Blackwater and Heckler & Koch Form Training Program

[Geezah]

Heckler & Koch and Blackwater announced today the formation of a joint training program.
Blackwater HK International Training Services will develop and teach high-
level firearms, tactical, and armorer's courses that use renowned Heckler &
Koch weapons.

Blackwater HK International Training Services will combine the current
courses of the Heckler & Koch Training Group of Ashburn, Virginia, with
curriculum developed jointly by Heckler & Koch and the Blackwater Training
Center, one of the business units of Blackwater and the largest private
training facility in the United States.

"Our joining with Blackwater Training brings two international leaders
together to provide a full spectrum of services to our customers," said
retired Major General John G. Meyer, Jr., Heckler & Koch Chief Executive
Officer. "We will continue to offer training at customers' locations;
additionally, since all courses now will also be available at Blackwater's
state-of-the-art training facilities, our customers will have the
opportunity to hone their skills in a first-class learning environment."

"Heckler & Koch arms are often the weapons of choice for military and
law enforcement professionals on the front line in the long war to support
security, peace, freedom, and democracy," said Blackwater's President Gary
Jackson. "Joining with Heckler & Koch links two preeminent companies in a
truly unique and strategic partnership that will bring training to a new
level in this industry."

Course offerings of Blackwater HK International Training Services
include the full spectrum of operator and instructor classes covering HK
submachine guns, pistols, and rifles. Armorers' courses cover current HK
weapons and newly developed systems like the HK416 carbine.

As part of the HK and Blackwater relationship, Heckler & Koch
accessories, merchandise, and apparel will be sold in the Blackwater "Pro
Shop" located at the Moyock, North Carolina training facility. Special
edition HK/Blackwater firearms are being developed. HK logo products and
accessories will also be sold through the Blackwater web site
(http://www.blackwaterusa.com/proshop).

About Blackwater

Founded in 1997 by a former U.S. Navy SEAL, Blackwater was created on
the belief that both the military and law enforcement establishments would
require additional capacity to train fully our brave men and women in and
out of uniform to the standards required to keep the country secure. "The
Blackwater family" of business lines includes: Blackwater Training Center
(the largest private firearms and tactical training center in the U.S.),
Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, Blackwater Armor &
Targets, Blackwater Logistics, Blackwater Airships, and Raven Development.

About Heckler & Koch

Heckler & Koch is the world's premier small arms systems company and a
major supplier to global military and federal law enforcement agencies. An
innovative leader in design and manufacturing, Heckler & Koch provides
technologically advanced firearms, logistical support, training and specialized services with the highest standards of innovation and reliability. Heckler & Koch's well-known range of weaponry includes the MP5 submachine gun, the MP7 Personal Defense Weapon, the G36 weapon system, and the HK416 carbine.

Link (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-21-2006/0004419063&EDATE=)

Well that kinda sucks, would have prefered to see a SIG and Blackwater partnership especially after they released the Blackwater SIG P226.

[James]

BW already hooked up with Bushmaster. I suspect that they will hook up with SIG in the future.

[dacanadianbomb]

I was thinking the same, I am surprised that "right" after the Blackwater Sig, they would then team up with HK.
But business is business.
And this is for the training part anyway.

[SMGLee]

With profit dropping, it might be make more sense to drop the ITD and just have BW take over the training portion.

[Laconian]

I wonder if that means all the BW guys will get issued H&Ks instead of Glocks...

[piebiter]

I think that it is a win/win situation, HK's array of small arms is second to none and they have a long history of field success with their tactical weapons.

[BlatoJ]

All I know about HK is it hell of expensive Weapons...

I hear they do much work in Iraq and especailly in Najaf.
Blackwater snipers engage enemy insurgents in najaf, iraq
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RZDcTDetTS4

[piebiter]

In the contractor field of operations price takes a backseat to dependability and accuracy. HK doesn't skimp on those...in other words you get what you pay for. In HK's case they target the professional markets more than the civilian market.

[Geezah]

In the contractor field of operations price takes a backseat to dependability and accuracy. HK doesn't skimp on those...in other words you get what you pay for. In HK's case they target the professional markets more than the civilian market.

Which really is a shame as they have a huge civilian following, but I really don't care as I love SIGsp-)

[piebiter]

Got nothing against SIG's, got a couple of buds that own them.

[James]

In the contractor field of operations price takes a backseat to dependability and accuracy.

Hmm... having been a contractor for a number of years, I'd have to disagree.

[piebiter]

So are you saying that cost is more important to you than the quality of the weapon that you are basing your life/clients upon? Or that you don't have a choice in the matter and that decision is out of your hands?

[Ravage]

Well that kinda sucks, would have prefered to see a SIG and Blackwater partnership especially after they released the Blackwater SIG P226.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sig/sig_226-blackwater.jpg

I want one I want one woot

[SMGLee]

So are you saying that cost is more important to you than the quality of the weapon that you are basing your life/clients upon? Or that you don't have a choice in the matter and that decision is out of your hands?

I think he is trying to said the HK quality is not all that.

What weapon are you referring to the Contractors are actually using?

HK USP? I am sure it isn't the 416 or the G36. most of the PSd I saw used glocks in droves.

you are a HK kool-aide drinker, HK is not the world. there are plenty of great weapon manufactures out there.. Take FN for one.

[Ravage]

Well the Glock has a bigger clip (17 rounds), and tests prove its one tough gun. But I also saw a vid about Contrators and they were using Sig 226.

[SMGLee]

Well the Glock has a bigger clip (17 rounds), and tests prove its one tough gun. But I also saw a vid about Contrators and they were using Sig 226.

Magazine....:)

Yea, there is plenty of guns of all types. I even saw one carrying a Steyr GB... that was kind of cool to see.

[Ravage]

Magazine....:)

I call them as I see them p-) but thanks anywho :hug:

[22.5degrees]

It is not a clip, a clip is what girls use to hold their hair back. A magazine is what is used to store spare ammunition. For the most part when comparing double stack 9mm pistols there is little difference in capacity. Usually 2 rounds more in favor of the Glock. I agree more is better, however the gain achieved by the Glock does not offset other factors such as cost, operator familiarity, and access to parts and services.

(I still love my Glock 17..)

22.5

[AG1970]

I think that it is a win/win situation, HK's array of small arms is second to none and they have a long history of field success with their tactical weapons.

...and a long history of crummy customer service/support, management that couldn't market free ***, and a trend of screwing with dealers so that parts become overpriced.

The make great weapons, the rest of the company is defective.

[Argyll]

Contractors use whatever has been bought for them, I've seen Sigs,Glocks, CZ's, Baretta's and Brownings(HP)....I've used Glocks and Baretta's in the companies I work for

[Redguy]

Contractors use whatever has been bought for them, I've seen Sigs,Glocks, CZ's, Baretta's and Brownings(HP)....I've used Glocks and Baretta's in the companies I work for

Stupid question but seeing how you used Glocks and Baretta's in companies you worked for. Would it be safe to assume your a contractor?

[Seraphim]

Stupid question but seeing how you used Glocks and Baretta's in companies you worked for. Would it be safe to assume your a contractor?

rofl :cantbeli:

[ToyotaF1Fan]

I think he is trying to said the HK quality is not all that.

What weapon are you referring to the Contractors are actually using?

HK USP? I am sure it isn't the 416 or the G36. most of the PSd I saw used glocks in droves.

you are a HK kool-aide drinker, HK is not the world. there are plenty of great weapon manufactures out there.. Take FN for one.

Why do you hate HK and refer to anyone who likes their products as an HK Kool-Aide drinker? Vendetta?

TF1

[Ravage]

Contractors use whatever has been bought for them, I've seen Sigs,Glocks, CZ's, Baretta's and Brownings(HP)....I've used Glocks and Baretta's in the companies I work for

one of the oldest spec.ops. weapons on the market, read that SASR still uses them in combat

[Argyll]

Brownings are reliable and sturdy, and plain, no fancy shyt on them, as for SASR still using them, I couldn't answer that.

I used the Glock 17 for 2 years, and it was the dogs bollocks, I loved it, now I have the heavier M9, it's not as comfy in my hands as the 17 was.

Ublekhu.....yes I've been Security contracting in Iraq since Apr 2004, best job I've ever had, I've met some outstanding people from many different Nationalities, many of whom I'm proud to call "friend and brother"......there's nothing quite like the cameraderie of warriors.

Plus you get to wear Oakleys and 5.11's ......p-)

[Ravage]

call me a retard, but what is a 5.11 ?

[czr]

call me a retard, but what is a 5.11 ?

Tactical clothing, all sorts of vests and jackets that have pockets for pistols and radios and other tools of the trade.

[Laconian]

Tactical clothing, all sorts of vests and jackets that have pockets for pistols and radios and other tools of the trade.

5.11 - the spin off of Royal Robbins - makes everything from hats to boots and everything in between. I'm not sure they've marketed underwear yet, but give them time.

It is good clothing, although I'm not a fan of their new BDU style pants. The Lightweight (nylon) ones were hot and uncomfortable to me. The slash pocket new style are still good. Their polos and shirts are real good, also. The desert boots have held up okay so far over here.

[Geezah]

I call them as I see them p-) but thanks anywho :hug:

I know SMGLee and 22.5degrees covered it but I find visual aids often help.

A Hair Clip
http://www.tlhs.org/car089.jpg
M1 Garand Clip
http://www.usarmory.com/ftp/2rndclip.jpg
Pistol Magazine
http://www.entreprise.com/Catalog/Magazines/p_brw-41AE-m.jpg
A bunch of AR15/M16 Magazines
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/ar_gi_magsn.jpg

It's one of my pet peeves, the small words make all the difference;)

[Ravage]

ok, I'm convinced now :hug:

[piebiter]

I think he is trying to said the HK quality is not all that.

What weapon are you referring to the Contractors are actually using?

HK USP? I am sure it isn't the 416 or the G36. most of the PSd I saw used glocks in droves.

you are a HK kool-aide drinker, HK is not the world. there are plenty of great weapon manufactures out there.. Take FN for one.
I never mentioned anything about USP's, nor did I address handguns in general. I said HK has an array of weapons second to none and I stand by that statement. What does Glock offer that compares to a MP5 or a MP7A1 or a UMP etc.etc. How about a PSG1? Nor did I say there weren't other good weapons out there. I'd say you have a problem if you get so easily ticked off to the point of such a stupid attack as the above quote. I can see that further discussions with someone with your attitude is pointless.

[James]

piebiter,

In my earlier post I meant that we aren't able to choose what we are issued; generally we get reliable stuff, but the companies we work for are interested in making profits. So, it is more likely to have a $400 Glock than a $600 Sig or HK.

About your post above, you need to relax.

[chauncy republicans]

I can see that further discussions with someone with your attitude is pointless.

That's pretty unfortunate for yourself, SMGLee is a treasur-trove of information when it comes to the small arms industry. Lets not start crying because he does'nt think the world of HK.

[Geezah]

That's pretty unfortunate for yourself, SMGLee is a treasur-trove of information when it comes to the small arms industry. Lets not start crying because he does'nt think the world of HK.

Too true, I always enjoy reading SMGLee's posts.

[SMGLee]

Why do you hate HK and refer to anyone who likes their products as an HK Kool-Aide drinker? Vendetta?

TF1

I don't hate HKs..

I own two MP5s, MP5A3 and a MP5S; two USPs, USP45 Tactical and a 40 Expert; one P7M13, one G3 and one G36CQB.

I just don't think they are that great of a weapons company as some are tend to worship them with God like status. HK have been riding on the MP5 wave for way too long, and everything they came out with since has been lackluster. Except for the HK 416, which are a nice piece of kit but unobtainable by general LE and civilains.

In my opinion MP5 was the pinnacle of HK design, that gun has been what every SMG need to follow in order to be successful. Nothing unitl this day in the SMG arena can compare to a HK MP5. I too love my HK, but i just don't think the world of them...

[SMGLee]

I never mentioned anything about USP's, nor did I address handguns in general. I said HK has an array of weapons second to none and I stand by that statement. What does Glock offer that compares to a MP5 or a MP7A1 or a UMP etc.etc. How about a PSG1? Nor did I say there weren't other good weapons out there. I'd say you have a problem if you get so easily ticked off to the point of such a stupid attack as the above quote. I can see that further discussions with someone with your attitude is pointless.


Pleae name on weapon that is second to none other then the MP5.

You sound like someone that bought into the HK marketing ads and the hype.

By the statement that youmade as to Glock and HK... Glock offer a G17 that is by far one of the best 9mm pistol in the world.

As far as a Semi auto sniper rifel, PSG-1 is a clobber together battel rifle. it is heavier then you think and it is not that accurate. by adding side plates, heavy barrel and picking the best parts out of the factgory and hand fitting it together, it is still do not live up to its intended ability. even the cheaper MSG90 has been a low performer. it is a good gun in its days, but today there are many semi auto sniper rifle that can match and suppass the PSG-1. a 1k Armalite AR10 can do the same job as a PSG1 and do it as well if not bettter. and i am not even mentioning the KAc MK11.

MP7? hahhaaaa.......nice 22 mag SMG. go back and learn about the ballistics and then come back and tell me the MP7 is a great gun second to none.

UMP is a cheaper alternative to the MP5. the straight blow back creates a torque to the right effect that can't be compensated. especially int he 45ACP. Nothing in the SMG market shoots better then a MP5, none....ok.. UMP45 does fill a niche, no one on the market makes a good 45 SMG. UMP fill the need for that. I enjoy shooting it, but it is no weapon second to none. LAPD was presented with the UMP45 since they are big supporter of the MP5 and their primary sidearms are 1911 in 45. it would have been a marriage made in heaven.. guess what.. they decided to stick with the MP5... I wonder why... :)

I do agree with you on one thing... MP5 is second to none...and the latest 416 has taken the M16 family one step further... but that is about it.

[dacanadianbomb]

piebiter,

In my earlier post I meant that we aren't able to choose what we are issued; generally we get reliable stuff, but the companies we work for are interested in making profits. So, it is more likely to have a $400 Glock than a $600 Sig or HK.

About your post above, you need to relax.



Or a Browning HighPower
or a CZ75
or if your really really unlucky, you get a cheap Beretta license production out of iraq

:-))

edit: I must second that I always thoroughly enjoy SMGLee's posts.

[Chops]

one of the oldest spec.ops. weapons on the market, read that SASR still uses them in combat

SASR certainly still have tuned High Powers in the inventory although the USP sees most duty these days both on the CT and green sides of the fence.

[MEGR]

I own two MP5s, MP5A3 and a MP5S; two USPs, USP45 Tactical and a 40 Expert; one P7M13, one G3 and one G36CQB.


Gosh darn, you do? Hey man, can I come over and play some day? Need an extra friend? Preferably somebody you've never met and hails from a deep, dark, obscure internet forum?

[SMGLee]

Gosh darn, you do? Hey man, can I come over and play some day? Need an extra friend? Preferably somebody you've never met and hails from a deep, dark, obscure internet forum?

you in SoCal?

[MEGR]

you in SoCal?

Nah, I'm on the other side of the country :( I may be going to Sac. in October but that's it. *sigh*

[HKPRO]

I don't hate HKs..

..


Just made a fresh pot of Grape Kool-Aid my man. You in?

:)

[SMGLee]

Heading to Boston in September, heading to Maryland soon. Keep that Grape kool-aide chilled. ;)

[SniperAndy]

Not surprised seeing Blackwater doing really well and extending business if you look at the contrac t they got themselfs from the bush administration.

With Blackwater being a rahter "small firm" until a few years back they sure do really well now and making some good money. Would be stupid if they stop in their tracks. And doing business with HK sure is a good idea...

[Hollis]

Too true, I always enjoy reading SMGLee's posts.

2 X here too..................

I am not a big H&K fan either.........

[Geezah]

I am not a big H&K fan either.........

I dunno, I seem to enjoy their selection of select fire firearms ;)

[Hollis]

I dunno, I seem to enjoy they selection of select fire firearms ;)

Yeah me too, I love to own a USP, and a MP5, I have two G3's........ I am more of a fan of old stuff......

Good looking wood, good looking metal parts, Stuff like Cali Joe has.

[Geezah]

Yeah me too, I love to own a USP, and a MP5, I have two G3's........

Yeah, my only thing is not enough funds fro ClassIII:(




I am more of a fan of old stuff......

Good looking wood, good looking metal parts, Stuff like Cali Joe has.

I guessed that, nothing wrong with that though, still keeping it alive for the rest of us to enjoy.

[bp_968]

Yeah, my only thing is not enough funds for ClassIII:(



I know that feeling. I still think I'll buy a MP5 sear gun someday. Hopefully we don't get loaded down with anti-gun morons before i get the cash for it.