
yea, i shoot with my dad he knows his **** .

i dont shoot at 100 meters that much, its hard for me to keep the same sight picture. but i will start more. I dont get to go to the range much, maybe once a month, twice if im lucky. is there anything I can do at home?

thanks

It would probably take a books worth of writing to explain all of essentials of shooting. If you can find a good shooting partner or club. The NRA has programs so does 4 H etc.

Other aspect of having a partner/instructor is the extra set of eyes. In your mind you maybe being doing every thing well, but they will see what you are actually doing.

We had a Local gal, at the age of 16 (I believe) got a Olympic gold medal for one of the shotgun events. So age is not the big issue. It is learning the mechanics of shooting.

[Laworkerbee]

I guess it sounds really obvious but it wouldn't hurt to work on your arm/upper body strength

X2 I shot my Enfield with Stuka yesterday for 5 hours or so and can barely lift my arms at work today, no need for me to bring over 120 rounds of .303 anymore my shoulder simply refuses any more pounding after a certain time and my accuracy goes to hell

on the plus side I was hitting 8X8 inch targets at 500 meters yesturday using Wolf Gold .303 in a standing position.

[TacoDelRio]

Look up Fred's M14 stock dot com. He's got a whole shooting deal you might like.

Do you intend to join the military? Don't shoot benchrest, unless you really enjoy it. Shoot in the field, from different positions. All sortsa stuff.

And don't miss. :)

[gafkiwi]

Yeah, No offence to anyone who gets off on bench rest shooting, but from someone who loves to shoot andhave ago at most styles of shooting, Bench rest shooting is to me like watching paint dry esspecially the small bore stuff, yes there is both a skill and an art to it, but "God" its boring. Once again its only my opinion and I take my hat off to those who have the patients to do it and do it well.

[TacoDelRio]

Yeah, No offence to anyone who gets off on bench rest shooting, but from someone who loves to shoot andhave ago at most styles of shooting, Bench rest shooting is to me like watching paint dry esspecially the small bore stuff, yes there is both a skill and an art to it, but "God" its boring. Once again its only my opinion and I take my hat off to those who have the patients to do it and do it well.

I shot NRA smallbore when I was about 14, and I remember falling asleep on the bench (SAFELY!) at the range one day. That's when I decided it wouldn't help prepare me to shoot better in the Army.

Shoot like you mean it! RAWR!

[gafkiwi]

I took my SLR to the range a week ago and there was a small bore club having a compitition of some sort on the range next to my one, Really quite a civilised affair, what with the pit pit pit of the little rifles.
I tried to wait till they were done cause the SLR can be quite "Loud" and distracting but it went on and on and took fricken ages, and with my patients stretched as far as it would go(after a really ****e week at work too), Bombed up a few mags and unleashed (safely of course) the slr and got me some cardboard kills only to have my missus point out the large group of middle aged men in shooting vests covered in pretty little badges trying to give me the Evil eye....... Well that just made me have to shoot a few more mags did'nt it.....Take that!!!!

Point to take away nevins, Shootings ment to be fun (and safe). Find a caliber of weapon or style of shooting you like/enjoy, then find others who shoot it and learn off them. Initally learning of a family member is good but its good to get out there and learn from others, their styles and experiance.
End state, Hopefully you teaching you old man a thing or two!

[Seraphim]

I took my SLR to the range a week ago and there was a small bore club having a compitition of some sort on the range next to my one, Really quite a civilised affair, what with the pit pit pit of the little rifles.
I tried to wait till they were done cause the SLR can be quite "Loud" and distracting but it went on and on and took fricken ages, and with my patients stretched as far as it would go(after a really ****e week at work too), Bombed up a few mags and unleashed (safely of course) the slr and got me some cardboard kills only to have my missus point out the large group of middle aged men in shooting vests covered in pretty little badges trying to give me the Evil eye....... Well that just made me have to shoot a few more mags did'nt it.....Take that!!!!

Point to take away nevins, Shootings ment to be fun (and safe). Find a caliber of weapon or style of shooting you like/enjoy, then find others who shoot it and learn off them. Initally learning of a family member is good but its good to get out there and learn from others, their styles and experiance.
End state, Hopefully you teaching you old man a thing or two!

Sounded like my experience on Sunday. Forgot that it was bigbore benchrest night. Good thing we brought pistols until they left.

[Laworkerbee]

Yeah, No offence to anyone who gets off on bench rest shooting, but from someone who loves to shoot andhave ago at most styles of shooting, Bench rest shooting is to me like watching paint dry esspecially the small bore stuff, yes there is both a skill and an art to it, but "God" its boring. Once again its only my opinion and I take my hat off to those who have the patients to do it and do it well.

Well said, esp the "paint dry" part. I marvel at those shooters and their patience when I go to the range, but I shake my head at how they got there in the first place as it has ( IMO ) no real world applications

[Hollis]

Well said, esp the "paint dry" part. I marvel at those shooters and their patience when I go to the range, but I shake my head at how they got there in the first place as it has ( IMO ) no real world applications

I got into Bench rest in the mid 70's...... if you think the shooting is boring, then case prep, bullet sorting, etc ect, all the prep time. probably for every hour shooting there is 10 hours of prep time. Definitely for the person who would be a great research lab tech, library research assistants, or playing with a cubic puzzel for hours on end. I did not last long at it. If you have not tried it, I would recommend it, one nevers know.

There is real world applications look at 1000M group size (over 50 years) reduction = means a mean sniper advantage.

[kamarian]

Well said, esp the "paint dry" part. I marvel at those shooters and their patience when I go to the range, but I shake my head at how they got there in the first place as it has ( IMO ) no real world applications

No real world applications? As the same as any other shooting position it teaches you how to hold the weapon, sight picture, trigger control, all sorts of things. You can learn alot from doing a bit of bench rest/big bore/small bore shooting. I did a bit of each before my time in the military, and it helped a lot.

[gafkiwi]

Yeah it can help alot when you start out in shooting especially getting the basics sussed with small bore shooting, but alas for some of us like myself the first time we ever fired a rifle was on basic training.
The main thing I don't like about big bore bench rest shooting is how sterile it can be, A match barrel(with minimal rds through it), huge scope, bench rest, and a variety of personally reload or match ammo and normally on a range or at a tgt of a known distance.
We participated in a civi shooting comp and took our AWs, steyrs and p226s along and lined up against some big "F"n rifles with big "F"n scopes(sub moa jobs) shooting vests, glasses,gloves on bench rests shooting out to 1000m.
Firstly these guys couldnt believe we were shooting with barrels over the 2000rd mark(alot of us were up around 9000), And that we were at most using a sand sock to support the wpn and our sniper pocket book nothing else, they also couldn't get over the ****e we put our wpns through.
The guys did have a hell of alot of knowledge and over the beers afterwards shooting experiance was shared.
One thing those old buggers did though, Was steal our 7.62 and 9mm brass faster than it could come out of the damn wpns!!!

[a_very_ex_STAB]

X2 I shot my Enfield with Stuka yesterday for 5 hours or so and can barely lift my arms at work today, no need for me to bring over 120 rounds of .303 anymore my shoulder simply refuses any more pounding after a certain time and my accuracy goes to hell

on the plus side I was hitting 8X8 inch targets at 500 meters yesturday using Wolf Gold .303 in a standing position.

Sounds good. I love shooting with my Enfield. :-)

[Laworkerbee]

How hard are .303 rounds to come by in Ye Ole England and how much do they cost you?

[California Joe]

I took my SLR to the range a week ago and there was a small bore club having a compitition of some sort on the range next to my one, Really quite a civilised affair, what with the pit pit pit of the little rifles.
I tried to wait till they were done cause the SLR can be quite "Loud" and distracting but it went on and on and took fricken ages, and with my patients stretched as far as it would go(after a really ****e week at work too), Bombed up a few mags and unleashed (safely of course) the slr and got me some cardboard kills only to have my missus point out the large group of middle aged men in shooting vests covered in pretty little badges trying to give me the Evil eye....... Well that just made me have to shoot a few more mags did'nt it.....Take that!!!!

Point to take away nevins, Shootings ment to be fun (and safe). Find a caliber of weapon or style of shooting you like/enjoy, then find others who shoot it and learn off them. Initally learning of a family member is good but its good to get out there and learn from others, their styles and experiance.
End state, Hopefully you teaching you old man a thing or two!

Hahahaha I usually get a strange reaction when I do the same thing with a couple of flintlocks. They notice the crack noise and then there's the smell.....p-) but after a bit people come over and ask questions and want to touch them and stuff.

A good book to read would be The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle by a man named Ned Roberts, as in .257 Roberts. He describes how his Uncle who was a Berdan Sharpshooter in the Civil War taught him to shoot at distance very patiently. I actually have a copy of the book. It was given to me, but I found one at the local library when I lived in Virginia. I was the only one that checked the book out in 5 years....Hollis has probably read it....

[Laworkerbee]

Hahahaha I usually get a strange reaction when I do the same thing with a couple of flintlocks. They notice the crack noise and then there's the smell.....p-) but after a bit people come over and ask questions and want to touch them and stuff.

Joe I'm one of those people whenever there is a flintlock around. I must look like one of those monkeys in 2001 a space oddessy yelling at the monolith.

[Abolith]

Hahahaha I usually get a strange reaction when I do the same thing with a couple of flintlocks. They notice the crack noise and then there's the smell.....p-) but after a bit people come over and ask questions and want to touch them and stuff.

A good book to read would be The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle by a man named Ned Roberts, as in .257 Roberts. He describes how his Uncle who was a Berdan Sharpshooter in the Civil War taught him to shoot at distance very patiently. I actually have a copy of the book. It was given to me but I found one at the local library when I lived in Virginia. I was the only one that checked the book out in 5 years....

Why Joe I had no idea you shot Black powder. personally I *love* my Short barrel Tennessee, but I don't go to the range. I go waaaaay the hell out into the desert and shoot.

[California Joe]

I have a long barreled Tennessee in my closet.....wait, that sounded like a 70's ****o line :)

I have enough acreage up here now that I don't go to a range either. Just run around the woods acting like Daniel Day Lewis....

[Catch22]

"Le Long Carabine" quite classy nickname CJ, although it too fits in 70's **** mood. You use to humm the soundtrack while running? ;-)

I live in blackpowder ghetto - those are only weapons (pre 1850 replicas) which you can purchase and keep without too much formalities (buying black powder is another story). Plenty of my friends are into re-enactment - XVII or XIX century, so matchlocks, wheellocks and flintlocks are around.

On the other hand - is it legal anywhere in States or Canada to hunt with the blackpowder gun?

[Hollis]

I started to build firearms in the early 70's, first one was a flint lock pistol. Still have it.

Black powder, once it gets into your blood, your hooked.

On hunting, Yes, there are special Black powder hunts, various rule on style etc, and nothing prevents blackpowder hunting during regular season in Oregon.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

How hard are .303 rounds to come by in Ye Ole England and how much do they cost you?

.303 is still quite an easy calibre to get hold of in the UK because of its popularity due to its military heritage. It's a while since I bought some but after a quick look at an ad in a shooting mag I'm seeing prices of $40-£60/100 which is probably v. expensive compared to the USA (I'm sure I've bought .303 for a lot less than that though).

[Laworkerbee]

.303 is still quite an easy calibre to get hold of in the UK because of its popularity due to its military heritage. It's a while since I bought some but after a quick look at an ad in a shooting mag I'm seeing prices of $40-£60/100 which is probably v. expensive compared to the USA (I'm sure I've bought .303 for a lot less than that though).

Looks like it's about the same on both sides of the pond, I usualy pay about $1 per round I fire, however I just found a company that distributes new Serbian Made .303 British which has cut my costs almost in half to about .55 cents I hope that becomes a standard.

[Hollis]

Looks like it's about the same on both sides of the pond, I usualy pay about $1 per round I fire, however I just found a company that distributes new Serbian Made .303 British which has cut my costs almost in half to about .55 cents I hope that becomes a standard.


Checkout sportsmanguide.com ........... 400 rds $62.00

100 rds $17.97

[Laworkerbee]

Checkout sportsmanguide.com ........... 400 rds $62.00

100 rds $17.97

But that is for surplus ammo is it not? I've had a few bad runs with surplus ammo, I don't mind the heavy cleaning I have to do afterword but I hate the way that stuff fires. Some ammo I bought through them was marked GB '42 and turned me Enfield into a Brown Bess :|

[Hollis]

But that is for surplus ammo is it not? I've had a few bad runs with surplus ammo, I don't mind the heavy cleaning I have to do afterword but I hate the way that stuff fires. Some ammo I bought through them was marked GB '42 and turned me Enfield into a Brown Bess :|

LOLOL@ the Brown Bess., If I was paying more, I would buy components and load my own. All of my serious shooters I reload for. Example hand loads on my MkII ruger in 308 clover leafs at 100M, with surplus Portugese 308 it is all over the place. 3 - 4 inch group at 100M. That is fine for the 1919 Browning, when just have a mad moment or so.

I had a MAS56 (I think) and it did not like Syrian Surplus 7.5 French. Ammo was hard to find and expensive, I though of rechambering/barreling it to 308... but it was not worth it, so I sold it.

Edited to add, Maybe buy 100 rds, and see how your Enfield likes it.. maybe just plinking ammo..

[Laworkerbee]

For the longest time I considered rechambering my Enfield to 7.62X54mm but just don't have the heart to do it. Stuka is getting into reloading and my master plan is to turn him into my bullet monkey.

Until then I've found these guys www.ammobros.com their shop was an ammunition wonderland with reasonable prices and everything under the sun, I can't recommend this place enough to shooters in the Southland..

and I really do want a Brown Bess but in the meantime I'm digging through my couches and change jars for this http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=54672877

[StukaJr]

Stuka is getting into reloading and my master plan is to turn him into my bullet monkey.


Ooohhhh-hhhooouuhhh-hooouuhhh-huuh-oooooo! I still remember that "super quadruple 12ga" load me and Roman made for you - aka "nothing but primer"... :D

I'm ambushing FedEx guy or gal tonight - gonna tumble and sort the brass tonight instead of dinner!

I do read that .303 Brit casings stretch the worst at most instances...

[Laworkerbee]

Ooohhhh-hhhooouuhhh-hooouuhhh-huuh-oooooo! I still remember that "super quadruple 12ga" load me and Roman made for you - aka "nothing but primer"... :D

my god I wish you guys had caught my expression on film rofl

[StukaJr]

my god I wish you guys had caught my expression on film rofl

You really braced for that one and then it just went "piieepeeoouu..." That was the only time I've ever seen you flinch too :D

[Laworkerbee]

Bastards rofl