What the new members bring to NATO

[SerbPVO]

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v127/Pupin11/vojska/NATO2002.jpg

[UoUo]

Nice...


I heard that in case then israel will sign peace with the pal' she will get Into NATO.

[ExtraT]

No No No, Please No!!!!

Nato is a breaking down lef over from the days of Cold War - it has proven itself incapable of following it's own guidlines several times now. It's a shot in the foot for Israel to become a member of this disfunctional organization.

You probably heard some speculations about this from the Israeli left. It's complete crap - same crap as Israel joining EU.

[EvanL]

Nice...


I heard that in case then israel will sign peace with the pal' she will get Into NATO.
I dont see how Israel could get into NATO. I mean it would be good. But it cant really afford to send its forces overseas.

[wholagun]

these countries may not have military capability but there is potential. For NATO it may not be be asset but those countries its a big deal.

[SerbPVO]

Of all these countries, the strongest are Bulgaria & Slovakia.
Followed by Romania and then everyone else.

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks?
Even having ZERO is more logical than having three.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Of all these countries, the strongest are Bulgaria & Slovakia.
Followed by Romania and then everyone else.

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks?
Even having ZERO is more logical than having three.
Perhaps it was a typo. I mean, you would have MORE instructors on how to operate them, then you could fit inside. I think a 30 or 300 would be a more reasonable number.

[UoUo]

Nice...


I heard that in case then israel will sign peace with the pal' she will get Into NATO.
I dont see how Israel could get into NATO. I mean it would be good. But it cant really afford to send its forces overseas.

Why?

You talking about capability?

If yes that you are wrong. if not...i agree with you.

And i think the new members could help NATO....bases are really Important don't you think?

[Threelions]

Latvia is my favorite on that little map. They have 3 tanks!! That seems like such a funny number.

Cheers

[Haiw]

Of all these countries, the strongest are Bulgaria & Slovakia.
Followed by Romania and then everyone else.

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks?
Even having ZERO is more logical than having three.
Maybe some leftovers from uncle Gorbachov? ;)

[UkrainianAmerican]

Btw, Ive been to lithuania in '94, and all i have to say is how AMAZED I was at their Westernization back then!
I say give em 2-3 years and they can meet any set standard no matter how unrealistic.
If they put their mind to reform, and increase their military, they will do it.

[EvanL]

Nice...


I heard that in case then israel will sign peace with the pal' she will get Into NATO.
I dont see how Israel could get into NATO. I mean it would be good. But it cant really afford to send its forces overseas.

Why?

You talking about capability?

If yes that you are wrong. if not...i agree with you.

And i think the new members could help NATO....bases are really Important don't you think?
Israel cannot afford to deploy troops. they need them at home. they are a country constantly under threat. Being a part of NATO would just be symbolic and wouldnt offer much to Israel or NATO. The NATO countries are too split on the Israel/Palestine affair that i dont think they would ever come to a decision whether or whether not to let you join.

[EvanL]

But Lituania, Letonia, Slovenia and Estonia have first class soldiers.
Especially for mountain and urban warfare.
Weapons can be bought.
with what money?

[perdurabo]

look at that map not how big they are but at strategic importance!

[UoUo]

Nice...


I heard that in case then israel will sign peace with the pal' she will get Into NATO.
I dont see how Israel could get into NATO. I mean it would be good. But it cant really afford to send its forces overseas.

Why?

You talking about capability?

If yes that you are wrong. if not...i agree with you.

And i think the new members could help NATO....bases are really Important don't you think?
Israel cannot afford to deploy troops. they need them at home. they are a country constantly under threat. Being a part of NATO would just be symbolic and wouldnt offer much to Israel or NATO. The NATO countries are too split on the Israel/Palestine affair that i dont think they would ever come to a decision whether or whether not to let you join.

And i wanted to add that the israeli people will not agree after 50 years of war, to send troops to die for another nation. :|

And btw: i am talking about join into NATO after we have peace with the Pal'.

[Sorbas2000]

But Lituania, Letonia, Slovenia and Estonia have first class soldiers.
Especially for mountain and urban warfare.
Weapons can be bought.

What are the highest mountains for the baltic countries? Mountain warfare? :D

Maybe only Slovenia has some mountain units...but not realy helpful for NATO.

[NcDeuce]

Ironic how Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were the sites of Russia and Germany's interests in the late 30s...look at them today, good for them.

[REMOV]

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks? It is not a typo, Latvia received in 2000 three T-55 tanks from the Czech Republic. Poland donated Estionia 10 T-55AM2 tanks in 2000, but AFAIR Estonia had not found the means to transport them.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks? It is not a typo, Latvia received in 2000 three T-55 tanks from the Czech Republic. Poland donated Estionia 10 T-55AM2 tanks in 2000, but AFAIR Estonia had not found the means to transport them.
:oops:
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[UkrainianAmerican]

But Lituania, Letonia, Slovenia and Estonia have first class soldiers.
Especially for mountain and urban warfare.
Weapons can be bought.

What are the highest mountains for the baltic countries? Mountain warfare? :D

Maybe only Slovenia has some mountain units...but not realy helpful for NATO.


The baltic countries men, as all the scandinavians, has been historically distinguished as warriors!
The Finland caused to URSS so looses, and during WWII the baltic SS were the among th most decorated soldiers of Third reich.
Yeah Swedes are so tough they dont even use women anymore, but replace them with cats and dogs.

[ALBANIA]

perhaps russians know anything on scandinavians soldiers!
As Simo Hayha for example! ;)

[MaDuce]

Not to mention that lots of europe hates Isreal and portrays palastinians as innocent victims. The even have to rename the spike the eurospike so they can feal good about themselfs....But thats a disscusion for another time. It be intresting seeing the transition from soviot bloc weapons to western weapons.

[Dave the Dawg]

Two galleries from the Latvian 1st Infantry Battalion, the army's main active unit. Some of the images are large and they load slowly, so I won't link to the images directly.

First is Latvians in Bosnia (SFOR) and Kosovo (KFOR): http://campadazi.mil.lv/latbat/lapas/galerija_m1.htm

Second is Latvians in Iraq: http://campadazi.mil.lv/latbat/lapas/galerija_m2.htm

[EvanL]

Two galleries from the Latvian 1st Infantry Battalion, the army's main active unit. Some of the images are large and they load slowly, so I won't link to the images directly.

First is Latvians in Bosnia (SFOR) and Kosovo (KFOR): http://campadazi.mil.lv/latbat/lapas/galerija_m1.htm

Second is Latvians in Iraq: http://campadazi.mil.lv/latbat/lapas/galerija_m2.htm
How do u have all this knowledge of other countries and their militarys?
I find it amazing that you have such a wide range of knowledge.

[Dave the Dawg]

How do u have all this knowledge of other countries and their militarys?
I find it amazing that you have such a wide range of knowledge.

Mainly from doing it for years. I majored in diplomacy and international security at Georgetown University and worked on national security affairs on Capitol Hill. I served in the US Army, including a year as a project officer working on intelligence matters. I also worked with soldiers from about 40 different countries, including on exercises and training missions and as fellow students in various schools. I have a background in languages, which makes it easier to navigate through some of the more obscure sources on the internet. I also have a job I don't particularly like (although they pay me $150,000 a year, so I shouldn't complain), so I spend as much time as I can reading and talking about the things that do interest me.

Getting to know people from all over the world has made it the most interesting, and one reason why I put up with alot of the blithering idiots on this forum, because the knowledgeable and insightful ones generally make up for it. Keeping to the "new NATO members" topic, among the guys I got to know in the Army was this guy, the acting commander of the Estonian Army:

http://www.mil.ee/cv/peeter_hoppe.jpg

The flags are up.
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album29/aaa.sized.jpg

So let's welcome Estonia to NATO! And have some cake...
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album70/abr.sized.jpg

And now that Estonia is in NATO, Poland is helping it plan the takeover of Russia :lol:
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album51/aed.sized.jpg

All they need is the help of one tough Marine...
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album29/abe.sized.jpg

Haiw kidnapped from another thread...

Aaaargh do we really have to see Jaap de Hoop-Scheffer twice a week? :P
How about thrice?
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album28/aaq.sized.jpg

And for all those high school kids who'd rather salivate over gun pictures here than talk to a real girl, these Estonian girls have one thing to say...
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album62/abi.sized.jpg

...Make my day!
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album62/abg.sized.jpg

[SerbPVO]

Very imaginative comments there, Dawg:)
Nice job with those pics!

[EvanL]

How do u have all this knowledge of other countries and their militarys?
I find it amazing that you have such a wide range of knowledge.

Mainly from doing it for years. I majored in diplomacy and international security at Georgetown University and worked on national security affairs on Capitol Hill. I served in the US Army, including a year as a project officer working on intelligence matters. I also worked with soldiers from about 40 different countries, including on exercises and training missions and as fellow students in various schools. I have a background in languages, which makes it easier to navigate through some of the more obscure sources on the internet. I also have a job I don't particularly like (although they pay me $150,000 a year, so I shouldn't complain), so I spend as much time as I can reading and talking about the things that do interest me.

Getting to know people from all over the world has made it the most interesting, and one reason why I put up with alot of the blithering idiots on this forum, because the knowledgeable and insightful ones generally make up for it. Keeping to the "new NATO members" topic, among the guys I got to know in the Army was this guy, the acting commander of the Estonian Army:

http://www.mil.ee/cv/peeter_hoppe.jpg

The flags are up.
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album29/aaa.sized.jpg

So let's welcome Estonia to NATO! And have some cake...
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album70/abr.sized.jpg

And now that Estonia is in NATO, Poland is helping it plan the takeover of Russia :lol:
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album51/aed.sized.jpg

All they need is the help of one tough Marine...
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album29/abe.sized.jpg

Haiw kidnapped from another thread...

Aaaargh do we really have to see Jaap de Hoop-Scheffer twice a week? :P
How about thrice?
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album28/aaq.sized.jpg

And for all those high school kids who'd rather salivate over gun pictures here than talk to a real girl, these Estonian girls have one thing to say...
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album62/abi.sized.jpg

...Make my day!
http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/pildid/album62/abg.sized.jpg
Where bouts in NYC are you at? IM in the west side.

[GazB]

What do the new NATO members bring to nato? A border with Russia?

The New NATO members want a security blanket to protect them from big bad Russia... and someone to pay for their defence needs... cause one look at their military capability shows they aren't interested in spending money on that.

NATO wants to get closer to Russia but is still not interested in letting Russia join NATO... I wonder why Russia is so paranoid?

This expansion will probably break the CFE treaty.

[General_Maister]

But Lituania, Letonia, Slovenia and Estonia have first class soldiers.
Especially for mountain and urban warfare.
Weapons can be bought.

What are the highest mountains for the baltic countries? Mountain warfare? :D

Maybe only Slovenia has some mountain units...but not realy helpful for NATO.

I can not speak in the name of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia beacuse I don't know their armies well.
In the case of Slovenia we have improved our army dramaticly both in training and eqipment and also in defence reforms. Maybe we can't send 1000 and 1000 of troops overseas in support of NATO led operations, because we are small country and don't have so many soldiers but we can send units who are specialized in for example radiological, biological and chemical defence; mountain units; special forces; medical teams and so on.
And believe me they can perform their missions just as good as a american, british, belgian or any other NATO soldier. They have been congratulated by various armies about their professional skills.

[droopy]

Of all these countries, the strongest are Bulgaria & Slovakia.
Followed by Romania and then everyone else.

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks?
Even having ZERO is more logical than having three.

In case you didn`t read ROMANIA is the best in military terms from the 7 new NATO members.
100+ Mig-21 Lancers,25+ Puma SOCAT,Shadow 600. -AF

2 british Type 22 frigate to enter service, 1 destroyer and 6 more FF of indigenous type in addition to smaller ships oh and a KILO type submarine. - Navy

Best Radar Early Warning and Comms equipemnt in SE Europe.

First on the ground in Afghanistan from the european countries except UK if i remember corectly.
And we are getting the Tavor as to replace licence build AK`s

Military buget.
Romania:613
Slovakia:244
Bulgaria:231
Slovakia and Bulgaria 2nd and 3rd 475 vs 613 add Slovenia and Latvia and then you are better sorry :lol:

"What are the highest mountains for the baltic countries? Mountain warfare?

Maybe only Slovenia has some mountain units...but not realy helpful for NATO."
http://www.aboutromania.com/RomaniaGeoMapX.gif
We have a lot of mountains the Carpathinas and since British mountain troops come here to learn if we have one thing to help NATO with in infantry those are the mountain troops.

[General_Maister]

Of all these countries, the strongest are Bulgaria & Slovakia.
Followed by Romania and then everyone else.

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks?
Even having ZERO is more logical than having three.

In case you didn`t read ROMANIA is the best in military terms from the 7 new NATO members.
100+ Mig-21 Lancers,25+ Puma SOCAT,Shadow 600. -AF

2 british Type 22 frigate to enter service, 1 destroyer and 6 more FF of indigenous type in addition to smaller ships oh and a KILO type submarine. - Navy

Best Radar Early Warning and Comms equipemnt in SE Europe.

First on the ground in Afghanistan from the european countries except UK if i remember corectly.
And we are getting the Tavor as to replace licence build AK`s

Military buget.
Romania:613
Slovakia:244
Bulgaria:231
Slovakia and Bulgaria 2nd and 3rd 475 vs 613 add Slovenia and Latvia and then you are better sorry :lol:

"What are the highest mountains for the baltic countries? Mountain warfare?

Maybe only Slovenia has some mountain units...but not realy helpful for NATO."
http://www.aboutromania.com/RomaniaGeoMapX.gif
We have a lot of mountains the Carpathinas and since British mountain troops come here to learn if we have one thing to help NATO with in infantry those are the mountain troops.

Bulgaria has also mountains (Rodopi, Stara Planina) and also Slovakia has mountains (Western Carpathians).

[droopy]

Yes i know but to clarify for those with lower geographic knowledge.

[REMOV]

What do the new NATO members bring to nato? A border with Russia?Additional soldiers, additional operating space. Heheh... Baltic Sea is nearly interial NATO sea ;)

The New NATO members want a security blanket to protect them from big bad Russia... You know GazB the sympathy for Russia is inverely proportional to the distance to this country. It is very "comically" and "ironically" for the inhabitant of New Zealand to speak about threat of "big bad Russia", but most probably opinion of hmm... such rusophile could change drastically when he would became of one of the European nation conquered (ruled) and forced to close relationship with Russians. The Baltic states were conquered in late '30 and absorbed by the Soviet Union, more - they were colonized by Russians. Their culture was destroyed their language was nearly banned. Try to imagine if one day every offcial documents are written in Cyrillic and your official language is Russian, and your country is just part of great SU called New Zealand Soviet Republic. Sound nice? Man, they regain their independence nearly 10 years ago, after 50 years of Russian rules.

NATO wants to get closer to Russia but is still not interested in letting Russia join NATO... I wonder why Russia is so paranoid?Beacuse Russians (like French) lives in imagine world where they are still superpower, and they still cannot understand that this era is ended. They want to dictate a conditions, negotiate on equal terms and they couldn't... So they act like king without a kingdom, who doesn't belive that he lost it. NATO for Eastern Europe is like a safety device against imperial Russian policy. And nobody here is interested to let Russia in NATO, because Russia is natural NATO well... enemy is not right word, let's say opponent.

[kinghk]

perhaps russians know anything on scandinavians soldiers!
As Simo Hayha for example! ;)

Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark. It might be discussed though, but I do live here and dont consider Finland as a part of Scandinavian region.

[b00n]

Send the new mountain warfare guys straight to switzerland and let them invade it, then they got enough money for new weapons and tanks. p-)

[scm77]

rofl Latvia has 3 tanks! That's even funnier then the armies that have zero.

With all those tiny budgets I bet the Canadian government won't bother to increase the budget because were no long the second lowest in NATO.

"We spend much more then Slovenia and Latvia. Why by equipment when we could just lose another 100 million?" :cantbeli:

[-Max2-]

And we are getting the Tavor as to replace licence build AK`s



Interresting. :) Didnt know that the Romanian Army got the Tavor...

[Adri]

perhaps russians know anything on scandinavians soldiers!
As Simo Hayha for example! ;)

Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark. It might be discussed though, but I do live here and dont consider Finland as a part of Scandinavian region.

the scandinavian hemisper is the true scandinavia...which means Norway and Sweden but as mort people I also looks on Denmark as a part of scandinavia.


Latvia owns all !!! 3 tanks rofl
I bett those three tanks can take out 100 ! they are super tanks !
Latvia's Army will give Nato, troops and that other stuff and 3 tanks! super tanks !

[perdurabo]

i don't understand why laugh about them?
thay have to have tousands of tanks an apc to be respected??

[Adri]

i don't understand why laugh about them?
thay have to have tousands of tanks an apc to be respected??

no, I didn't expect them to have a single tank.
but 3, that is funny :D

[perdurabo]

i don't understand why laugh about them?
thay have to have tousands of tanks an apc to be respected??

no, I didn't expect them to have a single tank.
but 3, that is funny :D
no funny is that canada has 0 tanks :D rofl

[Adri]

yes that too ;)

[cut]

Btw, Ive been to lithuania in '94, and all i have to say is how AMAZED I was at their Westernization back then!
I say give em 2-3 years and they can meet any set standard no matter how unrealistic.
If they put their mind to reform, and increase their military, they will do it.

same here with czech rep. from 93 to 96

also these countries are joining the EU so they will be completly westernised in no time.

does anyone know why Austria are not in NATO?

[Whistler]

rofl Latvia has 3 tanks! That's even funnier then the armies that have zero.

With all those tiny budgets I bet the Canadian government won't bother to increase the budget because were no long the second lowest in NATO.

"We spend much more then Slovenia and Latvia. Why by equipment when we could just lose another 100 million?" :cantbeli:

LOL.

Laugh it up now, but unfortunately the Canadian Govt is getting rid of our Leopards and not buying new tanks, so soon CANADA will be one of the NATO nations with 0 tanks :cantbeli: .

[mack pl]

Btw, Ive been to lithuania in '94, and all i have to say is how AMAZED I was at their Westernization back then!
I say give em 2-3 years and they can meet any set standard no matter how unrealistic.
If they put their mind to reform, and increase their military, they will do it.

same here with czech rep. from 93 to 96

also these countries are joining the EU so they will be completly westernised in no time.

does anyone know why Austria are not in NATO?They wanna be neutral :|

[SerbPVO]

I admire countries like Austria & Sweden.

Serbia should stay away from NATO too - and become neutral like Austria.
Our military is good enough to not need NATO to guard its airspace, etc.

[mack pl]

I admire countries like Austria & Sweden.

Serbia should stay away from NATO too - and become neutral like Austria.
Our military is good enough to not need NATO to guard its airspace, etc.Its more political than military decision to join NATO im guess.Maybe you have good army, but you should think about political reason to joint NATO.Are you sure, you could be really neautral(vide problem with Albanians etc.).Im guess it could be better for you to be in NATO.Every your neighbours are in NATO(without Bosnia), so maybe you should be NATO member too.But its only My opinion.Regards.

[droopy]

And we are getting the Tavor as to replace licence build AK`s



Interresting. :) Didnt know that the Romanian Army got the Tavor...

We are considering the Tavor vs AK`s in 5.56 and since almost all military contracts are with israeli weapons/equipment manufacturers i think and hope we will get it.

I think i will join the military afther i finish university in about 3.5 years and i hope i will have the Tavor in my hands.

[RS_Leo1A5]

does anyone know why Austria are not in NATO?
In the peace treaty of 1955 that made the Russians leave Austria there is a passage that demands neutrality (which has to some extend been violated by Austria joining the EU).

Greetings everybody, it's my first posting on this board!

[He219]

Servus, RS_Leo1A5!
:D

This expansion will probably break the CFE treaty.
Ratification by NATO Allies of the Adapted CFE Treaty is awaiting Russia's compliance with Flank Provisions and continued fulfillment of it's Istambul Summit Commitments regarding the withdrawals of Russian military forces from Moldova and Georgia.

[mustamato]

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v127/Pupin11/vojska/NATO2002.jpg

I wonder what would be written on the "what will NATO get" if Sweden, Finland
and Austria, the neutral countries, joined NATO by some strange reason (will not
happen of course, but still).

The military significance of in example Sweden and Finland would probably
not be that great, but together they have something like 400 modern fighters,
(Viggen, Gripen, Hornet), and soldiers that is very experienced in peace-keeping,
rather good already NATO-standardized (well most of it) equipment etc. So I
guess we would be to some use atleast :) But yeah, it´s more a political choise
than a real military one, and there is no political reason to join.

Austria: http://www.bmlv.gv.at/
Finland: http://www.mil.fi
Sweden: http://www.mil.se

[M1A2U2]

anyone have this info on all the nato countires?

[tomcat1974]

We have a lot of mountains the Carpathinas and since British mountain troops come here to learn if we have one thing to help NATO with in infantry those are the mountain troops.

Not really Droopy.. The ones that usually came to Romania to learn about mountaneous warfare are special forces (SEAL, Royal Marines, Rangers, etc). Well what is interesting is that Mountain Hunters are actually conscripts (half of them rest are professionals contract soldiers). They still use horses and mules for transport. There is nothing better than a mule on mountaneous terrain :) .

[droopy]

We have a lot of mountains the Carpathinas and since British mountain troops come here to learn if we have one thing to help NATO with in infantry those are the mountain troops.

Not really Droopy.. The ones that usually came to Romania to learn about mountaneous warfare are special forces (SEAL, Royal Marines, Rangers, etc). Well what is interesting is that Mountain Hunters are actually conscripts (half of them rest are professionals contract soldiers). They still use horses and mules for transport. There is nothing better than a mule on mountaneous terrain :) .
Special forces??? here??? in training??? didn`t knew that .

[Marmot1]

We have a lot of mountains the Carpathinas and since British mountain troops come here to learn if we have one thing to help NATO with in infantry those are the mountain troops.

Not really Droopy.. The ones that usually came to Romania to learn about mountaneous warfare are special forces (SEAL, Royal Marines, Rangers, etc). Well what is interesting is that Mountain Hunters are actually conscripts (half of them rest are professionals contract soldiers). They still use horses and mules for transport. There is nothing better than a mule on mountaneous terrain :) .
Special forces??? here??? in training??? didn`t knew that .
Of course ou didin't since this is their duty to keep atention out of them..

[execrable]

Austria: http://www.bmlv.gv.at/

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images_skaliert/soldatin_3_960x661_1055009313.jpg
http://www.bmlv.gv.at/images_skaliert/soldatin_1_960x629_1054980491.jpg

[-Max2-]

Not really Droopy.. The ones that usually came to Romania to learn about mountaneous warfare are special forces (SEAL, Royal Marines, Rangers, etc). Well what is interesting is that Mountain Hunters are actually conscripts (half of them rest are professionals contract soldiers). They still use horses and mules for transport. There is nothing better than a mule on mountaneous terrain .

I have read that Romanian SF beated US Navy SEALs during a joint training in the Romanian mountains a few years ago (2001 i think)...

[tomcat1974]

Not really Droopy.. The ones that usually came to Romania to learn about mountaneous warfare are special forces (SEAL, Royal Marines, Rangers, etc). Well what is interesting is that Mountain Hunters are actually conscripts (half of them rest are professionals contract soldiers). They still use horses and mules for transport. There is nothing better than a mule on mountaneous terrain .

I have read that Romanian SF beated US Navy SEALs during a joint training in the Romanian mountains a few years ago (2001 i think)...
Yes they did in mockup fight (laser emitors and stuff) , but they are not SF. Are more like specialised infantery. Here SF are considered the Para's and Reccon Diversion troups.

They beat them because of their training and because knowing the terrain. Since they are made 50-60% conscripts, they are usualy from the mountaneous areas, so they actually know the zone. They are a special case of RoA, even in comunist era their equipament was different from the rest of RoA, their training was different, and their atitude was dufferent due to the "espirit du corps"(over 100 years of history from what I know).

[-Max2-]

Thanks for the info... :)

Which weapons are Romanian SF using ? I have read that Romanian SF receveid modern Western weapons and equipment recently... :|

[tomcat1974]

Not much info is known about them. Usually blend in with the rest of the Army(not the Paras witch have a different uniform) so they tend to have standard equipament. The reccon troups are actully embeded in larger army units even if they act as independent force. I had a friend that was in Reccon-Diversion brench(usually they got all the martial art practicants they found), his uniforma was of a Mountain Hunter since their unit belonged to a larger mountain troup, but they trained in thing that MH don't: skydiving, para drops, scuba attacks etc.

[droopy]

This is one of the things i hate at the romanian army too much secrecy there are so few pictures,clips and information.Or i`m too stupid to find it :bash:

Tomcat i saw a story on Pro Tv a few months ago about romanian soldiers trying the Tavor 5.56mm but didn`t find any info on the net.

[tomcat1974]

Tomcat i saw a story on Pro Tv a few months ago about romanian soldiers trying the Tavor 5.56mm but didn`t find any info on the net.

Check this
http://www.mapn.ro/cpresa/cautadetaliat.php?id=411&cheie=Tavor&nr_pagina=1

Guess who where the one to test field the Tavor? Mountain Hunters.

[Dave the Dawg]

Romania has both the largest and most experienced contribution of the new NATO members. The 812th, 26th, 151st and 280th Infantry Battalions have all served in Afghanistan as part of Operation Enduring Freedom (the combat mission, not the ISAF peacekeeping mission). The 811th and the 26th Infantry Battalions have served or are serving in Iraq.

[tomcat1974]

Romania has both the largest and most experienced contribution of the new NATO members. The 812th, 26th, 151st and 280th Infantry Battalions have all served in Afghanistan as part of Operation Enduring Freedom (the combat mission, not the ISAF peacekeeping mission). The 811th and the 26th Infantry Battalions have served or are serving in Iraq.

Yes Dave that is correct. The troups are actully rotated I think. They are also independend in logistics, meaning that they a self supported by our fleet of old C130's.

[pipaz]

correction we do have 2 L-39ZA and 2 new L-39 that we bought
se we do have 4 fighter planes
that can be fitted with aim-9's

http://www.kam.lt/EasyAdmin/sys/photos/use/L-39ZA_copy_1.jpg

[tomcat1974]

correction we do have 2 L-39ZA and 2 new L-39 that we bought
se we do have 4 fighter planes
that can be fitted with aim-9's

Can be doesn't mean they they are actually carring it :) .Loading a new Missile mean more than just hanging it. It need lots of work to the fire computer, stores , store management system.

[pipaz]

I dident say they where get your facts stright :) besides thay are mostly used for training purpuses anyways.

heh I rether have helicopters than fighter jets in my country, main reson being its so small and there is no space to fully test them out, meaning fly...

besides if someone was attacking they could do it before the damn planes even took off.

In my pint of view I dont even know why we even have damn fighter jets,
the maintenece cost a **** load I reter spend my money on something elese, that actualy could be of any use for us.

Check it...http://www.scramble.nl/lt.htm

[Vytiambergas]

I dident say they where get your facts stright :) besides thay are mostly used for training purpuses anyways.

heh I rether have helicopters than fighter jets in my country, main reson being its so small and there is no space to fully test them out, meaning fly...

besides if someone was attacking they could do it before the damn planes even took off.

In my pint of view I dont even know why we even have damn fighter jets,
the maintenece cost a **** load I reter spend my money on something elese, that actualy could be of any use for us.

Check it...http://www.scramble.nl/lt.htm

They are used for training. L39 was good for as it helped to train pilots and I heard that our pilots will fly on nato jets. (Its about Belgian F16)

[Sorbas2000]

Of all these countries, the strongest are Bulgaria & Slovakia.
Followed by Romania and then everyone else.

I also dont understand ... how can a country have THREE tanks?
Even having ZERO is more logical than having three.

In case you didn`t read ROMANIA is the best in military terms from the 7 new NATO members.
100+ Mig-21 Lancers,25+ Puma SOCAT,Shadow 600. -AF

2 british Type 22 frigate to enter service, 1 destroyer and 6 more FF of indigenous type in addition to smaller ships oh and a KILO type submarine. - Navy

Best Radar Early Warning and Comms equipemnt in SE Europe.

First on the ground in Afghanistan from the european countries except UK if i remember corectly.
And we are getting the Tavor as to replace licence build AK`s

Military buget.
Romania:613
Slovakia:244
Bulgaria:231
Slovakia and Bulgaria 2nd and 3rd 475 vs 613 add Slovenia and Latvia and then you are better sorry :lol:

"What are the highest mountains for the baltic countries? Mountain warfare?

Maybe only Slovenia has some mountain units...but not realy helpful for NATO."
http://www.aboutromania.com/RomaniaGeoMapX.gif
We have a lot of mountains the Carpathinas and since British mountain troops come here to learn if we have one thing to help NATO with in infantry those are the mountain troops.

My friend, I know that Romania has mountains, but I only spoke about baltic countries, which have no mountains!
BTW, military budget in Bulgaria was 475 million USD last year + some hundred million dollars from Finance ministry for special military purposes. For next 11 years 3.9 billion USD are allowed only for modernization projects. I don't know your source with 231 million USD military budget for Bulgaria. And another thing: 475 mio USD in Bulgaria are for 45,000 soldiers...613 mio USD in Romania are for 90,000 soldiers?

[tomcat1974]

My friend, I know that Romania has mountains, but I only spoke about baltic countries, which have no mountains!
BTW, military budget in Bulgaria was 475 million USD last year + some hundred million dollars from Finance ministry for special military purposes. For next 11 years 3.9 billion USD are allowed only for modernization projects. I don't know your source with 231 million USD military budget for Bulgaria. And another thing: 475 mio USD in Bulgaria are for 45,000 soldiers...613 mio USD in Romania are for 90,000 soldiers?
Wrong dude.. the data's are available on defence minister site:
2001 Budget was 27644 billion LEI
2002 Budget was 35811 billion LEI
2003 Budget was 44639 billion LEI <<< around 1200 million USD
2004 Budget was 52217 billion LEI (projected)
2005 Budget was 59381 billion LEI (projected)
2005 Budget was 65259 billion LEI (projected)
1USD = aprox 33 200,07 LEI(avg calculated for 2003 at National Bank of Romania)

[tomcat1974]

deleted

[tomcat1974]

deleted

[tomcat1974]

deleted - damn software

[tomcat1974]

[GazB]

[GazB]

You know GazB the sympathy for Russia is inverely proportional to the distance to this country.

So the people who hate Russia the most are Russian?


It is very "comically" and "ironically" for the inhabitant of New Zealand to speak about threat of "big bad Russia", but most probably opinion of hmm... such rusophile could change drastically when he would became of one of the European nation conquered (ruled) and forced to close relationship with Russians.

Well for you information the anti russian bull**** is very popular here too. In fact the largest investment in national defence here in New Zealand was not to defend from the germans or the japanese, but from Russia. One of the greatest anti russian sources in New Zealand came from Britain, which has of course hated its rival for many centuries. If you think it has anything to do with communism then you are wrong, it is why Americans hate Russians now yet treat Communist china with most favoured trading nation status. Tsarist Russia was a threat to Britains colony in India... or so they thought.

The first Russian navy ship to come to New Zealand was captained by an estonian captain called Von Bellinshausen (spelling) who was writing the Russian navy's book on how to sail around the place... he wrote the manual for them.




The Baltic states were conquered in late '30 and absorbed by the Soviet Union, more - they were colonized by Russians.

BTW very selective memory there buddy... Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania were swallowed up by stalin sure, but they were also set free by Lenin... for their help during the revolution against the Tsars, so communism freed them from the Tsars but Stalin took them back in.


Their culture was destroyed their language was nearly banned.

Like the New Zealand Maori, Like the Australian Aborigini, like the North American Indian etc etc etc.


Man, they regain their independence nearly 10 years ago, after 50 years of Russian rules.


And introduce anti Russian laws that would make a colonial British governer blush.


Beacuse Russians (like French) lives in imagine world where they are still superpower, and they still cannot understand that this era is ended.

You mean like the British...


NATO for Eastern Europe is like a safety device against imperial Russian policy.

And from far away in NZ I laugh because by spreading into eastern europe you are helping create a situation you claim you want to prevent. Do you really think anything other than the expansion of NATO east would boost Russian military funding and help get loonies like Zhurinovsky into positions of power?
If the situation was reversed would you sit idly by as the Warsaw pact spread from country to country?

The huge alliance plan as deterrence didn't work to stop WWI, why do you think it will work now?

Isolating Cuba and North Korea hasn't really gotten results has it? What do you think Isolating Russia will get you?

If it is punnishing Russia that you want I'd have thought living under stalin was enough punnishment for any country.


And nobody here is interested to let Russia in NATO, because Russia is natural NATO well... enemy is not right word, let's say opponent.

So when they start transfering funds from the health and education areas of their economy and to military purchases it will be OK. I mean the world doesn't spend enough on weapons right now.

With the attitude that it is an opponent why would it bother cooperating with you at any level?

Without cooperation you have the cold war again... I guess you enjoyed it if you want it again so much... but it is OK... this time Poland is on the other side now.


i don't understand why laugh about them?
thay have to have tousands of tanks an apc to be respected??

Because 3 isn't even enough for one tank unit let alone training. The maintainence and facilities must be very expensive for just three tanks and they can be used for what?

You either need tanks or you don't. If you don't need them then 3 is too many and is therefore funny. If you do need them then 3 is no where near enough and is therefore also funny.


Ratification by NATO Allies of the Adapted CFE Treaty is awaiting Russia's compliance with Flank Provisions and continued fulfillment of it's Istambul Summit Commitments regarding the withdrawals of Russian military forces from Moldova and Georgia.

All the more reason to scrap the CFE treaty. The Flank provisions are cold war based and should no longer apply.

[Dave the Dawg]

Because 3 isn't even enough for one tank unit let alone training. The maintainence and facilities must be very expensive for just three tanks and they can be used for what?

You either need tanks or you don't. If you don't need them then 3 is too many and is therefore funny. If you do need them then 3 is no where near enough and is therefore also funny.
You seem to have gotten quite exercised over this matter. Latvia does not have any armor units in its regular Ground Forces (Sauszemes speki). The three tanks are at the Motorized Rifle Training Center (Mobilo strelnieku macibu centrs) at Adazi, a part of the Traning and Doctrine Command (Macibu vadibas speki), where Latvian and other Baltic forces conduct training exercises. The three tanks form a platoon used by the center for training and familiarization.

http://campadazi.mil.lv/images/gallery/14/12_10.jpg

[Sorbas2000]

My friend, I know that Romania has mountains, but I only spoke about baltic countries, which have no mountains!
BTW, military budget in Bulgaria was 475 million USD last year + some hundred million dollars from Finance ministry for special military purposes. For next 11 years 3.9 billion USD are allowed only for modernization projects. I don't know your source with 231 million USD military budget for Bulgaria. And another thing: 475 mio USD in Bulgaria are for 45,000 soldiers...613 mio USD in Romania are for 90,000 soldiers?
Wrong dude.. the data's are available on defence minister site:
2001 Budget was 27644 billion LEI
2002 Budget was 35811 billion LEI
2003 Budget was 44639 billion LEI <<< around 1200 million USD
2004 Budget was 52217 billion LEI (projected)
2005 Budget was 59381 billion LEI (projected)
2005 Budget was 65259 billion LEI (projected)
1USD = aprox 33 200,07 LEI(avg calculated for 2003 at National Bank of Romania)

Hähh? What "wrong dude"!? Romania has a military budget like Poland? No power and highways, but 1.2 billion USD military budget? wrong world! Good buy European Union for Bulgaria....'cause Bulgaria and Romania will join EU both together...and Romania will destroy our hope to join EU in 2007!

[perdurabo]

My friend, I know that Romania has mountains, but I only spoke about baltic countries, which have no mountains!
BTW, military budget in Bulgaria was 475 million USD last year + some hundred million dollars from Finance ministry for special military purposes. For next 11 years 3.9 billion USD are allowed only for modernization projects. I don't know your source with 231 million USD military budget for Bulgaria. And another thing: 475 mio USD in Bulgaria are for 45,000 soldiers...613 mio USD in Romania are for 90,000 soldiers?
Wrong dude.. the data's are available on defence minister site:
2001 Budget was 27644 billion LEI
2002 Budget was 35811 billion LEI
2003 Budget was 44639 billion LEI <<< around 1200 million USD
2004 Budget was 52217 billion LEI (projected)
2005 Budget was 59381 billion LEI (projected)
2005 Budget was 65259 billion LEI (projected)
1USD = aprox 33 200,07 LEI(avg calculated for 2003 at National Bank of Romania)

Hähh? What "wrong dude"!? Romania has a military budget like Poland? No power and highways, but 1.2 billion USD military budget? wrong world! Good buy European Union for Bulgaria....'cause Bulgaria and Romania will join EU both together...and Romania will destroy our hope to join EU in 2007!
Poland mili budget is bigger than 1.2 bilion $
1 bilion $ is for modernizationand it's only 16% of mili budget
whole budget is more than 4.9bilion $ (almoust 5bilion but it depends on dollar=złotówka exchange price)

[Loco]

I found this graphic in a spanish newspaper:
http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/graficos/2004/03/31/140655.gif

[Pandy]

I think that one guy who is in the background of that chick is looking at her ass.

woot woot woot woot woot

That's my boy!

[Valuk]

Yes, of course we cannot afford to buy big are fleets or smthg simmilar, but we can and we will offer quality not quantity. Our mountain troops are good, they even ocaisonally train members of the Royal marines in our Alpes. Not to forget, that our guerilla forces were able to inflict heavy casualties to wehrmacht in ww2 and they weren/t communists in 1941 and 1942. They changed to partisans later. We even had real secret hospitals with surgical equipment and the germans did not find it. In Ljubljana, our capital even an illegal radio station operated throughout the ww2. And parts of ASlovenia were the first liberated area of Europe in 1943, two years before final liberation.

To NATO we won't offer air defence cause we have only SA-18's. We will offer an mechanized infantry battalion (6x6 and 8x8 Pandur vehicles), a completely new RCBW battalion with very highly skilled soldiers, we flew 5 Bell 412 for SFOR and they were told to be the best available in Bosnia (by Wesley Clark), they flew in every weather and even in heavy fog they evacuated US brass general when things got hot in Banja Luka i believe, because of protesters. And no other helicopter flew that day. And we can offer in Bosnia incredible information, because we lived with the nations of bosnia, serbia, croatio and kosovo.

[mack pl]

You are from Slovenia, Valuk?Regards.

[Valuk]

Yes, sorry, I forgot to mentione that :cantbeli:

I forgot also to say that we will probably also offer the capabilities of our new AS-533 Al Cougar helicopters. Slovenia is very active in the Balcan region with her demining organization (International Trust Fund For Demining and Mine Victims Assistance (ITF) - http://www.itf-fund.si/), which is considered as the best of its kind in the world and is therefore financed and supported by many nations, including USA, which I believe has been quite generous in this field:). Not to forget is the good English, German and Italian, spoken by our peacek. troops. But I think that the greatest contribution can be given by us in the Balcans region, where our troops speak and understand the native languages very well, not to forget the understanding of the mentality, habits ect. of the people we had lived together with for more than 50 years and still feeling very much at home there, among otherwise very generous people. I claim that if US&co. would listen to our inteligence services about Kosovo and Bosnia, there would be much less bad surprises and that has been already proven. Therefore, just give us the chance and we will prove worthy of NATO membership.

[Dave the Dawg]

I went to Infantry Officer Basic Course with one of the first Slovenian officers to train in the US, Captain Josip Bostič.

An earlier Slovenian army thread: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11229

Here is one of the aforementioned Bell 412s, not shown in the earlier thread (note that the image is reversed):
http://www.mors.si/mors/images/bell412_nova.jpg

And a Bell 206:
http://www.mors.si/mors/images/bell206_nova.jpg

Another shot of the Pilatus PC-9s shown in the other thread:
http://www.mors.si/mors/images/pc9_nova.jpg

These aircraft all belong to the 15th Military Aviation Brigade (15. Brigada vojaškega letalstva (15. BRVL))

[GazB]

You seem to have gotten quite exercised over this matter.

Nahhh, just explaining to some why three tanks is an amusing amount.

BTW you photo shows them to be upgraded T-55s. Not exactly quality but probably useful against second line troops or APCs and IFVs.

[Valuk]

http://www.mors.si/mors/images/cougar.jpg

[Valuk]

http://www.pomurski-sejem.si/novo2003/slo-vojska/vslikah/SSV143.jpg

Hummers as used in Afganistan and Bosnia by our troops and mdernized t-55 with israely armur, L7 105mm gun and new electroptical sys (M-55S), which are going to be soon phased out probably

http://www.pomurski-sejem.si/novo2003/slo-vojska/vslikah/SSV152.jpg

[droopy]

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00009960

[thomas1]

http://www.nato.int/sfor/nations/romania.htm
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1

June 2003

Romania’s Mountain Troops Thrive in Rough Environment

by Roxana Tiron


They call themselves the masters of improvisation. They comb the mountainsides on horseback, conducting humanitarian assistance missions, as well as search and rescue at extreme heights.

The Romanian 21st Mountain Battalion, “Vânatorii de Munte,” lacks much of the sophisticated equipment and logistics support available to the wealthier NATO armies. But they tend to overcome those disadvantages with old-fashioned survival skills and thorough training.

“We certainly have enough difficulties,” said Lt. Col. Cristinel Cernea, the battalion commander. “But we always figure a way out.”

These mountain fighters, who have often been called “Mountain Hunters,” or “Mountain Rifles” in direct translation, are trained to be independent and to survive in an inclement mountain environment, while conducting covert missions.

They are, by all intent and purpose, the elite forces of the Romanian Army. But the fighters themselves do not easily accept that title.

“We do not call ourselves elite troops or special operations forces, because we like other people to call us that,” Cernea said, half in jest.

The history of this mountain battalion goes back to World War II. It was set up in 1940 to defend Romania’s northwestern border. Two years later, these troops were deployed to the Crimean Peninsula. The battalion was dissolved in 1946 and reshaped in 1961.

Currently, the Romanian military, with 95,600 troops, does not have dedicated special operations forces. However, Romanian officials—working on the restructuring of the military as Romania assumes its new NATO member role—are toying with the concept of creating a SOF component that will draw soldiers from the mountain units.

So far, the 21st Battalion has stood up an operational company of 140 soldiers that can be deployed for NATO commitments. The company can deploy in 12 hours for search and rescue missions and in 30 days for collective defense or large-scale combat, according to Cernea. Less than 25 percent of applicants have been accepted. All officers and many of the soldiers speak English and have trained with the British, U.S., Turkish, Greek and Italian special operations units. They are all contract soldiers (professional) in their second or third tour of duty.

Since the war in Afghanistan started in 2001, the battalion has been waiting for a combat assignment in that region, said the battalion’s deputy commander Maj. Costel Ionescu.

Currently, other Romanian conventional troops are in Afghanistan, collaborating with U.S. forces.

By September, the whole battalion will become operational within NATO, said Cernea, together with the entire 2nd Mountain Brigade, to which this battalion belongs. Brig. Gen. Ion Bucaciuc wrote in a recent article that Romania will be able to send a complete battalion on NATO missions rather than a single company.


Selection Process

Most of the soldiers selected to become mountain troopers are from a rural background and hail from areas around the Carpathian Mountains, where the base is located. Many already have some experience in rock climbing and skiing.

The soldiers are selected from a pool of conscripts, as well as from the professional military. Romania still has mandatory conscription, but the country has seen a rise in the numbers of those who want to make a career out of the military. Both types of applicants go through a selection process, and usually about four people compete for a spot in the battalion.

“The professionals have to go through basic training, even though they have been in the Army before, in a different unit or specialization,” said Cernea. “They may have forgotten what they have learned, and so they need this accommodation period to be modeled into what we want, and in a few months, they get into the rhythm that we impose.”

About 65 percent of the battalion members come from the professional Army. By 2004, Cernea said that he wants to see that number go up to 90 percent.

Physical endurance is of utmost importance, said Cernea. The trainees also have to go though elaborate psychological testing.

The main areas of instruction are tactics and weapon use, rock climbing and downhill skiing. The first period of combat training lasts for about seven months.

Each company of the Mountain Battalion deploys with 10 tracked armored vehicles that can operate at altitudes of 2,500 meters, Cernea said.

“It has an inclination of 25 degrees. It is pretty useful.” It also can cross over mountain rivers, he said.

The 10-ton vehicle has a limited nuclear biological and chemical defense system and two guns, a 7.62 mm one and a 14.5 mm gun.

For the transportation of equipment and troops, the Mountain Battalion also uses the equivalent of a jeep that can drive up mountain paths, but very often, equipment is carried on horseback, said Cernea.

For the airlift of cannons and mortars, helicopters also are used, but the battalion itself does not have any air assets at all. These come from the Romanian Air Force and are mostly the IAR 990-Puma helicopters, of Romanian make. The company “IAR Brasov S.A.” has signed a joint venture with Eurocopter, a subsidiary of the EADS conglomerate.

The battalion has a battery of 76-mm cannons, specifically designed for mountain operations.

“Each battery has two sections, and each section has four systems. So altogether there are eight pieces,” he said. The cannons have a range of 5,600 meters, while the mortars can reach out to 8,000 meters. The mortars use 82-mm caliber ammunition.

The mountain troops carry 5.45-mm automatic rifles, which are also of Romanian make and are compatible with NATO equipment. The guns are resistant to cold temperatures, soldiers said. The rifle butts have been designed so they can lie flat on soldiers’ backs without hindering them on hiking missions. The Mountain troops used to have AKM rifles, which are the Romanian upgrade of the AK-47 Kalashnikov.


Training Exercise

On one of the training ranges at the base, several soldiers go through basic routines—climbing, rappelling and evacuating the injured. Donning bright red helmets, from afar, they look like giant red ants scurry around on a massive concrete wall.

Training on this wall is more difficult than actually climbing a mountain, said Capt. Adrian Buzea. “The wall has a 90-degree inclination and even worse in areas where the wall is built with parts that stand out,” he said. “On the mountain, you can climb as if you were climbing a set of stairs. On a rock, you have the freedom to choose the route that may be easier, but here, you do not have that choice.”

Since 1995, the 21st Mountain Battalion has rappelled from helicopters in joint exercises with U.S. Special Forces, Army Rangers and Navy SEALs, said Cernea.

Soldiers also read U.S. Army 10th Mountain Division manuals and the Ranger handbook, among others, said Ionescu.

The first battalion of the 2nd brigade received approximately $122,000 (or in Romanian currency—four billion Lei) to outfit troops with new equipment over five years.

“The government has invested a lot into this battalion,” he said. The sum is large when viewed in the context of Romanian military spending, which is 2.38 percent of the GDP.

A pair of new skis, for example, can cost up to $400. Each soldier is receiving a pair of Austrian “Fischer” skis. Soldiers are trained to hike up the mountain with the skis on their feet by attaching what they call “seal skin” on the bottom of the skis, explained Capt. Adrian Buzea.

The “seal skin,” a synthetic material, “allows the soldier to slide in one direction,” said Buzea. “You can go up the hill that is very steep because this skin compensates in traction. It has a special adhesive.”

Soldiers in basic training use old Romanian wood skis. “These skis are still used in training, because the Fischer skis are too expensive,” said Buzea.

The mountain battalion is also trying to replace the traditional pitons that have to be hammered into the rocks, with new devices called pictogram keys. The serrated edges of these keys can be pegged into the mountain wall, noted Buzea.

In a storage room, equipment is neatly stacked in piles and rows: rifles, frontal flash lights that can be attached to the helmet, Kevlar vests, altimeters, portable heaters, tents, roll mats, ropes, boots, the seal skins and the skis.

Cernea said that soldiers could use sturdier, waterproof boots. The battalion has received a new boot, but it has not yet been tested in harsh weather environments.

On a typical day, soldiers carry about 40 kg on their back, and depending on the mission they can carry up to 50 kg, which equals about 110 pounds. But Ionescu said that is not considered too heavy. “Look at the Americans, they carry backpacks that are bigger than them,” he said.

“Mountain troops have a peculiar way of doing business,” said Ionescu. Each soldier has to be able to operate independently. “If this independence is not created, and the support for this independence is not there, then he can’t accomplish his mission.”

He said that the soldiers are trained and outfitted to be self-sufficient. Logistics support is more challenging in the mountains.

Each soldier is equipped with everything he may need to survive, including a medical kit.

In the four years he has been with the battalion, he has not witnessed any serious or deadly injury. “We have scratches, bruises, strained muscles,” he said.

Every company in the battalion has a medical group, which receives its training and certificates from Romanian medical assistance services. Every unit has its own doctor who keeps the medical groups up to speed.

To move the injured down from the mountain (or the wall), the soldiers use a pulley that allows two men to bring down a casualty tied up in a stretcher. A single soldier also can do that, or he can simply carry the injured on his back if it is not a serious injury. When they lack any other means of transporting a casualty, the soldiers have learned to use a sturdy wooden rod to transport the injured. At the heights in which they operate it is often impossible to carry a stretcher. Soldiers pointed out that despite advanced weaponry that may be available their training lets them make the most of harsh and sometimes primitive conditions.

[thomas1]

http://www.mapn.ro/foto/cercet.jpg

[Valuk]

When talking about mountain warfare, we cannot overlook the BIGGEST and BLOODIEST MOUNTAIN CAMPAIGN in the history of mankind, which was fought on Slovenian soil in WW1, the so called "Soca river campaign". It lasted for two years and took more than ONE MILLION casualties (dead, missing, injured). It was fought from 1915 till 1917 between Italy and Austro Hungarian empire, which Slovenia was then a part of. It was mainly fought on high grounds in the Alps (altitude around 2000 m). The Italians were unable to penetrate the frontline in 10 bloody offensives, athough they were wastly superior (AH empire fought on three fronts: Soca&Tyrolian Alps, the Balkans and Russian front) and were threatening to do it finally in their next offensive. Therefore, Germany decided to assist it's ally in conducting a surprise attack and sent in troops, which resulted in a miraculous breaktrough at Kobarid and ended in a complete destruction of Italian army, which finaly reestablished a defence line a few hundert km inside Italy.

This so called mirracle at Kobarid is today seen as the first BLITZKRIEG operation in the history of warfare. In 1945 or 1946, I don't know exactly, General IKE Eisenhower visited this little Slovenian town and said that here is the place, where the history of warfare has changed so dramatically in contrast to the other WW1 frontlines in the West (I'll try to get some pictures, but you can see it all in the museum at that place). A young, at that time unknown German officer was one of the men, most responsible for the succes. His name was ERWIN ROMMEL! Not surprisingly, ERNEST HEMINGWAY wrote a book about it, entitled: »A FAREWELL TO ARMS«. Slovenian mountain troops, constituing a small part of A-H army, were acknowledged as being the toughest in defence and together with a Muslim formation from Bosnia they were used in the most critical parts of the frontline as an impermeable defensive line. I am also glad that our country is starting reconstructing and renovating parts of this historical battlefield which has dramatically changed the shape of some mountains in that region (some are even a few tens of meters shorter as a result of the fighting, diging tunnels and placing explosive charges). I was there last summer and I can say that you can still get the real filling of war, due to all the threnches and caves that remain, cause they are carved and blasted into the solid rock. There are also huge areas of crumbled rock seen everywhere even today as a result of artillery barages.