What a great place South Africa is :(

[Trident-za]

A good friend of mine was shot dead this morning -right in front of his wife - in an "armed robbery" gone wrong. This all happened less than 1.5 km from my house.

Four young black guys came into his shop and demanded the keys to his safe. He politely told them that he didn't have keys, and the safe was empty anyway (his shop had been open for 10 minutes). They argued with him for about 30 seconds, then shot at him 5 times (hitting him twice) and ran away..... His wife has been hospitilized with stress/shock/whatever you want to call it.

This kind of violent crime is very common in South Africa, unfortunately.... even more unfortunate is the government doesn't appear willing or able to do anything about it (it has become something of a political/racist issue - and they are trying to pretend it's not happening).

Not happy :(

[Herrmannek]

I thought that SA was quite civilised place, fiting european cultural standards?

[cut]

I thought that SA was quite civilised place, fiting european cultural standards?

nope, worsed violent crime rates in the world.

Sorry to hear of your loss Trident. What can be done about the situation?

[Herrmannek]

Thats bad, I'm sorry for your friend trident...

[Trident-za]

For the most part it is Hermannek... but violent crime goes on a lot. The problem is twofold:

a) approx 40% unemployment
b) many of the unemployed were members of the ANC military wing and/or members of the SADF and/or members of various "civil protection units" etc.

So, lots of unemployed people who grew up with violence, and were trained to kill. There is a bit of racisim involved too - anyone who tries to tell you that black people can't hate white people with a passion is wrong. I say an "element" not all crime is black VS white - a big percentage of crime is against wealthier black people.

A civilized country? In many ways yes.... in other ways, very definitely not. As far as I know, this country is the "rape capital" of the known world..... and a lot of that is the rape of children (myth amongst poor, uneducated people is that ****** intercourse with a young virgin is a cure for HIV).

[Trident-za]

And thanks for the condolences - although I don't feel sorry for myself, but his poor wife....

[Haiw]

My condolences...always said when something like this happens. :|
They really need to tackle the crime in SA. Everyone I know who's been there or lived there says it's about as bad as it gets on crime. :|

[Herrmannek]

Can you give link with article about curret situation in SA you think describes best whats going on, I would like to know more, but we have here virtualy no coverage from that part of world :( ...

[hank]

Trident - you've had a rough week. I'm thinking about you, bud. Keep the faith, things always get better.

hank

[Dalleer]

That's bad, sorry to hear about your loss.

But out of interest, since South-Africa has a crime rate such as that what sorts of weapon-laws do you have there anyway ?

[EvanL]

im sorry for your lose Trident. My sympathies to you and your friends family.

[b00n]

I saw a documentary about a South African Police Unit, it really looked like they prepare for a war not for regular police duty.
Or the people who prepare their own cars against carjacking with pepperspray and flamethrowers...

My condolences to his wife too.

[Trident-za]

Thanks all.

Several questions need answering, but before I do that: South Afirca is actually a fantastic place, but it is on the verge of being totally ruined by criminal activity and corruption... which would be a terrible shame, this country has SO much potential.

Herrmannek, I'll try find some links for you. One of the things the government did a few years ago was to make it illegal for the media to report crime statistics (they claim it was giving a false impression of the country). Once a year, "official" figures are released by the government - according to those figures, the crime rate is dropping remarkably, and South Africa is safer than most of the world :roll: I'll try find something useful though...

Dalleer, South African gun laws allow, in theory, any citizen to carry a weapon (hand guns only for the most part). Concealed carry is also allowed. Unfortunately, there is a HUGE supply of illegal weapons (right up to AK-47s and RPG-7s) - people tend to forget that the ANC was a terrorist organization, with access to serious hardware which is often still around. If they made it illegal to carry weapons, I fear that the crime rate would just go up - very few legal weapons are used to perpetrate crimes.

b00n, that documentary you saw was more than likely about the police "Task Force" unit - essentially a Special Forces type unit. A Huge percentage os South Africa is very rural and/or wild (lots of bush). A NYPD or LAPD police unit would get slaughtered in that environment - unless they received some "military" style training first.

[Trigger]

Sorry to hear that Trident. :(

[Ratamacue]

My condolences to you, his friends, and his family.

[Red]

Sorry to hear that Trident-za,i undrestand how you feel but i would like to say that the hate by black South Africans is not only limited to Whites but also foreigners as well.I once wanted to visit SA but i later changed my mind cause of the way they treated Nigerians.Take care

[Trident-za]

Too true.... xenophobia is huge in South Africa. Difficult to understand how a culture supposedly against discrimination can hate other black "tribes" so much. Many of my wife's post-graduate students are black people from outside SA -they really struggle to deal with it. Truly wonderful to see a society based on non-racism/non-culturalism/non-sexism etc in action :roll:

Edit ... I know a few Nigerians who have come to South Africa - either as students or academics - wonderful people from what I can see.

[Red]

Too true.... xenophobia is huge in South Africa. Difficult to understand how a culture supposedly against discrimination can hate other black "tribes" so much. Many of my wife's post-graduate students are black people from outside SA -they really struggle to deal with it. Truly wonderful to see a society based on non-racism/non-culturalism/non-sexism etc in action :roll:

Edit ... I know a few Nigerians who have come to South Africa - either as students or academics - wonderful people from what I can see.
Some can be jackasses though.Do you go to wiwatersand?thats is a hugely popular school in Nigeria

[Trident-za]

No, I don't have anything to do with Wits.... there are jackasses all over, from every group you can imagine :) The guy in charge of politics at my local university is nigerian - nice guy. And, as I said, my wife has a few Nigerian students too... I guess you can't generalize off that -South Africa has LOTS of Nigerian drug/gun dealers...

In my limited experience, though... Nigerian students are more in touch with reality ..i.e. performance to an academic standard is required :roll:

[Red]

No, I don't have anything to do with Wits.... there are jackasses all over, from every group you can imagine :) The guy in charge of politics at my local university is nigerian - nice guy. And, as I said, my wife has a few Nigerian students too... I guess you can't generalize off that -South Africa has LOTS of Nigerian drug/gun dealers...

In my limited experience, though... Nigerian students are more in touch with reality ..i.e. performance to an academic standard is required :roll:
if you dont have a 4.0 your dad will hang you p-)

[BR]

A good friend of mine was shot dead this morning -right in front of his wife - in an "armed robbery" gone wrong. This all happened less than 1.5 km from my house.

Four young black guys came into his shop and demanded the keys to his safe. He politely told them that he didn't have keys, and the safe was empty anyway (his shop had been open for 10 minutes). They argued with him for about 30 seconds, then shot at him 5 times (hitting him twice) and ran away..... His wife has been hospitilized with stress/shock/whatever you want to call it.

This kind of violent crime is very common in South Africa, unfortunately.... even more unfortunate is the government doesn't appear willing or able to do anything about it (it has become something of a political/racist issue - and they are trying to pretend it's not happening).

Not happy :(

Here, in Brazil, we have a lot of crimes like that, mainly on the urban centers. I can imagine what you're feeling, specially about your government, because here it's not much different. Every year the crimes rates only rases, with few exceptions.

Not even the authorities are in safety.

Last year, one of bodyguards (from Army) of President's son died shot by a couple of car robbers, that had identified themselves as police officers. The actual Minister of Justice had you private car (armoured!) stolen, when your wife was at hairdresser. And the former President had two private cars stolen.

:(

[mustamato]

The actual Minister of Justice had you private car (armoured!) stolen, when your wife was at hairdresser. And the former President had two private cars stolen.

I think politicians need stuff like that to happen before they start to care.
Before it happens to them it´s just statistics.

[Herrmannek]

THanks Trident you were very informative. I couldn't reply to that post in sunday because my net connection went out :|. I'm curious if things are goint to setle or SA stands on edge of something worse ie like sharing fate of some other welthy african countries with are torn by civil wars?

[Trident-za]

THanks Trident you were very informative. I couldn't reply to that post in sunday because my net connection went out :|. I'm curious if things are goint to setle or SA stands on edge of something worse ie like sharing fate of some other welthy african countries with are torn by civil wars?

Herrmannek... sorry for long delay in reply. I don't know the answer to your question. I hope like hell things will improve, but I'm expecting it to get worse first. The police are actually starting to get these criminals behind bars... but then corruption kicks in. There was a medai report claiming that prison wardens were "organizing" prison escapes for a price, and then getting the escaped convicts to participate in crime - for the profit of those wardens. :roll:

An update: 1 of the 4 criminals has been arrested, and the body of another has been found. I've spoken to the guy's wife, and she told me that after getting shot, he drew his 9mm and fired 3 shots before dying.... the body they found had 3 9mm bullet holes.

[Midav]

My condolences.

[Flagg]

Sorry to hear about the bad news mate....

[Herrmannek]

Thanks Trident..

[ibstolidude]

@ Trident Za - I am very sorry over the loss of your friend. I know words mean little when you suffer such a loss, but none the less I offer my condolenses.



- several good friends of ours are from SA. They moved to the US for the opportunities (specific ones related to business, not knocking your/their homeland & do to crime problems).
They are promising me a trip to SA - don't go telling me a bunch of bad stories and ruining it for me. I am really excited about the prospect.
I actually did side work, briefly, for a company based in SA, although have never been there. Perhaps it is time you stated some favorable things about your homeland?

[Haiw]

They have good wine, a great flora & fauna, and they speak English. :D

[Trident-za]

@ Trident Za - I am very sorry over the loss of your friend. I know words mean little when you suffer such a loss, but none the less I offer my condolenses.



- several good friends of ours are from SA. They moved to the US for the opportunities (specific ones related to business, not knocking your/their homeland & do to crime problems).
They are promising me a trip to SA - don't go telling me a bunch of bad stories and ruining it for me. I am really excited about the prospect.
I actually did side work, briefly, for a company based in SA, although have never been there. Perhaps it is time you stated some favorable things about your homeland?

:) You will really enjoy the visit, ibstolidude. It is really a great country. Crime is a concern, but that doesn't mean you won't enjoy yourself. Good things about SA: fantastic weather and scenery, great "wildlife" areas, awesome beaches, and very cheap for foreigners :)

What part of SA are your friends from?