News for the masses-04/06/04

[Skaman]

Fresh Iraq threats add to US woes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3599595.stm

Iraq's war after the war

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3524640.stm

Bush Needs to Hear, Not Shun, World Critics

http://www.cato.org/dailys/04-02-04.html

US struggles to quell Iraq revolt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3604941.stm

Should junk food ads be banned?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3586585.stm

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/

[EvanL]

Found anything positive today? Or are you just picking out the bad news?

[Skaman]

Found anything positive today? Or are you just picking out the bad news?


I forgot to stop by at www.rainbowhappyland.com

[Vance]

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/
That dude can kiss my ass.

[EvanL]

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/
That dude can kiss my ass.
Vance. You need to grow the **** up and pay attention. The west was responsible for the genocide in rwanda. If we sent troops their it would have quelled at least half of the violence. But we never did. And hundreds of thousands died. the fact that you are cursing at Gen. Romeo Dallaire, just goes to show how ****ing jaded you are. This guy put his life on the line personally to save Rwandan lives. What have you accomplished in your life? Your 16. Study up on this. Maybe it will help to make you a better person, cus you sure need some help doing that.

[Skaman]

Gen. Romeo Dallaire is a GREAT man.

[American Patriot]

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/

Has there been a worse president than the lying scumbag Clinton in recent times? I'd have to look really hard. What is amazing is that the American sheep gave him a second term. Never again!

[front]

"“The international community didn’t give one damn for Rwandans because Rwanda was a country of no strategic importance,” Canadian General Romeo Dallaire told a conference in Kigali marking the 10th anniversary of the slaughter."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/

Can't argue with that truth.

cheers

front

[EvanL]

Hey Vance heres a little slap of knowledge for you. Maybe it can help thin out that thick layer of bone around your brain.


The odour of death
Dallaire describes torment of Rwandan experience
By KEVIN WARD / The Canadian Press

LONDON - The old file he was reading contained the slightest whiff of his office in Rwanda, but for Romeo Dallaire the minute odour brought back the stench of death that enveloped him 10 years ago.

"It stayed in the paper," he recalled of a moment that stopped him cold as he worked on his book, Shake Hands with the Devil - the Failure of Humanity in Rwanda.

"It took over three weeks and a lot of convincing by my therapists to get me back at the book, because the odour in the office was the prevailing odour of death. I mean, it was all over. It was sort of glued to the page."

Hailed for his courage in trying to prevent the slaughter of more than 800,000 men, women and children in Rwanda, Dallaire has had his health blighted by the genocide he witnessed a decade ago.

But now, he is back to the point where he can function normally, something he partly attributes to writing the book, which helped shake some of the demons that have tormented him over the last 10 years.

"I will never be what I was," Dallaire said in a recent interview at Canada House in London while en route to the Rwandan capital of Kigali to mark the 10th anniversary of the genocide at a ceremony on Wednesday.

"I'll never be able to achieve that, but I believe I am at a level where I can function quite reasonably."

Dallaire, 57, has accepted a fellowship at Harvard starting in September, where he will write about conflict resolution. He also works as an adviser to the Canadian government on war-affected children and child soldiers.

Dallaire was force commander of the UN Assistance Mission for Rwanda in 1994 when what was thought to be a civil war became much more sinister.

In a 100-day period after the president's plane was shot down, Rwanda's Hutus tried to wipe out the minority Tutsi population. Although the majority of those murdered were Tutsis - many hacked to death with machetes - politically moderate Hutus and others were also massacred.

Dallaire repeatedly told the UN that he needed more troops and a change in his orders to allow those under his command to use force to stop the slayings.

But the UN didn't take notice and cut its peacekeeping force of about 2,500 soldiers. If the multinational contingent had been doubled instead, Dallaire is confident he could have prevented the bloodbath.

Dallaire's time was in demand during his stay in London. He has just finished an interview with a Dutch television station, an appointment that overran its allotted time by at least 45 minutes, but Dallaire patiently plows on with his schedule.

Dressed in a grey suit, his Order of Canada pin on his left lapel, Dallaire leans forward from the couch where he is seated when he wants to emphasize a point, which he does when he lays blame for Rwanda at the feet of Britain, France and the United States.

Dallaire is convinced that the three permanent members of the UN Security Council had all the intelligence they needed to act in Rwanda but chose to do nothing.

"This was simply a low-priority exercise to which no one had any interest. They were up to their ears in Yugoslavia and Cambodia and God knows what else," he said.

In January, Dallaire testified at the UN Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, where lawyers for the men accused of genocide and crimes against humanity tried to portray Dallaire's recollection as muddled because of the post-traumatic stress he suffered.

Dallaire describes his experience at the tribunal's hearings in Tunisia as gut-wrenching, especially seeing Col. Theoneste Bagosora, who is accused of masterminding the slaughter when he seized control of the country after the president's death on April 6, 1994. Bagosora denies the charges.

Dallaire said preparing to see Bagosora was his third descent into hell. The first was witnessing the genocide and the second writing the book, which was published last fall.

At times, Dallaire said he wanted to walk away from the book, but he was persuaded to keep at it by Maj. Brent Beardsley, who served with him in Rwanda.

Beardsley told him that without the book, his grandchildren would never know the truth of what happened in Rwanda.

"That argument was exceptionally strong," said Dallaire, who is married and has three grown children.

But after a suicide attempt and a series of mental breakdowns, Dallaire wasn't sure he would be able to complete the project.

"I was very fearful that papers and also my memory would be affected because of the medications and stuff like that, and so it would never be written and would die with me," he explained.

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, who was responsible for UN peacekeeping in 1994, recently paid tribute to Dallaire for his desperate attempts to get more soldiers sent to Rwanda.

"There was more that I should have done to sound the alarm," Annan said in a message to a conference on the genocide in London that included Dallaire among the featured speakers.

"The political will was not there and neither were the troops."

Ten years later, Dallaire doesn't think the world would react much differently if another Rwanda were to emerge.

He isn't completely pessimistic about the future, however. Remembering a starving young boy he helped in Rwanda whose entire family was wiped out in the genocide, Dallaire explains his hope.

"We will ultimately eliminate conflict due to our differences, because ultimately we will realize that we are exactly the same," he said. "The three-year-old Rwandan kid on that road was absolutely no different from my three-year-old. They were both human children."

[Vance]

I know what the ****ing Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this ****ed up world.

[Merik]

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/

Has there been a worse president than the lying scumbag Clinton in recent times? I'd have to look really hard. What is amazing is that the American sheep gave him a second term. Never again!

I definitly have to agree with you American Patriot. Everyone just has to through dirt in every Bush supporter's face when Clinton was the one who made us look like cowards.

[EvanL]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. I like to say it was the WORLD'S fault.
Your just pissed cus by the west you think they mean the americans. Dont get so heated so soon.
The West is the only ones that could have helped prevent this. And they didnt. So it is the wests fault. Not the worlds.

[EvanL]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.

[Vance]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. I like to say it was the WORLD'S fault.
Your just pissed cus by the west you think they mean the americans.
You're wrong damnit, stop assuming things that aren't true.

[Vance]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?

[Skaman]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:

[TALOS]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. I like to say it was the WORLD'S fault.
Your just pissed cus by the west you think they mean the americans. Dont get so heated so soon.
The West is the only ones that could have helped prevent this. And they didnt. So it is the wests fault. Not the worlds.
Actually there are a lot of nations not in the west that have the money if not the manpower to help out, but generally speaking it tends to fall on us in the west, and then when we do do something all the people star crying imperialism. :(

[Vance]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.

[Skaman]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.


Could, but wont. Thus, its up to the West.

[Vance]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.


Could, but wont. Thus, its up to the West.
Once we start accidentally killing civilians and/or we stay too long, you'll start crying American imperialism and anti-American hate, just like you're doing now in Iraq. No matter what we do we always get blamed. So why try?

[Skaman]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.


Could, but wont. Thus, its up to the West.
Once we start accidentally killing civilians and/or we stay too long, you'll start crying American imperialism and anti-American hate, just like you're doing now in Iraq. No matter what we do we always get blamed. So why try?


AGAIN< the WEST IS NOT AMERICA. I support a joint Canadian, Commonwealth, Euro effort which would succeed. Additionally, there is not much indication of imperialist interest in Rwanda; just as the world did not scold the USA for their small efforts in Liberia.

[Vance]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.


Could, but wont. Thus, its up to the West.
Once we start accidentally killing civilians and/or we stay too long, you'll start crying American imperialism and anti-American hate, just like you're doing now in Iraq. No matter what we do we always get blamed. So why try?


AGAIN< the WEST IS NOT AMERICA. I support a joint Canadian, Commonwealth, Euro effort which would succeed. Additionally, there is not much indication of imperialist interest in Rwanda; just as the world did not scold the USA for their small efforts in Liberia.
WHOS THE BIGGEST BOY ON THE WESTERN BLOCK? Yeah, that's right, we are.

[Vance]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.


Could, but wont. Thus, its up to the West.
Once we start accidentally killing civilians and/or we stay too long, you'll start crying American imperialism and anti-American hate, just like you're doing now in Iraq. No matter what we do we always get blamed. So why try?


AGAIN< the WEST IS NOT AMERICA. I support a joint Canadian, Commonwealth, Euro effort which would succeed.
Yeah, you do that.



Additionally, there is not much indication of imperialist interest in Rwanda; just as the world did not scold the USA for their small efforts in Liberia
Are you sure that wasn't for wheat or something? :roll:

[Skaman]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.


Could, but wont. Thus, its up to the West.
Once we start accidentally killing civilians and/or we stay too long, you'll start crying American imperialism and anti-American hate, just like you're doing now in Iraq. No matter what we do we always get blamed. So why try?


AGAIN< the WEST IS NOT AMERICA. I support a joint Canadian, Commonwealth, Euro effort which would succeed. Additionally, there is not much indication of imperialist interest in Rwanda; just as the world did not scold the USA for their small efforts in Liberia.
WHOS THE BIGGEST BOY ON THE WESTERN BLOCK? Yeah, that's right, we are.


And the arrogant child has officially ended the conversation.

[MaDuce]

Should we have gone to Rawnda...I don't know prolly. But I disaaggree that if the west can prevent but doesnt that they are at fault.

[Vance]

I know what the f*** Rwanda Genocide is. I'm just tired of everyone always blaming the west and nobody else. If anything, it was the WORLD'S fault.


EDIT: And is the West the ONLY part of the world capable of quelling violence in far-off lands?? There are like 35 countries in Africa, couldn't they do it themselves??? Jesus Christ, it's like we have to do EVERYTHING in this f*** up world.
YES! You see cus most of Africa is third world and dealing with their own problems.
What about all the Asian countries? Or even f*cking Russia?


When was the last time Russia engaged in Peace Keeping In Africa? :cantbeli:
I'm saying even Russia could of gone in there and stopped it.


Could, but wont. Thus, its up to the West.
Once we start accidentally killing civilians and/or we stay too long, you'll start crying American imperialism and anti-American hate, just like you're doing now in Iraq. No matter what we do we always get blamed. So why try?


AGAIN< the WEST IS NOT AMERICA. I support a joint Canadian, Commonwealth, Euro effort which would succeed. Additionally, there is not much indication of imperialist interest in Rwanda; just as the world did not scold the USA for their small efforts in Liberia.
WHOS THE BIGGEST BOY ON THE WESTERN BLOCK? Yeah, that's right, we are.


And the arrogant child has officially ended the conversation.
You're no better.

[SeanAshi]

The West is the only ones that could have helped prevent this. And they didnt. So it is the wests fault. Not the worldsThe world shares the blame, not just the west Evan, the rest of the world are not ****ing helpless and impotent, they could have helped in some way or another but they didn't.

[Haiw]

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/

Has there been a worse president than the lying scumbag Clinton in recent times? I'd have to look really hard. What is amazing is that the American sheep gave him a second term. Never again!
Yeah...Clinton should have intervened in Rwanda, just like Bush did in Congo. Or like how Bush is fighting a furious fight against the regime in Zimbabwe. I'm not saying Clinton was right in his action, but it's unfair to say that no other president before or after him ignored genocide at times...

And sadly enough that goes for us Europeans as well. :(
Oh and people...come on. The west is NOT JUST the US. Geez. Quit taking everything so personal, and learn to take the blame where it's yours.

[Skaman]

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/

Has there been a worse president than the lying scumbag Clinton in recent times? I'd have to look really hard. What is amazing is that the American sheep gave him a second term. Never again!
Yeah...Clinton should have intervened in Rwanda, just like Bush did in Congo. Or like how Bush is fighting a furious fight against the regime in Zimbabwe. I'm not saying Clinton was right in his action, but it's unfair to say that no other president before or after him ignored genocide at times...

And sadly enough that goes for us Europeans as well. :(
Oh and people...come on. The west is NOT JUST the US. Geez. Quit taking everything so personal, and learn to take the blame where it's yours.


Simple, Concise and to the point. Well said.

[rob]

West 'criminally responsible' on Rwanda

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4668624/
That dude can kiss my ass.
Vance. You need to grow the f*** up and pay attention. The west was responsible for the genocide in rwanda. If we sent troops their it would have quelled at least half of the violence. But we never did. And hundreds of thousands died.

that makes us responsible how? im sorry but if you see a fight break out and do nothing to stop it are u responsible?

[SeanAshi]

Blame the Hutu extremists

[Haiw]

Blame the Hutus, blame the Tutsis; they both slaughtered each other. However, we just sad by and watched while we HAD the power to stop it. But we did nothing. We could have prevented (or at least stopped) genocide, but we choose to just read about it in the papers. That makes us VERY responsible.

[rob]

did we cause the genocide? no, so we are not responsible. not one except for those that where killing each other where responsible.

could we have helped sure, but that doesnt make us in anyway, shape or form responsible for the events that happened there.

u said your self that russia didnt do anything, wouldnt that mean they are resbonsible as well. and all the other countries, hell maybe u and i are personally responsible because we didnt jump on a plane and try to solve everything.

[Laworkerbee]

And why must American's bleed to stop Hutus and Tutsis from slaughtering each other?

where is it in our national interest?

Perhaps if the United Nations had a clear mandate on the use of force, and put some real firepower behind thier forces out there instead, this wouldnt have happened. Though after Yugoslavia who's to say?, the UN stood by while countless atrocities took place and did nothing!.

[SeanAshi]

Blame the Hutus, blame the Tutsis; they both slaughtered each other. However, we just sad by and watched while we HAD the power to stop itYour right, if it were up to me I would have had American troops there immediately, but of course its not and shame on us for not preventing and stopping the genocide that occured.

[Haiw]

did we cause the genocide? no, so we are not responsible. not one except for those that where killing each other where responsible.

could we have helped sure, but that doesnt make us in anyway, shape or form responsible for the events that happened there.

u said your self that russia didnt do anything, wouldnt that mean they are resbonsible as well. and all the other countries, hell maybe u and i are personally responsible because we didnt jump on a plane and try to solve everything.
Well back then Russia wasn't exactely looking too good.

Now let's just give this hypothetical situation. Two groups of people are about to get in a fight in a bar. Now you have a gun, and can make them stay away from eachother so the peace will be preserved. Yet you do nothing and some people die because of that. You choose NOT to interfere and thus some people died. Basically because of your lack of action those people died. Because your of your action of saying '**** them' and keep drinking your beer those people died. Now that makes you damn ****ing responsible in my book. Not as responsible as the two groups, but still responsible.

[5jumpchump]

Damned if we do , damned if we don't . Look at Haiti . I was there in operation restore democracy . When I first got there the money trade was 33 Haitian dollars equaled 1 US dollar . After we pumped 35.8 million dollars into the economy it was 11 to 1 . I personally helped , along with my platoon , download 41 tones of medical supplies , pots and pans , blankets and other humanitarian aid . We did missions like cash for weapons . Basically we bought as many weapons off the street as we possibly could . Get this , we gave out $300 us dollars for a beat up AK47 from the 60's . That's roughly 10,000 Haitian dollars ! Afterwards we dropped all the weapons of at a depot yard . I'm not ****ting you , there was a row of 12 conex ( shipping containers ) filled with weapons . Piles and mounds of grenades , anti tank mines , mortars , TNT - you name it we bought it . We did one hell of an operation there . We hooked that place the F up . Now look at it , right back were they started .
Yeah we could have helped Rwanda . We could have temporarily stopped a genocide . But these guys have been fighting for hundreds of years . What the hell are we to do about it . Military force won't stop the fighting . This **** is in their heads , filled with hate and revenge . The fighting there will never stop , ever . Until there’s a winner . Perhaps a genocide is the ONLY thing that will end it all . Sad but maybe true :|

[yellowking]

Blame the Hutus, blame the Tutsis; they both slaughtered each other. However, we just sad by and watched while we HAD the power to stop it.
This is probably true, although the Hutus did the vast majority of the killing. You can't blame the West for the actual genocide, but there is obviously a case to be made that the West did not do enough to stop it. In the case of the US, Clinton and Albright did everything they could to avoid intervening, including debating the definition of the term "genocide," (I believe that was from the book "Me Against My Brother," but I can't find my copy) probably due to how Somalia turned out. The Hutu "extremists" were low-tech even by any third world standard. These guys did their killing largely with knives and sharp sticks. Any decent military presence on the ground probably would have saved thousands of lives, if not hundreds of thousands.

That said, the French WERE there, did jack squat. In fact, many accuse them of complicity. (random link from Google: http://hippercritical.typepad.com/hipp/2004/03/french_complici.html. ) From what I've read, it was mostly things like keeping Tutsis in refugee camps even when they knew Hutu extremists were coming, and failing to prevent the HE from reaching Tutsi victims.

[rob]

did we cause the genocide? no, so we are not responsible. not one except for those that where killing each other where responsible.

could we have helped sure, but that doesnt make us in anyway, shape or form responsible for the events that happened there.

u said your self that russia didnt do anything, wouldnt that mean they are resbonsible as well. and all the other countries, hell maybe u and i are personally responsible because we didnt jump on a plane and try to solve everything.
Well back then Russia wasn't exactely looking too good.

Now let's just give this hypothetical situation. Two groups of people are about to get in a fight in a bar. Now you have a gun, and can make them stay away from eachother so the peace will be preserved. Yet you do nothing and some people die because of that. You choose NOT to interfere and thus some people died. Basically because of your lack of action those people died. Because your of your action of saying 'f*** them' and keep drinking your beer those people died. Now that makes you damn f*** responsible in my book. Not as responsible as the two groups, but still responsible.

**** i wouldnt do anything just mind my business. they are drunk you dont know how they would react or how everyone else will react. if they fight you are not responsible for ANYTHING if you just watch them, but if you interfer and end up having to shoot one and the rest get out of hand, then you become responsible.

[Haiw]

Quit ripping on the hypothetical example and get to the point. We had the power to interfere. But we didn't. It's that black & white. A LOT of people died because we chose to just let them die. That's responsibility in my book. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. :|

[EvanL]

You guys seem to only associate the west with the United States? There is more than one country in the west. The reason i got so pissed off in the first place is cus vance, using all 3 brain cells of his, decided to say how he wants a well respected General to kiss his ass, cus for some reason he doesnt like his opinion.
Its kids like Vance that give ppl the impression that americans are ignorant and self-centred. And for gods sake we know that isnt true.
But to say that the west, U.S. included, could not have stopped the Rwandan genocide, YES GENOCIDE!, from happening, is completely wrong....and immoral.

[EvanL]

If anything its the UN who is most at fault.
There is a charter written after WW2, that talks about how the UN shall never allow another genocide to happen. And in all of its glory, it decided to turn its back on the Rwandan ppl.

[rob]

WE COULD HAVE STOPPED THE GENOCIDE, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE US RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GENOCIDE WHICH WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH.



it is that black and white.

[Truthsayer]

It doesn't make us responsible for the genocide, but damn well responsible for not stopping it and allowing it to go on.

Get it?

[Flagg]

The west was responsible for the genocide in rwanda.

I believe it was the machete armed Hutu's that actually did the slaughtering....not "the west"


But to say that the west, U.S. included, could not have stopped the Rwandan genocide, YES GENOCIDE!, from happening, is completely wrong....and immoral.

No you're wrong.......could the west have intervened and MINIMISED the genocide? Certainly, but was it preventable? I think not....a political/military intervention will never eradicate pent up ethnic rage.

And the extremely short time frame in which this terrible event occurred certainly didn't help matters....unilateral intervention may have further minimised suffering, but I think we have seen how popular that approach is around the globe.

[Ichhabe]

Can only speak for myself: I felt ashamed when all I could do was sitting by the TV and watched what was happening.
And when I saw the colour pictures of massacered people being bulldozed in to mass graves I almost puked. That was images that I was only "familiar" with in black and white images.
I was actually so naive that I thought the world would never see such gruosome pictures ever again.

And what did the world community do? We just sat on our asses watching it.

Trying to blame the USA, EU, or any other country is actually stupid. The blame is upon all man kind, where ever whenever for letting this just go by. Shame to all of us, forever!

[EvanL]

The west was responsible for the genocide in rwanda.

I believe it was the machete armed Hutu's that actually did the slaughtering....not "the west"


But to say that the west, U.S. included, could not have stopped the Rwandan genocide, YES GENOCIDE!, from happening, is completely wrong....and immoral.

No you're wrong.......could the west have intervened and MINIMISED the genocide? Certainly, but was it preventable? I think not....a political/military intervention will never eradicate pent up ethnic rage.

And the extremely short time frame in which this terrible event occurred certainly didn't help matters....unilateral intervention may have further minimised suffering, but I think we have seen how popular that approach is around the globe.
Sorry i wrote that too quickly. They couldnt have stopped the genocide. But they could have minimized the casualties.
Sorry for the mix up.

[Gordon]

I think Vance is probably just having a bad day, probably split up with his girl friend ... maybe, anyway, seems to me like he just needed somewhere to take out his misguided anger.