9mm bullet malfunction

[Vioman]

A few months ago I was shooting with my unit and I had a weird experience.
The gun clicked and there was no discharge. I thought the slidestop didnt catch after the last round was fired, so I pulled the slide back.
The slide went back, ejected an empty casing, pouring gunpowder all over the gun and the bullet itself was lodged in the chamber. Wtf. Scared the ****e off me, thinking it could have exploded in my face and ruining my day.
Gun was a SIG P210.
Ammo was AMA miltary 9mm FMJ.

Anyone tried this??

[StukaJr]

Sounds like a "squib" - I take it, the primer set off but failed to ignite the powder? If primer did not go off - then I don't know what would have moved the bullet down the barrel... During the squib, it's also common to find the powder all gunked together not pouring out of the cartridge... Odd - glad you didn't get hurt.

I fired casings with bullets and powder taken out - just to experience what the squib would sound and feel like.

[Vioman]

The bullet did not travel down the barrel. It's like the round just seperated when the slide was pulled back, leaving the bullet in the chamber and ejected the rest. No dents on the primer, and the firing pin was not broken. Gun shot fine the rest of that day. One of the mysteries in life I guess.

[Createdeemcee]

Sounds like the slide caught it when you charged it, could have been an odd sized bullet from storage. What ever the case that round was loose from its casing when you put it in.

[Dean1962]

Chances are that the cannelure was never tight enough around the bullet, which allowed enough moisture into the casing to render the primer and/or powder useless. Then, when you pulled the slide, the bullet easily separated because the when the casing hit the extracter, which forced it sideways, the bullet was still partially in the chamber. Because it was loose, it fell out, leaving the powder everywhere, the casing empty, and the bullet still in the chamber.

[22.5degrees]

A live round detonating outside the chamber is harmless. Results are similar to that of a firecracker. Obviously burnt and unburnt powder can ener your eyes. However you SHOULD be wearing eye pro anyway so not much of a concern.

22.5

[redhawk_six]

A live round detonating outside the chamber is harmless. Results are similar to that of a firecracker. Obviously burnt and unburnt powder can ener your eyes. However you SHOULD be wearing eye pro anyway so not much of a concern.

22.5

Where do you get your info? A round detonating outside the chamber is not harmless.

["Royal-with-Cheese"]

A live round detonating outside the chamber is harmless. Results are similar to that of a firecracker. Obviously burnt and unburnt powder can ener your eyes. However you SHOULD be wearing eye pro anyway so not much of a concern.

22.5

wouldn't that leave you with two threats?
because you could get hit by the bullet or the casing!? or not?

[Createdeemcee]

http://nas3.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/054671000/54671725/pix133368359.jpg

Sweet Gun by the way. Is this what yours looks like?? Is yours the 6 version ? Would be p 210-6

[StukaJr]

wouldn't that leave you with two threats?
because you could get hit by the bullet or the casing!? or not?

This is not personal experience gathered information - just something I heard and learned in my High School Physics...

Casing is lighter than bullet, so unchambered the casing is most likely to become a projectile and bullet to stay in place... Depending on the powder charge - even an assault rifle cartridge will toss "projectiles" a few dozen feet, not more... The bottom base of the cartridge is also likely to separate at its thinnest place - or a cartridge can blow out a gash in the casing otherwise keeping in place (which happens majority of the time with military ammo)... Military cartridges usually employ different methods of securing the bullet in place, often sealing it for long storage life... Either way - there is still some pressure accumulated - it's however, nowhere near what chambered cartridge would achieve...

If a bullet is out of the casing and the powder ignites - it will burn, not explode... So if the flakes burn on the skin - it may be less than pleasant. But even if the primer sets off on the loose powder - it will simply blow it away since smokeless powder takes more than a spark to set off. This was done on Mythbusters...

Cartridge blowing up outside the chamber is less than pleasant - fortunately, it hasn't happen to me... There is a possibility of taking tiny bits and flecks of metal to the face and getting tattooed with gunpowder (like wild ingians used to do). :D Inspect failed cartridges in open hand - or best, don't inspect them at all :D People have gotten hurt by disassembling cartridges - it's in my reloading manual.

[Vioman]

http://nas3.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/054671000/54671725/pix133368359.jpg

Sweet Gun by the way. Is this what yours looks like?? Is yours the 6 version ? Would be p 210-6

No. I was shooting with a standard danish military P210. Looks like the one pictured, but with plastic grips fitted.

My concern was a discharge at the moment I racked the slide back, creating a Kb! while the round was partially chambered. Those P210's need a loaded chamber indicator or I just have to count the shots fired from now on. Heh.

[Hollis]

IMHO, more information was/is needed. We can all speculate, but who knows. The best arguement could still be the looser.

Something seems to be missing, if the bullet was so loose, when it was loaded in to the magazine why was it not noticed then, or fall off before then.


Was the case the wrong case, I have seen cases not get sorted properly, there are lots of 9mm variants, and cases deminsions are vary in lenght. Was a bogus case used, That still would not effect the over all cartridge length, that is set at the bullet seating portion of the "loading" process. If a shorter case was used, say a 380, the bullet would have been barely seated. Powder needs a closed space to build up pressure and go boom.

Problem would be in a 380 case, is chambering, the case would keep going in to the chamber until the bullet hit the rifling or the mouth of the case hits, end of chamber. 9mm cases seat on the mouth of the case. Unless the extractor held the 380 case back.

Again as you can see with out the Case, bullet, pistol, etc, the cause is all speculation. I would have to play with a 9mm round loaded on a 380 case and then, I may not have the same pistol to compare how the pistol would have managed the off case.

[Vioman]

Cartridge was Danish NATO military 9mm FMJ made by AMA. These rounds are sealed and made in 2002.
We suspect the bullet was loose when loaded in the magazine, but what puzzles us are the fact that it did not fire when the trigger was pulled.

[Hollis]

Cartridge was Danish NATO military 9mm FMJ made by AMA. These rounds are sealed and made in 2002.
We suspect the bullet was loose when loaded in the magazine, but what puzzles us are the fact that it did not fire when the trigger was pulled.


Obviously something is amiss, Maybe a bad bullet (wrong diameter), weird case, without the components, I guess it will be one of those unanswered questions.

[Young-kiwi]

Obviously something is amiss, Maybe a bad bullet (wrong diameter), weird case, without the components, I guess it will be one of those unanswered questions.

Guns and Ammo do weird things. Sometimes you never figure it out.
In my experience in about 80% of the failures I've had, I've guessed at what the problem might have been later. At the time I've been way too busy with remedials to concern myself with why it happened.

[22.5degrees]

Where do you get your info? A round detonating outside the chamber is not harmless.

Try a book called "Hatcher's notebook" Written by one Major General US army retired Julian S Hatcher. He is THE founding authority on interior and exterior ballistics. try pages 187 an 188 for his explaination regarding discharged rounds outside of the action.

I hope all your knowledge isn't based off the PAL course....Who knows what a lot of the instructors are teaching, it sure as hell isn't valid or useful information.

22.5

[redhawk_six]

Read the posts of the other people who responded to your comment, i dont care what a damn book says, a round discharging outside the chamber is NOT HARMLESS!

[Hollis]

Read the posts of the other people who responded to your comment, i dont care what a damn book says, a round discharging outside the chamber is NOT HARMLESS!


I am with you on that one from personal experience. I was a R/O at a Cowboy shoot, Another shooter was loading a Henry's rifle. for some reason, one round slammed into another and a a round discharged, I caught a piece of brass case in my hand (minor), the shooter got a bigger chunk in his bicep, he had to go to the hospital on that one. It expaned the magazine tube outwards too.

[Createdeemcee]

I am with you on that one from personal experience. I was a R/O at a Cowboy shoot, Another shooter was loading a Henry's rifle. for some reason, one round slammed into another and a a round discharged, I caught a piece of brass case in my hand (minor), the shooter got a bigger chunk in his bicep, he had to go to the hospital on that one. It expaned the magazine tube outwards too.

I had an issue with a henry .45 last weekend. shot it once stroked the leaver and had a hot case on my shoulder for 1 minute or so. Have a mean a$$ burn from it.

[Upfrontreporting]

Vioman,

Why don't you contact Ama and tell them about this incident, I'm sure they would like to know about the product-failure.

[22.5degrees]

Read the posts of the other people who responded to your comment, i dont care what a damn book says, a round discharging outside the chamber is NOT HARMLESS!

I don't doubt its not harmless. a bad choice of words on my part. However a detonation outside of a firearm is not something to be overly concerned about. Another poster mentioned an incident involving a lever action rifle where one round managed to detonate another INSIDE the magazine tube. This is definitely more serious. The magazine tube provides some support for the casing and the expanding gasses which increases the overall strength of the propellent gasses. The magazine tube is acting in the same manner as a barrel, without the added benefit of a closed breach and the strength required to force all that energy in the same direction.

The fact that you haven't even bothered to investigate the literature in which my information stems from nor the credentials behind the author who wrote it tells me that you are neither a serious shooter nor open minded in respect to topics in which you are obviously inexperienced to comment on without basing your information on myths and personal beliefs.


Whichever way you look at it, a detonation of any kind outside of a firearm is not something most folks enjoy. I prefer to be the one who determines when and where my projectiles are to be sent.



22.5