Do you think Goretex Jackets are overrated?

[leatherneck]

How well have your goretex jackets performed in keeping you dry? I've heard many guys who give it rave reviews, and others who say it will leak in hard rain, and any amount of activity will overload the breathability factor. Are there any alternatives out there that are just as good, but less expensive?

Edit: I also noticed the PCU did away with breatheable rain jackets and went with a coated nylon jacket.

[fox_111]

Well, my CF issue goretex raingear is the best purchase I'v ever done. (I'm not in the forces).

Mine never leaked, even in hard rain or in wet snow. I wear it under my BDU when it's cold outside. It's also a great addition under my winter kit, to isolate and protect against wet snow.

So yes, one more happy goretex user.

[USMC Tanker]

I would have to say that I'm satisfied with my Goretex gear. I'm sure that there are better alternatives (albeit more expensive) but in my opinion, the Goretex is sufficient.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that a hard rain will soak right through. After days of hard rain, does anything feel dry? Either way, I'd rather have the Goretex than many other products out there.

[Tribunius]

I have never had a problem with it. Find it better than the old stuff we used to be issued. Its lighter and packs smaller. The problem with wet gear is you trap your own body heat making you sweat thus making you wet but you sweat less if its made of goretex.

I'll second USMC Tanker on the whole after days of rain nothing really feels dry.

[stuntman]

Well not in the military but I am the proud owner of a NorthFace (Heavy) Mountain jacket with gortex and it has yet to leak. I have been in Monsoon type rain storms here in the North East and it performs excellent during the snow. The one thing I will tell you is that it will not work if humidity is high. meaning if it is raining and a little warmer your gortex membrane will not breath. BUt then enter the pit zips, and they tend to do the job. The new XCR liners are actually a little more breathable compared to standard gortex, but that is only importand if you are a extreme sports person (Ice Climbing, snowboarding, Etc..).
Other then gortex I find that the EMS 2.5-layer System III which is found in thier non gortex items actually work rather well. It is light weight and very breathable but usually comes in one layer..

[Katana-sr]

It depends on the membrane used and on how many layers of membrane the jacket has. Also the quality of seams and zippers (if any) is important, obviously. There are quite some quality differences.

[Limeyfellow]

It tends to work better in colder climates with the breathability. Put it in hot climates and it starts to struggle in my opinion. Much more a winter product than summer.

[Luno]

Yes Goretex is damn overrated. I hade to the opportunity to talk about Goretex with a officer from the Swedish arctic survival school and he say that Goretex is junk it don’t work in the arctic cold and also the Goretex material have short life comparing to the material in the Swedish M90 (50% cotton and 50% Polyester)

[martinexsquaddie]

if your moving fast no breathable membranes going to keep up
sweat you produce but there still 10 times better than a non breathable material.
best waterproof breathable jacket I ever had was a ventile SAS smock outrageously expensive but waterproof breathable silent and bomb proof just did'nt hold dye to well
but goretex rocks compared with pu lined waterproofs

[DeltaWhisky58]

I have several Goretex garments albeit commercial and not military. IMO after years of experience they do not leak, however neither do they "breath" as effectively as advertised. If you do anything strenuous you will get just as wet inside from sweat as you would had the garment leaked .

That aside, I'd still rather have Goretex or similar than a non-breathable fabric.

One of my smocks has zip-openings under the arms - this makes a huge difference if your warn - go for this feature if you can get it.

[Creeper]

With 3 Mil. sets and 1 civilian(early gen,) i use them when moving in ****ty weather at a slow pace, or drinking beer by a fire in the mountains when a steady snow is falling.
My .02 cents:Many winter nights here in N. America, I have spent (Sleeping) outside with a G.I. issue Gore kit,,(no bivey) no worries,, rain,, no worries,, on and on..
Maintain the fabric as advertised. Keeps the snifles away!

[Beer Monster]

IMHO Gortex is good when used with in its “fairly narrow” limits.

In rainy but hot and humid weather or high exertion activities (in a jacket with no venting options) you will sweat to much and swamp the membrane making it no more effective than a cheap nylon jacket.

Gortex also has a "Durable Water Repellency" (DWR) chemical coating applied to the outer fabric laminate that causes water landing on it to bead up on the surface of that outer layer and roll down off the fabric. If you wash your gortex clothing in a machine wash with anything other than pure soap flakes (i.e. if you wash it with a biological powder or anything guaranteed to make your whites whiter than white! ..... in other words keep your WAGs away from it!) the chemical coating will be removed meaning that instead of beading and running off the water will spread like film across the surface effectively blocking the pores underneath and making the jacket again no different from a cheap nylon jacket.

Gortex also needs a temperature gradient to work i.e. it has to be colder outside the jacket than inside. In arctic conditions it is possible that your under garments effectively insulate your body hence the gap between your midlayer and gortex shell gets as cold as the air outside, the gortex will stop functioning and in the worst case scenario moisture vapour can form ice inside your jacket! Not a pleasant experience.

Having said the above gortex is very effective in temperate climates but outside this then I’d go for Ventile (as issued to the British Antarctic survey teams!).

Just my 2 pence.

[loganinkosovo]

How well have your goretex jackets performed in keeping you dry? I've heard many guys who give it rave reviews, and others who say it will leak in hard rain, and any amount of activity will overload the breathability factor. Are there any alternatives out there that are just as good, but less expensive?

Edit: I also noticed the PCU did away with breatheable rain jackets and went with a coated nylon jacket.

Lets see....

I've had a fresh out of the bag brand new issue goretex parka leak like a sive across the shoulders.
Even if it doesn't leak you will need some sort of liner since your shoulders become cold and feel wet in a heavy downpour without a liner.

in tropical, warm or moderate weather forget it. You will sweat to death from the inside.

In some very bad winters I've survived with longjohns a sweater, a fieldjacket liner and the issue coated nylon rain jacket. If you get too hot just unzip the jacket a little.

in deep snow, the gortex marine issue (bib overall trousers instead of waist high trousers) with the bear suit underneath is good.

In a high desert, or dry cold environment Gortex creates static electricity which is a problem when handling explosives and pyrotechnics. Found this out the hard way.

The issue U.S. Army rubber boots (galoshes) are complete crap (last about an hour or two when walking or marching) and the old black 5 buckle tall rubber boots of the vietnam/post-vietnam era are a hell of a lot better.

The G.I.s wear the gortex only when necessary and wear the rain jacket or the new black arctic fleece gortex liner jacket or a combination of both most of the time.

Wool, cotton, rubberized and oilcloth are still the best but they are heavy.

And wool will retain heat even though its wet.

[Catch22]

It seems that we have some similiar observations. GTX is ok but only for some jobs - namely limited movement, observation, camping, riding in foul weather in open hatches etc. I have used breathable traditional garments, GTX and those new US PCU's as well - They all have their strong points but none is absolutely universal. I like PCU Lvl5 and 7 as an idea for basic winter uniform but these are made of quite fragile material, so better wear your "whites" over them.

[bluffcove]

In most cases you get damp from condnesation held against the skin.

You do not need to pile layers on when wearing a goretex.

[gaijinsamurai]

I love Gortex, but like what's already been said by others, not in every situation. On Thursday/Friday, I climbed Mt. Fuji (12,000+ ft), wearing a gortex (civilian) jacket. By the time I got 3/4 of the way up, I was soaked in sweat, which kinda defeated the whole purpose of keeping the rain off! Still, for most situations I find myself in (walking or riding my bike to work in Japan's wet climate), it's great.

[kayaker]

I have several Goretex garments albeit commercial and not military. IMO after years of experience they do not leak, however neither do they "breath" as effectively as advertised. If you do anything strenuous you will get just as wet inside from sweat as you would had the garment leaked .

That aside, I'd still rather have Goretex or similar than a non-breathable fabric.

One of my smocks has zip-openings under the arms - this makes a huge difference if your warn - go for this feature if you can get it.

Funny I had a long thought about Goretex in the train this morning... I decided that when you sport or do strenious outdoor activities even if you dont wear anything you will sweat (something about ATP reactions in the mitochondria cristae, in muscles, it being a exothermic reaction... A level people please explain)

For Goretext to work it is important that there is a concentration gradient, the higher the better, therefore closing all zips and gaps is probably a good idea.

I agree with DW58, rather gortex than not. Have you ever had to haul hail bails from trailer to barn, in summer, in the pissing rain, wearing large wax coat and wax hat? I had: felt like I was in a wax coat swimming pool!

[Apogee]

Gortex garmets, when used properly are extremly effective. Its not the end all be all of fabrics. But its kept me comfortable in some pretty sucky conditions. I've also seen people (both mil and non-mil) use it improperly and get themselves into bad situations. When I climb in the winter I rock my North Face Mountain Light and it kicks ass.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/jackal419/northfacegear.jpg

[kayaker]

So what is properly and what is not according to you?

[Luno]

there is a Gore-Tex jacket made for the paratroopers in the Swedish army called FJS02 and it made by a company called Taiga :)


Link
http://www.taiga.se/


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8439/302010686zh3.jpg

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3686/7800xa2.jpg

[Ranger89]

Having spent 20+ years in the forces, in adverse weather, in many different places on the planet, I reckon you cant beat it. In the end though, it doesnt matter what kit you have on, if your in hammering rain for long enough you are going to get damp and if it aint your day wet. The only way to stay dry is to stay inside and thats no fun really is it.

[cosimo]

I dislike goretex jackets. There is a fabric called eVent which is slowly taking over from goretex in popularity. It is significantly more capable at dealing with condensation. Many gear manufacturers are using it now, particularly those that manufacture for serious outdoor activities.

Goretex has been around a long time and spends millions in marketing, this is why its so popular. If you're after a waterproof for occasional wear in the wet then any jacket with a waterproof membrane will do. For high activity use then eVent is the choice of many pros.

[RGRBOX]

Gortex is a great material, and I've had the chance to test it in 1986 with my Bn.. worked great.. better then anything at the time that was out there.. anyway, like anything else, when you wear Gortex or anthing else, you should layer your clothing, and take off what isn't needed.. we never wore Gortex while moving or patrolling.. noise, and heat.. if it was raining, and you were about to do a Raid, ambush etc.. then you were 99.9% change of laying down on the ground, so wearing it doing that was useless.. so we had it, worked well.

[Hollis]

Goretex has addressed many of the earlier issues. It is about the only fabric that people look for. A lot of companies use propitiatory fabrics, ie; Helitech. There is more to a jacket than fabric. It has to be designed and made to be "water proof".

No fabric can breath as fast as you can sweat. Being able to open a jacket up is important. Panels or "opening zips' add to breathability, Lining is critical too. Nothing breaths a 98% humidity and at full exertion.

ARCTIC conditions is just very very different to compare Goretex with other fabrics. Nylon insulated wind suits have been used, the issues at constant sub zero is different, People also use vapor barrier suits under the insulation layers. Breatability becomes a much lessor issue and may not be desirable. A 10 pound sleeping bag can begin to weight 50 pounds because of condensation of sweat over time while sleeping, a Vapor barrier liner will help to prevent that.

Back to Goretex, the more feature the greater the expense. All seam needs to be sealed, all joints uses a extra operation to insure sealing and capillary action. There are degrees of construction, to storm proof. The nice effect of Goretex is not having that clammy feeling.

Just taking a jacket designed and making it with Goretex does not guarantee any thing. Again construction and design is very critical.

It has been my observation that some people oversell Goretex clothing, the owner needs to know how to "work it" for maximum efficiency.

[SOF]

Well I think that goretex is the best in some statick position like OP for exapmple, but if it is raining heavilly it wount help long anyway. But the good side is that if your are already soaked, goretex jacket will keep you warm even then it's worn on wet closes and at the same time BDU will go dry. Onother thing goretex is windproof so it keeps it warmer anyway.
I have to say that I hate goretex pants, 'couse they condensating ass that much that in some hrs world becomes full of pain p-)
The best goretex I'v ever tried was Canadian artict warfare uniform ( can't remember now how it's called)
P.S> The best thing that keeps you confy in the rain is the wetsuit :)

[Catch22]

I dislike goretex jackets. There is a fabric called eVent which is slowly taking over from goretex in popularity. It is significantly more capable at dealing with condensation. Many gear manufacturers are using it now, particularly those that manufacture for serious outdoor activities.

Goretex has been around a long time and spends millions in marketing, this is why its so popular. If you're after a waterproof for occasional wear in the wet then any jacket with a waterproof membrane will do. For high activity use then eVent is the choice of many pros.

That eVent siliconized nylon fabric used in PCU's is all nice but very delicate (too delicate for an outer shell IMO), and it's only water repellant - not proof so when its pissing outside it wont stand too long to the weather.

[James]

When I was in the USMC Goretex wasn't an issued item, at least not in my battalion. We were issued field jackets, liners, and polypro for cold weather, and ponchos for rain.
If it was warm and raining, we'd just get wet. I always found (and still feel this way) that getting wet is the unpleasant part - once wet (if it's not too cold) isn't that bad.

Now I have an REI jacket:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=48024612&parent_category_rn=4501460&vcat=REI_SEARCH

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3363/onejacbq5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
It works pretty well.

[Hutz]

It's a hell of a lot better than the ****e we had in the CF before it.

[ERASERHEAD]

I just bought a Gortex Parka on Ebay im sure i'll be pleased, considering i only spent 30$ and its new

[Resurrection]

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3686/7800xa2.jpg

An actor, right?

[LaoSexMachine]

No problem with my Gore Tex. Kepted me dry and warm. Oh yeah, I still have it.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Yes, good stuff if it's brand new. You just have to take care of ti and maintain it.

[Canadian Guy]

Goretex I believe is somewhat overated, it has its limitations but when used properly/in the right environment it can be a lifesaver. With the CF issuing alot of Goretex type outwear I've learned that you quickly overheat and overwhelm the materials ability to allow H2O vapour through which in cold weather is a VERY BAD thing. Being wet from sweat in sub-zero temps is definately not good, unfortunately our new winter gear and field jacket/pants are all Goretex:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/2/242_e.asp

We should have gone only with a Gortex type rainjacket/pants which is soon to be issued.The combat jacket & pants I can live with being Goretex but the Parka and overalls it is not necessary. Anyone that is wearing that gear is in extreme cold and getting wet is not likely, those who have been in -30, -40 or even -50 temps know you don't get wet except from sweat (because you are dressed to warm or are in Goretex!). Lastly people do not know how to maintain it, they use regular fabric detergant and do not reapply a waterrepellant type coating on it. I found some great civilian detergant and water repellant at an outdoors store that is made for Goertex materials and it seems to work good. Nikwax is one such product:

www.nikwax-usa.com/en-us/

[freedomofold]

Gortex is not meant to be warn in and of itself. It is designed to be the last layer. Most manufactures refer to there gortex as shells. Wear the right under layer and you wont notice the sweat. I live in the mountains, I own a few gortex shells and some soft shells.

If you are dealing with warmer wet, softshells are the way to go. They move better then gortex and offer nearly the same protection.

[stuntman]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/jackal419/northfacegear.jpg

Fantastic model. I have the same model but in Bomber length (shorter then 3quarter length and longer then jacket waist length) plus it is in aztec blue and it is a heavy model. The jacket has cordura nylon all in the right spots. I always wondered why northface jackets switched from different weights in cordura construction to a nylon ripstop style and material. Unless the newer Ripstop is more durable?

[praetorian6]

No problem with my Gore Tex. Kepted me dry and warm. Oh yeah, I still have it.

x2. Kept mine as well. You know it's not that bad if the guys are keeping them.

[lwp]

anyone use Bundeswehr Goretex? I'm planning to buy (used condition) and I wonder is it good?

[Grumpy Bastard]

I've had quite a few Goretex items over the years. They performed well enough if maintained properly, wash & iron occasionally & reproofed with NikWax etc. I was never very impressed by the breathablity though.
A few years ago I switched to Buffalo (Pertex & pile lined) kit for insulation and, just to be old skool, Ventile :D as an extra windproof layer when needed. I also took up drinking Real Ale just to complete the effect :). Anyway I much prefer these garments from the veiw of abrasion restistance and comfort. Never had any issued with them even in a real hoolie either. Not had a chance to try any eVent gear as yet.

[BillySing]

My issued gore-tex jacket and trouser's make a rainy sub-zero 3 0'clock picquet sooooooooooo much more bearable :)

that and a raincoat make you virtually impervious to the elements..... and now ive got a nice pair of hellstorm gloves.........

[ClydeFrog]

anyone use Bundeswehr Goretex? I'm planning to buy (used condition) and I wonder is it good?
I'd be careful with used Bundeswehr stuff as it's often from subscripts who don't really care for their material. And afaik goretex will lose its capabilities if not cleaned and cared for the proper way, no?

That aside the goretex jacket we were issued functioned as advertised: it keeps you dry from outside water... but it does NOT exactly breathe as good as you'd think. I heard there was better (=more expensive) stuff out there.
We had these thin trousers and jackets by the way. Those that you put over your regular clothes.

[lwp]

I'd be careful with used Bundeswehr stuff as it's often from subscripts who don't really care for their material. And afaik goretex will lose its capabilities if not cleaned and cared for the proper way, no?

That aside the goretex jacket we were issued functioned as advertised: it keeps you dry from outside water... but it does NOT exactly breathe as good as you'd think. I heard there was better (=more expensive) stuff out there.
We had these thin trousers and jackets by the way. Those that you put over your regular clothes.
Thanks for info!