FOXNEWS:'Significant' Number of U.S. Deaths Reported in Iraq

[HELEX]

FALLUJAH, Iraq — An "extremely intense" battle is taking place in Ramadi (search), another Sunni Triangle hotbed of guerrilla activity 24 miles west of Fallujah, Pentagon and military officials told Fox News on Tuesday.

At least 100 fighters in the army of Muqtada al-Sadr (search), the fiery anti-American Shiite Muslim cleric wanted on a murder charge, charged a U.S.-led coalition compound, officials said.

A defense official told Fox News that there have been "significant" U.S. deaths from the fighting in Ramadi.

Fighting was so intense that commanders went to the unit headquarters to pull people who wouldn't normally fight into the combat, military sources said.

The fighting — the worst seen in the area or Iraq in recent months — has left some American casualties, officials said. One Marine estimated some 80 people were killed in initial exchanges but it was unclear how many of those were Iraqi. Further details about the extent of casualties were not immediately known.

"This is not like any other firefight we've seen so far," military sources in Iraq said. "There are bullets flying all over the place."

A U.S. official in Washington said all American officials in Iraq, including those working for the Coalition Provisional Authority (search), have been told since Monday to remain inside their compounds due to security worries.

Meanwhile, al-Sadr, sought by U.S. and Iraqi forces, announced Tuesday that he had left the mosque in the city of Kufa, south of Baghdad, where he has been holed up for the past two days, surrounded by armed militiamen.

U.S. administrators on Monday declared al-Sadr an "outlaw" and announced a warrant for his arrest. He was demanding to speak to high-level coalition officials Tuesday and said he would not negotiate his surrender.

Operation Vigilant Resolve Moves Into Fallujah

Ramadi is located west of Fallujah in the southwestern corner of the so-called Sunni Triangle, which is full of Saddam Hussein loyalists. Fallujah is the city where four American civilians were killed last week and their corpses mutilated by a cheering mob.

Earlier Tuesday, U.S. troops who were surrounding Fallujah began to move into the urban areas of the city, encountering heavy fire as they approached.

U.S. warplanes firing rockets destroyed four houses in the besieged city of Fallujah late Tuesday, witnesses said. A doctor said 26 Iraqis, including women and children, were killed and 30 wounded in the strike.

The rockets destroyed the houses in two neighborhoods in the city after nightfall Tuesday, the witnesses said.

Rafie al-Issawi, a doctor at Fallujah General Hospital, said the hospital received the bodies of 26 dead along with 30 wounded soon after. He said their wounds suggested they had been in the destroyed houses.

The deaths bring the total death toll among Iraqis in Fallujah on Tuesday to 34, including eight during heavy street fighting during the day.

About 1,300 U.S. Marines and more Iraqi forces are looking for those responsible for last week's mob attack. Known as Operation Vigilant Resolve (search), the hunt is on in the Anbar province (search), which stretches from Baghdad to the Jordanian and Syrian borders.

"It will be a methodical effort to find the individuals involved" in last week's grisly acts, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told reporters during a Pentagon briefing Tuesday.

Rumsfeld said U.S. troops have captured a number of people in Fallujah in the last 36 hours.

"They have photographs of a good many people who were involved in the attacks against the individuals and they have been conducting raids in the city against high-value targets," Rumsfeld said.

A force of Marines pushed into an eastern Fallujah neighborhood Tuesday, clashing with guerrillas; gunmen carrying automatic weapons were seen in the streets. Guerrilla gunfire set one vehicle ablaze and a soldier inside was killed, said witness Issam Mahmoud. There was no confirmation of the death.

Troops broke into houses in the neighborhood, carrying out searches, and entered a mosque, witnesses said.

On the northern side of Fallujah, eight Marines and one Navy Corpsman were on foot patrol when they came under fire from fighters in a three-story building 60 feet away. An RPG exploded nearby and about 100 AK-47 bullets were fired at them. One hit a Marine in the head and his comrades were called in for reinforcements and combat evacuation.

An Abrams tank, accompanied by a combined anti-armor team vehicle, came to the rescue, firing .50-caliber machine guns into the building for cover. The wounded Marine was successfully evacuated and his condition was improving. "He can talk, he'll make it," a Marine medic said.

Bush: 'We'll Stay the Course in Iraq'

Amid the new violence, President Bush vowed that the United States would stick to its timetable to turn over control of Iraq to an interim government on June 30.

"We'll stay the course in Iraq — we're not gonna be intimidated by thugs and assassins, we're not gonna cut and run," Bush said Tuesday in Arkansas. "We understand a free Iraq is a historic opportunity to make the world more peaceful."

L. Paul Bremer (search), the U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq, noted that in popular opinion polls, 90 percent or more of Iraqis support "a democratic Iraq where power comes not from the barrel of a gun."

"The political process is well under way with broad consultations with the Iraqi people. The interim government will be in place well before June 30," the date to hand over government operations to the Iraqis, Bremer told Fox News.

Elsewhere in Iraq

Among other recent developments:

— The military announced that on Monday, five Marines died in Fallujah and three U.S. soldiers of the 1st Armored Division were killed while patrolling Baghdad. Four out of the five Marines were not directly involved in the Fallujah operation and were killed by an improvised explosive device about 15 miles away near Abu Ghraib (search) prison.

— Soldiers from the 1st Infantry Division also conducted a raid near Baqubah Tuesday and captured 12 individuals, including the leader of the insurgent cell suspected of conducting attacks against coalition forces using improvised explosive devices.

— Fifteen Iraqis were killed in Nasiriyah (search) and another 15 were killed in Amarah, coalition military officials said.

— In Nasiriyah, fighting was reported Tuesday between Italian troops and al-Sadr backers. A coalition spokeswoman told the Italian media that at least 15 Iraqis were killed. She said insurgents used civilians as human shields, and two children and a woman were among the dead.

— A coalition spokesman said Tuesday that fighting overnight between al-Sadr followers and British troops in Amarah left 15 Iraqis dead and eight wounded.

— In Kut, a Ukrainian soldier was killed and five were wounded when militants attacked an armored personnel carrier, the Defense Ministry said. Ukraine has about 1,650 troops in Iraq, the third-largest contingent among countries that didn't take part in major combat operations.

— About 500 Japanese soldiers stationed in Samawah have been ordered to halt work on repairing roads and other humanitarian activities outside of their camp until after festivities for the Shiite holy day of Arbaeen on April 11, Kyodo News reported.

Fox News' Bret Baier, Steve Centanni and The Associated Press contributed to this report.


Not much Info so far, I will update this.....

[Trident-za]

I don't have access to international news, other than the net.... so I'd appreciate updates on this.

Hope it isn't as bad as it sounds :(

[MaDuce]

I think it was about 12 KIA and some more injured whitch yes is fairly sugnificant.

[wholagun]

Im curious as to how the body count for the enemy looks? I havn't seen any estimates or anything thus far.

[Trident-za]

Last estimate I saw as 118 iraqi dead in last 3 days. However, this figure is meaningless - this isnt conventional warfare so kill ratios don't mean much at all (other than for revenge purposes).

[SeanAshi]

150 reported on cnn

[HELEX]

From CNN:


Coalition battling insurgents in seven cities

Sounds like big ****..... :roll:

[XASA]

RIP

[MaDuce]

HELEX in Iraq of there are 5 house with at least 2 bathrooms its considerd a city most fighting is in 2-3 cities.

[Gordon]

HELEX in Iraq of there are 5 house with at least 2 bathrooms its considerd a city most fighting is in 2-3 cities.

If you are gonna take the mickey out of other people's spelling and grammar you should really make sure that yours is damn perfect ... ;)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11727

[HELEX]

FALLUJAH, Iraq — An "extremely intense" battle is taking place in Ramadi (search), another Sunni Triangle hotbed of guerrilla activity 24 miles west of Fallujah, and at least 12 U.S. Marines have been killed, Pentagon and military officials told Fox News on Tuesday.

[MaDuce]

I never said I typed good....?????? Or mocked anyone elses??

[American Patriot]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1130577,00.html


A Pentagon source has said up to 130 US troops have been killed in fierce fighting in Iraq.

[American Patriot]

That better a ****ing typo.

[Beowulf]

From CNN:


Coalition battling insurgents in seven cities

Sounds like big ****..... :roll:

You couldnt be happier could you...

[Trident-za]

That better a f*** typo.

Dammit, I hope it's a typo too :(

[scm77]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1130577,00.html


A Pentagon source has said up to 130 US troops have been killed in fierce fighting in Iraq.

That's supposed to be 13.

[HELEX]

You couldnt be happier could you...

No, I dont want to see anyone of the troops dead. They all had dreams what they want to do in the future... :(

RIP

[HELEX]

From Foxnews:


At Least 18 GIs Killed in Fierce Iraq Battles

[MaDuce]

Lol HELEX.Mustamato(sp) ain't that bad but there are some in thease forums that are that shallow.

[XASA]

Helex enjoys bad news in Iraq. He gets off on bad news. He enjoys provoking others with bad news. All he does is bombard militaryphotos.net with bad news.

Excuse my rant but Helex has been bad news every since he first started posting here. And when was the last time Ducimus and Mustamato posted any good news?

Aside from that, they are all insensitive assh***. But, hey, that's just my opinion ;) [/i]

[Beowulf]

Lol HELEX.Mustamato(sp) ain't that bad but there are some in thease forums that are that shallow.

aint that bad? what you smokin?

[HELEX]

You know that old media speaking: "Bad news are good news."

When was last time CNN was bringing good news from Iraq? :cantbeli:

[Beowulf]

You know that old media speaking: "Bad news are good news."

When was last time CNN was bringing good news from Iraq? :cantbeli:

so you're making money from the constant criticism of the coalition??

Oh no wait...you spend your own personal time doing this.

[Trident-za]

This thread should not degrade itself into an attack on Helex, or any other individuals. There are more important issues here - like the deaths of marines fighting for Helex's right to freedom of speech.

I'm not advocating Helex's posts, but this thread surely isn't the place to rant on about him :(

(No offence intended to anyone -just my thoughts)

[HELEX]

@Beowulf

I wrote at the beginning of this Topic:


Not much Info so far, I will update this.....

And that is what Im doing when I post these Numbers!

Further questions? :|

[usa320]

God bless them as they continue to stand steadfast in their duty.

We mustnt back out. There is only one acceptible outcome.

I think they need to really get more air support back up. After the major combat ended most the plans went home, leaving just a handful of A-10's, F-16's and AH-64's.

They need B-52's and F-15E's and all sorts of powerful **** raining hell on those insurgents. One thing the Iraqis ABSOLUTELY FEAR is American airpower, and i think that is one of many advantages we have. I think we were stupid though to keep using the humvee- i rather ride in an old rusty M-113 than an unarmored bonified SUV.

[Rantanplan]

Further questions?

Yes. Is modern dance music dead?

[Beowulf]

This thread should not degrade itself into an attack on Helex, or any other individuals. There are more important issues here - like the deaths of marines fighting for Helex's right to freedom of speech.

I'm not advocating Helex's posts, but this thread surely isn't the place to rant on about him :(

(No offence intended to anyone -just my thoughts)

You're right.

I will mention one thing however. There are no "rights" here. If hood decides tomorrow that only left handed people of asian descent can post here then that's what goes.

If someone is not contributing to the discussions in an intelligent manner then they won'n be contributing at all.

Helex, mustamato, ducimus, for example are fairly intelligent and well spoken. But it often appears that they are here for no other reason than to deride actions of this or that nation. That's what I don't like. Political flaming should not comprise the majority of anyone's posts.

If anyone needs a good example look no farther than Cali Joe, reigning king of off-topic, that "dutch guy" does a decent job as well. :D

[HELEX]

@USA


They need B-52's and F-15E's and all sorts of powerful **** raining hell on those insurgents. One thing the Iraqis ABSOLUTELY FEAR is American airpower, and i think that is one of many advantages we have. I think we were stupid though to keep using the humvee- i rather ride in an old rusty M-113 than an unarmored bonified SUV

The Fighting takes place in Urban areas, absolutely no good option....

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

They need B-52's and F-15E's and all sorts of powerful **** raining hell on those insurgents. One thing the Iraqis ABSOLUTELY FEAR is American airpower, and i think that is one of many advantages we have. I think we were stupid though to keep using the humvee- i rather ride in an old rusty M-113 than an unarmored bonified SUV.
Er.. this is mostly urban combat and I think the people directing air power in Iraq at this moment really do know what they are doing, I don't think a pass with a full complement of munitions from a 5-52 is really that clever. :|

[MaDuce]

Little birds work ok
HELEX has pissed me off on multiple occasions and really gotten my blood boiling . But people like Universal are much worse and actaully jump with joy when Amercians die. And alsothis other guy I forgot the name there location is in longatude and latiude. He sounded like a Mullah

[Beowulf]

@USA


They need B-52's and F-15E's and all sorts of powerful **** raining hell on those insurgents. One thing the Iraqis ABSOLUTELY FEAR is American airpower, and i think that is one of many advantages we have. I think we were stupid though to keep using the humvee- i rather ride in an old rusty M-113 than an unarmored bonified SUV

The Fighting takes place in Urban areas, absolutely no good option....

Right, it's tough no matter what you do. Therre are going to be families living there. Obviously you want to be as precise as possibly, yet you can't take excessive risks with soldiers lives. The leadership has a very difficult job...

[Trident-za]

You're right.

I will mention one thing however. There are no "rights" here. If hood decides tomorrow that only left handed people of asian descent can post here then that's what goes.

If someone is not contributing to the discussions in an intelligent manner then they won'n be contributing at all.

Helex, mustamato, ducimus, for example are fairly intelligent and well spoken. But it often appears that they are here for no other reason than to deride actions of this or that nation. That's what I don't like. Political flaming should not comprise the majority of anyone's posts.

If anyone needs a good example look no farther than Cali Joe, reigning king of off-topic, that "dutch guy" does a decent job as well. :D

Agreed on all the above - I'll just add that political flaming is hardly rare here, on BOTH sides of the fence.

[XASA]

Being the attention whore that Helex is, the only way to have his presence acknowledged is to be provocative. Look at the number of posts, then look at how many of his posts are made to simply start a flame war. For awhile, Ducimus had been posting as if he had a brain. Recently, however, perhaps emboldened by Helex, he has been back to his old tricks as if he was working for the Baathist Party. We all know Mustamato's views on the world because he's posted them a hundred times. B-O-R-I-N-G.

Anyone else see a pattern. Remember how many posts Sixgun and Albanian made a day and how many were simply made to start sh**? What is it about the Internet that triggers the need to incite and instigate strictly for argument's sake? Weird.

[ibstolidude]

@USA


They need B-52's and F-15E's and all sorts of powerful **** raining hell on those insurgents. One thing the Iraqis ABSOLUTELY FEAR is American airpower, and i think that is one of many advantages we have. I think we were stupid though to keep using the humvee- i rather ride in an old rusty M-113 than an unarmored bonified SUV

The Fighting takes place in Urban areas, absolutely no good option....

Right, it's tough no matter what you do. Therre are going to be families living there. Obviously you want to be as precise as possibly, yet you can't take excessive risks with soldiers lives. The leadership has a very difficult job...

This reminds of something

"How did you know they were Taliban?"

"yeah, well, because, if they weren't Taliban we wouldn't have killed 'em would we?"

[Trigger]

As far as flame wars go, I know I have played a signifcant role in some. I don't start them, but I will not sit idly by when someone starts in with the same old anti-U.S. rhetoric.

[MaDuce]

Albainian and Permeski will burn you all in any flame war.

[FallenAngel]

New total from AP

12 Marines dead in Fallujah, plus one US Army and one Ukrainian dead in Baghdad....

RIP

[SeanAshi]

What todo with Al-Sadr? We can't allow him to continue with what he is doing now, if we arrest or kill him it would be just as bad hmm....

[FallenAngel]

Also....15 dead and 35 wounded Iraqis in Nasiriyah in gun battles with Italian troops. 11 Italians were wounded

in Amarah British forces killed another 15 Iraqis and wounded 8.

All the attacking Iraqis are associated with AL-Sadr's militia

[MaDuce]

What todo with Al-Sadr? We can't allow him to continue with what he is doing now, if we arrest or kill him it would be just as bad hmm....

How will be just has bad he instagated several murders and maintains an anti government militia.

[usa320]

The Fighting takes place in Urban areas, absolutely no good option....In mid 2000, the CIA had a clear opportunity to capture or Kill Osama Bin Laden. President Clinton refused to let them make the take down because of concerns over collateral damage. And what a mistake that was.

What im saying is if we get a chance to off Al Sadr, we need to do it now, because just like Saddam he wont stay in one spot for long.

[SerbPVO]

How do you know? Did CNN tell you that?
:roll:

[Salty Dog]

the **** is really really starting to hit the fan now... :(

[ibstolidude]

BEO check PM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FallenAngel]

What im saying is if we get a chance to off Al Sadr, we need to do it now, because just like Saddam he wont stay in one spot for long.

You're right....

He's moved closer to the fighting. He WANTS to be killed by the Americans.


Fearing a U.S. move to arrest him, al-Sadr on Tuesday left a fortress-like mosque in the city of Kufa, south of Baghdad, where he had been holed up for days, his aides said.





Al-Sadr issued a statement saying he was ready to die to oust the Americans. He urged his followers to resist foreign forces.

"America has shown its evil intentions, and the proud Iraqi people cannot accept it. They must defend their rights by any means they see fit," the al-Sadr statement said.

"I'm prepared to have my own blood shed for what is holy to me," he said.

Al-Sadr moved to his main office in Najaf, in an alley near the city's holiest shrine, according to a top aide, Sheik Qays al-Khaz'ali. Hundreds of militiamen were protecting the office Tuesday, but there was no independent confirmation al-Sadr was there.

Perhaps more worrisome than the current fight with al-Sadr's forces is


By killing him, the US proves him right in the eyes of his followers. They should arrest him...although the price would be high in American blood probably

[Gordon]

U.S. warplanes firing rockets destroyed four houses in the besieged city of Fallujah late Tuesday ...


I think they need to really get more air support back up. After the major combat ended most the plans went home, leaving just a handful of A-10's, F-16's and AH-64's.

As ever, your information is obviously spot on. All the planes have gone home.[/quote]

[Ichhabe]

The Fighting takes place in Urban areas, absolutely no good option....In mid 2000, the CIA had a clear opportunity to capture or Kill Osama Bin Laden. President Clinton refused to let them make the take down because of concerns over collateral damage. And what a mistake that was.


Killing Osama Bin Laden then would maybe anyway not prevented the attack on WTC. Reason: They had the planning finnished. The attack was already on it's way.


What im saying is if we get a chance to off Al Sadr, we need to do it now, because just like Saddam he wont stay in one spot for long.

Interesting question here: What if he take off and hide inside Iran?

[usa320]

I never said all the planes- I said many...

A number of F-16's, A-10's and Harriers remain in theatre.

But the heavy hitters- B-52's, B-1's, Strike Eagles, Tornados- they have all returned home.

[sethen]

Ever since Mogadishu, the American military has anticipated and trained for urban warfare. Many Americans feared that at the beginning of the war there would be alot of casualties due to urban warfare. We were lucky that most of thecombat took place in open areas. The "Iraqis" were at a distinct disadvantaged and we trounced them! But they have had a year to regroup and the urban type warfare we have feared and trained for is here! I have confidence in the Marines! They are medium infantry and live for this type of battle. I just wander if we Americans are ready to see ALOT of bodies? :( Anyways, the Sunnis and the Shias have probably joined forces together. I suspect this to be a serious escalation in the war. I wouldn't be suprised if more than a few Iranian PASDARAN cadre are dredged up during these operations!

[usa320]

What if he take off and hide inside Iran?


Sounds like a good idea actually- Iran would welcome him, and it would keep him out of Iraq to muck things up.

But in a few years he would get what is comming anyway- cause really- how long do you guys think Iran's brutal Theocracy will remain in power...Between the threat of internal revolt and the possibility of US strikes on Iran in the future, i think the mucktard is mucked no matter where he goes.

[sethen]

Interesting question here: What if he take off and hide inside Iran?

I read a book by Peter Bergen called, "Holy War Inc." It was excellent!!!
It said one of Osamas contingency plans if he had to abandon Afghanistan was for him to move "The Base" to Iran!!!!!

[Ballistic]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1130577,00.html


A Pentagon source has said up to 130 US troops have been killed in fierce fighting in Iraq.

My God, you would think that they would atleast try and get the numbers correct. That is irresponsible news reporting.

Stand fast Marines and Army and the other nations coping the worst of it, I hope those fighting continue to do so, and dont lose their lives, although I doubt that will be the case. I wonder if the Aussies have been involved in any of this....

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

It said one of Osamas contingency plans if he had to abandon Afghanistan was for hin to move "The Base" to Iran!!!!!
A bad move for Osama they would have hunted him down like a wild animal, Osama and the ruling council did not see eye to eye on several matters.

[5jumpchump]

Hahahahahhahahaha rofl
Here we go again . First it was a catastrophe in a sand storm .
Then it's another Viet Nam by loosing 600 over the course of a year .
Now we lost 12 soldiers in a battle and it's "significant" numbers .
Kind of reminds me of losing 18 troops in Somalia .
Ahhhhem , the Somalis had ten thousand soldiers and lost 1500 to 3000
of them . And it was considered a loss ? What other force could pull something like that off and not loose either the same or more numbers ?

Here’s a win then .

ONE US soldier killed 500,000 Al Quada soldiers in Iraq today . Each of the casualties had a perfectly placed bullet hole in the head . Suffering only a broken nail and some trench foot , bruising on his shoulder from firing his rifle and messing up his hair he couldn't believe he survived .
Quote " when I noticed my pinky finger nail had been partially broken off in my frantic need to reload I though it was all over , I started to cry . I mean here I am in battle and my finger nail had taken some serious damage . The thought of suicide crossed my mind but I fought it through . Then while I was taking a break at a hooker ranch I noticed that I smelled really bad and desperately needed a shower . War is hell , Hi Mom ! "
The soldier was taken to medical facilities for his injuries and put on a life support system . Only after extensive examination will we ever know if our hero of the day will survive . The rest of his platoon killed off the remaining 2,000,000,000 Al Quada remnants in just under 15 minutes with no casualties . Not one civilian was hurt during this exercise and food and water to all of Iraq was restored in another 5 minutes . Power of Iraq will be handed over in the next 10 seconds . Troops need to move out and prepare for the hour long battle it will take to invade , over throw , and kill the whole Army of North Korea . More at 10:00 PM , eastern time : end . :D
rofl

[Merik]

Hahahahahhahahaha rofl
Here we go again . First it was a catastrophe in a sand storm .
Then it's another Viet Nam by loosing 600 over the course of a year .
Now we lost 12 soldiers in a battle and it's "significant" numbers .
Kind of reminds me of losing 18 troops in Somalia .
Ahhhhem , the Somalis had ten thousand soldiers and lost 1500 to 3000
of them . And it was considered a loss ? What other force could pull something like that off and not loose either the same or more numbers ?

Here’s a win then .

ONE US soldier killed 500,000 Al Quada soldiers in Iraq today . Each of the casualties had a perfectly placed bullet hole in the head . Suffering only a broken nail and some trench foot , bruising on his shoulder from firing his rifle and messing up his hair he couldn't believe he survived .
Quote " when I noticed my pinky finger nail had been partially broken off in my frantic need to reload I though it was all over , I started to cry . I mean here I am in battle and my finger nail had taken some serious damage . The thought of suicide crossed my mind but I fought it through . Then while I was taking a break at a hooker ranch I noticed that I smelled really bad and desperately needed a shower . War is hell , Hi Mom ! "
The soldier was taken to medical facilities for his injuries and put on a life support system . Only after extensive examination will we ever know if our hero of the day will survive . The rest of his platoon killed off the remaining 2,000,000,000 Al Quada remnants in just under 15 minutes with no casualties . Not one civilian was hurt during this exercise and food and water to all of Iraq was restored in another 5 minutes . Power of Iraq will be handed over in the next 10 seconds . Troops need to move out and prepare for the hour long battle it will take to invade , over throw , and kill the whole Army of North Korea . More at 10:00 PM , eastern time : end . :D
rofl


I like you chump.

[NcDeuce]

Coalition forces under fire in Ramadi

Clashes reported in seven locations across Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- As many as a dozen U.S. Marines were killed Tuesday in heavy fighting in the western Iraq town of Ramadi, the latest in a series of clashes with anti-coalition elements, Pentagon officials said.

The large-scale attack was mounted by suspected remnants of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's Baath Party, officials said.

A high-ranking military source said initial reports indicated several government buildings had been seized by fewer than 100 insurgents.

The insurgents attacked a Marine position near the governor's palace.

The source said more than a dozen Marines were wounded. There also were heavy enemy casualties.

Ramadi, about 60 miles west of Baghdad, is part of the Sunni triangle, an area north and west of the capital where much of the resistance to the U.S.-led occupation has occurred.

The 1st Marine Expeditionary Force recently took over from the Army's 82nd Airborne Division in the region, which includes the area extending to the border with Syria.

One Pentagon official described the region as "the badlands."

East of Ramadi, heavy fighting was reported in Fallujah as Marines and Iraqi security forces were reasserting control after the killing and mutilation of four civilian security guards last week.

And in Baghdad and at least four cities in the country's south, U.S. and coalition troops battled supporters of Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr for a third day.

In the holy city of Najaf in southern Iraq, al-Sadr's militia was in control of government, police and spiritual sites, a coalition source said.

Al-Sadr also was busing followers into Najaf from Sadr City, a Baghdad neighborhood, according to the coalition source, who said that many members of his outlawed militia, Mehdi's Army, were from surrounding provinces.

Al-Sadr -- who is wanted on murder charges in connection with the killing of a rival last year -- reportedly has taken refuge in the Imam Ali mosque in Najaf, one of Shiite Islam's holiest shrines.

A posting on al-Sadr's Web site said he has called for a general strike.

Qais Al-Khazaal, a spokesman for al-Sadr, said the young cleric wants coalition troops to withdraw from populated areas and release prisoners taken into custody in recent demonstrations.

Marines moved into Fallujah from several directions -- coming under heavy fire from insurgents -- in a second day of an operation to lock down the city.

Hospital officials in Fallujah reported at least 10 Iraqis dead and 24 injured.

Abrams tanks and infantry fighting vehicles led the Marine columns across a railway line north of the city into urban areas, where they were fired on by assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades.

The tanks and mounted grenade launchers picked off rooftop snipers, destroying at least three houses in the process.

Marines also detained six Iraqis carrying explosives near a command post north of Fallujah, a Marine officer said. The officer said the material was intended to make homemade bombs.

Despite the widespread unrest, L. Paul Bremer, the top U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq, said there was no question coalition forces were in control of the country.

"I know if you just report on those few places, it does look chaotic," Bremer said.

"But if you travel around the country ... what you find is a bustling economy, people opening businesses right and left, unemployment has dropped."

In Baghdad, firefights continued particularly in the Shiite area of Sadr City. Reports also indicated that Italian troops were battling al-Sadr supporters in the southern city of Nasiriyah.

Fighting broke out between coalition forces and al-Sadr's Mehdi Army on Saturday after the arrest of the cleric's deputy on charges in connection with Abdul Majeed al-Khoei's death April 10, 2003, outside the Imam Ali shrine in Najaf.

Twelve people were arrested last fall when an Iraqi judge issued 25 warrants in the case, including the ones for al-Sadr and his deputy, Mustafa al-Yaqoubi, coalition officials said.

Yaqoubi was arrested Saturday in Najaf and turned over to Iraqi police Monday, they said.

About 50 Iraqis were reported killed around the country in Tuesday's clashes.

Hospital sources said 36 of those were killed in battles with U.S. troops in Baghdad's Sadr City, a Shiite slum named for the rebellious cleric's assassinated father.

Bremer described al-Sadr as "a guy who has a fundamentally inappropriate view of the new Iraq."

"He believes that in the new Iraq, like in the old Iraq, power should be to the guy with guns," Bremer said. "That is an unacceptable vision for Iraq."

In Najaf, a spokesman for al-Sadr said the cleric had "received many letters from other religious leaders" supporting him, mentioning Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani -- the most senior Iraqi Shiite cleric.

"Sistani said in his letter that he supported us for standing for what we believe ... but that he also thought that we should try to resolve this matter in a more calm and civil way," spokesman Qais al-Khazaal said.

Pentagon sources said the military would exercise caution in seeking al-Sadr in an attempt to avoid giving him more stature among radicalized Iraqis.

Pentagon officials played down reports that American troops' tours of duty in Iraq could be extended to bolster the U.S. occupation force there.

Though that is one possibility, one official said it was not under "active consideration."

About 134,000 U.S. troops are now in Iraq, but that number is scheduled to drop to 110,000 over the next few months as part of a scheduled rotation of forces.

Other developments

Since the start of the war last year, 622 U.S. troops have died, 428 of them in hostile action. Since President Bush announced the end of major combat in Iraq on May 1, 313 U.S. troops have been killed in hostile action.

Britain is sending thousands of troops to Iraq to replace those already serving there, said Maj. Rachel Grimes of the Ministry of Defense. She said the move was part of a "normal" six-month rotation and would not result in an increase in the number of British troops in Iraq.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/story.fallujah.tues.2.jpg
U.S. Marines on watch in Fallujah

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/story.outside.najaf.tues.5..jpg
Iraqi Shiite supporters of Muqtada al-Sadr chant anti-U.S slogans Tuesday in Najaf.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/story.fallujah.7.ap.jpg
U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, take cover during a gunbattle with insurgents Tuesday on the outskirts of Fallujah.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/top.fallujah.9.ap.jpg
U.S. Marines fighting near Fallujah.


Sounds hairy

[Ichhabe]

I wonder and ponder: When will hot heads end comparing kill by kill?
This is not a war of the Napoleon aera.

Wheter you arm chair commandoes like it or not: The 18 tragic losses that USA had in Mogadishu led to a US withdrawl, and if that is not looked up on as a victory for the Clans in Somalia nothing is.

The trouble in our modern day, is that we cannot take losses as the losses the Allied forces had on the D-Day's landing.

Is it something that these 3. world countries can "afford", it will be these heavy losses.

[NcDeuce]

Coalition forces under fire in Ramadi

Clashes reported in seven locations across Iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- As many as a dozen U.S. Marines were killed Tuesday in heavy fighting in the western Iraq town of Ramadi, the latest in a series of clashes with anti-coalition elements, Pentagon officials said.

The large-scale attack was mounted by suspected remnants of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's Baath Party, officials said.

A high-ranking military source said initial reports indicated several government buildings had been seized by fewer than 100 insurgents.

The insurgents attacked a Marine position near the governor's palace.

The source said more than a dozen Marines were wounded. There also were heavy enemy casualties.

Ramadi, about 60 miles west of Baghdad, is part of the Sunni triangle, an area north and west of the capital where much of the resistance to the U.S.-led occupation has occurred.

The 1st Marine Expeditionary Force recently took over from the Army's 82nd Airborne Division in the region, which includes the area extending to the border with Syria.

One Pentagon official described the region as "the badlands."

East of Ramadi, heavy fighting was reported in Fallujah as Marines and Iraqi security forces were reasserting control after the killing and mutilation of four civilian security guards last week.

And in Baghdad and at least four cities in the country's south, U.S. and coalition troops battled supporters of Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr for a third day.

In the holy city of Najaf in southern Iraq, al-Sadr's militia was in control of government, police and spiritual sites, a coalition source said.

Al-Sadr also was busing followers into Najaf from Sadr City, a Baghdad neighborhood, according to the coalition source, who said that many members of his outlawed militia, Mehdi's Army, were from surrounding provinces.

Al-Sadr -- who is wanted on murder charges in connection with the killing of a rival last year -- reportedly has taken refuge in the Imam Ali mosque in Najaf, one of Shiite Islam's holiest shrines.

A posting on al-Sadr's Web site said he has called for a general strike.

Qais Al-Khazaal, a spokesman for al-Sadr, said the young cleric wants coalition troops to withdraw from populated areas and release prisoners taken into custody in recent demonstrations.

Marines moved into Fallujah from several directions -- coming under heavy fire from insurgents -- in a second day of an operation to lock down the city.

Hospital officials in Fallujah reported at least 10 Iraqis dead and 24 injured.

Abrams tanks and infantry fighting vehicles led the Marine columns across a railway line north of the city into urban areas, where they were fired on by assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades.

The tanks and mounted grenade launchers picked off rooftop snipers, destroying at least three houses in the process.

Marines also detained six Iraqis carrying explosives near a command post north of Fallujah, a Marine officer said. The officer said the material was intended to make homemade bombs.

Despite the widespread unrest, L. Paul Bremer, the top U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq, said there was no question coalition forces were in control of the country.

"I know if you just report on those few places, it does look chaotic," Bremer said.

"But if you travel around the country ... what you find is a bustling economy, people opening businesses right and left, unemployment has dropped."

In Baghdad, firefights continued particularly in the Shiite area of Sadr City. Reports also indicated that Italian troops were battling al-Sadr supporters in the southern city of Nasiriyah.

Fighting broke out between coalition forces and al-Sadr's Mehdi Army on Saturday after the arrest of the cleric's deputy on charges in connection with Abdul Majeed al-Khoei's death April 10, 2003, outside the Imam Ali shrine in Najaf.

Twelve people were arrested last fall when an Iraqi judge issued 25 warrants in the case, including the ones for al-Sadr and his deputy, Mustafa al-Yaqoubi, coalition officials said.

Yaqoubi was arrested Saturday in Najaf and turned over to Iraqi police Monday, they said.

About 50 Iraqis were reported killed around the country in Tuesday's clashes.

Hospital sources said 36 of those were killed in battles with U.S. troops in Baghdad's Sadr City, a Shiite slum named for the rebellious cleric's assassinated father.

Bremer described al-Sadr as "a guy who has a fundamentally inappropriate view of the new Iraq."

"He believes that in the new Iraq, like in the old Iraq, power should be to the guy with guns," Bremer said. "That is an unacceptable vision for Iraq."

In Najaf, a spokesman for al-Sadr said the cleric had "received many letters from other religious leaders" supporting him, mentioning Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani -- the most senior Iraqi Shiite cleric.

"Sistani said in his letter that he supported us for standing for what we believe ... but that he also thought that we should try to resolve this matter in a more calm and civil way," spokesman Qais al-Khazaal said.

Pentagon sources said the military would exercise caution in seeking al-Sadr in an attempt to avoid giving him more stature among radicalized Iraqis.

Pentagon officials played down reports that American troops' tours of duty in Iraq could be extended to bolster the U.S. occupation force there.

Though that is one possibility, one official said it was not under "active consideration."

About 134,000 U.S. troops are now in Iraq, but that number is scheduled to drop to 110,000 over the next few months as part of a scheduled rotation of forces.

Other developments

Since the start of the war last year, 622 U.S. troops have died, 428 of them in hostile action. Since President Bush announced the end of major combat in Iraq on May 1, 313 U.S. troops have been killed in hostile action.

Britain is sending thousands of troops to Iraq to replace those already serving there, said Maj. Rachel Grimes of the Ministry of Defense. She said the move was part of a "normal" six-month rotation and would not result in an increase in the number of British troops in Iraq.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/story.fallujah.tues.2.jpg
U.S. Marines on watch in Fallujah

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/story.outside.najaf.tues.5..jpg
Iraqi Shiite supporters of Muqtada al-Sadr chant anti-U.S slogans Tuesday in Najaf.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/story.fallujah.7.ap.jpg
U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, take cover during a gunbattle with insurgents Tuesday on the outskirts of Fallujah.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/meast/04/06/iraq.main/top.fallujah.9.ap.jpg
U.S. Marines fighting near Fallujah.


Sounds hairy


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr11504061955.topix_iraq_msr115.jpg

U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment stand guard at a railway on the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq (news - web sites), Tuesday, April 6, 2004. Hundreds of U.S. Marines attacked several neighborhoods in the western Iraqi city of Fallujah in order to regain control of the city

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr11404061939.iraq__msr114.jpg
U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment take cover during a gunbattle with Iraqi insurgents on the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr11304061923.iraq__msr113.jpg

U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment pause after a gunbattle with the Iraqi insurgents on the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr10504061909.iraq_msr105.jpg

U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment take cover during a gunbattle with insurgents on the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr11004061907.iraq__msr110.jpg

U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment take cover as a TV cameraman films during a gunbattle with Iraqi insurgents on the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr10604061843.iraq__msr106.jpg

A U.S. Marine with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment assists his colleague to take off his backpack after a gun battle with Iraqi insurgents on the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr10304061838.iraq__msr103.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040406/capt.msr10204061826.iraq__msr102.jpg

U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment take cover during a gun battle with the Iraqi insurgents [/

More pics from Ken...

[5jumpchump]

Hahahahaha im just having some fun . You gotta have a good sense of humor in ****ty times ya know . I'm also very , very , very happy today .
I just bought a kick ass M1A scout in .308 this morning for just $1,000 !!!
The stock wood on this thing is a dream , it alone is $200 . Trigger group customized for a 4 pound trigger pull . Action and insides buffed and worked by a really good gunsmith . Flash hider is long and kick ass . 2 ten round mags , instructions , tools . A cutom match grad M1 for just as grand rofl Can't wait to shott it , again . It was my friends and now IT"S MINE !!! MUWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH !

[GrimmyRX]

From CNN:


Coalition battling insurgents in seven cities

Sounds like big ****..... :roll:

You couldnt be happier could you...

I don't believe he mentioned anything about his emotional state other than to say "RIP" :roll:

[M1A2U2]

Once again this bad news for America is good news for john kerry. Good campaign slogan.

BTW anyone check out the off topic post about mustamantos website that I found? HAHAH very strange man

[Beowulf]

BEO check PM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

got it...thanks. inshallah

[XASA]

Once again this bad news for America is good news for john kerry. Good campaign slogan.

BTW anyone check out the off topic post about mustamantos website that I found? HAHAH very strange man

OMG :cantbeli:

Please enlighten us on how bad news for America is good news for John Kerry? Do you really believe that a presidential candidate wants something bad to happen to his country?

[Ratamacue]

Once again this bad news for America is good news for john kerry. Good campaign slogan.

BTW anyone check out the off topic post about mustamantos website that I found? HAHAH very strange man

OMG :cantbeli:

Please enlighten us on how bad news for America is good news for John Kerry? Do you really believe that a presidential candidate wants something bad to happen to his country?

Well after all, the liberals only care about their own agenda, right? Conservatives are God's gift to mankind.

[5jumpchump]

Once again this bad news for America is good news for john Kerry. Good campaign slogan.

BTW anyone check out the off topic post about mustamantos website that I found? HAHAH very strange man

OMG :cantbeli:

Please enlighten us on how bad news for America is good news for John Kerry? Do you really believe that a presidential candidate wants something bad to happen to his country?

I think he means that bad news in America ( meaning more soldier losses ) would sway public opinion away for supporting the war any further . Thus more votes would go to Kerry , who opposes the war , and that might make him the new president . That would be my
hypothosis :roll:

[Haiw]

Once again this bad news for America is good news for john kerry. Good campaign slogan.

BTW anyone check out the off topic post about mustamantos website that I found? HAHAH very strange man

OMG :cantbeli:

Please enlighten us on how bad news for America is good news for John Kerry? Do you really believe that a presidential candidate wants something bad to happen to his country?

Well after all, the liberals only care about their own agenda, right? Conservatives are God's gift to mankind.
Yeah. I mean, haven't you seen the liberals having parties on military cemetaries, celebrating the death soldiers?

[yellowking]

Big picture-wise, this is probably good news. These are a bunch of baddies standing up and inviting the US to kill them. Better to get these guys out of the way now so we don't have to come back a third time.

[Skullknight]

Al-Sadr is holed up in the shrine in Najaf, and is bringing fighters from all over into the city. They control the mosques, the government buildings, police stations, etc. He is smarter than I thought. Now if the US tries to enter Najaf and fight his militiamen it will start a much larger Shia uprising.

[Truthsayer]

I honestly think the americans should reinforce their firebases, possible set up more, overlooking every entryroad (but not to close) to every city where the uprising is string (4-5 of them now?) and provoce the hot-headed low-level clergics to let their black-dressed wannabe-soldiers to attack. Lay down, unlock the M249 and let it rip...any civilians running alongside armed 'militias' like in that news-cut from the first days isn't 'innocent bystanders' and shouldn't be seen as colletorel damage.

Going into hostile cities, house-to-house, at this point is only gonna cost to much coalition-soldiers lifes.

Use the high level of anger these comming week to spur more attacks on fortified positions, and let the problem solve itself, so to speak. Even consider using some of the infiltrated 'friendly' iraqis to convince the armed 'uppraising' to attack. It's a hell lot easier to pick 'em off running up to you, on an nice shootingfield, then looking for them in spider-holes.

Just my 2 5.56s.

[FallenAngel]

I honestly think the americans should reinforce their firebases, possible set up more, overlooking every entryroad (but not to close) to every city where the uprising is string (4-5 of them now?) and provoce the hot-headed low-level clergics to let their black-dressed wannabe-soldiers to attack. Lay down, unlock the M249 and let it rip...any civilians running alongside armed 'militias' like in that news-cut from the first days isn't 'innocent bystanders' and shouldn't be seen as colletorel damage.

Going into hostile cities, house-to-house, at this point is only gonna cost to much coalition-soldiers lifes.


Reinforce them with what? We are trying to down-size the force there...not add more to the mix. The only way you're getting more troops into Iraq is either A- deploy more reserve/NG units (bad PR) or B- redeploy troops that just LEFT Iraq (even worse PR).

Like it or not...going house to house might be the only alternative. You can't carpet bomb the down- killing everything but coachroaches and you can't effectively lay seige to the town either- it would disrupt the civilian populace too much.

[obd]

Funny, because just yesterday Royal attacked me and called me an idiot for saying we should arrest Sadr....Now his Mehdi Army is attacking coalition troops all over.....I wonder what Royal has to say now that Sadr has been exposed not only as a petty thug but as the leader of an enemy militia who refuses to answer to the rule of law and is waging an open and declared war on American forces.......I think its pretty damn clear that mofo needs hanging......or at the very least a small cell next to Saddam...

[Truthsayer]

I honestly think the americans should reinforce their firebases, possible set up more, overlooking every entryroad (but not to close) to every city where the uprising is string (4-5 of them now?) and provoce the hot-headed low-level clergics to let their black-dressed wannabe-soldiers to attack. Lay down, unlock the M249 and let it rip...any civilians running alongside armed 'militias' like in that news-cut from the first days isn't 'innocent bystanders' and shouldn't be seen as colletorel damage.

Going into hostile cities, house-to-house, at this point is only gonna cost to much coalition-soldiers lifes.


Reinforce them with what? We are trying to down-size the force there...not add more to the mix. The only way you're getting more troops into Iraq is either A- deploy more reserve/NG units (bad PR) or B- redeploy troops that just LEFT Iraq (even worse PR).

Like it or not...going house to house might be the only alternative. You can't carpet bomb the down- killing everything but coachroaches and you can't effectively lay seige to the town either- it would disrupt the civilian populace too much.

I was talking about reinforcing the walls, buldings, bulding them all into having sandbags all the way around, more entrenches, and so on. Prepearing to be able to withstand an open assualt with an force 10:1 in size.

This is, sadly, the only way the Americans will be able to be able to kill off madhats like the ones above, and still have high level of respect throughout the region. Defending their own firebases is 'better PR' then blowing up buldings. And civilians casualties would automatically be keeped to a minimum.

[M1A2U2]

This is good news for john kerry think about it...the worse the war goes the better it is for democrats. Also personally when you talk about dancing on the graves of dead soldiers i wouldnt put that past me considering kerry voted against body armor for our troops.

[MetalBoy]

Is it safe to assume we have Marine Recon forces sneaking around Fallujah under the cover of darkness, snatching and grabbing the bad guys? I'd feel a whole hell of a lot beter if we had Special Ops guys killing in the shadows in Fallujah.

[SeanAshi]

Reinforce them with what? We are trying to down-size the force there...not add more to the mix. The Pentagon has said if they need more troops in Iraq then they will have them.

[Russian Texan]

I honestly think the americans should reinforce their firebases, possible set up more, overlooking every entryroad (but not to close) to every city where the uprising is string (4-5 of them now?) and provoce the hot-headed low-level clergics to let their black-dressed wannabe-soldiers to attack. Lay down, unlock the M249 and let it rip...any civilians running alongside armed 'militias' like in that news-cut from the first days isn't 'innocent bystanders' and shouldn't be seen as colletorel damage.

Going into hostile cities, house-to-house, at this point is only gonna cost to much coalition-soldiers lifes.

Use the high level of anger these comming week to spur more attacks on fortified positions, and let the problem solve itself, so to speak. Even consider using some of the infiltrated 'friendly' iraqis to convince the armed 'uppraising' to attack. It's a hell lot easier to pick 'em off running up to you, on an nice shootingfield, then looking for them in spider-holes.

Just my 2 5.56s.

Aren't you the same guy who condemned Russians for not caring about collateral damage in Chechnya, killing innocent civilians and such...? ;)

At this point it is no longer about liberating Iraqis, it is about government saving their face...
I do believe that decision to go to war has to be made by someone who has seen combat in first person, saw friends die and heard wounded scream.
People, why do we need Middle East, why do we need f*** second Vietnam?!
Isn't it clear that Iraqis and muslims in general don't like us for what we believe in and who we are?
Pull out of the Middle East, let clerics and whoever settle their scores among each other and don't let any arabs into the western world if you are so paranoid about terrorism.
I do believe if we leave them alone - they will leave us alone. Everyone minds their own business, simple like that...

[yellowking]

I do believe if we leave them alone - they will leave us alone. Everyone minds their own business, simple like that...
It's not a matter of leaving them alone. Their people want the West's coca-cola, Mercedes-Benzes, Levi's, alcohol, music and ****ography. They can't stop that desire, but they can strike out at the source. It's always easier to blame somebody else for your own problems than to examine yourself and see what's wrong with you.

[Pandy]

From watching the news and reading the things here, sounds like it's another "Tet" in Iraq, I bet you guys each a case of beer that this might be the big "push" their going for to make the US Public dislike what were' doing in Iraq or weaken the Iraqi Resistance against the US, Poles, Brits etc.

[German_American]

I don't think this is going to be another Nam, but does anyone have a guess when this fighting will stop.

[ibstolidude]

since Grenada people have said it will be another Vietnam - Panama - GW1 -horn of africa - Haiti - balkans (ifor sfor kfor oas ...etc) - A-stan

[Trigger]

since Grenada the same people have said it will be another Vietnam - Panama - GW1 -horn of africa - Haiti - balkans (ifor sfor kfor oas ...etc) - A-stan

Nothing like a positive outlook, eh? :)

[aeternum]

I honestly think the americans should reinforce their firebases, possible set up more, overlooking every entryroad (but not to close) to every city where the uprising is string (4-5 of them now?) and provoce the hot-headed low-level clergics to let their black-dressed wannabe-soldiers to attack. Lay down, unlock the M249 and let it rip...any civilians running alongside armed 'militias' like in that news-cut from the first days isn't 'innocent bystanders' and shouldn't be seen as colletorel damage.

Going into hostile cities, house-to-house, at this point is only gonna cost to much coalition-soldiers lifes.


Reinforce them with what? We are trying to down-size the force there...not add more to the mix. The only way you're getting more troops into Iraq is either A- deploy more reserve/NG units (bad PR) or B- redeploy troops that just LEFT Iraq (even worse PR).

Like it or not...going house to house might be the only alternative. You can't carpet bomb the down- killing everything but coachroaches and you can't effectively lay seige to the town either- it would disrupt the civilian populace too much.

Exactly! The US is probably faceing the fight they wanted to avoid since the invasion - a close combat scenario, house by house.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I honestly think the americans should reinforce their firebases, possible set up more, overlooking every entryroad (but not to close) to every city where the uprising is string (4-5 of them now?) and provoce the hot-headed low-level clergics to let their black-dressed wannabe-soldiers to attack. Lay down, unlock the M249 and let it rip...any civilians running alongside armed 'militias' like in that news-cut from the first days isn't 'innocent bystanders' and shouldn't be seen as colletorel damage.

Going into hostile cities, house-to-house, at this point is only gonna cost to much coalition-soldiers lifes.


Reinforce them with what? We are trying to down-size the force there...not add more to the mix. The only way you're getting more troops into Iraq is either A- deploy more reserve/NG units (bad PR) or B- redeploy troops that just LEFT Iraq (even worse PR).

Like it or not...going house to house might be the only alternative. You can't carpet bomb the down- killing everything but coachroaches and you can't effectively lay seige to the town either- it would disrupt the civilian populace too much.

Exactly! The US is probably faceing the fight they wanted to avoid since the invasion - a close combat scenario, house by house.
Finished jerking off yet?

[5jumpchump]

"Exactly! The US is probably facing the fight they wanted to avoid since the invasion - a close combat scenario, house by house."

What are you talking about , this is exactly what we want . Marines are trained extensively to fight and win in an urban warfare environment . This is the best thing that has happened since the war "ended" . NOW there's finally a "battle front" . These guys ( the Iraqi exstreamists )finally got into numbers enough that they think they can push the Marines and coalition out of Iraq !?!?!?!? rofl Now we know witch Mosque the leader is . We have the cities surrounded . I guess they got tired of pin pricking us and now they want to test our ability to fight large numbers . But oh **** , we lost 30-40 soldiers and they lost 200-300 . Guess it's another Vietnam , time to go home with tail tucked between the legs , party is over , the fat lady sung her last song, time to throw in the towel :roll:
Like I said in another post if the only reason we really went to Iraq was to create a target for all these Islamic extremists then so be it . And look what we have , **** loads of Islamic extremists coming to Iraq from several different countries to fight US troops . They kill a hand full of us , we kill room full of them . This **** is so ridiculous that in any combat situation if just one soldier is lost is a friggin catastrophe . Give me a freaking break . We invaded Afghanistan , killed 45,000 Taliban , set up a new government and things are pretty good in that region , better that what they were . My only problem is pulling out of Iraq this early . It's too early . We need to stay for much longer . This kind of worries me in tow ways . One we might be feeling the effects of how much we spent on the two wars we had since 9/11 , all of the home land security costs and such . And two I wonder if we are bringing everyone back to regroup and go somewhere else . Those WMD gotta be somewhere :D

[MEGR]

To put a positive outlook on things here, ever since major combat operations have ended, the insurgency have been picking our boys off at intervals of 2 and 3. Now, they are all coming out of the wood work where they can be cleary engaged and destroyed... This will be a dirty dirty fight, but hittting mosques and such are necessary. They don't play by our rules, and it is insane to think that we should restrict our use of firepower....I know that some of you think that our forces are going to be misguided and kill alot of civvies; however, unlike those naysayers, I feel confident that the Marine Corp will stop this uprising with as much contraint as necessary.. Also, unlike some of you guys, i would like to send my gratitude to the other coalition troops for also sacrificing and fighting this fight... Here in the US, when i go to rallies and such, we praise our boys, but also give thanks to our coalition partners...

The Marine Corp had fought some of the toughest fights from ww2 to GW1 in Khafji, to now.... This is a time of testing.. Testing of our resolve and of our commitment to this operation.. I have full faith in our Coalition and in our US Marines, Army, and private contractors.

[NcDeuce]

http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks2.jpg

[Damian]

I think that CQB scenario is the worst because we cannot use long range shooting... Yes Marines will win but with how much casualties? These guys can puch Coalition Forces out of iraq if they keep killing Coalition Soldier at this rate! Yeah we lost 30 Soldier and they lost 200-300 but it doesn't matter because I think life isn't important for iraqi people...

[One?]

Try watching the battle on al-jazeera. Its like the invasion of iraq all over again. Rockets flying all over the place. The snipers were even shooting at the cameraman.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Try watching the battle on al-jazeera. Its like the invasion of iraq all over again. Rockets flying all over the place. The snipers were even shooting at the cameraman.
WHICH snipers? :roll:
WHICH cameramen? :roll:
:roll:

[Flagg]

"Exactly! The US is probably facing the fight they wanted to avoid since the invasion - a close combat scenario, house by house."

What are you talking about , this is exactly what we want . Marines are trained extensively to fight and win in an urban warfare environment . This is the best thing that has happened since the war "ended" .

I do not believe this is "exactly what we want".

Even extensive training in MOUT/FIBUA tactics can result in VERY high casualties to "the good guys".

On top of that you have the extreme difficulty in identifying civilians from legitimate targets.

My opinion is that while I'm confident US/Coaltion forces will succeed militarily(albeit with increased casualties)......equal emphasis is needed to ensure we also win politically and through the "media war".

A number of images run through my mind:

Tet Offensive(military failure that gutted the Vietcong, but damaged the US administration enough politically to begin "Vietnamisation")

Video of South Vietnamese Police Chief executing Vietcong infiltrator(regardless of the fact that vietcong infiltrator had just murdered his family...perception by the American public was quite different)

Video of US soldier being dragged through the streets of Somalia(helped lead to Clinton's pulling US forces out of Somalia)

A big concern of mine is the ubiquitous nature of video recorders...I can think of a number of scenarios where US/coalition forces are drawn into a "media ambush" and a single image or video clip could degrade the current environment even further.

[Trident-za]

Excellent post, Flagg.

[Truthsayer]

I honestly think the americans should reinforce their firebases, possible set up more, overlooking every entryroad (but not to close) to every city where the uprising is string (4-5 of them now?) and provoce the hot-headed low-level clergics to let their black-dressed wannabe-soldiers to attack. Lay down, unlock the M249 and let it rip...any civilians running alongside armed 'militias' like in that news-cut from the first days isn't 'innocent bystanders' and shouldn't be seen as colletorel damage.

Going into hostile cities, house-to-house, at this point is only gonna cost to much coalition-soldiers lifes.

Use the high level of anger these comming week to spur more attacks on fortified positions, and let the problem solve itself, so to speak. Even consider using some of the infiltrated 'friendly' iraqis to convince the armed 'uppraising' to attack. It's a hell lot easier to pick 'em off running up to you, on an nice shootingfield, then looking for them in spider-holes.

Just my 2 5.56s.

Aren't you the same guy who condemned Russians for not caring about collateral damage in Chechnya, killing innocent civilians and such...? ;)


I have never commented directly on the Chechnyen war on this forum, so the answer to your question is, No.