Ukrainian Camp at Al-Kut... What is going on there?

[fdt]

Is that true that Al-Jazeera TV has shown the deserted Ukrainian camp at Al-Kut? Sadr followers were to take it (or just enter)... as it was... left with quite a bunch of equipment... :( Anyone knows more?

Sorry... wrong forum... but pls treat this as a photos request of the events... :oops:

[American Patriot]

**** that! The Ukranians better hold on to their equipment like they hold on to their balls.

[cut]

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Ukrainian troops withdrew Wednesday from the Iraqi city of al Kut after coalition forces in the area faced fierce fighting from insurgents, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry told CNN.

The area south of Baghdad has come under siege from Shiites loyal to radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.

Ukrainian forces, based near al Kut, had moved in Sunday to help reinforce the mayor's house, a TV station, and a bridge that serves as an important dam, Ukrainian Defense Ministry spokesman Konstantin Khivrenko said.

There were 20 coalition troops inside the mayor's house, Khivrenko said. Those coalition troops, as well as the Ukrainian forces that moved in, faced threats to their lives from the insurgents, he said.

The troops inside the house decided to leave the area, and the Ukrainian troops pulled out as well, Khivrenko said. They are back at their base, about 1.5 kilometers (about 1 mile) from al Kut, he said.

There are about 1,600 Ukrainian troops total in Iraq.



according to the Ukrainian defence ministry "Ukrainian soldiers evacuated a temporary civil administration building in Al Kut, Iraq, after coming under mortar fire from Iraqi insurgents" so not a camp, this is not the only place it has happened.

[fdt]

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Ukrainian troops withdrew Wednesday from the Iraqi city of al Kut after coalition forces in the area faced fierce fighting from insurgents, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry told CNN.

The area south of Baghdad has come under siege from Shiites loyal to radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.

Ukrainian forces, based near al Kut, had moved in Sunday to help reinforce the mayor's house, a TV station, and a bridge that serves as an important dam, Ukrainian Defense Ministry spokesman Konstantin Khivrenko said.

There were 20 coalition troops inside the mayor's house, Khivrenko said. Those coalition troops, as well as the Ukrainian forces that moved in, faced threats to their lives from the insurgents, he said.

The troops inside the house decided to leave the area, and the Ukrainian troops pulled out as well, Khivrenko said. They are back at their base, about 1.5 kilometers (about 1 mile) from al Kut, he said.

There are about 1,600 Ukrainian troops total in Iraq.



according to the Ukrainian defence ministry "Ukrainian soldiers evacuated a temporary civil administration building in Al Kut, Iraq, after coming under mortar fire from Iraqi insurgents" so not a camp, this is not the only place it has happened.that was earlier in the day....

[cut]

in that case I havn't found anything about it, not even on al jazeera.

[UkrainianAmerican]

damn, wtf is going on?

[Wilco]

Seems like fighting is getting a ****load more fierces, a total offensive like the Tet Offensive in '68. Send some Spanish in there, they will hold it, they have revenge in their blood, let them prove that they will give it.

[cut]

chinese whipers or someone misreading the news, I'm sure that wherever fdt heard it from got the wrong end of the stick

[Haiw]

No I remember hearing something about Ukrainians withdrawing as well.

Edit: something I found on a (very credible) Dutch newssite:


In de zuidelijke stad Al-Kut hebben Oekrainse militairen zich na zware gevechten teruggetrokken in hun legerkamp, naar eigen zeggen uit veiligheidsoverwegingen.
In the southern city of Al-Kut Ukrainian soldiers withdrew to their base after heavy fighting, according to them due to security reasons.

[Hullebullen]

From what I heard on the news this night the Ukraine contingent had pulled out of there completly...


...but as it seems all info from Iraq seem to be rather vague at the moment...

[HELEX]

Smells a bit like some kind of "news stop" or something....

[cut]

No I remember hearing something about Ukrainians withdrawing as well.

Edit: something I found on a (very credible) Dutch newssite:


In de zuidelijke stad Al-Kut hebben Oekrainse militairen zich na zware gevechten teruggetrokken in hun legerkamp, naar eigen zeggen uit veiligheidsoverwegingen.
In the southern city of Al-Kut Ukrainian soldiers withdrew to their base after heavy fighting, according to them due to security reasons.

If they had withdrawn from their main base then yes but this was "a temporary civil administration building" in al-Kut they withdrew from the city not their base. Base meaning the place where they reside

[Brozozo]

Nevertheless, they left the very weapons that will fuel insurgency in the future. They should of at least destroyed them quickly.

[RuSoKaR]

damn, wtf is going on?

Looks like New war in Iraq started :cantbeli:

mms://video.rfn.ru/rtr-vesti/30403.asf (can't Save as)
that is a nice video about wtf is going on there.

There is a rebellion all over the country :(

[Felix]

Don't compare this to the TET offensive in 1968. They are completely different in size, structure, purpose, etc. etc....its a very stupid ****ing comment.

[HELEX]

Those american Soldiers in the Video were looking like doind a retreat...

[MVSpartan117]

Those american Soldiers in the Video were looking like doind a retreat...

Like you would know.... :roll:

[RuSoKaR]

Those american Soldiers in the Video were looking like doind a retreat...
In the video they said,

US marines were trying to get in the center of the city called El-Falydsha (spelling?) But almost from every house they met resistance, and they called for air support

[HELEX]

Like you would know....

When Soldiers moving in a direction, and the covering Soldiers point their rifles in the opposite direction.... looks that like an attack or similar? :cantbeli:

Your turn....

[Felix]

Some of the comments on this board make me sick. "Doing a retreat?" How the **** would you know? one group of men running in one direction looks very much like the same thing in an opposite direction. Thnx to all who corrected him.

[HELEX]

Some of the comments on this board make me sick. "Doing a retreat?" How the f*** would you know? one group of men running in one direction looks very much like the same thing in an opposite direction. Thnx to all who corrected him.

When Soldiers moving in a direction, and the covering Soldiers point their rifles in the opposite direction.... looks that like an attack or similar?

Go see the video. :roll:

[Celareon]

I'm sure HELEX was not trying to insinuate anything other than the fact that in his opinion, the troops seem to be making an organized withdrawal ;)

If they are moving backwards, its for a good reason, would you not run back to cover if you attempted advancing, yet met heavy resistance from entrenched enemy insurgents?

I hope this situation is contained soon, although I doubt it will. The Sunni insurgents are taking full advantage of the chaos created by Sadr's "militia"

[Salty Dog]

Seems like fighting is getting a ****load more fierces, a total offensive like the Tet Offensive in '68. Send some Spanish in there, they will hold it, they have revenge in their blood, let them prove that they will give it.

they probably wouldn't want to.

[HELEX]

Seems like fighting is getting a ****load more fierces, a total offensive like the Tet Offensive in '68. Send some Spanish in there, they will hold it, they have revenge in their blood, let them prove that they will give it.

Revenge for what? The islamists that did the Bombing in Spain were from Marocco... :cantbeli:

[talib_killa34]

Spain's already sending more soldiers home ahead of the July 1 deadline.

Well, I can understand, those troops have been there long enough.

Send 'em home to be with their families, it's only fair.

:|

[foxtrot023]

Spain's already sending more soldiers home ahead of the July 1 deadline.

Well, I can understand, those troops have been there long enough.

Send 'em home to be with their families, it's only fair.

:|

They were part of a rotation. Those that left were replaced by legionnaries. In the TV they were saying that Ukranian soldiers evacuated Kut.

Regards

[cut]

In the TV they were saying that Ukranian soldiers evacuated Kut.


They evacuated Kut but not their base.

[RuSoKaR]

http://www-download.1tv.ru/video/2004_04/0704042104.asf


and this is an organized war, Iraqi are not just fighting they are very well organized.

Also the people who are fighting coalition are those who where support Coalition one year ago against Saddam's rule.

[Marmot1]

Wait couple of days they will run out of food and water and they would calm down..

[American Patriot]

http://www-download.1tv.ru/video/2004_04/0704042104.asf


and this is an organized war, Iraqi are not just fighting they are very well organized.

Also the people who are fighting coalition are those who where support Coalition one year ago against Saddam's rule.

What makes that old Russian guy a military expert? Probably because he can drink a whole bottle of vodka rofl

[RuSoKaR]

What makes that old Russian guy a military expert? Probably because he can drink a whole bottle of vodka rofl

ah?

Should I start to post anti-american posts?
I didn't post them so far but here is a video http://www-download.1tv.ru/video/2004_04/0704041502.asf

[ibstolidude]

Take it elsewhere - BOTH of you

This is not the place for it.

Let's not have a repeat of the crap from last weeks.

[Celareon]

Rusokar, don’t let him discourage you, i have enjoyed the videos you've been posting immensely.

oh and American patriot, That "old Russian guy" was probably doing military analysis when you were still in the womb :bash:

[Ekie]

Tet Offensive? Look more like a mini Battle of the Bulge to me.

[foxtrot023]

In the TV they were saying that Ukranian soldiers evacuated Kut.


They evacuated Kut but not their base.

Huh?

Isn`t that what I said? ;)

[RuSoKaR]

Oh btw Rebels are establishing check points in some cities.

And about Ukranians they were holding their possitions for 2 days, then they realised that they better get their asses out of there.

btw does anyoe have any info about how many solders died today?

about 105 Iraqi dead, and 2 US chopper were shut down anything else?

[talib_killa34]

Spain's already sending more soldiers home ahead of the July 1 deadline.

Well, I can understand, those troops have been there long enough.

Send 'em home to be with their families, it's only fair.

:|

They were part of a rotation. Those that left were replaced by legionnaries. In the TV they were saying that Ukranian soldiers evacuated Kut.

Regards


That's cool. July 1st deadline is still on though right?

[wholagun]

ok excuse my ignorance, im not in the mlitary or anything so don't flame me for asking this question. Keep in mind im asking, not implying.

How is it that the US, the biggest and most powerful army has to retreat from a city facing opposition from RPGs and AKs? What about say like a real war? How would that turn out, say Cold War? If US can't hold a city who's opposition is just people without any armour or air support how could they go into a war with any country with good equipment? (Im only asking not implying)

What makes sense to me, is that they left Fallujah because its not worth losing your life for, and its better to fight another day. Is that why they left or did they leave cause they could'nt stand up to resistacne?

Same goes for other soldiers from the International coalition, like the Ukranians leaving, did they leave cause they didn't want to die or cause they didn't have the power to fight the rebels?

[RuSoKaR]

How is it that the US, the biggest and most powerful army has to retreat from a city facing opposition from RPGs and AKs? What about say like a real war? How would that turn out, say Cold War? If US can't hold a city who's opposition is just people without any armour or air support how could they go into a war with any country with good equipment? (Im only asking not implying)

Well it's a guella warfare, They sure don't want to rush the city like Russian leaders ordered during the first war :(

Plus how can you know where are the rebels or a regualar civilians?

and those people just want to take situation in their hands, mybe they are just tiered of the coalition policy in Iraq.

[ibstolidude]

ok excuse my ignorance, im not in the mlitary or anything so don't flame me for asking this question. Keep in mind im asking, not implying.

How is it that the US, the biggest and most powerful army has to retreat from a city facing opposition from RPGs and AKs?

None of us are there so the men that have the real answers will not be answering -
it is my understanding (and the understanding from the russian video) that they withdrew to use close air support.

Regardless what the name implies YOU DO NOT want to be that close if you can help it. Also it is much much much much much easier to defend an urban area than to agress against one, unless the aggressors start knocking **** down.

[Brozozo]

ok excuse my ignorance, im not in the mlitary or anything so don't flame me for asking this question. Keep in mind im asking, not implying.

How is it that the US, the biggest and most powerful army has to retreat from a city facing opposition from RPGs and AKs? What about say like a real war? How would that turn out, say Cold War? If US can't hold a city who's opposition is just people without any armour or air support how could they go into a war with any country with good equipment? (Im only asking not implying)

What makes sense to me, is that they left Fallujah because its not worth losing your life for, and its better to fight another day. Is that why they left or did they leave cause they could'nt stand up to resistacne?

Same goes for other soldiers from the International coalition, like the Ukranians leaving, did they leave cause they didn't want to die or cause they didn't have the power to fight the rebels?

Let me be the first to flame you. You really are stupid, arn't you? I don't think there should be any doubt that the Americans can handle a bunch of **** for brains isurgents with AKs and RPGs. The only reason it looks like the Americans are losing, retreating, unable to hold their own is because of their (the Americans) reluctantness to use heavy handed and more brutal tactics such as leveling everything in sight with the help of Spectre gunships, Super Cobras, howitzers etc. Despite what most left-wing hippie ****s and college campuse leaflets tell you, the Americans do go out of their way to avoid major civilian casualties, the insurgents couldn't care less about them, as demonstrated by the recent killings of dozens of civilians working for the coalition. If the US didn't give a **** about collateral damage you could be sure a battery of 155s would open up on anything that moves. Fighting guerrillas often takes a different approach than fighting another regular amy, and many armies arn't extensively trained in guerilla warfare tactics.

Also, going in full of piss and vinegar and cocky could lead to another Mogadishu, the US has learned their lesson from that event...

Sorry if I came across harshy, I just find it hard to believe that you question any army's (especially the American army's) ability to fight a bunch of rag-tag camel-jockeys.

[talib_killa34]

Well said.

[RuSoKaR]

Brozozo has a point US army is a best trained fighting with a particular army, where sometime they do shoot everything that moves, their ground troops cooperate with the air support, They are really organized to fight against army not armed civilians.

[wholagun]

ok excuse my ignorance, im not in the mlitary or anything so don't flame me for asking this question. Keep in mind im asking, not implying. I guess its not excused in this instance??

How is it that the US, the biggest and most powerful army has to retreat from a city facing opposition from RPGs and AKs (I said they were the biggest and best) ? What about say like a real war? How would that turn out, say Cold War? If US can't hold a city who's opposition is just people without any armour or air support how could they go into a war with any country with good equipment? (Im only asking not implying)
What makes sense to me, is that they left Fallujah because its not worth losing your life for, and its better to fight another day. Is that why they left or did they leave cause they could'nt stand up to resistacne?

Same goes for other soldiers from the International coalition, like the Ukranians leaving, did they leave cause they didn't want to die or cause they didn't have the power to fight the rebels?

Let me be the first to flame you. You really are stupid, arn't you? (How do you figure that? Cause im not in the military and never had a day's training, nor do I have many friends that are in the military which could explain to me how things work on the grouend) this is becomming the problem with this site, you ask one or two questions and you get a hacked to death by the person replying, not everyone is in the military on this forum I don't think there should be any doubt that the Americans can handle a bunch of **** for brains isurgents with AKs and RPGs. The only reason it looks like the Americans are losing, retreating, unable to hold their own is because of their (the Americans) reluctantness to use heavy handed and more brutal tactics such as leveling everything in sight with the help of Spectre gunships, Super Cobras, howitzers etc. Despite what most left-wing hippie ****s and college campuse leaflets tell you, the Americans do go out of their way to avoid major civilian casualties, the insurgents couldn't care less about them, as demonstrated by the recent killings of dozens of civilians working for the coalition. If the US didn't give a **** about collateral damage you could be sure a battery of 155s would open up on anything that moves. Fighting guerrillas often takes a different approach than fighting another regular amy, and many armies arn't extensively trained in guerilla warfare tactics.

Also, going in full of piss and vinegar and cocky could lead to another Mogadishu, the US has learned their lesson from that event...

Sorry if I came across harshy, I just find it hard to believe that you question any army's (especially the American army's) ability to fight a bunch of rag-tag camel-jockeys.

[talib_killa34]

Brozozo has a point Us army is a best trained fighting with a particular army, where sometime they do shoot everything that moves, their ground troops cooperate with the air support, They are really organized to fight against army not armed civilians.

Asymmetrical warfare is what they call it. They fought alot of that all last year I believe.

They are prepared for it just fine, thanks.

[Vintendo]

Guys, I clicked on this to read about Ukranians.

[foxtrot023]

Urban warfare is the hardest type of fighting for all armies. Too many places for the bad guys to hide, and even if you take your gloves off, you create rubble for the enemy to hide in (as in Stalingrad, or more recently in Chechenya).


That's cool. July 1st deadline is still on though right?

It looks that way, unless the PM is given a good excuse to remove his foot from his mouth (as everybody acknoledges that he spoke too early). Some political analysts are already saying that the troops will remain.

Regards

[talib_killa34]

Urban warfare is the hardest type of fighting for all armies. Too many places for the bad guys to hide, and even if you take your gloves off, you create rubble for the enemy to hide in (as in Stalingrad, or more recently in Chechenya).


That's cool. July 1st deadline is still on though right?

It looks that way, unless the PM is given a good excuse to remove his foot from his mouth (as everybody acknoledges that he spoke too early). Some political analysts are already saying that the troops will remain.

Regards

Cool, thanks!

[talib_killa34]

Guys, I clicked on this to read about Ukranians.


True.

Sorry.

:oops:

[Brozozo]

ok excuse my ignorance, im not in the mlitary or anything so don't flame me for asking this question. Keep in mind im asking, not implying. I guess its not excused in this instance??

How is it that the US, the biggest and most powerful army has to retreat from a city facing opposition from RPGs and AKs (I said they were the biggest and best) ? What about say like a real war? How would that turn out, say Cold War? If US can't hold a city who's opposition is just people without any armour or air support how could they go into a war with any country with good equipment? (Im only asking not implying)
What makes sense to me, is that they left Fallujah because its not worth losing your life for, and its better to fight another day. Is that why they left or did they leave cause they could'nt stand up to resistacne?

Same goes for other soldiers from the International coalition, like the Ukranians leaving, did they leave cause they didn't want to die or cause they didn't have the power to fight the rebels?

Let me be the first to flame you. You really are stupid, arn't you? (How do you figure that? Cause im not in the military and never had a day's training, nor do I have many friends that are in the military which could explain to me how things work on the grouend) this is becomming the problem with this site, you ask one or two questions and you get a hacked to death by the person replying, not everyone is in the military on this forum I don't think there should be any doubt that the Americans can handle a bunch of **** for brains isurgents with AKs and RPGs. The only reason it looks like the Americans are losing, retreating, unable to hold their own is because of their (the Americans) reluctantness to use heavy handed and more brutal tactics such as leveling everything in sight with the help of Spectre gunships, Super Cobras, howitzers etc. Despite what most left-wing hippie ****s and college campuse leaflets tell you, the Americans do go out of their way to avoid major civilian casualties, the insurgents couldn't care less about them, as demonstrated by the recent killings of dozens of civilians working for the coalition. If the US didn't give a **** about collateral damage you could be sure a battery of 155s would open up on anything that moves. Fighting guerrillas often takes a different approach than fighting another regular amy, and many armies arn't extensively trained in guerilla warfare tactics.

Also, going in full of piss and vinegar and cocky could lead to another Mogadishu, the US has learned their lesson from that event...

Sorry if I came across harshy, I just find it hard to believe that you question any army's (especially the American army's) ability to fight a bunch of rag-tag camel-jockeys.

Understandable, I just didn't like the way you worded your post, even though you said you're just asking not implying, you REALLY made it sound like you're mocking the US Army. No hard feelings. :D

[Wilco]

Don't compare this to the TET offensive in 1968. They are completely different in size, structure, purpose, etc. etc....its a very stupid f*** comment.

Woh woh woh, I may be new here, but I don't take crap from anyone. You obviously didn't need to use prophane language in this post and your others. You obviously took that comment a little too serious, yes I know the Tet Offensive was completely different, but it was during a cool down phase that they launched it, just like here. So you need to either stop taking people's comments to friggin seriously or leave the boards. From being here I learned never to take anyone's comments serious, and even if they are, I ignore them, which I suggest you do before you land yourself in a world of ****.

[American Patriot]

Everytime I see those terrorist mother****ers on TV dancing around it makes me wish I was there.

I think it's what the military calls a target-rich environment. :lol:

[Russian Texan]

Everytime I see those terrorist f*** on TV dancing around it makes me wish I was there.

I think it's what the military calls a target-rich environment. :lol:

So why you are not there?

[fdt]

Napieta sytuacja utrzymuje sie takze w Al-Kut. Ukrainscy zolnierze pelniacy tam sluzbe zgrupowali sie w bazie Delta. Pózna noca z bazy Babilon w rejon Al-Kut wyslane zostalo wsparcie w postaci smiglowców oraz pododdzialów zmechanizowanych.

Tensions remain also in Al-Kut. Ukrainian soldiers serving there, have gathered in the Delta base. Late at night from the Babylon base were sent backups; the choppers and mechanized infantry units.

http://info.onet.pl/898922,12,item.html (article is in Polish)

[Sergei]

The Ukrainian contingent in Iraq was on condition of providing security for local population, not to fight that population for Uncle Sam. Soon they will be withdrawing completely. Supreme Rada of Ukraine, today, on Thursday, will try to pass a decreee to get our boys out of there.

[Marmot1]

The Ukrainian contingent in Iraq was on condition of providing security for local population, not to fight that population for Uncle Sam. Soon they will be withdrawing completely. Supreme Rada of Ukraine, today, on Thursday, will try to pass a decreee to get our boys out of there.
You mean run away when **** started... :lol:

[Kingpin]

No, this means that if Kuchma want to lick uncle Sam's ass he can go to Iraq on his own. People's support of decision to send troops in Iraq always was weak in Ukraine as i understand. Now it is just convinient reason to pull them out.

[mack pl]

The Ukrainian contingent in Iraq was on condition of providing security for local population, not to fight that population for Uncle Sam. Soon they will be withdrawing completely. Supreme Rada of Ukraine, today, on Thursday, will try to pass a decreee to get our boys out of there.They dont fight against some civil people, but against f***n extremist.Its only my opinion,and I hope no more brave Ukrainian soldiers will die.But i hope they will kick some terrorists ass.Regards.

[Sergei]

The Ukrainian contingent in Iraq was on condition of providing security for local population, not to fight that population for Uncle Sam. Soon they will be withdrawing completely. Supreme Rada of Ukraine, today, on Thursday, will try to pass a decreee to get our boys out of there.
You mean run away when **** started... :lol:
No, dummy, save peoples lives when no bloodshed is necessary.

[Sergei]

No, this means that if Kuchma want to lick uncle Sam's ass he can go to Iraq on his own. People's support of decision to send troops in Iraq always was weak in Ukraine as i understand. Now it is just convinient reason to pull them out.

My words exactly. :hug:

[Russian Texan]

The Ukrainian contingent in Iraq was on condition of providing security for local population, not to fight that population for Uncle Sam. Soon they will be withdrawing completely. Supreme Rada of Ukraine, today, on Thursday, will try to pass a decreee to get our boys out of there.
You mean run away when **** started... :lol:

No, he means that Ukranians have mind of their own and refuse to die for Uncle Sams reasons, whatever they are...

Sending troops to Iraq was an "ass-licking" move by the Ukranian government in order to secure more financial aid/loans from the US.
Common population never supported the idea of having its soldiers fight for someone elses interests.

You know, marmot1, what I find extremely entertaining and ironic: the fact all that ass - kissing and flag waving still doesn't make it any easier for your countryman getting visas to enter the US and those who do come here - get fingerprinted like criminals...
Hurray to "valuable ally".
Darling, when eill you come to grips with an idea that Poland and its troops will be used/obused and thrown away like a toilet paper...
The harsh reality and cynicism of the situation is that US gov don't give a damn about Poland or polish troops in Iraq, it's a simple matter of having US soldier die or someone elses, like salvadorian, ukranian or polish soldier die....

[fdt]

Posted by Black Rain at the General Discussion.

Shia militia takes city as Ukrainians flee

Ukrainian troops surrendered the eastern city of Kut to Shia militants yesterday, abandoning civilian officials, including 13 Britons who escaped under fire, coalition sources said.

A South African security contractor was killed in the fighting and his body is said to have been left in the city.

The retreat of the Ukrainian contingent, against the orders of the US military commander in Iraq, has privately infuriated coalition leaders.

The capture of Kut, a provincial capital of about 380,000 people, marks the biggest victory scored by the radical Shia cleric, Moqtada al-Sadr, since he ordered his Mahdi army militia to launch an uprising at the weekend.

Fighting was so fierce - with about 50 rocket propelled grenades fired at the coalition compound - that US air support was called in to help. But this failed to prevent the defenders' retreat.

Ukraine's defence ministry said: "At the request of the Americans, and to preserve the life of our military, the commander of the Ukrainian contingent decided to evacuate the civil administration staff and Ukrainian troops from Kut."

A spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), the civilian arm of the occupation government, denied the troops had abandoned civilian officials.

However, well-placed coalition sources said the Ukrainians had left the civilians to fend for themselves, protected only by lightly armed private security contractors. They added that the troops had pulled out against the orders of the US commander, General Ricardo Sanchez.

British officials are reviewing security procedures, and are considering whether to deploy staff only where they are protected by military contingents deemed reliable.

The fighting in Kut, a predominantly Shia city on the river Tigris, began at about 3pm on Tuesday, when the CPA compound came under fire. The attackers were held back by private guards from British and American security firms. A 60-man Ukrainian detachment was also at the base, but its contribution was said to be unclear.

Three hours later, gunmen attacked a building housing five security personnel from another company, named as Hart. One of them, a South African, was killed.

At dawn yesterday, the situation worsened. The main body of the Ukrainian battalion, based in a camp across the Tigris from the CPA compound, made several attempts to reach the civilians, but was beaten back by the militia.

Coalition sources said the Ukrainian contingent in the CPA compound was ordered to leave about 6.30am to join the rest of the battalion for the retreat from Kut.

Coalition sources said the civilian officials made their own way out of the city in a convoy protected only by private guards. Four Hart security men escaped by stealing a car, but are thought to have had to leave the body of their comrade behind.

Thirteen Britons were among those who escaped. Five were officials working for the CPA, and eight were security contractors with the British firm, Control Risks Group.

The Kut fiasco marked the first time coalition forces have abandoned their positions.

Until the radical cleric Sadr launched his revolt on Saturday, Kut had been a relatively quiet spot where attacks on coalition forces or civilians were rare.

Sadr's militia have proved to be a far stronger military force than the coalition had believed. By last night, they were effectively in control of Kut and the town of Kufa. Sadr, meanwhile, was surrounded by his followers at a shrine in the holy city of Najaf.

His insurrection has spread to at least four other cities, including the Shia slums of eastern Baghdad.

The coalition had viewed Sadr, 30, as an inexperienced, impulsive leader. But he has shown the ability to launch effective military strikes in several places at once.

More here: http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/93/375/12444_Iraq.html

[Russian Texan]

So all out of sudden "Pravda" becomes a reliable source?
I do recall its credibility being questioned multiple times here, so why the change of heart?

[HELEX]

Pravda is at least more reliable than US sources... :roll:

[He219]

Pravda is at least more reliable than US sources... :roll:
HELX, why don't you STFU!

:bash:

[HELEX]

HELX, why don't you STFU!

Because every time I post something serious someone else starts flaming at me.

[UkrainianAmerican]

HELX, why don't you STFU!

Because every time I post something serious someone else starts flaming at me.
Thats cuz your level of "seriousness" leaves a lot to be desired.
As for Rukosars Video, it sounds like Al jazeera translated into russian.

[fdt]

So all out of sudden "Pravda" becomes a reliable source?
I do recall its credibility being questioned multiple times here, so why the change of heart?They were first after Al-Jazeera... Today morning no reliable news media have even mentioned this s*hit... but it was happening... Better such source than nothing....

[VISTREL]

As being Ukrainian myself, I can only guess that soldiers did not want to kill Iraqis...they don't consider them enemy for any purposes, and that's why did not want to kill them, even though irakis had weapons...

Getting troops from Ukraine to Iraq - is a political game of Kuchma...CIA found out that Kuchma sold some Anti-Aircraft vehicles "Kolchuga" to Iraq and then they pressed on Kuchma...so he wanted to kiss ass, and send out boys there...

[American Patriot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda

There are two Pravdas actually :lol:

The Pravda Online one speaks for itself.. http://english.pravda.ru/

[UkrainianAmerican]

As being Ukrainian myself, I can only guess that soldiers did not want to kill Iraqis...they don't consider them enemy for any purposes, and that's why did not want to kill them, even though irakis had weapons...

Getting troops from Ukraine to Iraq - is a political game of Kuchma...CIA found out that Kuchma sold some Anti-Aircraft vehicles "Kolchuga" to Iraq and then they pressed on Kuchma...so he wanted to kiss ass, and send out boys there...
First of all why did the prick sell those antiaircraft systems/
Second of all if he is going to kiss ass, might as well do it the right way, instead of half-measures.

[Maverick77]

They lost one man and then withdrew.

This is just going to cause more Casualties for whoever has to retake the ****in place.

[5jumpchump]

Those american Soldiers in the Video were looking like doind a retreat...

I be running too . I think that footage is right before they blew a hole in the wall at the compound . It's a good idea to stay clear of a hellfire missle ya know :roll:

[Russian Texan]

As being Ukrainian myself, I can only guess that soldiers did not want to kill Iraqis...they don't consider them enemy for any purposes, and that's why did not want to kill them, even though irakis had weapons...

Getting troops from Ukraine to Iraq - is a political game of Kuchma...CIA found out that Kuchma sold some Anti-Aircraft vehicles "Kolchuga" to Iraq and then they pressed on Kuchma...so he wanted to kiss ass, and send out boys there...
First of all why did the prick sell those antiaircraft systems/
Second of all if he is going to kiss ass, might as well do it the right way, instead of half-measures.

Who the f*** are you to pass any judgement on actions of those under fire?
Moreover, what the f*** do you know about alleged "sale" of "Kol'chuga" to Iraq?
Do you even know what "kol'chuga" is, what does it do and how it could be integrated into Iraq's airdefense?
If you really intersted in the issue, why don't you write a letter to Kuchma and ask him the same question yourself?

RussianAmerican, I am more interested in what Ukranians think about the issue than what someone from Bronx/Queens/Brighton does...

This board definitely should have "adults/people over 21 only" section.

[Brozozo]

Pravda is at least more reliable than US sources... :roll:

Hah!

[UkrainianAmerican]

As being Ukrainian myself, I can only guess that soldiers did not want to kill Iraqis...they don't consider them enemy for any purposes, and that's why did not want to kill them, even though irakis had weapons...

Getting troops from Ukraine to Iraq - is a political game of Kuchma...CIA found out that Kuchma sold some Anti-Aircraft vehicles "Kolchuga" to Iraq and then they pressed on Kuchma...so he wanted to kiss ass, and send out boys there...
First of all why did the prick sell those antiaircraft systems/
Second of all if he is going to kiss ass, might as well do it the right way, instead of half-measures.

Who the f*** are you to pass any judgement on actions of those under fire?

No one. But apparantly the PMCs stayed, and the 60-man battalion packed up. Hence, the assumption that they didn't WANT to fight, as opposed to COULDN'T without suffering major casualties.


Moreover, what the f*** do you know about alleged "sale" of "Kol'chuga" to Iraq?

Do you even know what "kol'chuga" is, what does it do and how it could be integrated into Iraq's airdefense?

Only that what VYSTREL posted.


If you really intersted in the issue, why don't you write a letter to Kuchma and ask him the same question yourself?

A person who was a president for 10 years, probably wont bother with PR.


RussianAmerican, I am more interested in what Ukranians think about the issue than what someone from Bronx/Queens/Brighton does...

First of All, Brighton is not a borough. Second of all if you are more interested in what Ukranians have to say about it, don't read my posts. Pretty simple.


This board definitely should have "adults/people over 21 only" section.
So create your own board.

[mack pl]

Calm down boys :|

[5jumpchump]

ok excuse my ignorance, im not in the mlitary or anything so don't flame me for asking this question. Keep in mind im asking, not implying.

How is it that the US, the biggest and most powerful army has to retreat from a city facing opposition from RPGs and AKs? What about say like a real war? How would that turn out, say Cold War? If US can't hold a city who's opposition is just people without any armour or air support how could they go into a war with any country with good equipment? (Im only asking not implying)

What makes sense to me, is that they left Fallujah because its not worth losing your life for, and its better to fight another day. Is that why they left or did they leave cause they could'nt stand up to resistance?

Same goes for other soldiers from the International coalition, like the Ukrainians leaving, did they leave cause they didn't want to die or cause they didn't have the power to fight the rebels?

It's just a guess but I think the footage of the US soldiers weren't retreating but moving to find better cover . IT shows the machineguns blowing up the walls and upper portion of the Mosque compound . Yesterday I heard that we punched a hole in the compound wall with a hellfire missile . Perhaps they were in the area and needed better cover from the blast , then go in and raid the compound afterwards .
As far as the biggest baldest Army getting ambushed by every window with small arms fire and RPG's , well there are a few ways to deal with that . For one we could just set up artillery miles away and level the whole place and follow up with carpet bombing and not even have to deal with that stuff . But that's not the way to win the hearts and minds of the civilians caught in the crossfire . We are a conventional Army fighting guerilla tactics . We have convoys , they have beat up jeeps with bombs in them . We have larger numbers , they have an ambush in every window . I still think we are doing well though . I'll start getting nervous when we loose a thousand soldiers a day .

[RuSoKaR]

Guys at this time most of the civilian population is fighting against coalition, after the arrested of their religeous leader, and coalition is planning to establish democratic government over there :cantbeli:

mms://video.rfn.ru/rtr-vesti/30422.as (can't save As)

a 220 kg bomb was dropped on the Mosque more then 40 civilians were killed.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Guys at this time most of the civilian population is fighting against coalition, after the arrested of their religeous leader, and coalition is planning to establish democratic government over there :cantbeli:

mms://video.rfn.ru/rtr-vesti/30422.as (can't save As)

a 220 kg bomb was dropped on the Mosque more then 40 civilians were killed.
I believe this report was retracted.
Only a was SURROUNDING the mosque was damaged, and practically no casualties.

[StukaJr]

Wow... That's not a very kind commentary from neither the reporter nor the relatively hot girl at the studio (last link - you gotta add "f" at the end of the link for the file to play)... It's good footage of the events, but the commentary paints too bleak of the picture for the coalition - must be, because the reporter is observing things from the streets and Iraqi perspective...

[5jumpchump]

Yes , we didn't bomb the mosque itself , just the surrounding compound walls to get our guys in . The reports of 40 civilians killed was pure bull**** . It was later stated that the 40 that were killed were the insurgents .
What in gods name is this **** about anyhow ? I mean here we are hooking them up with better water facilities , electricity , food and aid and these assholes are shooting at us . Why ? Are they afraid of losing power ? Are they trying to topple democracy and make it an Islamic state ? WTF ?

[American Patriot]

I wouldn't hit that Russian chick with a 10 foot pole.

[Vintendo]

As being Ukrainian myself, I can only guess that soldiers did not want to kill Iraqis...they don't consider them enemy for any purposes, and that's why did not want to kill them, even though irakis had weapons...

Getting troops from Ukraine to Iraq - is a political game of Kuchma...CIA found out that Kuchma sold some Anti-Aircraft vehicles "Kolchuga" to Iraq and then they pressed on Kuchma...so he wanted to kiss ass, and send out boys there...

I'm not judging why the troops pulled out, but not wanting to kill the Iraqis sounds like a rediculous reason. If a bunch of people were trying to kill me, I wouldn't care who they were! I'd fight back.
My guess is that the Ukranians were caught completely off guard and decided to retreat and regroup until the situation is more clear to them. If you are unsure of enemy strength it is the most appropriate move, instead of staying and risk being overrun.
But I'm quite shocked that they left the civilians they were protecting.

[RuSoKaR]

My guess is that the Ukranians were caught completely off guard and decided to retreat and regroup until the situation is more clear to them. If you are unsure of enemy strength it is the most appropriate move, instead of staying and risk being overrun.
But I'm quite shocked that they left the civilians they were protecting.

And still they holded their positions for 2 days?

And why are you shocked that they left the civilians?

Civilians are the ones who are protesting against coalition, and they are the ones who want the coalition to get out of there.

[Sergei]

There was an interview with Ukrainian commander of forces in Iraq and he said there was no order to hold on to the designated targets, plus ukrainian contingent build good relationships with local populace and they didn't want to squander that by shooting civilians and thus enraging the public against ukrainians.
My personal opinion is that Ukrainian don't belong there and should be withdrawn soon. Let somebody else from the coalition of the willing to do the looting and raping of Iraqi nation.

[UkrainianAmerican]

There was an interview with Ukrainian commander of forces in Iraq and he said there was no order to hold on to the designated targets, plus ukrainian contingent build good relationships with local populace and they didn't want to squander that by shooting civilians and thus enraging the public against ukrainians.
My personal opinion is that Ukrainian don't belong there and should be withdrawn soon. Let somebody else from the coalition of the willing to do the looting and raping of Iraqi nation.
:cantbeli:

[Marmot1]

OK al-Kut retaken END of TOPIC...

[UkrainianAmerican]

OK al-Kut retaken END of TOPIC...
Link?

[foxtrot023]

In Spain news programs are also saying that US troops have retaken Kut.

Regards

[UkrainianAmerican]

YAY! woot

[RuSoKaR]

One Ukranian soldier died in explosion of the BTR. :|

and Ukraninan people and government are debating if they still should have their soldiers in the Iraq.
mms://video.rfn.ru/rtr-vesti/30443.asf <--- video

And as for the reason for the Ukranian soldier to leave that city, was that they are not there to fight they are not soldiers they are peacekeeprs. :roll:

[American Patriot]

Kuchma will keep his country's troops there.

[RuSoKaR]

Kuchma will keep his country's troops there.

It might cost him.

[obd]

ROFMAO HAHAHAHHAH LOLOLOL. Did I just see HELEX say Pravda was more reliable than US news.....wow now that just beats it all. If anyone ever needs evidence of what an anti American reject HELEX is just quote that....LOL

Pravda isnt even a free press for crying out loud. Putin alread showed what happens to free press who actually print free ideas by raiding several offices years back and shutting them down and arresting its publishers.......Hence there is only the illusion of freedom in Russian press corps.... They are free to play the party line and thats about it.............

[RuSoKaR]

Pravda isnt even a free press for crying out loud. Putin alread showed what happens to free press who actually print free ideas by raiding several offices years back and shutting them down and arresting its publishers.......Hence there is only the illusion of freedom in Russian press corps.... They are free to play the party line and thats about it.............

Link? :D

I am kida missed that one.

[Bulkowski]

ROFMAO HAHAHAHHAH LOLOLOL. Did I just see HELEX say Pravda was more reliable than US news.....wow now that just beats it all. If anyone ever needs evidence of what an anti American reject HELEX is just quote that....LOLHe is right, it's not coincedence that all the news channels play the same thing...
"He who controls the media controls the mind"