Article about Blackwater employees

[shrek]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/04/01/civilian.deaths.ap/index.html

[Red]

sad,RIP and may the spirts guide you on your final journey

[sethen]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/04/01/civilian.deaths.ap/index.html

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/05/ma_365_01.html

[George W. Bush]

"I don't agree with what's going on over there," he said. "The people over there don't want us there."

Why'd CNN have to sneak this **** in there? **** 'em.

[sethen]

"The Charlotte Observer" published the horrific photos of American contractors that had been ambushed by rocket propelled grenade. It was said that after the initial action there was still signs of life, untill a boy came with gasoline and set the suburbans on fire. The bodies were charred and badly burned. One corpse lacks a head, left arm and both legs. They had been hung both on one side of the bride at an entrance. For anyone who saw them it is reminiscent of Mogadishu, Somalia. Don't let these deter you, I was on the fence about the war but Fallujah should pay the "Price of Grozny" for their treachery.
Let this be a turning point, the gloves are off now!!!!!! :fork:

If you are contracting tell em you want a .45 and an M-14!!!!!! Don't go over there with the P@ssy weapons like 9mm pistols and .223 rifles. You will be outshot by a much larger, mob with higher caliber weapons. Get a Plate holder, nij level IV plates and pasgt helmet and flack vest. Nomex gloves, nomax coveralls and nomax gloves, kevlar socks and a blast shield for the helmet!!!! ANYONE taking a contract better do a lot of planning and spend some of the earned money on equipment and ammo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[George W. Bush]

kevlar socks eh?

[MK133]

Well, came accross this article with names of 3 of the victims, the families released the names

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040402/ap_on_re_mi_ea/civilian_deaths&cid=540&ncid=1480

By CONNIE MABIN, Associated Press Writer

WILLOUGHBY, Ohio - Two Army veterans and a former Navy SEAL were among four American contractors killed in Iraq (news - web sites), their bodies mutilated and dragged through the streets.

Family members and a spokeswoman said Thursday that Jerko 'Jerry' Zovko, 32, Michael Teague, 38, and Scott Helvenston, 38, died with another civilian Wednesday after they were hit by rocket-propelled grenades in a rebel ambush. The victims worked for Blackwater Security Consulting, one of five subsidiaries of Blackwater USA based in North Carolina.


Zovko's mother said she and her husband had suspected their son might be among the dead, but their fears were confirmed Thursday morning when the president of Blackwater USA knocked on their door.


"It was the hardest day of my life," Donna Zovko said during an interview in her suburban Cleveland home.


"Jerry was a man with a principle, an idea," his mother said. "He loved people. He wanted the world to be without borders, for everybody to be free and safe."


Zovko's family wouldn't say whether he was married or had children.


"My brother was an exceptional individual," Tom Zovko said. "He did what he thought was right."


Jerry Zovko joined the Army in 1991 at age 19. He spoke five languages fluently — English, Croatian, Spanish, Russian and Arabic. He was a member of the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg in North Carolina, Tom Zovko said.


Teague, of Clarksville, Tenn., was a 12-year Army veteran who earned a Bronze Star for service in Afghanistan (news - web sites) and also served in Panama and Grenada, his wife, Rhonda, said in a statement.


She called her husband a "proud father, soldier and American. ... I, his son Brandon and his friends and family will miss him without measure."


Teague had worked in the security business since he left the Army six years ago, but he joined Blackwater Security only two months ago, WTVF-TV of Nashville reported.


A third victim was identified as Helvenston by a family spokeswoman who said the family would comment further on Friday.


Helvenston lived in Leesburg, Fla., before joining the Navy when he was 17. He served with the Navy SEALs for 12 years and later worked as a fitness promoter, starting a company called Amphibian Athletics. He also was an actor and stunt man for movies including "G.I. Jane," according to a company Web site.


"It's not only horrible when someone dies who you know and respect, but in the way it happened, it makes you sick," said Mark Burnett, producer of the 2002 reality series "Combat Missions," in which Helvenston appeared.


Jubilant Iraqi residents dragged two of the charred corpses through the streets and strung them up on a bridge, acts the U.S. government denounced as "horrific."


The names of the four victims were not officially released because all family members had yet to be notified, U.S. officials said.


Blackwater, based in Moyock, N.C., provides security training and guard services to customers around the world. President Gary Jackson and two other company leaders are former Navy SEAL commandos.





The company declined to comment beyond a statement that acknowledged it was a government subcontractor providing security for the delivery of food in the Fallujah area.


Navy SEAL of 12 years Stephen "Scott" Helvenston's website http://www.sealtraining.com/index.php?screen=resume

He was in Combat Missions, Youngest-ever graduate of BUD/S (17 years old), Served as Free Fall instructor for four years.


RIP Bro

[SeanR]

Damn, it hurts even more when you kind of recognize the name. He was also the youngest Navy Seal ever I believe. By recognize, I mean just from some websites and stuff.

Damn straight,
RIP

[Yard Ape]

I was on the fence about the war but Fallujah should pay the "Price of Grozny" for their treachery. This would only increase the number of terrorists. Remember that the "Price of Grozny" has cost much for the Russian civilain.

[George W. Bush]

Holy ****ing ****. I had no idea he was the guy who did COMBAT MISSIONS

[hood]

The whole ordeal is pretty sad. At least 2 Army SF and 1 Navy SEAL being killed in that way. sethen, having better weapons in the car isn't going to help you not die from multiple RPG rounds flying at your cars. They were just extremely unlucky and overpowered. Not much they could have done other than have a tank instead of a truck.

[Yard Ape]

There are a lot of armoured rovers out there. More of these are needed in Iraq. M1114, VBL, S55, MOWAG Eagle, etc. Probably not RPG proof, but definately more resistant than Chevy, Nissan, GMC, etc.

[dacanadianbomb]

Sad that people die anywhere really.

I am not an soldier,never have been one either , so please no " you dont know what its like " flames,( not assuming I will be flamed , but seems to hit everywhere these days in this forum )

Contractors will always be easier targets. Besides the fact that I cant imagine any physically carried armour would have saved the people in the vehicle.

No matter how much armour , how many guns, wether large caliber or .223, when you have twenty people around you it doesnt really matter.

Sad stuff really.

[Yard Ape]

Zovko's mother said she and her husband had suspected their son might be among the dead, but their fears were confirmed Thursday morning when the president of Blackwater USA knocked on their door.I have a lot of respect for a company president that takes personal responsibility like that.

[spyguy]

To get what i think is a better idea of what it's like for those guys you can check out this link to an article in esquire magazine:
http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?item_id=366991

the article paints a picture i'd never imagine existed before i read it. It's not pro or anti war, so dont worry about that. it just talks explicitly about the lives and role "hired guns" play in iraq. the journalist actually goes in with a convoy it's just really a great article. i've posted this before but i didn't put the link so check it out, i can't that stress that anymore than i already have. it's good

[HELEX]

"I don't agree with what's going on over there," he said. "The people over there don't want us there."

Why'd CNN have to sneak this **** in there? f*** 'em.

Because it is true?

[Yard Ape]

"I don't agree with what's going on over there," he said. "The people over there don't want us there."

Why'd CNN have to sneak this **** in there? f*** 'em.

Because it is true?Yes, a part-time employee did say that. So, why don't they have a quote from the janitor as well? The article may aswell have quoted Joe Onthestreet.

[mustamato]

Scott Helvenston? That narcissistic dude probably died as he wanted too, now
he ended up in the history books and all. RIP though.


To get what i think is a better idea of what it's like for those guys you can check out this link to an article in esquire magazine:
http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?item_id=366991

the article paints a picture i'd never imagine existed before i read it. It's not pro or anti war, so dont worry about that. it just talks explicitly about the lives and role "hired guns" play in iraq. the journalist actually goes in with a convoy it's just really a great article. i've posted this before but i didn't put the link so check it out, i can't that stress that anymore than i already have. it's good

Excellent article. For those of you that has not read it, read it.

[Gordon]

Wasn't going to post here, other than offering my total condolenses.

RIP to these guys and everyone who's given their lives in Iraq trying to sort it out, and anywhere else, in any era.


I was on the fence about the war but Fallujah should pay the "Price of Grozny" for their treachery.
Let this be a turning point, the gloves are off now!!!!!! :fork:

If you are contracting tell em you want a .45 and an M-14!!!!!! Don't go over there with the P@ssy weapons like 9mm pistols and .223 rifles. You will be outshot by a much larger, mob with higher caliber weapons. Get a Plate holder, nij level IV plates and pasgt helmet and flack vest. Nomex gloves, nomax coveralls and nomax gloves, kevlar socks and a blast shield for the helmet!!!! ANYONE taking a contract better do a lot of planning and spend some of the earned money on equipment and ammo!!!!!!!!!!!!

But that's just silly, are you saying because of this episode in Iraq you have changed your stance on the war?

What about all the people who have and will sacrifice their lives?

Also, don't you think these people in the PMC business are well armed already. What do you think they're carrying .. spud guns?

I mean, I don't know anything where this kinda business is concerned, but I do know, for sure, that these guys are as armed as they can be, and that's that. Do you really think you're gonna be able to convince anyone, who's ex-military, to go into Iraq right now without carrying what they need?

Do you thnik is is a kinda step by step thing?

Oh .. well, the guys before me brought a riot baton and ran into problems, so i'm gonna take some rubber bullets.

Oh they ran into problems too, so i'm gonna take a pistol.

Damn, they ran into problems too, i'm gonna take an sub machine gun.

etc ..

Do you really think thats how it works?

Sorry if i insulted anyone here, didn't mean to. I have the utmost respect for all soldiers and PMC people working in any area around the globe.

[exoninja]

I recognize Scott Helvenston when I saw his picture on the news website.

If I'm not wrong, he's the one on Combat Missions with a big bad temper.

I feel extremely saddened for this incident, especially for him.

[ibstolidude]

"I don't agree with what's going on over there," he said. "The people over there don't want us there."

Why'd CNN have to sneak this **** in there? f*** 'em.

Because it is true?

I want to be certain of what you are saying.

Are you saying the majority of Iraqis do NOT want US presence in Iraq, right now - today.

[SABER 2-3]

Easy Dude...wait until you can see the whites of his eyes.

[hood]

"I don't agree with what's going on over there," he said. "The people over there don't want us there."

Why'd CNN have to sneak this **** in there? f*** 'em.

Because it is true?

I want to be certain of what you are saying.

Are you saying the majority of Iraqis do NOT want US presence in Iraq, right now - today.


I'm not sure it's worth arguing this point, as you could ask a large number of people in the US and they'd say the same thing. If you see a large group of people dancing on our fallen, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that they don't like us. Nobody wants foreign troops in their country, particularly for an extended period of time. The Iraqi people want the outcome, they just don't want the process. I don't worry about such things, as a firm withdrawal date has been set and it's getting closer every day.

[Tane Angle]

Hood said

The Iraqi people want the outcome, they just don't want the process.

Sheer wisdom.

[Argyll]

I recognize Scott Helvenston when I saw his picture on the news website.

If I'm not wrong, he's the one on Combat Missions with a big bad temper.

I feel extremely saddened for this incident, especially for him.


That hit me like a punch in the face.......I liked the guy,I feel sick now,really physically sick,knowing a face and the fate is not nice.


HELEX you're starting to really get on my **** about this,do us all a favour and stay the Fok out of these threads about the Blackwater guys,coz I'm not in the fokin mood today.

[front]

"Are you saying the majority of Iraqis do NOT want US presence in Iraq, right now - today."

I believe it. I believe that the majority of Iraqis do not want US presence in any shape or form. I believe they just want to be left alone to determine their own future.

I also believe that the majority of Iraqis believe that US led U.N. sanctions over the last decade caused more suffering in that country than ever before and strengthened Saddams hold over the country. I do not find it hard to believe that. The Iraqis (Sunnis, Shi'ites, whatever) do not consider the US a "friend" and realise that US presence means US influence which they do not want or need.

It's not hard to figure that out.

cheers

front

[xjym2002]

RIP. Feel much more sick when know the name.

[XASA]

New York Times
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 2, 2004
SECURITY
Private U.S. Guards Take Big Risks for Right Price
By JAMES DAO

MOYOCK, N.C., April 1 — Nestled inconspicuously amid the pinelands and horse farms of northeastern North Carolina lies a small but increasingly important part of the nation's campaign to stabilize Iraq.

Here, at the 6,000-acre training ground of Blackwater U.S.A., scores of former military commandos, police officers and civilians are prepared each month to join the lucrative but often deadly work of providing security for corporations and governments in the toughest corners of the globe.

On Wednesday, four employees of a Blackwater unit — most of them former American military Special Operations personnel — were killed in an ambush in the central Iraqi city of Falluja, their bodies mutilated and dragged through the streets by chanting crowds.

The scene, captured in horrific detail by television and newspaper cameras, shocked the nation and outraged the tightly knit community of current and former Special Operations personnel. But it also shed new light on the rapidly growing and loosely regulated industry of private paramilitary companies like Blackwater that are replacing government troops in conflicts from South America to Africa to the Middle East.

"This is basically a new phenomenon: corporatized private military services doing the front-line work soldiers used to do," said Peter W. Singer, a national security fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington who has written a book on the industry, "Corporate Warriors" (Cornell University Press, 2003).

"And they're not out there screening passengers at the airports," Mr. Singer said. "They're taking mortar and sniper fire."

The Associated Press identified three of the victims as Jerry Zovko, 32, an Army veteran from Willoughby, Ohio; Mike Teague, a 38-year-old Army veteran from Clarksville, Tenn.; and Scott Helvenston, 38, a veteran of the Navy.

Blackwater declined to identify the dead men, but issued a statement: "We grieve today for the loss of our colleagues and we pray for their families. The graphic images of the unprovoked attack and subsequent heinous mistreatment of our friends exhibits the extraordinary conditions under which we voluntarily work to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people."

Though there have been private militaries since the dawn of war, the modern corporate version got its start in the 1990's after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

At that time, many nations were sharply reducing their military forces, leaving millions of soldiers without employment. Many of them went into business doing what they knew best: providing security or training others to do the same.

The proliferation of ethnic conflicts and civil wars in places like the Balkans, Haiti and Liberia provided employment for the personnel of many new companies. Business grew rapidly after the Sept. 11 attacks prompted corporate executives and government officials to bolster their security overseas.

But it was the occupation of Iraq that brought explosive growth to the young industry, security experts said. There are now dozens, perhaps hundreds of private military concerns around the world. As many as two dozen companies, employing as many as 15,000 people, are working in Iraq.

They are providing security details for diplomats, private contractors involved in reconstruction, nonprofit organizations and journalists, security experts said. The private guards also protect oil fields, banks, residential compounds and office buildings.

Though many of the companies are American, others from Britain, South Africa and elsewhere are providing security in Iraq. Among them is Global Risks Strategies, a British company that hired Fijian troops to help protect armored shipments of the new Iraqi currency around the country.

Blackwater is typical of the new breed. Founded in 1998 by former Navy Seals, the company says it has prepared tens of thousands of security personnel to work in hot spots around the world. At its complex in North Carolina, it has shooting ranges for high-powered weapons, buildings for simulating hostage rescue missions and a bunkhouse for trainees.

The Blackwater installation is so modern and well-equipped that Navy Seals stationed at the Little Creek Naval Amphibious Base in Norfolk, Va., routinely use it, military officials said. So do police units from around the country, who come to Blackwater for specialized training.

"It's world class," said Chris Amos, a spokesman for the Norfolk Police Department.

In Iraq, Blackwater personnel guard L. Paul Bremer III, the head of the civilian administration, among their other jobs. Around Baghdad, the Blackwater guards, most in their 30's and 40's, are easily identified, with their heavily muscled upper bodies, closely cropped hair or shaven heads and wrap-around sunglasses. Some even wear Blackwater T-shirts. Like Special Operations Forces, they use walkie-talkie earpieces with curled wires disappearing beneath their collars and carry light-weight automatic weapons.

In the northern city of Mosul, where Mr. Bremer met with about 130 carefully vetted Iraqis on Thursday, Blackwater guards maintained a heavy presence, standing along the walls facing the Iraqi guests with their rifles cradled. More than once, Iraqis and Western reporters moving forward to take their seats in the hall were abruptly challenged by the guards, with warnings that they would be ejected if they resisted.

The company also received a five-year Navy contract in 2002 worth $35.7 million to train Navy personnel in force protection, shipboard security, search-and-seizure techniques, and armed sentry duties, Pentagon officials said.

The rapid growth of the private security industry has come about in part because of the shrinkage of the American military: there are simply fewer military personnel available to protect officials, diplomats and bases overseas, security experts say.

To meet the rising demand, the companies are offering yearly salaries ranging from $100,000 to nearly $200,000 to entice senior military Special Operations forces to switch careers. Assignments are paying from a few hundred dollars to as much as $1,000 a day, military officials said.

Gen. Wayne Downing, a retired chief of the United States Special Operations Command, said that on a recent trip to Baghdad he ran into several former Delta Force and Seal Team Six senior noncommissioned officers who were working for private security companies.

"It was like a reunion," General Downing said.

Sheriff Susan Johnson of Currituck County, N.C., where the entrance to Blackwater is situated, said several of her deputies had been lured away by the company to work overseas.

"It's tough to keep them when they can earn as much in one month there as they can in a year here," Sheriff Johnson said.

But critics say the rapid growth of the industry raises troubling concerns. There is little regulation of the quality of training or recruitment by private companies, they say. The result may be inexperienced, poorly prepared and weakly led units playing vital roles in combat situations. Even elite former commandos may not be well trained for every danger, those critics say.

Representative Jan Schakowsky, Democrat of Illinois, has also argued that the United States' growing use of private military companies hides the financial, personal and political costs of military operations overseas, since the concerns face little public scrutiny.

In particular, Ms. Schakowsky has objected to administration plans to increase the number of private military contractors in Colombia, where three American civilians working for a Northrup Grumman subsidiary have been held hostage by Marxist rebels for more than a year. The three were on a mission to search for cocaine laboratories and drug planes when they were captured.

"I continue to oppose the use of military contractors who are not subject to the same kind of scrutiny and accountability as U.S. soldiers," Ms. Schakowsky said last week. "When things go wrong for these contractors, they and their families have been shamefully forgotten by their American employers."


Eric Schmitt, in Washington, and John F. Burns, in Baghdad, contributed reporting for this article.



Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top

[JiJoMacLE45]

Front & Helex, this is not a thread for you to start incessant rants and go about stirring up more ****. These four men and hundreds others like them have selflessly given their lives to this cause. Don't tarnish their bravery and sacrifice with your political leanings. Take heed the word of the mods, shut the fvck up or go away.

[shrek]

I will post this wherever HELEX and those like him post until I see some response!

Ahh HELEX my boy (or semblance there of). We had a boy on our team like you one time. Always had something to say, and what he said was always cutting or derogatory. He lasted a month in country, his picture has been posted by me several times, we sent him home, that’s right, we sent him home. It’s possible friends! However, you know, there was one big difference between you and him. He had the balls to look you in the eye when he said the things that he said. He would go toe to toe with you, and I respected that.
You, on the other hand, I do not respect! I can see a picture of you so very clearly. Young, not very handsome (or pretty, whichever you prefer), never really had women friends, frustrated at the world and desperately needing something or someone to take it out on. You may have tried to be in the military or even told the people on this site that you have been, I doubt it, the way you go on I would have to say that the military hurt you in some way, your hatred for it seeps out of your words.
You’re kind are not happy unless they have made someone else unhappy, at least as unhappy they are. Therefore, here’s what I propose HELEX and all like you: Leave. Just don’t come back!

Ok, real world, we all know that people like HELEX never leave, that’s the worst part about them.



THIS IS FOR EVERYBODY ELSE. PROVE TO ME THAT YOU ALL HAVE THE BALLS AND INTELLIGENCE TO BEAT THIS MONKEY AND OTHERS JUST LIKE HIM, PLEASE, SHOW ME THAT YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES!!!


From this point forward, whenever you see a post by these pieces of trash, IGNORE THEM! That doesn’t mean answer them once, then quit, It means don’t answer them at all. Let’s have conversations around them. If they post and it pisses you off then they have won my friends. Take a breath, skip their posts and answer the last post that was on the real subject. Currently we are the food that feeds these ass monkeys, stop feeding them.

If this erks you, sorry, perhaps I’m talking to you!

Shrek

[Trigger]

Amen, shrek.
...but did you have to call 'em monkeys? I may have to change my avatar now.
Trig

[HELEX]

Well, this is becomming more and more funny every minute. rofl

I never had a Problem to share my opinion with someone who is standing right in front of me and I think im not that bad looking.... ;)
I was only doing the time I had to at the military, and had the Option to have a officers career. But I do not like to take Orders.

If you cant stand a differing opinion, you have my compassion :petting:

[NcDeuce]

Well, this is becomming more and more funny every minute. rofl

I never had a Problem to share my opinion with someone who is standing right in front of me and I think im not that bad looking.... ;)
I was only doing the time I had to at the military, and had the Option to have a officers career. But I do not like to take Orders.

If you cant stand a differing opinion, you have my compassion :petting:

It is sad you can find delight at this time and in this thread. So you could have been an officer but you did not like taking orders? Something doesn't add up...I think you're posting a bunch of horse manure. And if your posts in any, way, shape or form reflects your service to your Armed Forces...you were a poor soldier and served in the company of poor leaders.