View Full Version : name the gun
elguapo
06-04-2003, 11:56 PM
What's that gun, a Skorpion? If so it's a weird choice for australian sf instead of mp5s...
http://www.tropaselite.hpg.ig.com.br/Australian%20SASR%20in%20timor.jpg
Va_Dinger
06-05-2003, 12:31 AM
Looks like Australian SASR with HK MP5K's to me.
OzMan
06-05-2003, 12:49 AM
I agree. Without the stock and with the flashlights on the end, they do look a little wierd. I'm going with MP5K.
Alleycat
06-05-2003, 01:56 AM
Yeah thats the MP5K.
Gringo
06-05-2003, 05:40 AM
Yep that's definatly an MP5K
cool pic mate.
Does it look like they're using those special MP5K holsters/sling that are sometimes used for undercover ops?
No, they are using the standard web loop sling attached to the K-end cap swivel.
He219
06-05-2003, 11:34 AM
I agree. Without the stock and with the flashlights on the end, they do look a little wierd. I'm going with MP5K.
The MP5K has no stock or flashlight as a standard feature.
Only the PDW has the folding stock (and provisions for a Surpressor)
http://www.hkpro.com/image/mp5ka4.jpg
http://www.hkpro.com/mp5ksuppress.jpg
p-)
He219
Phantom
06-08-2003, 12:22 AM
it's possible that it's the sasr, but i wouldn't be so sure, the air defense guard could be doing it, they do a lot of guarding work
Chops
06-08-2003, 01:29 AM
It's SASR. 3 Squadron guys as part of Response Force (RESPFOR), the SFTG in Timor. The guy they're protecting is Xanana Gusmao (sp?) who was the head honcho of the Falintil who were the anti TNI guerillas in Timor.
rgds
Chops
Thankyou Chops, always on the mark mate!
MP5K with surefires and NADs, and standard HK slings.
As for ADGies, they don't have the MP5K, they only use the MP5A3 (for certain tasks, specifically their CTFR "role"), and they certainly don't do CP work this high profile, as East Timor was.
CPP was originally handled by SASR and then later (and originally a joint venture for ADF Brass) by the CP section of the Military Police, as per official regs.
Shadow
06-08-2003, 03:34 AM
http://hkpro.com/image/mp5kengraved.jpg
I love this pic!
Gringo
06-08-2003, 05:24 AM
I don't like that MP5K pic Shadow.
Claymore
06-08-2003, 05:35 AM
What they're going to hit with that MP5K without any stock? =O
...Or is sound and muzzleflash enough?
Even if they would use that sling for help, it's not going to be easy to control.
Seraphim
06-08-2003, 02:28 PM
Anyone ID the gun this guy is carrying? Looks like it could be a shotty.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030608/capt.1055096298.iraq_delicate_balance_xclt106.jpg
Spc. Kleyton Fonseca of Newark, N.J. stands over a sleeping baby, a box filled with 12.5 kilograms (25 pounds) of C4 explosive and a bag of detonator cord during a search of a home in Khaldiyah, Iraq (news - web sites) on Sunday, June 8, 2003. The soldiers searched the home after an informant tipped them off to the house, in a town where anti-American sentiment runs high and soldiers have been ambushed numerous times. (AP Photo/Chris Tomlinson)
Phantom
06-09-2003, 12:40 AM
you dumbass claymore, what do you think that fore grip is for, and i'd be suprised if an MP5K had a stock, since it's the MP5K PDW that has the stock....
What they're going to hit with that MP5K without any stock?
Indons mate, Indons....
They're performing CPP work, travelling between Miliatry FOB's and civvie "official" buildings etc, and driving in civvie lancruisers. An ultra short weapon was/is the only real practical type of weapon for such work.
If it wasn't appropriate, the SASies wouldn't be using it would they?
The MP5K is just as accurate as it's full sized brother in a CQB environment with an experienced operator. US SF rumoured names of it being "the room broom" are uncalled for in my experience.
Claymore
06-09-2003, 12:15 PM
Thanks for answer, BiZ
I have used MP5K PDW couple of times and found that shooting full-auto with no stock is almost useless in anything else than at very close range.
Or I'm just a poor shooter. ;)
"They're performing CPP work, travelling between Miliatry FOB's and civvie "official" buildings etc, and driving in civvie lancruisers. An ultra short weapon was/is the only real practical type of weapon for such work."
If I have a mission where I may have to use my weapon, should I use stock in my weapon (because hits count, not sound) or not (and look "cool")? MP5K + choate stock doesn't weight/take room much more that without stock.
So they go to places where is lot of people they don't want to shoot (=civvies). If you can't hit target with your every bullet, there is a risk that an innocent bystander gets that bullet.
"If it wasn't appropriate, the SASies wouldn't be using it would they?"
Also SAS guys can make bad decisions...
"The MP5K is just as accurate as it's full sized brother in a CQB environment with an experienced operator"
Yes, but I talked about shooting without any stock. MP5K is technically accurate enough.
Claymore I don't know what you are getting at here?
"The MP5K is just as accurate as it's full sized brother in a CQB environment with an experienced operator"
Yes, but I talked about shooting without any stock. MP5K is technically accurate enough
The MP5K does not have a stock, folding or otherwise. read that again and let it sink in. The MP5K-PDW (personal defence weapons) does come with a folding stock. If you 'add' and a stock to an MP5K then I would refer to it as an MP5K-PDW, as it has been "product improved" beyond the whole K (K = kurtz = short) principle.
Also SAS guys can make bad decisions...
SAS yes, SASR no. :D At least, I would.nt personally point out there business to them.
I have used MP5K PDW couple of times
Therein would lie your problem. Those who have been on TAG rotation (as all of 3 Sqd had been at the time, as those choosen for the CPP work would have no doubt have just completed 'refresher' training/courses etc, using the MP5K on a daily basis. The choice between the full siza A3 and the K is a personal one when on the rotation, therefore an opearator is not only comfortable with the weapon but also their ability with it. Running several hundred rounds a day through a wepaon when on rotation seems to give you that knowledge/confidence on your weapon and your own ability....
Please don't anyone then post "derrrr confidence is one thing..." etc etc, as if you are thinking that you've missed the point and simply don't understand.
Claymore
06-12-2003, 11:19 AM
Claymore I don't know what you are getting at here?
Yes I can see that. You do that unintentionally or not.
The MP5K does not have a stock, folding or otherwise. read that again and let it sink in. The MP5K-PDW (personal defence weapons) does come with a folding stock. If you 'add' and a stock to an MP5K then I would refer to it as an MP5K-PDW, as it has been "product improved" beyond the whole K (K = kurtz = short) principle.
That gun, I used, was a MP5K (Kurtz) with Choate stock added. In spite of your idea of referring that a MP5K-PDW it isn't that technically. MP5K-PDW has longer barrel with possibility attach a suppressor. But anyway, in my text, it isn't important. I was talking about how difficult it is to shoot MP5K full-auto (and hit).
I have used MP5K PDW couple of times
Therein would lie your problem
Can you reveal your own experience with real MP5K?
Those who have been on TAG rotation (as all of 3 Sqd had been at the time, as those choosen for the CPP work would have no doubt have just completed 'refresher' training/courses etc, using the MP5K on a daily basis. The choice between the full siza A3 and the K is a personal one when on the rotation, therefore an opearator is not only comfortable with the weapon but also their ability with it.
Yep, Thanks for info, but I didn't say that those guys are not good or they can't shoot.
Running several hundred rounds a day through a wepaon when on rotation seems to give you that knowledge/confidence on your weapon and your own ability....
I go to shooting range normally twice a week, so I can say that I know about the abilities of my shooting and my guns. How about your knowledge? You don't speak about it at all. It would be nice to hear. :)
How about your knowledge? You don't speak about it at all.
Loose lips...
Claymore
06-14-2003, 12:00 PM
How about your knowledge? You don't speak about it at all.
Loose lips...
= no experience at all
Oh Claymore how you hurt me so.
I'd answer your questioning further but I'd prefer you to go and play with your namesake and have a terrible 'accident'.
Seriously though, I do have slightly more experience than hitting the range twice a week like yourself.
I was talking about how difficult it is to shoot MP5K full-auto (and hit).
Why would they (in your busy heavily civvied area scenario from earlier) be firing full-auto? In a CQB type situation it's very easy to manage and hit targets that you could with the full sized (stock out) MP5. It's called training and practise.
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