Treatment and conditions of the mentally ill in america

[8thidpathfinderpower]

In the news, is yet another school shooting. And the resulting media spin will likely add fire to the already touchy debate on gun control, and spark a new round of laws being passed to deal with the resulting panic created by the recent round of school shootings. But this thread is not about that,but rather about a look at the term "mental illness" and the people who commited these horrific crimes. In the recent school shooting in Pennsylvania, it was mentioned in a story ran in USA today, the state of mind into the shooter involved in the Amish school shooting. The article was a pretty indepth look at the reasons a rather ordinary man would snap and commit the crimes he planned for. Were these just excuses? Or were these a look into a very tortured mind. In the latter, there may be an explanation as to why he commited the horrorific acts of a few days ago. Mental illness is a very real and very complex problem for doctors and law enforcement in this country. It is difficult to spot,difficult to treat and most of all, sometimes deadly in its results. The people who were the closest to the shooter should have paid more attention to the signs, had they been aware of what to look for. And that is the problem...the lack of understanding and lack of attention to a person who in many ways leaves signs before he/she "snaps". I am going to leave alot here open for discussion, and hopefully shed some light on a ever increasing problem for modren society. And, hopefully inspire some discussion into why we need no more laws on guncontrol, but more training and education funding in interventions for mental illness related crimes.

[XShipRider]

A couple of decades ago the state mental hospital system was
essentially gutted by two pieces of legislation. One had to do
with the rights of the patient even though many could not tie
their own shoes. This piece was shoved down the throats of
Americans because of the "perceived rights abuses" by the
aggregate states' hospitals declaring persons incompetent
thereby instituting many against "their will." Consequently,
many, many persons were released into the populace at large
without so much as continuous monitoring being conducted.

The other piece, which followed shortly after the first, was
a severe cut in spending for these now near-empty hospitals.
I want to say this happened during the Reagan years but
do not remember for certain.

I'm looking for the links to both but they're unrelated in the
Google sense.

[Durandal]

I love how they are calling him a "shooter" when in reality, he was a "murderer".

Subtle anti-gun propaganda.

[mi35d]

I'm waiting for the anti-gun crowd to start the "Ban & confiscate" machine up again.

Will certainly be in full swing here in NY state once Herr Spitzer takes over.

[Kaplanr]

A couple of decades ago the state mental hospital system was
essentially gutted by two pieces of legislation. One had to do
with the rights of the patient even though many could not tie
their own shoes. This piece was shoved down the throats of
Americans because of the "perceived rights abuses" by the
aggregate states' hospitals declaring persons incompetent
thereby instituting many against "their will." Consequently,
many, many persons were released into the populace at large
without so much as continuous monitoring being conducted.

The other piece, which followed shortly after the first, was
a severe cut in spending for these now near-empty hospitals.
I want to say this happened during the Reagan years but
do not remember for certain.

I'm looking for the links to both but they're unrelated in the
Google sense.


What you leave out is also the deplorable state of many patients in those hospitals. Regardless of their intellectual and emotional capabilities they have a right not to live in filth and squalor, and to have the medical and aid staffs held accountable for poor care and criminal behavior when it occurs.

Yes the funding cuts occurred during the Reagan years; the money was re-packaged as block-grants. The used were more local than previoulsy allocated. That means that county and regional allocations that could have continued to fund many institutions weren't available. It also coincided with a movement to allow the higher functioning to live in assisted living or with families.

Don't make the mistake of lumping the mentally ill like this guy and Congressman Foley with the truly disabled.

[Hollis]

Yes the funding cuts occurred during the Reagan years; the money was re-packaged as block-grants. The used were more local than previoulsy allocated. That means that county and regional allocations that could have continued to fund many institutions weren't available. It also coincided with a movement to allow the higher functioning to live in assisted living or with families.
.

your right, Part of Reagans trickle down or get the locals to pay for it. Closed a lot of programs for people who needed help. The people in the programs just moved to new accomodations, under bridges or if they were lucky to a "community home".

Even programs for criminal offenders were cut or greatly reduced.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I have to disagree with two assertions made so far - the first, that this is an "ever increasing problem" , and the second, that mental patients live in filth and squalor.

I don't think you'll find any evidence that mental illness is any more prevalent now than it ever was. We're just stuck with it, you know, like herpes.

State-run hospitals have never been the pinnacle of luxury. I'm sure that ours are on par with state run facilities in any industrialized nation. Yes, people wallow in their own excreta, but that's because they sh*t themselves regularly. They fling poo. They are generally disagreeable, difficult, and hard to manage. You want a nice pleasant mental hospital, use the Adolf Hitler method, just kill off the patients - it works wonders :)

As to what we can do about it - that's hard to say. As our society has drifted left, it has decided -as they have done with so many other issues- that the rights of the group don't supersede the rights of the individual. If the crazy guy wants to be on the street and shout at people, we have no right to stop him...unless he breaks the law or is a danger to himself. I can't point my finger at any particular program or administration and lay blame, those were actions that arose as a result of attitudes present in our society.

[Hollis]

2 Sheds, some people don't realize some people choose to live under a bridge. My wife was working for a state run correctional treatment facility at the time. The Fed Cuts greatly effected services to that population. It has taken time for other programs to develop and for communites to adjust to the assisted living centers along with corresponding funding.

I don't think mental illness is anymore of a issue today as it was back then. The other aspect is what it takes to get a person in to the system. There is no majic ball to determine who will need to be insitutionalized until they commit a act that is serious enough to get them committed. Funding is a also a contributor to the relucance of the Judge to issue commitment orders.

In one population of ****** offenders they could have, upto, hundreds of vicitims before they were brought into the system.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

2 Sheds, some people don't realize some people choose to live under a bridge.

Well, you know I guess it's a question of priorities and of values. On one hand, we can have what we've got now - it takes a lot for the state to declare you nuts, and you go to a crummy state hospital. Or we could make it so it only takes the opinions of 3 others to get any 4th person committed, and put them in a fancy hospital. Or run them over with a train. Or...soylent green. Mmmmm soylent green. Grgrghrhhhh..

[Happy]

if his own wife had no idea this man was a nut case, there is no way any government program could have done anything at all. probably the only way would have been if the little girls he molested 20 years ago, if true, would have turned him in at the time.

My town has a number of mental health treatment facilities, and a few of my Friends have worked there. they all have horror stories, not about the government or the treatment of the mentally ill, but about the mentally ill. One of the greatest problems is the mentally ill have the right to go off their medication, and in some cases, they go off the meds, then go back to being violent nut cases, after they attack the workers, they get put back on meds, and they calm down. then a month later, they demand to go off meds, and the whole cycle starts again. My roomate took care of a very strong, sly, cunning kid for over a year, and every month his parents demanded the meds be reduced, and every month he would attack someone. All the people I know who worked with the mentally ill left because of these type of issues.

[Hunterhr]

With hindsight, damn near anything can make you look crazy or disturbed.

[XShipRider]

What you leave out is also the deplorable state of many patients in those hospitals. Regardless of their intellectual and emotional capabilities they have a right not to live in filth and squalor, and to have the medical and aid staffs held accountable for poor care and criminal behavior when it occurs.

Yes the funding cuts occurred during the Reagan years; the money was re-packaged as block-grants. The used were more local than previoulsy allocated. That means that county and regional allocations that could have continued to fund many institutions weren't available. It also coincided with a movement to allow the higher functioning to live in assisted living or with families.

Don't make the mistake of lumping the mentally ill like this guy and Congressman Foley with the truly disabled.

I was forced to visit said step-cousin (notice how I distance myself
from him) once in the state run hospital in Traverse City, Michigan.
I was quite young but very much remember the conditions. The
hospital was pristine but the screams, moans and yelling I heard
almost from the moment I walked in the door had me sticking very
close to my step-grandmother. It was the first time I had ever
seen anyone restrained in a hospital bed. Many of the patients
had escorts who, it seemed, never left the patients side. I was
to learn much later this same hospital had several wings depending
on the severity of the illness involved.

I think you misunderstood my original message. The "rights abuses"
I mentioned were in the context that persons were committed by
the state in those days with little more than a hearing. That's what
went by the wayside. Thus the streets filled with people doing as
2_Sheds pointed out.

Also, I wasn't blaming Reagan but thought it had happened (changed)
during his tenure.

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Thanks everyone for the responses. They were very provocative. But I have to disagree with some of the statements made so far. Alot more can be done to prevent types of behavior, such as the events that have just happend in Pennsylvania. Although mental illness is a very real disorder, and great strides have been done in treatment and diagnoses, more still needs to be done for training of doctors,clergy,law enforcement, and the general public in how to spot signs that a person might commit a crime,like what happend in Pennsylvania.(quite often, a person will leave signs that there is something wrong)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Thanks everyone for the responses. They were very provocative. But I have to disagree with some of the statements made so far. Alot more can be done to prevent types of behavior, such as the events that have just happend in Pennsylvania. Although mental illness is a very real disorder, and great strides have been done in treatment and diagnoses, more still needs to be done for training of doctors,clergy,law enforcement, and the general public in how to spot signs that a person might commit a crime,like what happend in Pennsylvania.(quite often, a person will leave signs that there is something wrong)

Uh, have you seen modern society? Take a walk through a mall and spot the crazy ones. Is it the daddy-doesnt-love-me-enough Goths, or the I'm-just-such-an-individual-im-gonna-get-tattooed-just-like-all-my-friends idiots, or the wanna-be gang members with the baby pacifiers in their mouths, or the actual gang members, or the ones tarting up their 5 year old daughters like a *** object, or the middle aged guy strategically sitting in front of Victoria's Secret (that would be me :) ) - I mean - there is quite simply no way to predict everything all the time. If somebody is completely out there, chances are they're in an institution already. But crazy does not = stupid. In fact some crazy folks are quite intelligent, function at a high level, and do their very best to hide their tendencies from all around them. We all do our best to accommodate people's eccentricities, not make fun of people who choose to be different - we'd turn into some godawful police state if we locked up anybody who seemed nuts. Most of California, if my last 3 weeks has been any indication. p-)

[8thidpathfinderpower]

Uh, have you seen modern society? Take a walk through a mall and spot the crazy ones. Is it the daddy-doesnt-love-me-enough Goths, or the I'm-just-such-an-individual-im-gonna-get-tattooed-just-like-all-my-friends idiots, or the wanna-be gang members with the baby pacifiers in their mouths, or the actual gang members, or the ones tarting up their 5 year old daughters like a *** object, or the middle aged guy strategically sitting in front of Victoria's Secret (that would be me :) ) - I mean - there is quite simply no way to predict everything all the time. If somebody is completely out there, chances are they're in an institution already. But crazy does not = stupid. In fact some crazy folks are quite intelligent, function at a high level, and do their very best to hide their tendencies from all around them. We all do our best to accommodate people's eccentricities, not make fun of people who choose to be different - we'd turn into some godawful police state if we locked up anybody who seemed nuts. Most of California, if my last 3 weeks has been any indication. p-)
Interesting statement...although true, you cannot predict behavior at all times, there are signs that people leave(sometimes very subtle) that point to the preverbial "something big" is gonna happen. More needs to be done in educating the public in how to spot problems before they begin, and getting help to those that need it before they do something dangerous.

[Hollis]

Interesting aspect of ****** offenders, pedophiles, are that they are generally educated and intelligent. There are low functioning people who lack or never learned any social skills. Usually the low functioning people are the ones that are "pointed" at, generally they are harmless and only a menace to themselves, (as in when they forget to pay the cashier).

I think the other problem with "mental illness" is that there is a big social stigma attach to it. Not all mental illness are socially bad and can be easily treated. People can live very "normal" and productive lives. The problem with the social stigma, is that people do not seek treatment.

Also isn't California the only state wide mental institution. Maybe only the sane people get locked up.