Why aren't Muslims protesting against violence in Iraq?!

[Apathy]

I don't get it. I mean if you guys can rally together against something as trivial as a cartoon, then why can't you guys call for peace in Iraq? If Islam is such a peaceful religion, then why aren't you guys in the streets right now calling for peace between the Shia and the Sunni? Where are the worldwide demonstrations against any further violence in Iraq?

[WarriorMonk]

1 - people think its fun to blame America now
2 - if they do call for peace - it's a lopsided peace that only benefits them somehow...
3 - the Shia vs Sunni thing goes WAAAAAAAYYYYY back - and isn't easy to untangle.
4 - see #1 for reference, they think we broke Iraq, now we own it until we fix it.
5 - calling for end to violence could mean that they seem to be subjugated/brainwashed by the US current administration and fear reprisals
6 - some are just plain intolerant of others...?
7 - Islam has a foothold in a lot of 3rd world and 2nd world countries simply because some of those missionaries can provide need easily - as long as they get new converts - and some of those "missionaries" aren't exactly the nice ones and preach their version of hatred and intolerance...

there's probably more reasons, too...and some might just be written off as propaganda...

[Apathy]

1 - people think its fun to blame America now
2 - if they do call for peace - it's a lopsided peace that only benefits them somehow...
3 - the Shia vs Sunni thing goes WAAAAAAAYYYYY back - and isn't easy to untangle.
4 - see #1 for reference, they think we broke Iraq, now we own it until we fix it.
5 - calling for end to violence could mean that they seem to be subjugated/brainwashed by the US current administration and fear reprisals
6 - some are just plain intolerant of others...?
7 - Islam has a foothold in a lot of 3rd world and 2nd world countries simply because some of those missionaries can provide need easily - as long as they get new converts - and some of those "missionaries" aren't exactly the nice ones and preach their version of hatred and intolerance...

there's probably more reasons, too...and some might just be written off as propaganda...

Can't we all just get along?

[WarriorMonk]

Can't we all just get along?

According to Darwin - not really.

ask Einstein, too: "As long as there is man there will be wars."

and he thought that my religion (Buddhist) could probably put an end to all of this mess.

[Danik]

According to Darwin - not really.

ask Einstein, too: "As long as there is man there will be wars."

and he thought that my religion (Buddhist) could probably put an end to all of this mess.


Buddhism=no wars
Buddhist=warrior monk

[WarriorMonk]

Buddhism=no wars
Buddhist=warrior monk

Buddhism promotes the idea of no wars - but does not have to shove it down people's throats like peaceniks. You can ignore some parts of Buddhists belief (I think, I'm not as devout, go ask that ed316 guy) and still practice it - for example one of the tenets of Buddhists is vegetarian lifestyle - sure you don't have to, but as long as you follow other rules, you're fine. But for the most part Buddhism teaches compassion and caring for every living being to the best of your ability - nowhere in the sayings does it say everyone "has to" rather it says "should." One of the ideas in Buddhism is that there will be a consequence for all of your actions. You do a good deed for someone, eventually you will get rewarded, and perhaps bring you one tiny step closer to freedom from the cycle. Kill someone, and you will have to repay that debt during that lifetime or the next. The idea is to at last free yourself of every suffering and pain, and resolve all debts and free yourself from the cycle of birth and death, naturally, you wouldn't want to amass a buttload of debts to weigh you down, but you don't have to follow this to the letter...

Hell why do you even have Buddhist chaplains in the US army, that means something...chaplains don't necessarily fight on the front lines but if the base gets attacked then every available man gets called to fight.

and my username was my C&C Renegade screen name...

[Dasein]

Buddhism has hardly been a peaceful religion. Various Buddhist kingdoms in Asia have been as violent as any other region of the world. The history of China and SE Asia is as violent as Europe, despite being overwhelmingly Buddhist.

[IraGlacialis]

Buddhism has hardly been a peaceful religion. Various Buddhist kingdoms in Asia have been as violent as any other region of the world. The history of China and SE Asia is as violent as Europe, despite being overwhelmingly Buddhist.

The religion itself is very peaceful. As is Christianity, Islam (even if Muhammed became a miltary leader that pillaged and looted; that's pretty mild for that time period), and (even though centuries of Israelite history says otherwise) Judaism. Don't blame the religion. Blame the idiotic extremists, be they suicide bomber, radical Zionist, or Crusader.
In the case of Asia, Buddism wasn't a motivating factor. The reasoning for war were purely secular, mostly involving land. In the case of modern China, they even destroyed Buddhist temples in Tibet and Islamic mosques in Xianxing due to the fact that the goverment was purely atheistic, while still retaining quite a bit of Taoism.

[WarriorMonk]

Buddhism has hardly been a peaceful religion. Various Buddhist kingdoms in Asia have been as violent as any other region of the world. The history of China and SE Asia is as violent as Europe, despite being overwhelmingly Buddhist.

unfortunately, you always do get the wackos in every religion...

[sikh_warrior]

PEACE in islam! you guys must be joking.

internally what ever goes in islam is their own matter, no one from other religions can interfare!

these slims call other religions as infedels and kafirs and dont recognise existence of other religions.

you are right in saying the 2nd & 3rd world countries are more ****e to converison into islam and thats why we have this problem.

we Sikhs in india were the only ones to resist and fight forced islamic conversion when india was invaded by islam! we really do know how to take care of these slims!

those who were weak accepted islam and became muslims, those who were brave, fought and resisted islam became SIKHS, the army of Khalsa.

Guru Gobind Singh said:
"When all other means have failed, It is but lawful to take to the arms(weapons)."

The arms ware never meant as symbol of aggression, and it was never to be used for self-aggrandizement. It was the emblem of manliness and self-respect and was to be used only in self-defence, as a last resort.

so that what Sikhs did and fought and resisted islam!

thier sword has to be matched with a sword, a gun with a gun!

[Opening Batsman]

That post was funny.

[maw]

i mean this respectfully but i was taught that Buddism is essentially evolved Hinduism that gets rid of the caste/class system and the Dharma. is that the general gist or am i missing something?


Buddhism promotes the idea of no wars - but does not have to shove it down people's throats like peaceniks. You can ignore some parts of Buddhists belief (I think, I'm not as devout, go ask that ed316 guy) and still practice it - for example one of the tenets of Buddhists is vegetarian lifestyle - sure you don't have to, but as long as you follow other rules, you're fine. But for the most part Buddhism teaches compassion and caring for every living being to the best of your ability - nowhere in the sayings does it say everyone "has to" rather it says "should." One of the ideas in Buddhism is that there will be a consequence for all of your actions. You do a good deed for someone, eventually you will get rewarded, and perhaps bring you one tiny step closer to freedom from the cycle. Kill someone, and you will have to repay that debt during that lifetime or the next. The idea is to at last free yourself of every suffering and pain, and resolve all debts and free yourself from the cycle of birth and death, naturally, you wouldn't want to amass a buttload of debts to weigh you down, but you don't have to follow this to the letter...

Hell why do you even have Buddhist chaplains in the US army, that means something...chaplains don't necessarily fight on the front lines but if the base gets attacked then every available man gets called to fight.

and my username was my C&C Renegade screen name...

[praetorian6]

PEACE in islam! you guys must be joking.

internally what ever goes in islam is their own matter, no one from other religions can interfare!

these slims call other religions as infedels and kafirs and dont recognise existence of other religions.

you are right in saying the 2nd & 3rd world countries are more ****e to converison into islam and thats why we have this problem.

we Sikhs in india were the only ones to resist and fight forced islamic conversion when india was invaded by islam! we really do know how to take care of these slims!

those who were weak accepted islam and became muslims, those who were brave, fought and resisted islam became SIKHS, the army of Khalsa.

Guru Gobind Singh said:
"When all other means have failed, It is but lawful to take to the arms(weapons)."

The arms ware never meant as symbol of aggression, and it was never to be used for self-aggrandizement. It was the emblem of manliness and self-respect and was to be used only in self-defence, as a last resort.

so that what Sikhs did and fought and resisted islam!

thier sword has to be matched with a sword, a gun with a gun!


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2594/arab20owl20orlybp8.jpg

okokokokokokokooko

[eucalyptus]

sikh_warrior, you really lurk all islam related threads to post your sikhs uber menschen crap.


I don't get it. I mean if you guys can rally together against something as trivial as a cartoon, then why can't you guys call for peace in Iraq? If Islam is such a peaceful religion, then why aren't you guys in the streets right now calling for peace between the Shia and the Sunni? Where are the worldwide demonstrations against any further violence in Iraq?


http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=protests%20against%20war%20on%20iraq&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wi
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4751122.stm

We do, noone cares

[Con-man]

From what I can gather here there is one response I see fit: Muslims are protesting against violence in Iraq, along with alot of other people, where on earth did you manage to miss that? The only reason the cartoon protests gained attention was because it involved violence OUTSIDE of Iraq and A-stan to do with Muslims.

[nimer bortuqaal]

sure some protests here and there are wonderful, but really now, the majority of the conflicts in the world right now are directly related to this religion. if this religion really wants peace then they need to stand up in mass and make it happen. .... but i dont see that happening anytime soon. they say they fight because other cultures are in their lands, but have they ever tried to lay down their arms? maybe then the bad man will go away.

[Con-man]

To sum up your idea... the way to solve this is the same way to solve a chinese finger trap? Relax and don't resist, then if you work with the trap you can have your fingers back.

[Clearday-TRForce]

It is obviously that Islam is an absolutely and really peaceful relegion. There are true and well-done examples like Turkey. Wahabism supporters don't represent Islam.

Christian and other religion members should respect more to others and not to be a partner of a very very dangerous game called "Religion Wars" or more truly "Civilizations Wars". We have to eliminate "extremists", coz some people gain influence on others, having huge money from these chaoses. Chaoses have some names just like "religion", "race", "ethnic"...but actors are already same.

[shire19]

I don't get it. I mean if you guys can rally together against something as trivial as a cartoon, then why can't you guys call for peace in Iraq? If Islam is such a peaceful religion, then why aren't you guys in the streets right now calling for peace between the Shia and the Sunni? Where are the worldwide demonstrations against any further violence in Iraq?

Since when have protests ever done anything good when it comes to war? Millions didnt want the Iraq invasion to go ahead and rallied on the streets, and look what happend.

[sikh_warrior]

sikh_warrior, you really lurk all islam related threads to post your sikhs uber menschen crap.




http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=protests%20against%20war%20on%20iraq&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wi
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4751122.stm

We do, noone cares


im sorry i will try not to repeat that again!

[Bootneck]

Then you had better start eliminating your extremists from within. And, sad to say, these extremists do now represent Islam to most of the world. It's the only face we see.


It is obviously that Islam is an absolutely and really peaceful relegion. There are true and well-done examples like Turkey. Wahabism supporters don't represent Islam.

Christian and other religion members should respect more to others and not to be a partner of a very very dangerous game called "Religion Wars" or more truly "Civilizations Wars". We have to eliminate "extremists", coz some people gain influence on others, having huge money from these chaoses. Chaoses have some names just like "religion", "race", "ethnic"...but actors are already same.

[getl0st]

Why aren't Muslims protesting against violence in Iraq?

Because it's too dangerous to congregate in large groups.

[jojo]

Islam does not want peace. Destabilisation can be as effective as war in bringing down a country. Then guess who steps in to fill the breach? And in any event history teaches us that "reason" and "religion" are mutually exclusive terms.

[dangerclose]

I don't get it. I mean if you guys can rally together against something as trivial as a cartoon, then why can't you guys call for peace in Iraq? If Islam is such a peaceful religion, then why aren't you guys in the streets right now calling for peace between the Shia and the Sunni? Where are the worldwide demonstrations against any further violence in Iraq?

Maybe because they're too busy calling for the pope to be executed. And rightfully so, Islam is a religion of peace and death to all who say otherwise.

[Balam]

They are too busy protesting against the pope:roll:

In any case remember the rule:
Riots, produce revolutions.
Revolutions, produce wars.
wars, produce death.:fork: .

[annihilation]

Since when have protests ever done anything good when it comes to war? Millions didnt want the Iraq invasion to go ahead and rallied on the streets, and look what happend.

What happened, do tell?

[shire19]

What happened, do tell?

Iraq got invaded? :|

1234

[chauncy republicans]

Maybe because they're too busy calling for the pope to be executed. And rightfully so, Islam is a religion of peace and death to all who say otherwise.

Do you ever contribute more to a thread than a couple lines of sarcastic dribble?

[annihilation]

Iraq got invaded? :|

1234

Oh ok , when i read it the first time I thought i got the impression that the protests lead to the problems in Iraq (probably b/c of our lack of trust with this president.).

[mailmannz]

Christian and other religion members should respect more to others and not to be a partner of a very very dangerous game called "Religion Wars" or more truly "Civilizations Wars".

Respect is earnt, not demanded and there is very little in the muslim world worthy of anyones respect.

You see the problem with the protests against the Popes philosphical diatribe is that what people are demanding for are others to stop thinking critically of their surroundings.

Once that happens we are on the slippery slope to the good old police state where you can end up in prison or very dead simply because of what you said.

Mailman

[Mastermind]

It is the nature of man to go to war. Human beings are naturally aggressive. Being aggressive is a deeply rooted survival tool. If we are human and alive, we are descendants of successful warriors in one degree or another.MM

[Clearday-TRForce]

Then you had better start eliminating your extremists from within. And, sad to say, these extremists do now represent Islam to most of the world. It's the only face we see.


nope, this is the only face you want to see. You can break the scene of your mind and try to look at that from the different and scientific,more logical,more appropriated way. Otherwise, you are an extremist too.


Respect is earnt, not demanded and there is very little in the muslim world worthy of anyones respect.


It is very sad that you are not able to see true side of this religion. You look people who has no exact information about Islam and his doctrine.

Pope doesnt help all of us while saying "Muhammed's actions like evils"... There is no any little doubt Muhammed is the prophet of God just like Prophet Jesus.

The people around will have to respect others. It is a simple humanity behaviour. And some of us forget it just like extremists.

Anyway, what I say,or what I want to say will be not easy to be met by the ordinary minds who use the net as a hatred way or a way to use deep mind to fight against "others". Teaching and learning is a process and therefore it can be realised in the doing. It is well known that the left and right halves of the brain specialize in different things. The right side of the brain controls the left half of the body as well as visio-spatial and visio-manipulative functions.

mimetic,pragmatic,expressive and objective. One common dichotomy for criticism is aristotelian vs. platonic. In this sense, aristotelian implie a judicial,logical,formal criticism that tends to find the values of a work either within the work itself or inseparably linked to the work; and Platonic implies a moralistic,utilitarian view of art, where the values of a work are to be found in the usefullness of art for other and non-artistic purposes. Such a view of Platonic Criticim is narrow and in part inaccurate.

So you have been met by;

-theoretical criticism
-practical criticism
-relativistic criticism
-absolutist criticism

all these critisms can find the way into tragedy and comedy. So go on criticism that a few people know the reality of Islam,what it is or what it is not. What people say for it,what not. What people try to add something on it,or not. Islam is Islam, no extremism,no kill to innocents,no hurt to woman,no to no...I know you have always different story, coz you look at that case from the world view,tv view, mullah view. So what is the difference between you and the goofy,unintelligent,useless mullahs.




regards,
CDTRF

[praetorian6]

I liked your post, it was well written and logical. I know that Islam, as it was meant to be, is not a bad religion-certainly no worse than any other that we have. It is little things, like your post, that remind me of this from time to time when all you see is the negative and ignorant.

That is one of the biggest problems facing Islam, IMHO, is that is all the media attention you get: rioting, bombings, insane rants, beheadings, ect. Anyone of the slightest intelligence knows that these things do not represent your religion, but these things are what is being associated with it through the acts of these people-"in the name of Islam."

The rest of the Muslims desperately need to step forth and remind the rest of the world that not everyone of the Islamic faith is like this. Show the rest of the world what you would like them to see as the true nature. Take where you live, for example. Istanbul is a beautiful place with a rich history and good people. A view of the "normal" Muslims in their day to day lives in your city would do wonders. Show everyone that not all Muslims are insane zealots on their way to their next suicide bombing.

As far as the Pope's comment is concerned, you must see the irony to the reaction of violence to the suggestion that Islam is a violent religion. I had said earlier that the reactions of burning/bombing/rioting had hundreds of times more negative effect on Islam then anything the Pope could have said. It is easy to explain away that these people do not represent "true" Islam, but they are Muslims nonetheless. Counter what you see as false with what you would like to show as true.

One other thing that may help: if you say that "Islam is Islam," then perhaps the Muslim nations could stop offering them protection as Muslims. If they are not representative of Islam, then why protect them as brothers? If I were a Catholic, and a crazy faction of them started acting out the way the Islamic fanatics have, I would be the first in line to help get rid of them. Just something to contemplate.

I truely hope that Islam and the West can coexist happily, but it will never happen without education on both sides and the eradication of the extremists that commit these acts in the name of Islam.

Rant over, Cheers

[getl0st]

The rest of the Muslims desperately need to step forth and remind the rest of the world that not everyone of the Islamic faith is like this.

I think they need to take it a bit further and seek out and destroy the Militants from within their midst, because the bad ones are giving the rest a bad name.

[dimasorokine]

There are protest against terrorism and violence by Muslims - little of it gets shown by US media. I guess part of the reason is because in order to go to war with a people a government must make them look bad or sub-human in the eyes of the public.

-Dima

[Jaeger07]

There are protest against terrorism and violence by Muslims - little of it gets shown by US media. I guess part of the reason is because in order to go to war with a people one must lok them bad or sub-human in the eyes of the public.

-Dima

Oh really? Do you have any proof to support that?

[Luno]

Oh really? Do you have any proof to support that?


Offcurse there are Muslim that protest against terrorism :cantbeli:

here is one exemple
http://www.freemuslims.org/march/

[praetorian6]

Here are two more...

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

http://www.awesomelibrary.org/Muslims.html

...for the google-challenged. I don't think it's so much political though, because the President will tell you himself that we aren't fighting Islam. I think it's more good, old fashioned media-biased because good Muslims don't sell newspapers/ad space/ratings.

[Con-man]

Quite right, some parts of the media try to make the situation out as bad as they possibly can because then they'll have people on the edge of their seats wanting to know whats happened next. Some Australian tv stations were trying to stir stuff up by saying Iraq 'is another Vietnam'. Back to topic but, the US is not at war with Islam, just followers of Islam who have decided they want to wage war on the US.

[loganinkosovo]

I get so tired of the Muslims and western Liberals trying to defend the Fascists among them by denouncing Christian "Fanatics" as being the same thing.

I'm sorry but no matter how pinheaded they may seem to you and me, you don't see Evangalists Running out in the streets, burning down mosques and shooting Imams in the back every time a Bin Laden tape is aired on Al Jazerra. You don't see Moonies strapping on Bomb Vests and blowing up cafes in Damascus. And you don't see Scientologists driving car bombs into Irainian embassies all over the world.

Time to wake up and smell the culture of hatred fostered by these minnions of Shaitan using Islam as a mask to further their debased murderous world view.

World war 3 was thrust upon us by these people and we have only two options. Death and subjagation or Victory.

So whats it going to be?

[Luno]

I get so tired of the Muslims and western Liberals trying to defend the Fascists among them by denouncing Christian "Fanatics" as being the same thing.

I'm sorry but no matter how pinheaded they may seem to you and me, you don't see Evangalists Running out in the streets, burning down mosques and shooting Imams in the back every time a Bin Laden tape is aired on Al Jazerra. You don't see Moonies strapping on Bomb Vests and blowing up cafes in Damascus. And you don't see Scientologists driving car bombs into Irainian embassies all over the world.

Time to wake up and smell the culture of hatred fostered by these minnions of Shaitan using Islam as a mask to further their debased murderous world view.

World war 3 was thrust upon us by these people and we have only two options. Death and subjagation or Victory.

So whats it going to be?

Do you remember this?
Gott Mit Uns (God is with us)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4076/8105cjpgvk1.jpg

[Kilgor]

There are protest against terrorism and violence by Muslims - little of it gets shown by US media. I guess part of the reason is because in order to go to war with a people a government must make them look bad or sub-human in the eyes of the public.

-Dima

Your talking out your arse again, otherwise show proof that US media has described muslims as "subhumans"

[Kilgor]

Do you remember this?
Gott Mit Uns (God is with us)


Errr.. the church and nazis were certainly no friends of each other. Or does this unpleasant fact go against the liberal viewpoint of trying to defend muslim extremism and make out christians were just as bad ? This whole "nazis were christians" arguements have been used by the left and appologists before and is totally without foundation.

[Greek soldier]

Nazis were Pagans. End of story.

[praetorian6]

I get so tired of the Muslims and western Liberals trying to defend the Fascists among them by denouncing Christian "Fanatics" as being the same thing.

I'm sorry but no matter how pinheaded they may seem to you and me, you don't see Evangalists Running out in the streets, burning down mosques and shooting Imams in the back every time a Bin Laden tape is aired on Al Jazerra. You don't see Moonies strapping on Bomb Vests and blowing up cafes in Damascus. And you don't see Scientologists driving car bombs into Irainian embassies all over the world.

Time to wake up and smell the culture of hatred fostered by these minnions of Shaitan using Islam as a mask to further their debased murderous world view.

World war 3 was thrust upon us by these people and we have only two options. Death and subjagation or Victory.

So whats it going to be?

Take a deep breath and relax...now, what is it exactly that you are trying to say? Who are them and these people?

[Lazy Lob]

Do you remember this?
Gott Mit Uns (God is with us)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4076/8105cjpgvk1.jpg

That’s a cheap shot mate. If you are saying that the Nazis fought in the name of god you are mistaken. Their relationship with the Church was very fractured and had plans to establish a new type of “faith”. “Gott mit Uns” was originally used by the Prussians and then the Wehrmacht before Hitler came to power.

[Con-man]

Seconded, you need to be a bit more specific there matey...

[Luno]

Errr.. the church and nazis were certainly no friends of each other. Or does this unpleasant fact go against the liberal viewpoint of trying to defend muslim extremism and make out christians were just as bad ? This whole "nazis were christians" arguements have been used by the left and appologists before and is totally without foundation.


Funny that you say that because you can see allot of religion's influence in Nazi Germany, have you ever seen any German Soldier Death Cards?
And you can cry as much as you want but the German where a Christian country and they did kill people wearing Christian symbols.


This whole AL mulim are terrorists" arguements have been used by the right and appologists before and is totally without foundation

And I am not defending Muslim extremism I am defending ordinary Muslim that just want to live their life’s

[praetorian6]

Errr.. the church and nazis were certainly no friends of each other. Or does this unpleasant fact go against the liberal viewpoint of trying to defend muslim extremism and make out christians were just as bad ? This whole "nazis were christians" arguements have been used by the left and appologists before and is totally without foundation.

I took what he said as many different groups of asshats rally under "god" or claim that "god" is with them.

Just for the record, "god" is not limited to any one religion.

[Luno]

That’s a cheap shot mate. If you are saying that the Nazis fought in the name of god you are mistaken. Their relationship with the Church was very fractured and had plans to establish a new type of “faith”. “Gott mit Uns” was originally used by the Prussians and then the Wehrmacht before Hitler came to power.
you think that is bizarre but you don’t think it is bizarre when people are saying that al Muslim is terrorists?

[Kilgor]

I took what he said as many different groups of asshats rally under "god" or claim that "god" is with them.

Just for the record, "god" is not limited to any one religion.

I thought they (nazi german) were rallying about white supremecy and the greater german reich ?

[praetorian6]

I thought they (nazi german) were rallying about white supremecy and the greater german reich ?

I took what he said as many different groups of asshats rally under "god" or claim that "god" is with them.

See picture in question.

[Luno]

Great that people did react when I posted the belt buckle and i am glad you did :)

my point is that things are not always what they seem to be.. And many people have been using the word god in killing

and praetorian6 yes you are right :)

[Greek soldier]

I thought they (nazi german) were rallying about white supremecy and the greater german reich ?

Kilgor, no need to discuss it further. Just see how the Nazis were marching with the Olympic Torch and how many Greek and Norse symbols they appropriated.

[Lazy Lob]

you think that is bizarre but you don’t think it is bizarre when people are saying that al Muslim is terrorists?



I find it incredulous that you cannot distinguish between the Nazis' raison d’étre and Islamic fundamentalists'. Or are just trying to prop up a bad argument?

[gustavski]

they are not protesting because is america fault. from what i see the muslim hate U.S occupation in Iraq. when the situation in iraq become violence they seem to be happy because what america want is not achievable.... and one more thing the occupation of non-muslim towards muslim country really motivated those insurgent to fight... they will cause havoc as long as U.S is there. they would never let non-muslim or muslim puppet leader back by west to rule them. i hate to tell you this, but this is the truth....

[praetorian6]

Luno, I'm with you mate, I know what you meant. Love to say and try to beat the point across but I'm about done at work and have to go home and change for school. :-(

[Kilgor]

Regardless , why arnt muslims protesting against the voilence in sudan ?

[Greek soldier]

Regardless , why arnt muslims protesting against the voilence in sudan ?

Because they want the whole of Sudan under their own power (see Sharia Law). And they don't want to see Sudan back in Western-style rule (Sudan was a British colony).

[Luno]

I find it incredulous that you cannot distinguish between the Nazis' raison d’étre and Islamic fundamentalists'. Or are just trying to prop up a bad argument?

you dont see my point with the belt buckle . if the German wanted they could have changed it when they did put on the swastika but they didn’t.

my point is allot of different groups uses the word god or says that "god" is with them. its easy to make people do what you want if you say that

[kosse]

Why aren't we protesting about the wars and conflicts in the world? The same reason muslims don't.

[Kilgor]

Why aren't we protesting about the wars and conflicts in the world? The same reason muslims don't.

Recently george clooney gave a press conference with Bolton (he must have hated that) about the crisis in sudan. The western world is noticing that conflict.

[Lazy Lob]

you dont see my point with the belt buckle .

Seems not.

[getl0st]

Why aren't we protesting about the wars and conflicts in the world? The same reason muslims don't.

Because like the Muslims, many of us support what our Military's are doing.

[kosse]

Recently george clooney gave a press conference with Bolton (he must have hated that) about the crisis in sudan. The western world is noticing that conflict.
As far as I know one man ( and celebrity..) does not qualify as a popular movement against the war. Where are the huge demonstrations calling for peace or western leaders to put an end to it?

[getl0st]

Recently george clooney gave a press conference with Bolton (he must have hated that) about the crisis in sudan. The western world is noticing that conflict.

Do I have to rip out the Team America Clips???

[kosse]

Because like the Muslims, many of us support what our Military's are doing.
My country's military is not involved in wars, genocides or coups. Still don't see signs of protest against wars? Maybe it is because we don't care. Neither do the most people in the world. Including muslims.

[getl0st]

My country's military is not involved in wars, genocides or coups. Still don't see signs of protest against wars? Maybe it is because we don't care. Neither do the most people in the world. Including muslims.

Is your country having problems with Muslims?

[Greek soldier]

My country's military is not involved in wars, genocides or coups. Still don't see signs of protest against wars? Maybe it is because we don't care. Neither do the most people in the world. Including muslims.

Exactly! From the time such conflicts don't happen in our own back yard, why should we bother?

Maybe we need more conflicts to penetrate deep futher our wallets and pockets.

[kosse]

Is your country having problems with Muslims?
Why? None as far as I know.

[loganinkosovo]

Take a deep breath and relax...now, what is it exactly that you are trying to say? Who are them and these people?

The State sponsors of Terrorism
Like Iran and Syria

al Qaeda

Al-Jihad a.k.a. Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Jihad Group, Islamic Jihad

Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya

Abu Nidal organization (ANO) a.k.a. Fatah Revolutionary Council, Arab Revolutionary Brigades, Black September, and Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims

Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO) a.k.a. The National Liberation Army of Iran (NLA, the militant wing of the MEK), the People's Mujahidin of Iran (PMOI), National Council of Resistance (NCR), Muslim Iranian Student's Society (front organization used to garner financial support)

Palestine Liberation Front

‘Asbat al-Ansar (The Partisans’ League)

Hezbollah (Party of God) a.k.a. Islamic Jihad, Revolutionary Justice Organization, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, and Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine

Al Aqsa martyrs Brigade

Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine

HAMAS

The Palestine Islamic Jihad

Abu Sayyaf Group

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command

Jamaat ul-Fuqra


just to name a few.......

[getl0st]

Why? None as far as I know.

No-one from Finland died on 9/11 and only 20,000 Muslims, you've got nothing to worry about.

But thanks for the Peace Keepers in Afghanistan anyway.

[loganinkosovo]

you dont see my point with the belt buckle . if the German wanted they could have changed it when they did put on the swastika but they didn’t.

my point is allot of different groups uses the word god or says that "god" is with them. its easy to make people do what you want if you say that

Just like Hezbollah.....Fascists think alike!

[Clearday-TRForce]

I liked your post, it was well written and logical. I know that Islam, as it was meant to be, is not a bad religion-certainly no worse than any other that we have. It is little things, like your post, that remind me of this from time to time when all you see is the negative and ignorant.

That is one of the biggest problems facing Islam, IMHO, is that is all the media attention you get: rioting, bombings, insane rants, beheadings, ect. Anyone of the slightest intelligence knows that these things do not represent your religion, but these things are what is being associated with it through the acts of these people-"in the name of Islam."

The rest of the Muslims desperately need to step forth and remind the rest of the world that not everyone of the Islamic faith is like this. Show the rest of the world what you would like them to see as the true nature. Take where you live, for example. Istanbul is a beautiful place with a rich history and good people. A view of the "normal" Muslims in their day to day lives in your city would do wonders. Show everyone that not all Muslims are insane zealots on their way to their next suicide bombing.

As far as the Pope's comment is concerned, you must see the irony to the reaction of violence to the suggestion that Islam is a violent religion. I had said earlier that the reactions of burning/bombing/rioting had hundreds of times more negative effect on Islam then anything the Pope could have said. It is easy to explain away that these people do not represent "true" Islam, but they are Muslims nonetheless. Counter what you see as false with what you would like to show as true.

One other thing that may help: if you say that "Islam is Islam," then perhaps the Muslim nations could stop offering them protection as Muslims. If they are not representative of Islam, then why protect them as brothers? If I were a Catholic, and a crazy faction of them started acting out the way the Islamic fanatics have, I would be the first in line to help get rid of them. Just something to contemplate.

I truely hope that Islam and the West can coexist happily, but it will never happen without education on both sides and the eradication of the extremists that commit these acts in the name of Islam.

Rant over, Cheers


Thanks Praetorian6, same on you.


they are not representative of Islam, then why protect them as brothers?

Yes, they are not representative of Islam. I personally (and our country,generally)dont protect any mullahs, unwise people who to use Islam for their self-interests. They are not my religion's members. This is my view and I will always keep it alive.

Both Pope and unwise Mullahs,extremists attitude, in my opinion, is quite unjustified. Whatever problems we have, we can solve them if we have will power,otherwise wherever we go, we'll meet by horrible results. It is not accidental that people in modern world,societies, with their strong sense of individual personality, express themselves in science and literature together, but these extremists education level is very low than we know here. And it easily reflects to our lives. The more I want to say we do not need any more blood in the world with forcing something, we need learning period, tolerance period under heavy control, security. I am really upset the world that we see doesnt seem so sceneful,delicious. Now it is more dangerous than 10 years ago, more furtive enemies around.

And others sometimes choose to blame others. It gets more and more complicated and hard.

Mullahs still overact and exaggragate everything, some western media and Papa do same. So where is logical people? among them? if it is, we need them to diminish all same scenarios at the same time from both side.

And, two of the main procedures carried out by chemists are analysis and synthesis. Analysis is finding out exactly what a substance consists of in terms of mixtures,compounds and elements. Synthesis is making complex materials from simpler ones. Such complex materials include plastics and synthetic fibres. In both analysis and synthesis it is often necessary to separate solids from liquids. Some solid substances seem to disappear when they are mixed with a liquid. They dissolve to form a solution, as when salt dissolves in water to form a salt solution.

So, what is my intention to say all of these, easy;

-mullahs-extremists-talibans-bla blas...
-Islam

there are two absolutely different things. The more we need to gain true side of information from books, respected scientists, writers. Not from TV shows.

There are no;

-Islamic terrorism
-Islamofacists
-Islamic militants

There are,

-Terrorists
-Facists
-Militants.


These terrorists,facists,militants try to hijack Islam for their money/statu/protect the current-future position. And some countries use this situation for their political benefit, attempts to taint the image of Islam in the interest of global politics. No more...

And their Lord has accepted of them and answered them, “Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, whether male or female, you are members, one of another…” (3:195; see also 33:35)

O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: For God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that you do. (4:135)

Whoever chooses to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good; and whoever goes astray, goes but astray to his own hurt; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden (17:15)

"There is no compulsion in religion; Truth stands out clear from Error." (2:256). Thus, the rights of Muslims and non-Muslims alike in expressions of faith is guaranteed, not only in theory but in practice as the Qur’an states: "O you who believe! Be ever Steadfast in your devotion to God, bearing witness to the truth in all equity; and never let the hatred of others lead you into the sin of deviating from justice. Be just: This is the closest to being conscious of God." (5:81)

"Verily for all men and women who have surrendered themselves unto God, and all believing men and believing women, and all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves before God, and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, and all men and women who remmber God unceasingly: for all of them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward." (33:35)



So where are all mullah-extremists views in these versus? no where? yeah nowhere. Mullahs,extremists cannot represent Islam,they have no information about it. No right to say something in behalf of Islam.




best wishes,
CDTRF

[jojo]

Clearday, I cannot agree when you say that there are no "Islamic terrorists/militants" etc, but only terrorists and militants. It is they themselves who loudly claim that they do what they do "in the name of Islam", and that their aims are "death to the infidel", the destruction of Israel and the Western world, and the Islamification of that world. We don't need to label them, they've done it themselves.

[getl0st]

These terrorists,facists,militants try to hijack Islam for their money/statu/protect the current-future position. And some countries use this situation for their political benefit, attempts to taint the image of Islam in the interest of global politics. No more...


Hey, I think we're all pretty much converted here.

Ideally, these hijackers of Islam really need to be dealt with by the Islamic World.

The problem is, if the West has to go in to take out the nut jobs, we're probably going to be a lot more indescriminite than those that live next door to these nut cases.

Iraq is a classic example. It should never have been up to the US to invade Iraq to get rid of Saddam. The Iraqi people should have got rid of him themselves.

The problem for the Islamic World, is if we have a repeat of anything like 9/11 or worse, all hell is probably going to break out on the Islamic World.

Take it from us in the West, we're had a gutfull of seeing these D!ckheads on TV every second night threatening to blow us up, etc.

[One?]

oh now alot of groups use the word god oh noe why dont you check out the lords army or better yet GODS ARMY (evanglists in palestine).

[Hollis]

oh now alot of groups use the word god oh noe why dont you check out the lords army or better yet GODS ARMY (evanglists in palestine).


No big, but god is a generic term. It is not name of anything. More a pseudo name. example, Zeus is a name, Zeus was a god to ancient Greeks.

[dimasorokine]

Your talking out your arse again, otherwise show proof that US media has described muslims as "subhumans"

Oh kilgor, how I love arguing with you :)

I did not say the media discribes Muslims as subhumans, I said it's in favor of the US governments interests to make them look that way - not sure if you get that.

Show suicide bombings, violent rallies and leave the peaceful Muslims out of the media - what does that make the Muslims look like? They did the same to the Soviet Union, it's nothing new and every nation does this to their enemies.

Most Muslims I know (I know quite a few) are against terrorism and extremists. Their kind of boring though, so they don't make the news.

-Dima

[Hollis]

Oh kilgor, how I love arguing with you :)

I did not say the media discribes Muslims as subhumans, I said it's in favor of the US governments interests to make them look that way - not sure if you get that.

-Dima

President Bush, has committed a lot of political energy discribing Islam as a religion of Peace and that this "conflict" is not about religion.

Even Bill Clinton says Iraq is not about religion. IMHO that is not presenting anything that says Muslims are subhumans.......... But the oppostite.

[darkhon]

According to Darwin - not really.

ask Einstein, too: "As long as there is man there will be wars."

and he thought that my religion (Buddhist) could probably put an end to all of this mess.

LMD RTFM, stupid

Buddhism is NOT a religion.

[Hollis]

LMD RTFM, stupid

Buddhism is NOT a religion.


Are you planning on re-writting the dictionary?

"Buddhism (also known as Buddha Dharma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_%28Buddhism%29), "the teachings of the awakened one") is a religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion), a way of life, a practical philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy), and arguably a discipline of psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology)"

Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

[darkhon]

Buddhism=no wars
Buddhist=warrior monk

Do you know the difference between warrior and soldier?

[darkhon]

Are you planning on re-writting the dictionary?

"Buddhism (also known as Buddha Dharma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_%28Buddhism%29), "the teachings of the awakened one") is a religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion), a way of life, a practical philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy), and arguably a discipline of psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology)"

Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

I don't plan to prove 2x2=4 to ignoramuses.

Buddhism can be used as a religion, but it does not make it one.
Buddhism is NOT a religion. Because there is no God in Buddhism. Dixi.

[Hollis]

I don't plan to prove 2x2=4 to ignoramuses.

Buddhism can be used as a religion, but it does not make it one.
Buddhism is NOT a religion. Because there is no God in Buddhism. Dixi.


Ok, Hey how about those 49ers?

[dimasorokine]

President Bush, has committed a lot of political energy discribing Islam as a religion of Peace and that this "conflict" is not about religion.

Even Bill Clinton says Iraq is not about religion. IMHO that is not presenting anything that says Muslims are subhumans.......... But the oppostite.

What the President says I agree with you on, what is shown in the media is different...

Besides, the presedint can't just come out and say what he feels - he must be as politically correct as possible,

-Dima

[darkhon]

Ok, Hey how about those 49ers?


49ers?.....

[artistoli]

thier sword has to be matched with a sword, a gun with a gun!

Exactly. Nothing else needs to be said with regards to how we must treat Islam.