White army in Russian civil war

[tsunamidoe]

Csillagosok, Katonák（BY: Miklós Jancsó）


http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/2926/3700246901709hd2.jpg
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The film examines Hungarians fighting in the Red Army in 1918 during the bloody Russian civil war near the Volga. There, a monastery and a field hospital are held by one side then the other.

At that time Hungarian Communists aid the Bolsheviks' fight against Czarists, the Whites. Neither the Red nor the White has a plan. Red soldiers walk willingly, singing, into an overwhelming force. At the hospital, White officers order nurses into the woods, dressed in finery, to waltz. War seems chaotic and arbitrary. Through all the confused violence and conflicting emotions, a young nurse must tend to both Red and White army wounded.

Utilizing horizontal compositions of vast landscapes and lateral tracking shots in a widescreen frame to depict the spaces between two great armies massed against each other, Jancsó makes no value judgments for a war in which guilt is shared by both sides in the conflict.

http://www.jancso.film.hu/kepek/upload/2005-02/csillagosok_lany.wmv

http://www.jancso.film.hu/kepek/upload/2005-02/csillagosok_alca.wmv




Russian Civil War


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WHITE...............


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1994....................

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Yugoslavia....................


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WWI..................


http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4705/ast0152hp8.jpg
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RED..ARMY...............



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WWII.........................


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.......................


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．．．．．．．．．．．



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Krasnov, Pyotr Nikolayevich
　　


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Denikin, Anton Ivanovich


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..........


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Kolchak, Aleksandr Vasilyevich



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Yudenich, Nikolay

(Nikolay Nikolayevich Yudenich)



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Wrangel, Pyotr Nikolayevich, Baron


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Alekseyev, Mikhail Vasilyevich (Alekseyev=Alekseev)




http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8749/alekseeveh7.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3799/1000145794bg2.jpg


Kornilov, Lavr Georgiyevich


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http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7673/markovuk7.jpg


Роман Фёдорович Унгерн фон Штернберг
：Roman Fyodorovich Ungern von Sternberg



http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3791/ungern20182er3.jpg
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Nestor Makhno




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Petlyura, Symon Vasilyevich




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Masaryk, Tomas (Garrigue)





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Mannerheim, Carl Gustaf






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Poland...........Curzon Line...Riga, Treaty of




http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5819/aa0342li4.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/849/ast0082kx3.jpg


Cossack =Kazak。




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orthodox estern church.......................

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generals........................

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.....new White army

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http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2601/kolchak6feb2005016ef8.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7922/kornilov09042005062ga1.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2848/kornilov09042005007zh6.jpg

[Hellfish]

That is one hell of a post. GREAT INFO!

[Mr.K]

Poorly organized with a lot of material loosly related to civil war and white army. Pretty to watch though.

[goat89]

Nice pics! Thx for posting!

[pr0]

wow, what a post, thx



.....new White army

i`m not sure that they call themselves as white army

[shilka234]

Excuse me, Do you have more photos? :roll:

Good job
thanks

[Heron]

so many pics

lol
nice post,man

[kaia]

Mannerheim tried to make finns participate in russian civil war and suggested in 1919 that finns would support the russian white army by attacking St. Petersburg. That was a time when Lenin´s bolshevists were at their weakest during russian civil war and they would have collapsed. His suggestions were ignored.

That was one of those times when a small and at that time ignificent country could have made a huge impact on world history.

[Teufel_]

Mannerheim tried to make finns participate in russian civil war and suggested in 1919 that finns would support the russian white army by attacking St. Petersburg. That was a time when Lenin´s bolshevists were at their weakest during russian civil war and they would have collapsed. His suggestions were ignored.

That was one of those times when a small and at that time ignificent country could have made a huge impact on world history.
dont worry you finnish forest trolls would have been thrown right out with the rest of the trash, the world tried intervening against russian people and got simple message "nakhui eto vot tuda"

[V0rkutinetz]

Great post. A lot of very interesting pics and info.
Having roots that go back to the Don Kossaks, I really appreciate this.
Thanks

[kaia]

dont worry you finnish forest trolls would have been thrown right out with the rest of the trash, the world tried intervening against russian people and got simple message "nakhui eto vot tuda"

What´s with your bad attitude? I´m just discussing about history.

And this is english language forum so be polite and speak english because you can and because since most of the people here don´t understand russian.

[nick_ua]

wtf
did u really now white Army was and what is the time frame.
U just put everything Kosaks, WWII pics of Nazi, Red army, Mannerheim
what the hell this has to do with White Army. Educate yourself first
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/931/1mo2.png
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2839/ast0042ef0.jpg
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4800/kos6an2.jpg

[Teufel_]

What´s with your bad attitude? I´m just discussing about history.

And this is english language forum so be polite and speak english because you can and because since most of the people here don´t understand russian.
well certain russian expressions are near impossible to translate

[CHERK]

Interesting images a lot of bloody history behind it.
And there is a big difference between White Army and ROA although I can see the connection.

Nestor Makhno was quiet a character: fighting for Reds, fighting for Whites, had his own small “republic” even printed his own money.

"Wrangel, Pyotr Nikolayevich, Baron" - Black Baron.

Plastunskiye Cossacks - Recon Cossacks.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2175/tsarplastunile7.jpg

[nick_ua]

Nestor Makhno was quiet a character: fighting for Reds, fighting for Whites, had his own small “republic” even printed his own money.

"Wrangel, Pyotr Nikolayevich, Baron" - Black Baron.

Plastunskiye Cossacks - Recon Cossacks.
indeed
the whole mess
this guy put whaever he was able to find in his hard drive and call it White army

[kaia]

wtf
did u really now white Army was and what is the time frame.
U just put everything Kosaks, WWII pics of Nazi, Red army, Mannerheim
what the hell this has to do with White Army. Educate yourself first




Maybe Mannerheim is there because he was Commander-in-Chief of the white army in Finland and had plans to interfere with russian civil war?

[Angrykirill]

well certain russian expressions are near impossible to translate

Мат переводиться матом..;)

(Swearing is translated with swearing)

[nick_ua]

Maybe Mannerheim is there because he was Commander-in-Chief of the white army in Finland and had plans to interfere with russian civil war?

let's put the guy, who "had" plans, (which is more likely BS I never heard about this plans) in topic about civil war in Russia

still have the craving to be very important

[Sergei]

What change would Mannerheim participation bring? 14 foreign nations tried to fight against young Soviet state together with a numerous Russian White Army. That didn't help them, because their struggle was isolated and not coordinated.
On the other hand the Red Army was a poorer but much more capable fighting unit in terms of morale and fighting spirit. And this thing wins a war.
The outcome is usually decided by who is more determined. The whites weren't determined enough.
Kolchak was an admiral, and his expertise would be best put to use in Baltic Fleet where he was a prominent commander in WWI.
Denikin was a field general, Yudenich was a general of staff, not good enough for field duty.
You have a whole bunch of people not suited for the task and that in itself signifies the downfall of the white movement, although they draw more and more sympathies from the folks today.

[madpendos]

От тайги до британский морей, красная армия всех сильней!

[Lokos]

'From the taiga to the British sea, the Red Army is stronger than all...'

How's my Russian?

Lokos

[madpendos]

Very good :D

[Flamming_Python]

Nearly there Lokos, but remember that тайги and морей are both plural, so the correct translation would be:

From the taigas to the British seas, the Red Army is the strongest of all...

[Lokos]

Thanks for the corrections. :)

Lokos

[F. De Saxe]

cool thread :) MORE PICS!!
especially more photos of intervent armies and "white" tanks

[Sergei]

cool thread :) MORE PICS!!
especially more photos of intervent armies and "white" tanks

There are no "white" tanks. All "white" tanks are French and British in origin. The Red Army produced its first tank in 1920 at the end of the Civil war.

[Flamming_Python]

Give the poster some credit. He did put up a lot of interesting material after all, even if it is disorganised

[kaia]

What change would Mannerheim participation bring? 14 foreign nations tried to fight against young Soviet state together with a numerous Russian White Army. That didn't help them, because their struggle was isolated and not coordinated.

Other countries could not get as close to them as Finland. Just look at any map of Finland from 1919 and you see that St. Petersburg were just a stone´s throw away from finnish border then.

At that time Lenin´s bolshevist government was weak and Lenin himself feared that Mannerheim would interfere after whites won the civil war in Finland. Mannerheim didn´t like bolshevists.

Finns however didn´t want to take part in russian civil war, because Lenin had gived his blessing to finnish independence and russian generals in white army didn´t.

[kaia]

let's put the guy, who "had" plans, (which is more likely BS I never heard about this plans) in topic about civil war in Russia

still have the craving to be very important

Just because you haven´t heard about it does not make it untrue.

I bet there´s a lot of things you haven´t heard about.

[Flamming_Python]

Dosn't matter whether Lenin's Government was weak or not, he had a huge support base in Petrograd. I mean what do you think the residents of that city would have done if the Finnish army just wandered in for a stroll? It is possible that the finns could have been able to beat back the garrisons and wander in, but how long would they have been able to stay?

[F. De Saxe]

There are no "white" tanks. All "white" tanks are French and British in origin. The Red Army produced its first tank in 1920 at the end of the Civil war.

I know that very well - i mean at example Renault or Mark V tanks when I say "white" tank :) I'm a plastic modeller, so I'm very interested in "white" army tank insignia and painting

[loganinkosovo]

Theres a new White Army? Do they want to bring back the Tzar or something? I'm surprised they haven't been purged yet. :)

The real loser of the civil war was the Russian people. They suffered under the Tzar, they suffered under the Whites and they suffered one hundred fold under the Reds.

When the reds weren't fighting the whites they were fighting each other for control, same as the whites. It was a mess.

The AEF in Russia


http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/p_bears.htm

http://pages.prodigy.net/mvgrobbel/photos/clem_grobbel_letters.htm

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/patotten.htm

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/fpfost.htm

http://www.kolchak.org/History/Siberia/aef.htm

http://www.militaria.com/8th/WW1/siberia.html

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/siberia.htm

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2002/winter/us-army-in-russia-1.html

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/hoyman.htm

http://www.geocities.com/grandmak33/Emmettlunsford.html

http://www.ephemeroi.com/unsleeping/arkv/005302.html

http://www.nortvoods.net/rrs/japan/index.html

http://members.screenz.com/bennypostcards/AEF_Siberia.htm

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/aef_cong.htm

http://www.texastradingpost.com/militaria/usmosin.html

[nick_ua]

Just because you haven´t heard about it does not make it untrue.
o really, how about u, my little friend, can u provide this valiable information directly from your excelent sources. I would be very happy to read them


Other countries could not get as close to them as Finland. Just look at any map of Finland from 1919 and you see that St. Petersburg were just a stone´s throw away from finnish border then.

thats right your geographical genius. just a stones throw, thtas why US forsces crossed the ocean, and fins forces were looking for stones to throw


t that time Lenin´s bolshevist government was weak and Lenin himself feared that Mannerheim would interfere after whites won the civil war in Finland.
right, Lenin has only one nightmare, Mannerheim and his mighty army, the rest of the world was just a piece of cake, but FINNS!!!!!!!!! no, they are one tough cookie, pretty much the same kindergarden history story, Stalin was afraid of Hitler. What other stories u heard in ur kindegarden


Finns however didn´t want to take part in russian civil war, because Lenin had gived his blessing to finnish independence and russian generals in white army didn´t.
I almost cry, how old are u. I know some people don't know history much but at least they don't making retarded remarks

[kaia]

Every forum has it´s trolls and in mp.net it seems to be this nick_ua character.

[kaia]

Dosn't matter whether Lenin's Government was weak or not, he had a huge support base in Petrograd. I mean what do you think the residents of that city would have done if the Finnish army just wandered in for a stroll? It is possible that the finns could have been able to beat back the garrisons and wander in, but how long would they have been able to stay?

As long as russian white army would take over the city i guess. Whether or not it would have worked i don´t pretend to know.

General Yudenich asked for help from Mannerheim. Mannerheim would have wanted to help, but Finland however didn´t want to get involved in russian civil war, because bolsheviks had recognized finnish independence, but whites had not.

[Sergei]

As long as russian white army would take over the city i guess. Whether or not it would have worked i don´t pretend to know.

General Yudenich asked for help from Mannerheim. Mannerheim would have wanted to help, but Finland however didn´t want to get involved in russian civil war, because bolsheviks had recognized finnish independence, but whites had not.

Don't make a clown of yourself, General Denikin in 1919 was closer to Moscow than Finns were to St. Petersburg. And his army was more than the whole population of Finland combined together armed with tanks and airplanes (the new stuff back then).
Saying that the almighty finnish army would have tipped the balance of Russian civil war is plain ridiculous.
As I said before 14 foreign nations tried that and failed, what makes the finns special?

[kaia]

Don't make a clown of yourself, General Denikin in 1919 was closer to Moscow than Finns were to St. Petersburg. And his army was more than the whole population of Finland combined together armed with tanks and airplanes (the new stuff back then).
Saying that the almighty finnish army would have tipped the balance of Russian civil war is plain ridiculous.
As I said before 14 foreign nations tried that and failed, what makes the finns special?

Bolshevik government was in St. Petersburgh in 1919, not in Moscow. There was military vacuum between Finland and St. Petersburgh. This is not some nationalistic **** waving from my part and don´t claim that finnish army is almighty, it´s just something i´ve read about.

I´m tired of arguing about this. If you don´t want to believe me that´s your business. Sorry, for upseting your sensitive russian minds with what was meant to be my totally unprovocative writing.

I´m through with this subject.

[Flamming_Python]

While the Finns fought very well during the Winter War and subsequent Continuation War, that fact has little relevance to a 1918 Finnish army on Russian soil. Though they doubtless could have fought well on Finnish land, it is unlikely that they would have had a significant impact when fighting in Russia, where much more powerfull armies like the British, Americans and White army failed. That is all i'm trying to say...

[madpendos]

Exactly. Just because finns fought very good at winter war, doesn't mean they could've beat the red army on Russian soil. Finns were very effective in their woods because they grew up there, and knew locations very good. However, offensive on foreign soil is a completely different matter.

[CPL Trevoga]

I don't think there is enough reliable information info regarding that era, but kaia might have a point. You guys remember Latvian Rifles, who sided with Lenin? They certainly played big part in the Revolution. Their main motivation was prabably independence for Latvia, so it's not far fetched to think
that Lenin promised Finns independence if they did not side with Whites. At the same time I remember that Finns had problem with Finnish bolsheviks themselves. Like I said before, there is not enough truthful info about those times. Too much stuff was white washed.

[Echo300]

Thanks tsunami :)

[Flamming_Python]

Yes you're right.

Unfortunately it's just very hard to find reliable information about anything in the Soviet Union or it's history, including the revolution, as everything seems to be biased towards one side or the other, and there is plenty of false and misleading information.

[LEGEND]

Ungern was not a white general either. He was a sick individual who was interested in creating his own state.

[Flamming_Python]

Ungern was not a white general either. He was a sick individual who was interested in creating his own state.

What is 'white' though? The white army was simply a collection of different groups with different agendas, but for the most part united in their opposition against the red army.

Way to resurrect a 2 year-old thread BTW :)

[LEGEND]

What is 'white' though? The white army was simply a collection of different groups with different agendas, but for the most part united in their opposition against the red army.

Ungern was not allied with other white army groups and was plundering Kolchak's supply routes.


Way to resurrect a 2 year-old thread BTW :)

History is ageless:)

[pacifist]

thats right your geographical genius. just a stones throw, thtas why US forsces crossed the ocean, and fins forces were looking for stones to throw


I know i shouldn't talk about a banned member, but your spelling shows the level of your intelligence.

[Pavel25]

Lavr Kornilov (1870-1918)

[Pavel25]

Michail Drozdovsky (1881-1919)

[Pavel25]

Michail Alexeev (1857-1918)

[Pavel25]

Sergey Markov (1878-1918)

[Dmitriev]

Nice post. Many time I still wonder, What would've happened to Russia is the white army won? How would be history different...

[Ronguild]

Nice post. Many time I still wonder, What would've happened to Russia is the white army won? How would be history different...

I guess a third revolution would have happened .