airborne jump with molle gear?

[MolleMan]

allright im just wondering if any soldiers ever do an airborne jump with molle gear. its a great system but the rucksack and assault pack when attached arent that sturdy when put together and i would think they would just break apart from the sheer shock of the initial jump . im just wondering if any paratroopers jump with it or do they still use the alice lbe and rucks.

[EVIL NADMAN]

Im in the 82nd and I jump the ALICE RUCK like the good ol days. But I carry my molle gear inside of my ruck. We have drop bags for the MOLLE rucks and assault packs. It looks more like a big bag of **** if you catch my drift. Its just a HALO drop bag modified to be used for static line jumping. I have yet to jump my MOLLE Ruck yet. I think the frame should hold up. If the ALICE frame can take it then the Molle should.

[MolleMan]

thnx because when ever i seen guys jump out at the normandy dz and stuff i still see them with alice and since im already in delayed enlistment program i was wondering wich gear to get rid of because i have both the entire molle 2 rifleman set in acu and a complete set of alice and since im going to do my airborne training next year after basic i just was wondering if we did use the molle gear on a combat jump because that crap was expensive

[ABNredleg]

When I went through the Jumpmaster course at Bragg in '91 the cadre was telling me all the problems they were having in getting the MOLLE gear jump certified. Can't remember the details but seem to recall there were durability issues with the ruck. We were still using ALICE ruck and LBEs when I left. The study guide for the jumpmaster course http://http://www.bragg.army.mil/aas/docs/STUDENT STUDY GUIDE JUl 06.pdf (9mb PDF download) does show how to rig a MOLLE ruck so I assume they got the problems worked out. On the other hand, everyone I have talked to says they still jump with ALICE rucks so who the hell knows what the real story is.

[EVIL NADMAN]

The reason we jump the ALICE is cause it is a lot easier. Its a pain in the ass to rig up the MOLLE 2 gear. We are now trying a new thing in my Brigade. YOu wear all of your MOLLE 2 gear on the last webbing of your IBA and rigging your IBA around your parachute harness. Im not sure how that is going to work but I am not looking forward to that at all. And you will be Issued MOLLE and ALICE. First it will be the ALICE and then a little later MOLLE. I didn't recieve my MOLLE issue until I left for Iraq the first time in 2003. But we have been working things out. Also you will be issued an ACH and a regular KPOT. The whole issuing thing is wierd around here.:|

[EVIL NADMAN]

Hey ABNredleg what BN where you in 319th?

[ABNredleg]

Hey ABNredleg what BN where you in 319th?

I served in the 1/319th from '89 to '92.

[Erik2a4]

82d AAS has approved the MOLLE for jumping.

Most BCTs still use the Alice Pack. Not necessarily because it is "better" equipment, but because most people are more familiar with it. JMPI goes by quicker, and less deficiencies. However, if you're putting your IBA and equipment in there, that doesn't leave room for much else besides bullets and water.

I have jumped the Molle with and without both versions of the PDB. It is cumbersome.

What equipment you use is METT-TC dependent. Like everything else. If you are doing an extended mission, then use the largest ruck available (i.e., Molle). If you just need the basics, use an assault pack.

Does that answer the question?

[501 Scout]

The Molle ruck frame has a bad reputation for breaking or cracking on impact, especially with heavy weight. Thats why a lot of guys jump the Alice pack insted.

[Erik2a4]

The Molle ruck frame has a bad reputation for breaking or cracking on impact, especially with heavy weight. Thats why a lot of guys jump the Alice pack insted.

True, but in all fairness the Alice Frame often pops rivets.

What seems to work (last time I checked) for a JFEX was for a soldier's sustainment load (Molle Ruck, Contingency Bag and Deployment Bag) to be AirLanded. That is the equipment you need to sustain. It comes with the ALOC and combat trains.

Paratroopers either jumped the PDB with an Assault Ruck, or an Alice Pack if they had a lot of commo equipment to carry. The Assault Ruck is small enough to be maneuverable with, but still able to carry the immediate combat essentials.

In that case the Alice acts as a PDB.

Make sense? Again, though, it's all tailored to the mission.

[RGRBOX]

Well Isee things haven't changed at all with being on Jump status, and the Division.. The Army gives you all of this TA-50 and you cn't use half of it.. I remember getting issued the CF90 Ruck.. we couldn't jump it either because of stress on the seams.. we sent them back to have them reenforced, and we never go them back.. never used them in the first place.. I remmber jumping the old Flack Vest back in my Bat days,inside the rucksack.. nothing new with the MOLLE2 system.. when is the Army going to learn that the Airborne units need a specialised uniform, and equipment for the Airborne roll.. I prefer the jump bag with the Single Point built into it.. and compression straps to tighten down your load..
remember a friend who was in Vicenza back in the 90's talling me that after a coule of drops that caused some breaks, the CDR desided to not make the Bde jump anymore with the ruck.. they only made buttpack jumps after that.. Sound like a better idea.. jumpng with just the assault pack should be enough. but like said, Terrain Dictates..

[EVIL NADMAN]

They are trying a new way to Jump now with the IBA on. All of your MOLLE pouches on the bottom of the body armor like the old LCE. They are jumping with plates and all it sounds bad.

[Yeoman]

what one thing I've never understood, is why don't you guys revamp those frames you used in nam? (I'm not 100% sure if you guys ever jumped them or not I've never seen anything)
I mean we still use the exact same frame and bag set up here in Canada and I think it's great. we just need a company to make us some more frames as we're starting to run out of them here in Canada.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9677/picture055hm0.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture055hm0.jpg)
that system there, if you know how to pack your stuff right you can easily have room for several days worth of kit, food, water, and ammo stuffed into there.
it's also a one point lowering strap system.
we jump our tac vests on (most of the time) the only thing we've came across was to make sure you have your 2L bottle empty on the jump or you're going to feel like you broke your hip if you land on it.

[Erik2a4]

They are trying a new way to Jump now with the IBA on. All of your MOLLE pouches on the bottom of the body armor like the old LCE. They are jumping with plates and all it sounds bad.

That's not a "new" way. Have fun with your PLFs. And replacing your busted SAPI plates (not to mention busted paratroopers).

Yeoman, unfortunately I'm not familiar with the ruck frame you're talking about, although it sounds like the Alice (which has been around since Moses was a Cpl.).

[WARPIG]

Taylored to the mission seems right. I am oldschool like RGRBOX.. I beleive we were in the 505th at the same time. I stored that fat ass "new" ruck under my bunk as well.

As far as being cumbersome.. try jumping with a mortar squad. My gear weighed more than I did when I jumped.

But, with all the new kit we have been getting, you guys have your work cut out. JMPI must be a frigging nightmare with all the "new" configurations of that gear. I can't figure out why more custom gear isn't being researched for paratroopers. With the ARMY transforming to a lighter more mobile force, the ABN units should have more tailored gear for their missions.

[Yeoman]

it's rather similar. apparently the alice frame was a modified copy of the frame I'm talking about.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5270/ruck20frameat2.th.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ruck20frameat2.jpg)
that's the frame I'm talking about. the bag would go on the bottom, the valise on top. to use it for a jump, you use the pels system, tighten the straps down, put on the snap fasters, set the lowering strap in (we fold ours end over end and put an elastic band on it as a precautionary, not necessary apparently, but better safe then sorry) flip the ruck upside down (like in my pervious pic) and attach onto you. it's a pretty good system in my mind. I haven't broken or bent a frame yet, but I have seen some seriously overloaded rucks snap a frame upon landing (the jumper in question had at least four belts for the gpmg in there)
and it's also alot more comfy then the alice frame. though I've never jumped the alice frame, I wouldn't mind to try it some time (I've heard the PPCLI out west have are starting to use them, but I've never had that confirmed)
Greg

[Erik2a4]

Taylored to the mission seems right. I am oldschool like RGRBOX.. I beleive we were in the 505th at the same time. I stored that fat ass "new" ruck under my bunk as well.

As far as being cumbersome.. try jumping with a mortar squad. My gear weighed more than I did when I jumped.

But, with all the new kit we have been getting, you guys have your work cut out. JMPI must be a frigging nightmare with all the "new" configurations of that gear. I can't figure out why more custom gear isn't being researched for paratroopers. With the ARMY transforming to a lighter more mobile force, the ABN units should have more tailored gear for their missions.

You know how it is; Natick comes up with some "Gee-whiz" stuff, and it takes the test board a good while to test and approve it. Even then, though, it takes time to familiarize the CoC and JMs with the new stuff. For a while there in the Molle phase our Airborne Timeline was ridiculously long because few people knew how to JMPI (and even then we were burning equipment in that was improperly rigged and checked).

There is no one set solution. It all depends upon the mission. As you noted, what Scouts and Mortars need for a jump is VERY different.

Although I believe that most tubes and base plates are now in door bundles.