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kraf001
08-28-2006, 04:50 PM
Full Text of Pres. Ahmadinejad's Letter to German Chancellor

TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad recently forwarded a letter to the German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

This was President Ahmadinejad's second letter to the heads of western states, considering an earlier one he wrote to the US President, George W. Bush.

Unlike his first letter to Bush, President Ahmadinejad in his letter to Merkel, has touched on his country's nuclear issue, where he has stressed that Iran's decision for the acquisition of the nuclear technology is irrevocable.

What follows is the full text of President Ahmadinejad's letter to the German Chancellor.



In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

Her Excellency Angela Merkel

The Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany

Excellency,

Please accept my warmest greetings.

If it had it not been for Germany being a great contributor to progress in science, philosophy, literature, arts and politics;

If it had not been for a more important and positive influence of Germany in international relations and promotion of peace;

Moreover, if it had not been for the persistence of a strong will by certain global powers and special groups to constantly portray Germany as defeated and indebted country of World War II in order to continue their extortions;

And if it had not been for the presence of Your Excellency at the top of the executive branch of your country as an experienced stateswoman with bitter and sweet experiences in two dissimilar societies with different political systems and traditions,

And at the same time, if it had not been for the advantages that are limited to women, such as stronger human sentiments and certain manifestations of the divine compassion and kindness, specially in the position of a mother and being at the service of the people, and the common responsibility of all people with faith in God to defend human dignity and worth and to prevent violations of their rights and their humiliation, and proceeding from this conviction that we are all created by the Almighty and He has bestowed upon us all dignity and no one has any special privileges over the other, and under no circumstances could a society be deprived of its rights, barred from pursuit of progress and perfection or be controlled or humiliated;

Finally, if it had not been for the oppression, however different, of our nations, our shared responsibility to promote justice as the most basic foundation for promotion of peace and human equality, I would not have found the motive to write this letter.

Honorable Chancellor

Rulers come and go, but people with culture and history and their attachments and desires will keep on staying. Opportunities in front of those in position of high power are transient, even if they may be vast and broad. These opportunities are very auspicious and can play a key role in the negative and positive transformations and developments of a nation.

Those in position of high power do not normally have many opportunities, but are accountable before the Almighty and people due to their high responsibility. We know this, and you know it as well.

Some of these developments can have regional, continental and global ramifications and can hardly be overlooked.

For sometime I have been thinking why some nations that their history shows they have indeed had an important and prominent share and role in material and spiritual progress of mankind in various arenas of science, arts, philosophy, literature and politics and were makers of civilization are not allowed to be proud as a nation of their historical accomplishments and play their deserved and constructive role on the global arena. They try to keep the black cloud of humiliation and shame hanging over their heads. And even more regrettably, some of the leaders of such a nation regard this situation befitting them and their nation and try to justify it. This is really an astonishing phenomenon in today's world. The propaganda machinery after World War II has been so colossal that has caused some people to believe that they are the guilty party by historical accounts and must pay the penalty fort the wrongs committed by their forefathers for successive generations and for indefinite period of time.

Excellency

World War II came to an end with all its material and moral losses and its 60 million casualties. The death of human beings is tragic and sad. In all divine religions and before all awakened conscience and pure nature of mankind and the sense of right and wrong, the life, property and honor of people, regardless of their religious persuasion and ethnic background, must be respected at all times and all places.

Sixty years have passed since the end of the war. But, regrettably the entire world and some nations in particular are still facing its consequences. Even now the conduct of some bullying powers and power-seeking and aggressive groups is the conduct of victors with the vanquished.

The extortion and blackmail continue, and people are not allowed to think about or even question the source of this extortion, otherwise they face imprisonment. When will this situation end? Sixty years, one hundred years or one thousand years, when? I am sorry to remind you that today the perpetual claimants against the great people of Germany are the bullying powers and the Zionists that founded the Al-Qods Occupying Regime with the force of bayonets in the Middle East.

The Honorable Chancellor

I have no intention of arguing about the Holocaust. But, does it not stand to reason that some victorious countries of World War II intended to create an alibi on the basis of which they could continue keeping the defeated nations of World War II indebted to them. Their purpose has been to weaken their morale and their inspiration in order to obstruct their progress and power. In addition to the people of Germany, the peoples of the Middle East have also borne the brunt of the Holocaust. By raising the necessity of settling the survivors of the Holocaust in the land of Palestine, they have created a permanent threat in the Middle East in order to rob the people of the region of the opportunities to achieve progress. The collective conscience of the world is indignant over the daily atrocities by the Zionist occupiers, destruction of homes and farms, killing of children, assassinations and bombardments.

Excellency, you have seen that the Zionist government does not even tolerate a government elected by the Palestinian people, and over and over again has demonstrated that it recognizes no limit in attacking the neighboring countries.

The question is why did the victors of the war, especially England that had apparently such a strong sense of responsibility toward the survivors of the Holocaust not allow them to settle in their territory. Why did they force them to migrate to other people's land by launching a wave of anti-Semitism? Using the excuse for the settlement of the survivors of the Holocaust, they encouraged the Jews worldwide to migrate and today a large part of the inhabitants of the occupied territories are non-European Jews. If tyranny and killing is condemned in one part of the world, can we acquiesce and go along with tyranny, killing, occupation and assassinations in another part of the world simply in order to redress the past wrongs?

Excellency

We need to ask ourselves that for what purposes the millions of dollars that the Zionists receive from the treasury of some Western countries are spent for. Are they used for the promotion of peace and the well-being of the people? Or are they used for waging war against Palestinians and the neighboring countries. Are the nuclear arsenals of Israel intended to be used in defense of the survivors of the Holocaust or as a permanent thereat against nations of the region and as an instrument of coercion, and possibly to defend the interests of certain circles of power in the Western countries.

Regrettably, the influence of the Zionists in the economy, media and some centers of political power has endangered interests of the European nations and has robbed them of many opportunities. The main alibi for this approach is the extortion they exact from the Holocaust.

One can imagine what standing some European countries could have had and what global role they could have played, if it had not been for this sixty-year old imposition.

I believe we both share the view that the flourishing of nations and their role are directly related to freedom and sense of pride.

Fortunately, with all the pressures and limitations, the great nation of Germany has been able to take great strides toward advancement and has become a major economic powerhouse in Europe that also seeks to play a more effective role in international interactions. But just imagine where Germany would be today in terms of its eminence among the freedom-loving nations, Muslims of the world and peoples of Europe, if such a situation did not exist and the governments in power in Germany had said no to the extortions by the Zionists and had not supported the greatest enemy of mankind.

It is sad to admit that Europe has lost a lot of its clout in global interactions and has not been able to face and overcome major challenges by relying on itself. This is, of course, understandable. The big powers outside of the continent intend to prove that Europe cannot rely on itself and do anything without their help and intervention.

Our people have also suffered from the interventions by some of the victors of the war after World War II. For many years they interfered in our internal affairs and did not want to see our nation conquer the pinnacles of progress and perfection. They had their eyes on our natural wealth, above all on our energy resources. To secure their own interests, they overthrew the legally constituted government of the time, installed a dictatorial regime and supported it to the end. Later, they supported Saddam in the war imposed on our people and observed no humanitarian boundary in their support for the Iraqi dictator. Our nation has experienced the pain and anguish from the interferences of those who are now crying out for human rights. There are still many suffering from the wounds and injuries of this war.

Many of these aggressions have taken place by those who regard themselves the victors of the World War II. They allow themselves to do whatever they wish, and unfortunately, after the end of the Cold War, the arrogance and expansionist ambitions of these powers have escalated.

We believe that still a major part of the peoples of the world and even international organizations are under the influence of the behavior and the conduct of the victors of the World War II.

I explained the position of the people and government of the Islamic Republic of Iran at the United Nations General Assembly. Is the present state of affairs such as the rules governing the work of the Security Council, especially the right to veto, fair?

Do you not think that the time has come to change these rules in cooperation with independent governments? These rules are by no means acceptable to the collective conscience of nations and are contrary to the sense of reason and human nature. At least, if we want to be fairer, some other countries of the world should be allowed to benefit from the right to veto.

Madam Chancellor

You are familiar with the pains and sufferings currently afflicting our world. Today, the pain and suffering of the people of Iraq that come from occupation, absence of security and daily acts of terrorism are tormenting the entire humanity. Relentless interferences of some bullying powers in the internal affairs of other nations, antagonism toward the inalienable rights of nations to have access to more advanced technologies, subjecting nations to permanent threats by relying on arsenals of chemical and nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction, opposition to popular governments in Latin America, supporting coup d'état and dictatorial regimes, absence of due attention to Africa and taking advantage of the power vacuum there to plunder their wealth are among the problems facing our world today. In my letter to President Bush, I spelled out a long list of contemporary global problems.

Where are the roots of these problems? How long can they continue? Do you not think that the main root lies in the fact that some of the rulers and powers of today have distanced themselves from the teachings of the divine prophets, the teachings of Abraham, Moses and Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) and the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him).

These teachings are in all divine religions that you and I believe:

· God is the creator of all things and beings. We have all been created free and He has not allowed us to be the servant of anyone other than Him.

· He has commanded us to worship Him and to avoid all oppressors and tyrants.

· He has commanded us to be virtuous, to be good to and serve the people, and has directed us to be kind to and defend the oppressed and fight the oppressors.

· God has given humans dignity and scorns their humiliation.

· He has sent his messengers with clear reasons, the Book and a balance and has called on his servants to promote justice.



Based on these shared principles and foundations of our faith, we believe:

· Peace and tranquility can only be established and endure on the basis of faith in God and justice.

· Peace and dignity are the rights of all nations.

· Pursuit of progress and better livelihood combined with spirituality, compassion and well-being is the right of people.

· You and we can found a new movement to achieve these noble human ideals by relying on these principles and the articles of faith that are common to all divine religions.



Our nations believe and are committed to these pillars of faith. The history has shown that the people of Iran are not familiar with aggressing and brutalizing other nations. Nevertheless, we do not allow being the subject and victim of aggression and brutality. The experience of the eight-year war clearly demonstrated this fact to the whole world.

I believe we and you have both been the subject of tyranny. They do not respect your rights and want us also to forego our rights. Fortunately, I have heard that you also speak your mind openly and are against engendering tension and wars.

Honorable Chancellor,



The inner instincts and nature of the peoples of the world have wakened up.

Tendency toward faith in the oneness of God is on the rise.

People will no longer tolerate to be tyrannized, humiliated and their rights violated.

The prevailing circumstances today differ from those of yesterday. Multiple standards and approaches in relations will not endure.

Iran and Germany can play a more important role together in the international arena by relying on the noble and high values.

This cooperative relationship can also enhance the role of Europe on the global scene and serve as a model of cooperation between two governments and nations.

Without doubt, cooperation of two peace-loving, powerful and cultured nations of Germany and Iran will serve the interests of Europe as well. Together we must end the present abnormalities in international relations, the type of order and relations that are based on the impositions of the victors of the World War II on the defeated nations. Nations and many governments will be on our side on this path.

We must make the shadow of World War II disappear and help the international community to promote security, freedom and sense of tranquility.

The people of Iran and Germany are two great nations that have contributed to the making of our civilization. They have rich culture and have been in the forefront of science, literature, arts and philosophy. Both of our people have a strong faith in God and follow the teachings of divine prophets. They have also had long-lasting scientific, cultural and commercial relations and share many valuable mutual interests.

I have no doubt that with the cooperation of the two governments and the support of the two great nations we can take great strides forward in alleviating the problems and abnormalities of our world today.

Daring and courageous decisions are the key to our success in overcoming the existing problems, countering the violations of rights and defending the rights of nations.

To the extent that I know of the people of Germany, they will come along and join us and want restore their dignity and influence for the sake of global peace and calm. Our people have the similar spirit.

Together we will be able to prove to some powers that respecting other nations and their rights is good for them as well. Our two nations and governments, next to each other, will be able to play a fundamental role in promoting peace, security, progress, and human dignity at the scale of two countries and internationally.

In closing, I pray to the Almighty for the success of Your Excellency and the government and people of Germany.



source (http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8506060558)

2Sheds_Jackson
08-28-2006, 05:27 PM
Isn't he barking up the wrong tree, invoking God as a justification for his political motives? I thought Europe was much more socially evolved than that. Sure, the knuckle-dragging Americans may buy into that, but not the nuanced likes of Europe.

But best of luck to him! Here's to the new German-Iranian Theocratic Muslim Oligarchy (GITMO) - peace be upon it. May they continue to push the frontiers of science and female motherly statesmanship!






I can't believe that a head of state actually sent that to a female world leader. It makes Bush's backrub look positively sophisticated.

remo williams
08-28-2006, 05:56 PM
But best of luck to him! Here's to the new German-Iranian Theocratic Muslim Oligarchy (GITMO) - peace be upon it. May they continue to push the frontiers of science and female motherly statesmanship!


rofl rofl Bonafide classic material right there. As far as the letter and it's content, it's interesting he's trying to kiss Merkel's ass and try to show some common relationship. He might as well have sung her, "Hey/ you were Nazi's ,we like nazi's, we'd really like to be like like Nazi's, wouldn't you like to be a nazi too.baah -dump bump." WTF? Seriously though that's the most overt ass kissing I've ever read between two heads of state. I wonder what the letter to Bush exactly said. Thanks for the article Kraff

signatory
08-28-2006, 06:09 PM
just ignore him.. he's nothing more than a PR tool.

remo williams
08-28-2006, 06:20 PM
just ignore him.. he's nothing more than a PR tool.

Who Ahmadinejad?

signatory
08-28-2006, 06:24 PM
Who Ahmadinejad?

Yes Ahmadinejad.

dnme
08-28-2006, 06:32 PM
Yes Ahmadinejad.

yep a lot of people dont know that he his not the one who makes the real decisions in iran but the religeous ayathollas.

TomEHs
08-28-2006, 06:42 PM
I have a question, did the Germans raise their own money to rebuild their country after WW2 or did someone supply money to them?

emocqo
08-28-2006, 06:51 PM
just ignore him.. he's nothing more than a PR tool.

agree with you

2Sheds_Jackson
08-28-2006, 06:55 PM
I have a question, did the Germans raise their own money to rebuild their country after WW2 or did someone supply money to them?

I'm not an expert (so somebody correct me if I'm wrong) - but I believe that the Marshall Plan - as it applied to Germany - was that they got loans at favorable rates, which they repaid. Also -



Also established were counterpart funds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpart_fund), which used Marshall Plan aid to establish funds in the local currency. According to ECA rules 60% of these funds had to be invested in industry. This was prominent in Germany, where these government-administered funds played a crucial role loaning money to private enterprises which would spend the money rebuilding. These funds played a central role in the reindustrialization of Germany. In 1949 – 50, for instance, 40% of the investment in the German coal industry was by these funds.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_plan#_note-14) The companies were obligated to repay the loans to the government, and the money would then be lent out to another group of businesses. This process has continued to this day in the guise of the state owned KfW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KfW) bank. The Special Fund, then supervised by the Federal Economics Ministry, was worth over DM 10 billion in 1971. In 1997 it was worth DM 23 billion. Through the revolving loan system, the Fund had by the end of 1995 made low-interest loans to German citizens amounting to around DM 140 billion. The other 40% of the counterpart funds were used to pay down the debt, stabilize the currency, or invest in non-industrial projects. France made the most extensive use of counterpart funds, using them to reduce the budget deficit. In France, and most other countries, the counterpart fund money was absorbed into general government revenues, and not recycled as in Germany.

A far less expensive, but also quite effective, ECA initiative was the Technical Assistance Program. This program funded groups of European engineers and industrialists to visit the United States and tour mines, factories, and smelters so that they could then copy the American advances at home. At the same time several hundred American technical advisors were sent to Europe.



And of course like any Western democracy they just plain busted their asses to build their economy.

TomEHs
08-28-2006, 07:12 PM
thnx, i also noticed that even though germany and japan lost the WW2 but they have really great economies right now. Just shows what happens when you use brains for good rather than war

Eddy
08-28-2006, 07:16 PM
thnx, i also noticed that even though germany and japan lost the WW2 but they have really great economies right now.

Yeah but it was kinda 60 years ago...

Kilgor
08-28-2006, 07:20 PM
Why is ww2 the starting point ?

the real source of these problems started after the defeat and collapse of the ottoman empire after ww1.

alvarito
08-28-2006, 07:26 PM
kraf01 can you explain what is the iranian leadership REAL problem with israel and jewish people?
pure propaganda, or they really believe all the crap they are talking about? are they looking for a scapegoat,as every totalitarian regime does?

Appaloosa
08-28-2006, 07:30 PM
If it had it not been for Germany being a great contributor to progress in science, philosophy, literature, arts and politics;


If it had not been for a more important and positive influence of Germany in international relations and promotion of peace;


Moreover, if it had not been for the persistence of a strong will by certain global powers and special groups to constantly portray Germany as defeated and indebted country of World War II in order to continue their extortions;



For sometime I have been thinking why some nations that their history shows they have indeed had an important and prominent share and role in material and spiritual progress of mankind in various arenas of science, arts, philosophy, literature and politics and were makers of civilization are not allowed to be proud as a nation of their historical accomplishments and play their deserved and constructive role on the global arena. They try to keep the black cloud of humiliation and shame hanging over their heads.




The propaganda machinery after World War II has been so colossal that has caused some people to believe that they are the guilty party by historical accounts and must pay the penalty fort the wrongs committed by their forefathers for successive generations and for indefinite period of time.


Sixty years have passed since the end of the war. But, regrettably the entire world and some nations in particular are still facing its consequences. Even now the conduct of some bullying powers and power-seeking and aggressive groups is the conduct of victors with the vanquished.


Excellency, you have seen that the Zionist government ,over again has demonstrated that it recognizes no limit in attacking the neighboring countries.


Our people have also suffered from the interventions by some of the victors of the war after World War II. For many years they interfered in our internal affairs and did not want to see our nation conquer the pinnacles of progress and perfection. They had their eyes on our natural wealth, above all on our energy resources. To secure their own interests, they overthrew the legally constituted government of the time, installed a dictatorial regime and supported it to the end. Later, they supported Saddam in the war imposed on our people and observed no humanitarian boundary in their support for the Iraqi dictator. Our nation has experienced the pain and anguish from the interferences of those who are now crying out for human rights. There are still many suffering from the wounds and injuries of this war.

Many of these aggressions have taken place by those who regard themselves the victors of the World War II. They allow themselves to do whatever they wish, and unfortunately, after the end of the Cold War, the arrogance and expansionist ambitions of these powers have escalated.




The letter contains lots of truths about the past and today even if someone completely disagrees with the essence of the letter. To tell you the truth the guy isn't the idiot some people want us to believe he is. If he indeed wrote it himself.

Kitsune
08-28-2006, 07:30 PM
I have a question, did the Germans raise their own money to rebuild their country after WW2 or did someone supply money to them?

Germany was rebuild by Germans after WWII. The Marshallplan you are obviously alluding to was helpful to get the economy started but nowhere near enough to rebuild the incredible damage done. Nuff said.





As far as the letter is concerned, it is a bit strange indeed. Certainly this guy knows how to write in a very polite way. But did Ahmadinedschad really believe that Germany would suddenly form an alliance with Iran? Or is it rather some sort of ploy to damage Germanys credibility? Beats me...


At least until recently, the Iranian Mullahs regime was said to be much better than its reputation. The Mullahs would be rather realistic, level headed and more interested in stability in the region than in chaos. Within Iran the government would be reasonably tolerant towards religious minorities and for the last decade, moderate in its Islamism. I have heard repeatedly that Iran, seen from without and within, would be much preferable to Saudi Arabia, a state that is thoroughly mendacious and not tolerant in the least (take the treatment of foreigners and women as just two examples of many). But because of oil they were never on Uncle Sam's radar screen. Ah well.

kraf001
08-28-2006, 07:39 PM
well I am sure Ahmadinejad is not stupid enough to try to write a letter to every world leader by himself.. he will surely seek help from his aids and it is natural for any politician... but lets face it he was a bright student back in Shah era always a top student despite his the fact that he had a poor family (this is confirmed by his biggest opposition in Iran's political scene as they were on the same side during revolution).. he is still a university lecturer and in academics, his education could very well be the reason behind his political success and letters like this or the one he wrote for Bush..

BMF_EOD
08-28-2006, 07:48 PM
IMHO The letter is not to Merkel but to the German people. This is a battle for public opinion. Public opinion- in a democratic society- is power.

Some of the rhetoric in the letter is reminiscent of the NSDAP pre-1941. The Jews are holding you down, you could be better if not for "them" etc.... In fact here's a fun challenge-

Write a one paragraph description of Nazi party and it's ultimate goal. when you are finished replace the word "Aryan" & "Nazi" with "Islamic society".

fascism is still fascism- polite bullshi_T propaganda letters or not.

Vandervahn
08-28-2006, 07:54 PM
Yeah but it was kinda 60 years ago...

Yes, but it took less than 20 years of reconstruction to make W. Germany the leading european nation again, and that despite considerable losses in basic infrastructure (the industrial capacity however was not too heavily destroyed), despite reparation payments and despite both Britain and France receiving higher reconstruction funds than Germany.

The reconstruction of housing area for example to pre-war levels was expected to take more than 40 years. It was accomplished in less than 10. the Japanese economy had a similar impressive gain in economic strength, but it worked quite differently there.

Lt-Col A. Tack
08-28-2006, 08:02 PM
Unlike his first letter to Bush, President Ahmadinejad in his letter to Merkel, has touched on his country's nuclear issue, where he has stressed that Iran's decision for the acquisition of the nuclear technology is irrevocable.

IIRC, under the terms of the NPT, non-nuclear-weapon States do get access to nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, but Ahmadinejad making stupid statements about wiping Israel off the map, whether he's serious or not, raises serious questions of intent.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/fresh/freshest/30941327.jpg


This Aug. 12, 2006 IKONOS satellite image provided by GeoEye on Tuesday, Aug. 22, 2006 purports to show the Natanz nuclear facility in Iran. Iran's unprecedented refusal to allow access to its underground facility at Natanz could seriously hamper U.N. attempts to ensure Tehran is not trying to produce nuclear weapons, and might violate the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, diplomats and U.N. officials told The Associated Press. (AP Photo/IKONOS satellite image ourtesy of GeoEye/WIA)

Makes it hard to verify Iranian assertions that they are only seeking the peaceful use of nuclear technology.

Steelhead
08-28-2006, 08:03 PM
I hope the reply letter is

"F U."

Lt-Col A. Tack
08-28-2006, 08:13 PM
Germany was rebuild by Germans after WWII. The Marshallplan you are obviously alluding to was helpful to get the economy started but nowhere near enough to rebuild the incredible damage done. Nuff said.

I would argue that protection from the Soviet Union and assistance in introducing a new currency in 1948 were actually more significant than the dollars under the Marshall Plan. But anyway.

Vandervahn
08-28-2006, 08:21 PM
...
As far as the letter is concerned, it is a bit strange indeed. Certainly this guy knows how to write in a very polite way. But did Ahmadinedschad really believe that Germany would suddenly form an alliance with Iran? Or is it rather some sort of ploy to damage Germanys credibility? Beats me...

I read it like they are gripping for the last straw. I don´t believe that the Iranians are so one-eyed to think that Germany would side with them and oppose the majority of the western world with that. But it is true that Germany might be the seen as the most probable "advocate" against
hostilities against Iran. The perspective of the USA and the UK is clear. The French and the Russians seem to be indecisive at times in the Iran issue. China and Japan seem to be keeping a comfortable distance.

The way I see it Germany is the only nation in the "top club" that never really threatened Iran or used it as a bargaining chip (nor other ME countries), that had a relatively strong cooperation for years and, most importantly, has a history of calling for mediation and undestanding in the Middle East. How much of that has been really heartfelt agenda or simply the "german niche" on the international dancefloor is debatable.

The bad idea however is the implicate revisionist attitude towards the guilt of Germany voiced in this letter. No german leader can and will respond favourable to such a statement, even more since it contains such hidden but strong sentiments against Israel. That would be political suicide both domestically and internationally.


I would argue that protection from the Soviet Union and assistance in introducing a new currency in 1948 were actually more significant than the dollars under the Marshall Plan. But anyway.

The Mark certainly played its part in the reconstruction, but a new currency was inevitable anyway, be it with or without the allied help. But I do not see how the military protection against the Soviet Union contributed to the economic revival of Germany, apart from the obvious benefits of "supplying" the stationed forces with basic products.

PersianPrince
08-28-2006, 08:26 PM
Absolutely pathetic.

Kitsune
08-28-2006, 08:34 PM
@Persian Prince:

Is your name just chosen for fun or are you indeed an Iranian in exile with sympathies for the Shah as your avatar suggests?

Lt-Col A. Tack
08-28-2006, 08:36 PM
The Mark certainly played its part in the reconstruction, but a new currency was inevitable anyway, be it with or without the allied help.A stable currency, not influenced by the Soviets, was most definitely not assured.


But I do not see how the military protection against the Soviet Union contributed to the economic revival of Germany, apart from the obvious benefits of "supplying" the stationed forces with basic products.
I'm aghast by that response. How is economic development possible when your borders aren't secure or are under threat and the future of your government and economy are unknown? Under those circumstances there is no incentive for investment.

But we are getting a little OT, sorry all.

Kitsune
08-28-2006, 08:40 PM
@Vandervahn:

I think you are pretty on target with most of your assessement. However, I am not so sure about what you wrote cpmncerning Russia's and China's stance toward Iran. They are the most likely to support Iran since they are both interested in limiting US and generally Western influence in the Middle East and Central Asia. And both have veto power with the UN. I wonder what Ahmadinedschad wrote to them...

PersianPrince
08-28-2006, 09:08 PM
@Persian Prince:

Is your name just chosen for fun or are you indeed an Iranian in exile with sympathies for the Shah as your avatar suggests?

Im indeed an exile with sympathies for the Shah.

alvarito
08-28-2006, 10:15 PM
To PERSIAN PRINCE: i wanted to ask you cause you are Iranian, i asked kraf01 but he didnt answer( and i dont know if he is iranian.

can you explain what is the iranian leadership REAL problem with israel and jewish people?
pure propaganda, or they really believe all the crap they are talking about? are they looking for a scapegoat,as every totalitarian regime does?

kraf001
08-28-2006, 11:12 PM
IIRC, under the terms of the NPT, non-nuclear-weapon States do get access to nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, but Ahmadinejad making stupid statements about wiping Israel off the map, whether he's serious or not, raises serious questions of intent.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/fresh/freshest/30941327.jpg



Makes it hard to verify Iranian assertions that they are only seeking the peaceful use of nuclear technology.
that is the thing if we want to be selective about Ahmadinejad's words then one can argue he said 2-3 days ago that Iran's nuclear program is not a threat to anyone even the Zionist state... and if I knew that I am gonna sell my oil for $70+ USD a barrel I sure as hell won’t mind to make some dodgy comments to ensure it will stay that way.. politics is a dirty game!

Lt-Col A. Tack
08-28-2006, 11:49 PM
that is the thing if we want to be selective about Ahmadinejad's words then one can argue he said 2-3 days ago that Iran's nuclear program is not a threat to anyone even the Zionist stateStatements like that coming on the heels of the inflammatory remarks...sounds like a half-hearted attempt at damage control.


... and if I knew that I am gonna sell my oil for $70+ USD a barrel I sure as hell won’t mind to make some dodgy comments to ensure it will stay that way
I realize political remarks are intended to have an effect, but Ahmadinejad really should be more careful in his remarks on the nuclear issue...the potential for a very serious to a miscalculation is rather high right now. Saddam found that out. Admittedly the situations are very different, and I can honestly say I hope we don't have to get into another scuffle, but if we are talking about an invasion of Iran...unlikely I think...tactical strike on facilities whose purpose the Iranian leadership won't allow to be verified...who knows, maybe by the US or possibly the evil Zionist state.

PersianPrince
08-29-2006, 12:58 AM
To PERSIAN PRINCE: i wanted to ask you cause you are Iranian, i asked kraf01 but he didnt answer( and i dont know if he is iranian.

can you explain what is the iranian leadership REAL problem with israel and jewish people?
pure propaganda, or they really believe all the crap they are talking about? are they looking for a scapegoat,as every totalitarian regime does?

They use the Jews and blame them the same way Nazi Germany did.If your stomach is growling becuase you didint have enough to eat? Who do you blame the Jew.This is what they are indoctrinated.Just as there hatred for the West and The Shah.He uses this because he is a populist.

REAL Persians are not anti-semetic.The Persian Empire freed the Jewish people and gave them there land back thousands of years ago.The first to do so.

They will just blame any one but themselves when the normal Iranian is barely fed has no vehicle and an economy that is horrible the government tells them to blame the "Evil West and Zionist" it is disgusting.