Wolf Blitzer vs Norman Finklestein on Israel-Palestine conflict

[raisetheissue]

Debate on the Israel-Palestine conflict. simple question:

Good points in this debate, who has the better arguement.
You decide!

http://www.youtube.com/v/2-8aTGnjHnI

Thanks

[Kak]

Wow, I watch Wolf Blitzer on CNN every day, and I'm not used to hearing him talk like that, and looking so much younger than he does now. He seemed to have (and probably still does) a very strong pro-Israeli bias in this video.

I think they both made good points. However, while I'm quite often not a fan of the way Israel deals with the Palestine issue and would love to see a Palestinian state, I feel that it isn't entirely accurate to believe that Israel ending its occupation of Palestinian territory wouldn't pose a potential security threat to the state of Israel. While I think it would be the right thing to do, and it what Israel should work towards doing, there is certainly the potential that it would make things much worse for Israeli security. I also didn't agree with some of Blitzer's statements about Zionism.

[Smersh]

finkelstein made some very good points, and sadly the situation has not changed since the time this was filmed.

blitzer is only a isreal-apolgizer. in this clip.

[Tebryn]

Well in this extract Blitzer does not answer the question so it's quite difficult to make an opinion... :roll:

[Macabi]

finkelstein made some very good points, and sadly the situation has not changed since the time this was filmed.

blitzer is only a isreal-apolgizer. in this clip.

Things have changed.

The second intifada brought terror of an unknown scale to that day. Proving that the Palestinians could inflict mayor damage to the Israeli's.

Also, Israel has totally pulled back from the Gaza-strip. The current government of Israel has stated it wants a Palestinian state and is working towards it, as you hopefully knew.

[Givati575]

Wow, I watch Wolf Blitzer on CNN every day, and I'm not used to hearing him talk like that, and looking so much younger than he does now. He seemed to have (and probably still does) a very strong pro-Israeli bias in this video.

I think they both made good points. However, while I'm quite often not a fan of the way Israel deals with the Palestine issue and would love to see a Palestinian state, I feel that it isn't entirely accurate to believe that Israel ending its occupation of Palestinian territory wouldn't pose a potential security threat to the state of Israel. While I think it would be the right thing to do, and it what Israel should work towards doing, there is certainly the potential that it would make things much worse for Israeli security. I also didn't agree with some of Blitzer's statements about Zionism.

pro israeli bias? Wolf Blitzer is Jewish you know......


finklesteins points are all terrible, although we don't have to worry about the palastinians invading and destroying us, we hav eto worry about them coming into our cities and malls and blowing themselves up killing our civilians.

[raisetheissue]

Finklestein answered the question and I think used the Israeli Ambassador's quote very effectively in the debate. Would Israel face a security risk if there was a Palestinian state? I think that is what he is trying to get at.

[Klatuu]

Blitzer makes a poor argument, and history has shown that Finklestein's "no threat" argument" was just about as incorrect as any argument could be.

Where either gets credibility on the topic sufficient to warrant being televised is not on display in this clip. In fact, other that "sounding good", I can't see why either would be consulted in the first place.

[raisetheissue]

Finklestein did not just make up this arguement, Israeli ambassador said "Palestine is as big as a threat to us as Luxenbourg is to the Soviet Union" he said it himself. These are not Finklestein's words.

[RP]

Finklestein did not just make up this arguement, Israeli ambassador said "Palestine is as big as a threat to us as Luxenbourg is to the Soviet Union" he said it himself. These are not Finklestein's words.

It might have been correct (and it wasn't) in 1980, but today the situation is compeletly different.

[raisetheissue]

Very true.

[coolguy120]

Wolf Blitzer is the worst debater Ive heard, ever. And Finklstein is wrong on everything but has better arguing skills, and will appeal to people who do not know their stuff.

[OttawaLoneWolf]

Israel pulled out of GAZA, now someone is shooting at Israel from " GAZA" with rockets everday.

I say there is a major secruity issue.

[IDF-Godzilla]

We pull back from the occupied territorys for them to establish their own state, and in return we get Qassam rockets, living in the north of Israel, i now understand what kind of suffer and danger the people of Sderot face near the Gaza-Israeli border.
Instead of sitting peacfully on a chair and wait untill the evil zionists will leave their lands peacfully, they use force and say that force drives the Israelis away, then complain to mister Kofi Annan (idiot, hate you!) that they are beeing slaughterd by the Israeli F-16 jets.
If you keep on picking to the dog evantualy he WILL bite your head off, be warned, wait, they already had been, again, again and again...
:bash:

[inche yao?]

We pull back from the occupied territorys for them to establish their own state, and in return we get Qassam rockets, living in the north of Israel, i now understand what kind of suffer and danger the people of Sderot face near the Gaza-Israeli border.
Instead of sitting peacfully on a chair and wait untill the evil zionists will leave their lands peacfully, they use force and say that force drives the Israelis away, then complain to mister Kofi Annan (idiot, hate you!) that they are beeing slaughterd by the Israeli F-16 jets.
If you keep on picking to the dog evantualy he WILL bite your head off, be warned, wait, they already had been, again, again and again...
:bash:

I wonder if Palestinians could have had their own air and sea sovereignty with the "pullout". It sort of, hey Palestinians, we give your land back, BUT we get to keep the air, sea, and we get to target some of your Leaders every once in a while ("because of blood on their hands") we keep hearing. Not to mention, we control your water sources AND Imports. But then again, if you misbehave, we demolish your houses and maybe your Olive trees. Pretty soon, we get to throw you into the sea.

I saw this report, used to read about Wolf Blitzer when he was working for the Jerusalem Post before getting on CNN. He was and always will be biased.

[somedude]

Isn't Finkelstein also Jewish?

[raisetheissue]

Yes he is.

Maybe he is a "self hating jew" because he is against the government of Israel:roll:
**sarcasm**

Yao good points.

[weissent]

Isn't Finkelstein also Jewish?

Ethymologically, the name is.

I read Finkelstein's essay "The holocaust industry" a couple of years ago (basically a statement against the claim that Germans are inheritely evil).

Although Finkelstein's stance is widely disputed in German media, I concur in most cases. I think I didn't discover this 'EVIL'-Gene in me yet. Perhaps it's only activated after aquiring a medieval castle with a laboratory (top floor).

Re. the panel: Both orators use a populist approach and I sure would like to see a re-match under contemporary circumstances and premisis. The world has changed a little since...

[alexz]

So looking back at Finklstein statment that the Palestinians will be no
secuity threat to Israel we can see that either he is an idiot or worst yet,
he knew exactly what will happen if they are given the rights to rule
themselves. The reuslt is 1,500 dead Israeli men,women and children
and thousands of others maimed and cripled. I don't think he apologised for
being so wrong, he got more anto Israel as most people that are to shalow to
admit they were wrong.

[raisetheissue]

alex he was repeating the words of an Israeli ambassador.

[weissent]

So looking back at Finklstein statment that the Palestinians will be no
secuity threat to Israel we can see that either he is an idiot or worst yet,
he knew exactly what will happen if they are given the rights to rule
themselves. The result is 1,500 dead Israeli men,women and children
and thousands of others maimed and cripled. I don't think he apologised for
being so wrong, he got more anto Israel as most people that are to shalow to
admit they were wrong.

Just two points (only technicalities):
1.) Is there an officially recognized state called Palestinia these days? (I really don't know...)
2.) Is there something you would call a Palestinian army today?

There's a whole bunch of organisations, para-military and otherwise on Palestinian-side (which haven't been there during the time of that interview and by the way have their own individual agendas) and sad as it is (and don't get me wrong here, I mourn the individual victims), 1500 mostly civilian dead don't threat/overthrow a state.

It is sad, but it is true; Israel is under attack; not by Nations, but by Organisations.

I.e. the whole premise this interview was based upon is crap anyway.

[Macabi]

[inche yao]I wonder if Palestinians could have had their own air and sea sovereignty with the "pullout". It sort of, hey Palestinians, we give your land back, BUT we get to keep the air, sea, and we get to target some of your Leaders every once in a while ("because of blood on their hands") we keep hearing. Not to mention, we control your water sources AND Imports. But then again, if you misbehave, we demolish your houses and maybe your Olive trees. Pretty soon, we get to throw you into the sea.

Thats a reason to fire rockets on civillians?
It all sounds so easy, but it isn't... And you clearly have no knowledge on the security issue involving industrial ports, harbors etc. in Gaza. They would be a smuggling paradise without Israeli surveilance from the outside (not the inside, there are no Israeli's in Gaza). The Palestinians voted for the Hamas as government, a terrorist organisation responsable for... terror, suicide bombings etc. they support terror, therefore you cannot give them the free hand, to controll area's that could phisically effect other area's, like Israel.
Also your last two sentences are crap. Misbehaving is in their case a suicide-bombing, but ofcourse thats only a naughty act. As to throwing them into the sea... You've got your party's twisted up on that one.:cantbeli:

[NimDod]

Just two points (only technicalities):
1.) Is there an officially recognized state called Palestinia these days? (I really don't know...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine
UN Representation
The PLO gained observer status at the UN General Assembly in 1974 (General Assembly resolution 3237). Acknowledging the proclamation of the State of Palestine, the UN redesignated this observer status as belonging to Palestine in 1988 (General Assembly resolution 43/177.) In July 1998, the General Assembly adopted a new resolution (52/250) conferring upon Palestine additional rights and privileges, including the right to participate in the general debate held at the start of each session of the General Assembly, the right of reply, the right to co-sponsor resolutions and the right to raise points of order on Palestinian and Middle East issues. By this resolution, "seating for Palestine shall be arranged immediately after non-member States and before the other observers." This resolution was adopted by a vote of 124 in favor, 4 against (Israel, USA, Marshall Islands, Micronesia) and 10 abstentions.



2.) Is there something you would call a Palestinian army today?

the Palestinians have several security forces (not including all the different terror organizations). each group is loyal to someone else and its hard to tell today what part of the Palestinian forces are PLO and what part are Hamas.
Arafat made it this way so no one could ever get enugh power in order to take over.

you can try looking up the different organizations in Wikipedia, but there are many groups out there so its gonna take you a while.

[alexz]

alex he was repeating the words of an Israeli ambassador.

He is using the ambassador words to prove his own point not to negate it.
As far Israeli politians are concerned, they desided that bringing
a blood thirsty murderer with thousands of his crew, arming them
and setteling them 10 miles from Israel is a great idea.
My dream is that they will face charges for their crimes that cost 1,500
inncoent Israelis their lives.

[raisetheissue]

About the civillians: Look at the pic below. Is this true?



http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/img/photos/latuff/latuff_norm_says_1.gif
(http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1880762)