SU-25 use DU?

[Mark Sman]

I'm asking. Did the SU-25 use Depleted Uranium in its cannon? In Afghanistan?

There is so much of a dust up over recent use of DU in some places, that I was wondering were else it may have been used.

From a health study standpoint it could be useful. Although I don't know how much useful data we would get out of Afghanistan what with the repeated destruction of their meager medical systems and records.

DU has been around since the early 70s. Where else could it have been used?

Iran-Iraq war? Israeli Cobra gunships? Russia had DU tank rounds for the T-62, T-64 and T-72 according to wikpedia(which could be full of it). Did Iran have operating reactors back then? That's where you get DU.

What about vehicles that may have had DU armor components that got blown to smithereens?

I'm asking because I'm actually curious. Save the flames for your marshmellows.

OK thats enough beer for me, good night.

[George W. Bush]

I think so, the Afghani fighters had a lot tanks.

[PsihoKeke]

As I remember Russians never used DU penetrators, but focused on development of wolfram ammo. Iran and Iraq didn't have DU ammo, same goes for israeli gunships. The only tank that usese DU in armor is Abrams. Several got blown in accident in Saudi Arabia, which caused local contamination.

[Mr. Nielsen]

My guess, given the lack of armoured targets, would be that the SU-25 primarily used HE shell's in Afghanistan.

Also the Apache's 30mm gun does not shoot with projectiles of very high velocity. Therefore it relies on HEAT shell's to penetrate armor.

The SU-25 on the other hand has a high velocity gun, like the A-10, and could rely on firing very fast shell's of wolfram or DU to defeat armor.

[Tony Williams]

British tank guns use DU also, last I heard. And in the USA, the 25mm APFSDS for the Bradley and the 25mm API for the AV-8B all use DU as well as the A-10's gun and the tanks.

I've never heard of the Russian 30mm guns using it.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion
forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[George W. Bush]

Well since the Russians invented DU penetrators I think they would use them against armor.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Somewhere on the net, I believe that I have seen the claim that germany during ww2 was the first to use DU. As they were short on wolfram, they supposedly turn to DU.

Does anyone know if there is any bit of truth in that story?

[Tony Williams]

Not DU (that needs a nuclear processing plant) but uranium ore. They had 1200 tons of it collected for their nuclear programme, and when that folded Speer assigned it for use in PzGr.40 ammo. It was used in the 5cm L/60 guns, according to the reports I've seen.

Tony Williams

[Mr. Nielsen]

Not DU (that needs a nuclear processing plant) but uranium ore. They had 1200 tons of it collected for their nuclear programme, and when that folded Speer assigned it for use in PzGr.40 ammo. It was used in the 5cm L/60 guns, according to the reports I've seen.

Tony Williams

Interesting.

So they extracted the uranium metal from the uranium ore for the projectiles, but didn't deplete it of U-235.

[Tony Williams]

So I understand. The word on the collectors' circuit is that a radioactive 5cm PZGr.40 projectile has been discovered. Not one that I'd care to have sitting on my shelf....

Tony Williams

[Hellman109]

So I understand. The word on the collectors' circuit is that a radioactive 5cm PZGr.40 projectile has been discovered. Not one that I'd care to have sitting on my shelf....

Tony Williams

I wouldnt particually want a 5cm live shell on my shelf either... falls off when ure asleep BOOM, now you can see the kitchen from your bedroom.

[GazB]

Russia had DU tank rounds for the T-62, T-64 and T-72 according to wikpedia(which could be full of it).

No.

There are new DU rounds for the 125mm gun of the T-72 but they are post afghan war (ie post 1989) and are not widely used.


I'm asking. Did the SU-25 use Depleted Uranium in its cannon? In Afghanistan?

The only DU the Su-25 carries is in its AA-8 AAMs. They were rarely carried in Afghanistan and I don't remember any being fired in that war, though I could be wrong on the latter... but max numbers used would be rather less than 10.


Did Iran have operating reactors back then?

No, The Israelis did blow up that iraqi reactor in 1982 though.


What about vehicles that may have had DU armor components that got blown to smithereens?

I am unaware of any Russian or Soviet vehicle that would use DU armour.


As I remember Russians never used DU penetrators, but focused on development of wolfram ammo.

I agree... they preferred Tungsten (wolfram) because it was cheaper and safer.


The SU-25 on the other hand has a high velocity gun, like the A-10, and could rely on firing very fast shell's of wolfram or DU to defeat armor.

The Su-25 is more of a CAS than a tank killer. It tends to use guided weapons for heavy armoured vehicles rather than the gun.


Well since the Russians invented DU penetrators I think they would use them against armor.

The Russians didn't invent DU... technically the americans perfected DU by processing it in the first nuclear reactor to make bombs. I am not sure who used it first as a weapon, but as the Russians don't normally use DU penetrators and the west does I would guess it was a western invention.


So they extracted the uranium metal from the uranium ore for the projectiles, but didn't deplete it of U-235.

Actually DU is U-238... if it was pure U-235 then more than half a kilo would reach critical mass and detonate.
DU is the U-238 after all the U-235 has been removed... U-238 is the normal natural state of Uranium... I have seen some... it is quite strange... it is always warm to the touch due to the energy being constantly released.


falls off when ure asleep BOOM, now you can see the kitchen from your bedroom.

If it reached critical mass then there would be no bedroom and no kitchen... :-)

BTW Hi Tony, if anyone is interested in guns mounted in aircraft Tony is your guy... check out his website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/

[Mr. Nielsen]

DU is the U-238 after all the U-235 has been removed... U-238 is the normal natural state of Uranium... I have seen some... it is quite strange... it is always warm to the touch due to the energy being constantly released.

U-238 is the most abundant specimen in naturally occuring uranium:

U-238 99,27% with a half-life of 4.5 billion years.
U-235 0,72% with a half-life of 704 million years.
U-234 0,0055% with a half-life of 204.000 years.
http://www.risoe.dk/rispubl/NUK/nukartikler/pdfartikler/Uranriska.pdf

The least unstable of the three, U-238, will eventually become stable when it turns into lead.

I wonder if there is a precise definition of DU. I have seen uranium containing as much as 0,35% U-235 called DU.

[springwheat]

I agree... they preferred Tungsten (wolfram) because it was cheaper and safer.Not to start an argument, but tungsten is also a heavy metal, and it is also not something you would want to inhale in powder form :)

[Mark Sman]

Thanks everyone for your responses to my original question.

Now I have a follow up request for opinions.
What do you think about the stuff listed on the following web page under the heading What do the experts say on cancer risk?
http://www.deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_library/health.shtml

Again, all thoughts appreciated.

[GazB]

Not to start an argument, but tungsten is also a heavy metal, and it is also not something you would want to inhale in powder form :)

There are no heavy metals that are safe for ingestion for humans, I certainly agree, but the radioactivity of Uranium, while not strong enough to penetrate skin can effect cells that it is touching if it is inside of you.