Five US Marines dead in Fallujah

[Aussie E]

From The Australian newspaper website at 3am local time.

Five US Marines dead in Fallujah
From correspondents in Baghdad
April 08, 2004
FIVE US Marines were killed today by gunfire from within the mosque in the Iraqi city of Fallujah that was under attack from US forces, a Central Command spokesman said.

US marines pressing an offensive Fallujah, west of Baghdad, bombed a central mosque earlier and killed up to 40 insurgents holed up inside, a marine officer in Iraq said.

The bombing came after several hours of small arms and rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) fire from insurgents.

Earlier, The Associated Press reported the military as saying two US marines had been killed in fighting in Fallujah over the past two days.

But it said the marines had not given a full casualty count.

[American Patriot]

Yergh. Sad day.

[Obergefreiter]

Sad, but these losses will only save more later. They went there loooking for a fight and they got it. They know they can not let up now. The Marines have them by the jugular, time to bite just a little harder.

R.I.P.

[Skullknight]

According to military commanders the US only controls 1/4 of Fallujah at the moment. I wonder if retaking full control of the city will require the same effort, and what about other cities that have fallen to insurgents (Kut and Najaf)? I guess we'll see.

[5jumpchump]

Whew looks like these guys are really getting thier asses kicked rofl

http://apnews.myway.com/image/20040407/IRAQ_.sff_MSR108_20040407131210.html?date=20040407&docid=D81Q495O0

[Obergefreiter]

As they (the terrorists) get more and more desperite, I think the fighting will get tougher. This, in a way would be a good sign for US military commanders in the field.

The Marines will loose more guys, but they will make the terrorists pay a dear dear price. Marines---> :bash: <---Terrorists

[HELEX]

Perhaps the other Iraqi clerics are just waiting for Sadrs death to get rid of him and then declare Jihad against the occupation troops because of killing an cleric. :roll:

[Brozozo]

RIP, a sad day. They died a noble death for a noble death. Semper Fi to these Marines, those who have already fallen and those yet to fall.

Going into Iraq was such a stupid action, who are we to just go into somebody's other country and run the show? I know it's messed up over there but it is none of our business...

I mean, if some stranger came into your house, what would you do?

[Maverick77]

Id be glad if the stranger came in to help get rid of a bunch of assholes

[American Patriot]

Going into Iraq was such a stupid action, who are we to just go into somebody's other country and run the show? I know it's messed up over there but it is none of our business...

I mean, if some stranger came into your house, what would you do?

We're just shaping circumstances before crises emerge. Meeting threats before they become dire.

Why can't you let us carry out our global responsibilities, challenge hostile regimes, promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad — and other types of stuff?

Why don't you just accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order like a real man? It is totally necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next. Seriously.

[Obergefreiter]

Perhaps the other Iraqi clerics are just waiting for Sadrs death to get rid of him and then declare Jihad against the occupation troops because of killing an cleric. :roll:

Good then, bring them out tinto the open to fight. Easier to defeat them that way.

[Tane Angle]

I hate to say it, but we shaped the crisis here. Our global responsibility? I don't know who you are, so I won't jump to any conclusions about your age or experience or anything like that, but the US doesn't always have a great track record on global responsibility. I'd love it if we did, but we don't. If we're so responsible, how come 4 million innocent civilians were slaughtered in the Congo since Bush took office? Now it's not his fault that it happened, but it is his fault that it didn't stop. He looked the other way. And we put him in office.

How has our's, or anyone's, security been increased by the war in Iraq? Now I'm not a proponent of leaving Iraq, it's simply not a viable option, but let's call it what it is-a mistake. And one of monumental, even catastrophic proportions.

I commend you for being a patriot. I'd like to consider myself one. Sometimes that requires me to admit that mistakes have been made, by myself, my superiors, even my commander-in-chief. I was a proponent of the war, on the grounds that there were indeed WMD. Of course, I disagreed with the timing of the war, due to weather conditions. Not that my words had any effect on any scale, but maybe it was unpatriotic of me to have so blindly supported the war. Maybe it didn't help my nation and my people-my protectees-to do so.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Mr. Nielsen]

Sad, but these losses will only save more later. They went there loooking for a fight and they got it. They know they can not let up now. The Marines have them by the jugular, time to bite just a little harder.

Maybe so. But on the other hand there is also the risk of aggravating the situation instead of containing it.

The more precise, and the fewer civilian casualties the greater the chances of the iraqis perceiving this as maintaining law and order.

That is, if the force isn't used sufficiently discrimate, more iraqis will be antagonized. Basicly the situation in post-war Iraq seems to be at a critical juncture, where the wrong one will lead to utter chaos in Iraq.

Time to keep heads cool.

[XASA]

Well said Tane.

Like you, I supported the war based on the existence of WMD; however, I thought we should have built a real coalition before going in with just a few loyal allies. If that would have meant going through the UN, I didn't see a problem with that.

One year later, I am disappointed in our political leadership because I feel we have put men and women in harms way without really having an exit strategy. Supporting the troops is now my primary concern. Regardless of the political issues involved, any move that would be detrimental to their safety has to be avoided. When I heard eight of ten Army divisions were involved in the change of command, I realized we don't have much room for error.

Since it would be disasterous for us to leave without securing Iraq, perhaps the time is now right to concede we need the help of other nations with the UN as a broker.

Just a thought. Now I await the flame war that the initials "UN" usually starts. :P

[csqnsas]

Tane Angle,

You Sir are a true American with the wisdom to change the world. For the better!

I am a realist from a country that was lost - The powers that were tried to keep the truth from the people. In the end as we all konw, "You can fool some people all the time, All the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time"(JFK).

Sorry to say , the mighty USA cannot and should not be called upon to police 'all' the world. We should all try to help.

[SerbPVO]

Why are the Iraqis fighting US occupation immidiately labelled as "terrorists". I would call them *rebels*, while some Iraqis I personally know call them "freedom fighters".

[Soulhunter]

It's ridicilous to call the insurgents 'terrorists'! You might not agree with their position, but they are rebels. Terrorists are something else. But it's Bush propaganda to call everyone who's not into their fascist way of thinking a 'terrorist'.

[Soulhunter]

it's too d*mn simplistic to call them terrorist. They maybe a**holes, but they want to defend their country (in their view). You would do the same. The US waged the war on false premises and ignored international advice because Bush wanted to get rid of the guy who wanted to kill his daddy! I pity every poor american soldier who dies on the front line, most of them only about 20 years old! May they rest in peace! But don't blame the insurgents. Blame Bush and his hawks. They're the one repsonsible for this quagmire.

[XASA]

Why are the Iraqis fighting US occupation immidiately labelled as "terrorists". I would call them *rebels*, while some Iraqis I personally know call them "freedom fighters".

Where do you live SerbPVO? The reason I ask is because the terms I am hearing in the US from several media sources are "insurgent" or "milita". The term "terrorist" is usally use in context with a mention of Al Queda or similar organization, or someone from another country fighting in Iraq.

Or are you just trying to make a point on your own since you personally know "some" Iraqis?

[SerbPVO]

Another catchphrases I noticed used a lot is , when they report casualties - "Sunny Triangle" (something like Bermuda Triagle i guess), "Bathist loyalists" , etc.

Tell it like it is.

[XASA]

What are you smoking today soulhunter?

[SerbPVO]

No, someone on this forum called them terrorists.

They seem to me like far from it. So far, they've only attacked military targets.

[Johnnyringo]

"Rebels" yes... "freedom fighters"??? hell no, you should tell those Iraqis you "personally" know to lose their weapons and avoid the guys in MARPAT or they'll become friends you "used" to know.

[Soulhunter]

xasa: nothing, why?

[Haiw]

Why are the Iraqis fighting US occupation immidiately labelled as "terrorists". I would call them *rebels*, while some Iraqis I personally know call them "freedom fighters".

Where do you live SerbPVO? The reason I ask is because the terms I am hearing in the US from several media sources are "insurgent" or "milita". The term "terrorist" is usally use in context with a mention of Al Queda or similar organization, or someone from another country fighting in Iraq.

Or are you just trying to make a point on your own since you personally know "some" Iraqis?
Actually Bush called has made rather generous use of the word terrorists when describing the Iraqis attacking US soldiers.

[HELEX]

"Rebels" yes... "freedom fighters"??? hell no, you should tell those Iraqis you "personally" know to lose their weapons and avoid the guys in MARPAT or they'll become friends you "used" to know.

Hmmmm.... they fight for their freedom to live in an unfree System.... Is that a freedom fight? I personally think every fight against an occupieing force is a freedom fight. They have the right to make their own mistakes and develop themself.

[XASA]

Why are the Iraqis fighting US occupation immidiately labelled as "terrorists". I would call them *rebels*, while some Iraqis I personally know call them "freedom fighters".

Where do you live SerbPVO? The reason I ask is because the terms I am hearing in the US from several media sources are "insurgent" or "milita". The term "terrorist" is usally use in context with a mention of Al Queda or similar organization, or someone from another country fighting in Iraq.

Or are you just trying to make a point on your own since you personally know "some" Iraqis?
Actually Bush called has made rather generous use of the word terrorists when describing the Iraqis attacking US soldiers.

"in context"? Look, Haiw, I'm not here to defend Bush's command of the English language, nor to turn this thread about five dead marines into a flame war. I was commenting on what I have read or seen today in the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Stern, The Sun, Google News Digest, CNN, ABC, CBS and, oh yes, militaryphotos.net.

Having said that, I was wrong for making a personal comment about soulhunter on this thread and will make an attempt to ignore him. ;)

[Haiw]

Arrr bugger all the **** must have clouded my view. Still, Bush is still rather eager to throw every enemy he has in Iraq in the same terrorist-bin.

[American Patriot]

Regardless of what they're called they'll all be dead or captured soon so who cares :lol:

[Haiw]

Regardless of what they're called they'll all be dead or captured soon so who cares :lol:
Didn't a lot of people think that 10 months ago?

[Aussie E]

In my opion, a terroist is someone who uses terror tactics on unarmed civilians to create a political change. There-fore the attack on the UN building, ****e mosques and worshippers as well as reporters were terrorist attacks. Any attacks on armed members of the coalition, be they civilian contractors, military or Iraqi are the work of insurgents. I know it's a fine line and we can argue all day long. Basically if they want to die, be they terrorist or insurgents, I'm sure there are memebers of the coalition willing to help them on there way to heaven.

[Salty Dog]

No, someone on this forum called them terrorists.

They seem to me like far from it. So far, they've only attacked military targets.

right...i forgot about the bombings of hotels where international media was staying. i also forgot about the civilian contractors that were killed and dragged, and hung :cantbeli:

[SerbPVO]

All military targets!

Just like hotels, passenger trains, bridges, tv stations, etc , that were bombed by NATO(read: US and its vassals) in my own country.

[Salty Dog]

All military targets!

Just like hotels, passenger trains, bridges, tv stations, etc , that were bombed by NATO(read: US and its vassals) in my own country.

that's your country. we are talking about iraq. :roll:

[XASA]

All military targets!

Just like hotels, passenger trains, bridges, tv stations, etc , that were bombed by NATO(read: US and its vassals) in my own country.

So you hate the US "and its vassals" Thanks for letting us know what your agenda is. Looking forward to reading more of your trash ;)

[SerbPVO]

Hate is a strong word.

[Salty Dog]

so i guess i made my point.

[Aussie E]

SerbPVO please explian to me how a mosque and repoters are militray targets. I must be to dim-witted to see the relationship between religion, news and military targets.

[Salty Dog]

SerbPVO please explian to me how a mosque and repoters are militray targets. I must be to dim-witted to see the relationship between religion, news and military targets.

a mosque is a military target when insurgents are abusing it and using it as a fortress. then it becomes a military target. but a hotel with international journalists.....that's terrorism.

[Resevoir Hogs]

How did this terrorist or rebel label argument get started. Turn on CNN they're calling them rebels anyways!! (or insurgents)

Everyone here knows the deffinition of what terrorism is.

Just to make it clear I'm agreeing that what Serb is saying is trash.

[California Joe]

You would not remotely believe the hoops that would need to be jumped through all the way up the line to the CINC before we would bomb a religious site like a mosque.

[Resevoir Hogs]

Yes very true Joe

[SerbPVO]

Hehehe...I guess after today's actions, even mosques have become military targets;)


40 Killed as US Bombs Fallujah Mosque
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-wofallu0408,0,1511069.story?coll=ny-homepage-big-pix

[Aussie E]

I wasn't commenting on the US attacking Mosques, what I was alluding to were the car bombings by the terrorist, that attacked the Shi'te mosques and worshipper a few months back. I understand and even approve of attacking enemy combatants where-ever and when-ever. As I posted before, during WWII when sniper's shot from church steples, I don't think there was much hesitation from the people being shot at to return fire.

[BlackRain]

"Rebels" yes... "freedom fighters"??? hell no, you should tell those Iraqis you "personally" know to lose their weapons and avoid the guys in MARPAT or they'll become friends you "used" to know.

Hmmmm.... they fight for their freedom to live in an unfree System.... Is that a freedom fight? I personally think every fight against an occuping force is a freedom fight. They have the right to make their own mistakes and develop themself.

Freedom fighters....What a joke. Were they freedom fighters when they were fighting Sunnis? No, it was not fashionable to call them that.

The USMC is seeking to destroy militiamen loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The al-Sadr force is composed of disgruntled, unemployed religious-Fundamentalist young men. There loyalty is to their cleric and their town and not Iraq.

These al-Mahdi militia men were shooting at marines from the Abdel-Aziz al-Samarrai mosque. What type of a "religious"person uses a religious place as a fighting position? For that reason, these militia men felt the business end of laser guided munitions.

Iraq is a country composed of various religious, tribes, sects, and ethnic backgrounds. If you have studied history you would realize these people have been battling each other for literally centuries.

It is tres facile to say they are battling the evil-occupying-Americans, it exposes the posters bias.

[Resevoir Hogs]

Ya and an Islamic state is not exactly the most free institution there. Which is what I believe these al Sadr motherf&*#s want eventually. Freaking religion I swear.

[SerbPVO]

When you guys calculate everything, the good and the bad after the removal of Saddam's regime from power, without a doubt, Iraq under Sadam was much nicer place than it is right now.

At least he kept all these tribes & factions in check.

[XASA]

When you guys calculate everything, the good and the bad after the removal of Saddam's regime from power, without a doubt, Iraq under Sadam was much nicer place than it is right now.

At least he kept all these tribes & factions in check.
You should be banned for being stupid :cantbeli:

[Resevoir Hogs]

Oh yea of course indiscriminately killing members of a tribe to keep them down is much preferable to targeting rebel fighters themselves.

Of course the situation is **** right now its been only a year. But in the end I would prefer a short period of high violence to end the prolonged violence that we saw under Saddam.

[BlackRain]

When you guys calculate everything, the good and the bad after the removal of Saddam's regime from power, without a doubt, Iraq under Sadam was much nicer place than it is right now.

At least he kept all these tribes & factions in check.

Are you a troll?

If by nicer place under Saddam, you mean state sactioned rape, murder, torture, genocide, and elections with only one person on the ballot. Maybe you have a point.

The coalition is trying install a provisional government to include every ethnic and religious group. Aid workers and money are being provided to make Iraq a better place then it was while getting ambushed by religious fanatics.

We will succeed despite the adversity and limp wristed pantywaists who second guess our intentions.

[Aussie E]

I guess if you used SerbPVO logic, you could say that Stalin, Edi Amin, Hitler and Kim Jung Il kept their tribes and factions in check. I still don't think any country under a dictator is a "nice" place.

[Webley]

Going into Iraq was such a stupid action, who are we to just go into somebody's other country and run the show? I know it's messed up over there but it is none of our business...

I mean, if some stranger came into your house, what would you do?

You think these people are going to love Christians and Jews because we got rid of Saddam? :roll:

There is more to Islamic militancy than Al Qaeda. This Shiite cleric is connected to Hamas and Hezboullah.

Of course they will attack the occupation troops in Iraq. Better to fight these militants on their soil than to wait around for them to attack the West.

[Haiw]

Oh look, our favorite hate-preacher is back. :roll:

[HELEX]

Hallelujah ! :lol: