Polish minister of defense flies first polish F-16

[tony6]

Fort Worth, Texas, yesterday:
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/578/zdjecie_578_7457.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/578/zdjecie_578_7458.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/578/zdjecie_578_7459.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/578/zdjecie_578_7460.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/578/zdjecie_578_7462.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/578/zdjecie_578_7463.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/578/zdjecie_578_7464.jpg

[Wachmistrz]

nice pictures! :-)

(naprawdę niezłe znalezisko!)

[DaGreatRV]

I like the paint job! woot

[Adax]

Excellent Photos of our new F-16! :D
Can't wait to see them with CFT and full equiped with rockets and bombs.
Does somebody know when our F-16 will be in Poland ?

PS: Licze na zdjęcia z pokazu dla Kaczora...

[wholagun]

just curious where will our pilots do target practice and did we buy any training bombs?

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

sikorski...haha thats a popular aviation name as well

[Herrmannek]

But the sikorski from helis was Russian...

[HazF16]

he didnt actually fly the first PoAF F-16 (as the title says). he just got a ride in an LM bus

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

But the sikorski from helis was Russian...

yeah i know, its just a good name for aviators

[CPL Trevoga]

Your Sikorski could be Russian too. He looks Russian.

[Wachmistrz]

Your Sikorski could be Russian too. He looks Russian.


With Radek Sikorski there is an interesting history. He left communist Poland after secondary school. Then he was learning on a british university, and in 1987 was in ocuppied Afganistan (he wasn't there official p-) ).

He wrote a book about that and became a price for photos, which he made there.

[daily666]

Awesome pics tony! It's really nice to see our new toys look so good. I like the camo job too! woot woot woot. I also rather like Sikorski, as opposite to the rest of our govt.

[corran.pl]

With Radek Sikorski there is an interesting history. He left communist Poland after secondary school. Then he was learning on a british university, and in 1987 was in ocuppied Afganistan (he wasn't there official p-) ).

He wrote a book about that and became a price for photos, which he made there.

from wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Sikorski.jpg

Radosław (Radek) Sikorski (born February 23, 1963 in Bydgoszcz), is a conservative Polish politician, journalist and, as of 2006, the Minister of National Defence.

Sikorski was much involved in the Solidarity unrest in the late 1970s, and chaired the student strike committee in Bydgoszcz. Stranded in Britain when martial law was declared in his homeland in 1981, he studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Pembroke College, University of Oxford. He then worked as a journalist. In 1984, he took British citizenship. In the mid-1980s, Sikorski worked as a war correspondent in Afghanistan.

Returning to Poland, in 1992 he briefly became deputy defence minister in the Jan Olszewski government. From 1998 to 2001 he served as deputy minister of foreign affairs in the Jerzy Buzek government. From 2002 to 2005 he was a resident fellow of the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C. and executive director of the New Atlantic Initiative. He returned to government in Poland as defense minister in 2005.

He is married to the American journalist and historian Anne Applebaum; they have two children, Alexander and Tadeusz.

[Wachmistrz]

from wikipedia:


f**k, I forgot that there is something like wiki...:cantbeli:

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

just curious where will our pilots do target practice and did we buy any training bombs?

CPL Nadarzyce is the primary bombing range for the Polish AF and the F-16 pilots will also train there.

Some pics: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1648950&postcount=176

[He219]

Great pictures.
I like the two tone color scheme ..


But the sikorski from helis was Russian...
Born in Kiev, Ukraine.
;)

[Musashi]

In the mid-1980s, Sikorski worked as a war correspondent in Afghanistan.

The author of the article in Wikipedia forgot to write Sikorski has fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

[jamaKinson]

The author of the article in Wikipedia forgot to write Sikorski has fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

And how did his 'fighting' looked alike there ?

[Herrmannek]

wow. I haven't knew about Applebaum being wife of Sikorski...

[Musashi]

And how did his 'fighting' looked alike there ?
I don't know the details. He was fighting with Kalashnikov assault rifle and I am not proud of him, btw ;)

[daily666]

I don't know the details. He was fighting with Kalashnikov assault rifle and I am not proud of him, btw ;)

So you're saying he was fighting hand in hand with Osama? Never heard about this.

[tony6]

Some photos from the ceremony with our prime minister:
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7493.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7489.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7490.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7491.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7492.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7494.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7495.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7496.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7497.jpg
http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7498.jpg

[~~~~]

a priest even there? lol

[Adax]

Nooooooo! I wanted to see our '16 with CFT ;( <sad>
But still they look great.

[Resurrection]

Beautiful plane, thanks for the pics.

[zapatero]

The Fighting Falcons are replacing the Mig's 21. But what about the rest of the Polish Air Force? 48 planes seem to be not enough for a country of that size and population. The Su-22 and Mig's 29 will fly till 2015. Is Poland preparing to buy another type of aircraft to replece them?

[Adax]

The Fighting Falcons are replacing the Mig's 21. But what about the rest of the Polish Air Force? 48 planes seem to be not enough for a country of that size and population. The Su-22 and Mig's 29 will fly till 2015. Is Poland preparing to buy another type of aircraft to replece them?
Well, now you got us :)
I have heard some rumors about getting second hand F-16AM for replace Su-22. But I think that isn't good idea.
And somthing to replace MiG-29 ? Dunno. I've read somewhere that Poland will buy F-35, but I think it isn't real conception for next 15 years :)
I don't know what we are going to do, maybe Corran knows something.

[x2Cool557x]

Does anyone know when and how many F-16's Poland will get from the U.S?

[zapatero]

Yeah, I've heard that too. There was once an article in Nowa Technika Wojskowa giving an analysis of the development of the Polish Air Force in next years. There was even an opinion not to buy the F-16 and to upgrade the Migs and Sukhois and to wait for armed UAV's. The contract for the Falcons was callad by the polish press as the "Business of the century". I'm wondering how much would cost a replacement of five ELT's, that is about 60 aircraft? If you ask me i would like to see some Gripens (low life cost and technology transfer) or Eurofighters (transfer of technology) with white red chess board. Concerning the recent trouble with the F-35 in Norway, UK and Italy it would be better to skip the Lightening II...

[zapatero]

Does anyone know when and how many F-16's Poland will get from the U.S?
The first 4 planes will arrive in November 2006. The whole delivery of the 48 F-16's will be between 2006-2008. there will be 36 F-16C and 12 F-16D. They are going to be fully operational in 2009-2010.

[makavelli]

hey, he looks like jonathan rhys the hollywood actor..

[perdurabo]

Yeah, I've heard that too. There was once an article in Nowa Technika Wojskowa giving an analysis of the development of the Polish Air Force in next years. There was even an opinion not to buy the F-16 and to upgrade the Migs and Sukhois and to wait for armed UAV's. The contract for the Falcons was callad by the polish press as the "Business of the century". I'm wondering how much would cost a replacement of five ELT's, that is about 60 aircraft? If you ask me i would like to see some Gripens (low life cost and technology transfer) or Eurofighters (transfer of technology) with white red chess board. Concerning the recent trouble with the F-35 in Norway, UK and Italy it would be better to skip the Lightening II...
Gripen had higher price than F16 in our tender, Typhoon has too high price and its batch 1 is only fighter not multirole one, and we need multirole fighters like F16C/D...

[zapatero]

Gripen had higher price than F16 in our tender, Typhoon has too high price and its batch 1 is only fighter not multirole one, and we need multirole fighters like F16C/D...
Yeah, but remember - each contract is different (to quote the dubious contract for the ORWS for the Rosomak APC, which apparently was won by Otomelara after two cancelled tenders; in each of them the prizes were changing). And what is concerned the Typhoon I was thinking about taking over some planes from the third tranche of the british order as far Eurofighter manages to make out of its product a multirole fighter... There are also some plans for the SuperGripen. But I agree with you in the question of the type of the plane Poland needs. It has to be a fullblooded multirole machine and not some cheap junk produced only to save jobs in the military industry in Europe.

[Adax]

Hmm... F-16C/D bl. 52+ alongside with Gripen ? I don't think so...
Maybe that would be good for PolAF - they are great aircraft, but it would also big problem for logistics, mechanics. We would better buy next NEW F-16C/D block 52 or 60 to replace Su-22 and maybe Mig-29's.
My dream is to see F/A-18 in Polish Air Force(to replace Mig-29), but I'm afraid that's unrealistic ;( The price is much bigger than F-16...

[zapatero]

Hmm... F-16C/D bl. 52+ alongside with Gripen ? I don't think so...
Maybe that would be good for PolAF - they are great aircraft, but it would also big problem for logistics, mechanics. We would better buy next NEW F-16C/D block 52 or 60 to replace Su-22 and maybe Mig-29's.
My dream is to see F/A-18 in Polish Air Force(to replace Mig-29), but I'm afraid that's unrealistic ;( The price is much bigger than F-16...
What's wrong with having two types of aircraft? The costs of logistics wouldn't be that big (the tax cost of the recent contract is even a greater problem for the budget of the Twin Duck Republic). But on the other hand buying more F-16's is a good solution. Maybe it's time to start participate in the F-16 Next Generation program? What do you think Adax?

[Adax]

Well, WE MUST do something - end everthing to modernize our AF, because now we aren't doing NOTHING(excepte those F-16 ;) ), and the time is running. We cant depend only on those 48 F-16 bl. 52 - it is too small number of aircraft for PolAF(so we must get new aircrafts).
Starting participate in next part of F-16 would be very good decision. But what verision of F-16 ? Next Generation - it will have some F-22 and F-35 elements in avionics - so it will be expencive, but maybe ?
I think block 60 would be more rightness(of course I've would rather want
newer versions).

[Musashi]

Gripen had higher price than F16 in our tender, Typhoon has too high price and its batch 1 is only fighter not multirole one, and we need multirole fighters like F16C/D...
Perdurabo, what are you talking about? The Gripen is CONSIDERABLY cheaper.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2286/4494fighterprices0om.jpg

Extracted from www.nfow.pl

[CPL Trevoga]

The author of the article in Wikipedia forgot to write Sikorski has fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Ok, that explains alot of things. How did a person with such "colorful" past was able to become a defence minister?

[Son of Damian]

Perdurabo, what are you talking about? The Gripen is CONSIDERABLY cheaper.


Since Parliment cut the number of aircraft the Swedish AF can operate SAAB/the Swedish AF have been looking to sell the now unwanted Gripens, and it since has become cheaper. But before that it wasn't exactly cheap, otherwise Austria might not have chosen the Typhoon over the Gripen.

Here is an excerpt from the article Why Austria Selected Eurofighter EF-2000 Typhoon at acig.org



But – as a solution for the next 30 to 40 years was sought for - unsurprisingly, the 33-head quotation-commission from the different branches of the MoD, eventually declared the EF-2000 for a winner, basing their choice on a list of 1.000-capability-points. According to this list the EF-2000 was the most advanced design, and won by 4:1 during the final selection. This despite the fact that the very same officers (most of which are "Cold War Warriors") expected that when the question of costs would be merged, the Saab's offer for their very much beloved Gripen would win 'hands down'. Eventually, the offer from Swedes was delivered irritatingly slow and proved not only sloppy, but also too highly calculated.


If you want to read the entire article here is the link http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_476.shtml

[~~~~]

Ok, that explains alot of things. How did a person with such "colorful" past was able to become a defence minister?

so what's wrong with his past?

[perdurabo]

Perdurabo, what are you talking about? The Gripen is CONSIDERABLY cheaper.


Extracted from www.nfow.pl (http://www.nfow.pl)
AFAIK that's because in our tender F16 was with all weapons while Gripen was almoust bare plane you can see that bare F16 C/D costs for USAF was as high as JAS39

[Ravage]

http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7495.jpg

WTF ? a priest to make sure that the devil will not take over the new F-16 p-)

[daily666]

http://www.wp.mil.pl/galeria/580/zdjecie_580_7495.jpg

WTF ? a priest to make sure that the devil will not take over the new F-16 p-)

Were you born yesterday? We always have more priestes than military personell at such events. :cantbeli:

[Ravage]

Were you born yesterday? We always have more priestes than military personell at such events. :cantbeli:

20 years in a block of ice, so cut me some slack p-)

[Holycrusader]

so what's wrong with his past?

He have a british citizenship. I do not like that my Minister of defence is a Quen's subject...

[Ravage]

Soo what do you think we should do ?

.............................kill him ?

[daily666]

All in all we can say Radek Sikorski is a "colorful" person. Did you know that he was Ruppert Murdoch adviser for investment projets in eastern Europe? And I don't think he was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan but for sure he was a journalist there. Honestly I think this "fighting with mudjahedeen" thing is a myth.

[Ravage]

Rambo Radek

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5306/donalrambokv4.jpg

[Musashi]

And I don't think he was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan but for sure he was a journalist there. Honestly I think this "fighting with mudjahedeen" thing is a myth.
Bullshiit. You should think he fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan, because he admitted it officially 20 days ago during a chat. Read the chat (in Polish):
http://wojsko-polskie.pl/wortal/document,,id,4622.html

[daily666]

Bullshiit. You should think he fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan, because he admitted it officially 20 days ago during a chat. Read the chat (in Polish):
http://wojsko-polskie.pl/wortal/document,,id,4622.html

you mean this part?


18:30:17 2006 trol_bagienny: dlaczego pan minister nie odbył służby wojskowej ?
18:30:25 2006 _MINISTER_: bo byłem wtedy na wojnie
18:30:30 2006 _MINISTER_: zwycięskiej
18:30:35 2006 _MINISTER_: w Afganistanie

He said he was on the war, didn't say he fought there.

On his page it says he was a journalist in Afghanistan 1986-1989.
http://www.radeksikorski.pl/index.php?zakladka=zyciorys

I don't want to argue with you Musashi but until there's some serious data that says he was really fighting there I'm not gonna believe it.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

I saw an interview with Radek some time ago and when asked about his activities in Afganistan he answered that he was a war correspondent, but he always carried a weapon for self-defense...

Anyway, despite his past and dual citizenship he seems to be one of the smarter guys in the government and I think that he will also be one of the better defense ministers we had, especially when I look at his recent decisions like reviving the Krab and Loara programs (btw. it's official that the army will buy the first Krab test battery (6 guns) in 2007), increasing the funding for R&D works in Polish defense industry etc.

[Adax]

Hey, thaks for that link with chat :) I didn't even know that Radek S. is giving chats!
BTW:
Well the good news is that there will be more money for Gawron korvette. Well we will see about that.

[Musashi]

@Daily666,
my acquaintance (slawek1971) from my private forum (www.musashi.byethost31.com) knows Sikorski personally, and Sikorski told him he had fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan. According to him, Sikorski said he took up the arms against the Soviets, because he could not bear their brutality towards the Afghans. That's all.

@Brzeczyk,
Where can I learn more details about the reactivation of Krab and Loara programs? If it is true, it would be the greatest news I've heard this year so far :D

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

@Brzeczyk,
Where can I learn more details about the reactivation of Krab and Loara programs? If it is true, it would be the greatest news I've heard this year so far :D
http://www.wp.mil.pl/pliki/File/zalaczniki_do_artykul_sprostowania_i_polemiki/panorama_sprostowanie.doc



Huta „Stalowa Wola” produkuje armato-haubice o nazwie „KRAB”. W przyszłym roku planowane jest podpisanie umowy z Hutą na zakup 4 sztuk armato- haubic „KRAB” za kwotę ok. 100 mln zł. W budżecie na rok 2007 wyodrębniono kwotę 10 mln zł na pierwszą wpłatę związaną z przedmiotową transakcją.

and http://ww6.tvp.pl/View?Cat=400&id=394510

So, together with the 2 pieces already manufactured those 4 new howitzers will create the first test battery.

About Loara- I've heard that the Ministry's Armament Council (Rada Uzbrojenia) recommended the purchase of about 30 vechicles, although no final decisions were made yet...

[nu4idf]

does training of polish pilots to use these planes call for going over where the on/off switch is?!?!?! hahahaha
sorry I had to throw in a polish joke in there

[daily666]

does training of polish pilots to use these planes call for going over where the on/off switch is?!?!?! hahahaha
sorry I had to throw in a polish joke in there

if it was only a good one...:cantbeli: